School me on building an exterior wall..... - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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School me on building an exterior wall.....

I am converting our attached garage into a bedroom/utility room/hall way.

I have interior walls down pretty well. But I am to the point where I am ready to take the garage door down and put up a wall.

What I am going with. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Treated wood across the bottom, concrete nails, 2x4s for framing and supports, Metal bracing treated plywood for outside of wall, house wrap, One window, white siding, white trim, Insulation inside wall, sheetrock, etc..


What do you think?
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 08:03 PM
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What do you mean by metal bracing? In my opinion if you are using metal studs that's a big mistake. Don't forget to add the necessary electrical boxes. If you don't put in 1 or 2 you'll kick yourself later. Double studs along window sides. Check load to determine header width and thickness for over window. Take into account surface thicknesses so that exterior and interior walls turn out flush. possibly a vapor barrier on the inside. Looks good otherwise. Remember it's way cheaper to overbuild then to underbuild and have to redo it.
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamp View Post
Check load to determine header width and thickness for over window.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, his goal of closing in an existing garage door opening means his structural header is already in place. Also, if he's lucky, like the majority of garages, the door exists on a non-load bearing wall so they could utilize the extra vertical space that not needing a header allowed for.

Forgive me if I misunderstood and he's tearing the whole existing wall out.

Heya Josh,

I think you've got a solid idea of what you need to do. The only general thing I noticed you missing is foundation flashing. I would also suggest using roofing felt between the PT shoe and concrete and lastly I'd drill some anchors for lags to retain the shoe instead of using concrete nails, tapcons or a Ramset to anchor. Other than that, it's a super-straightforward process, as far as structure goes and it's pretty hard to get it wrong.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 08:43 PM
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Hi,

Don't forget to do some type of "Water Proofing" at the Bottom (Sole) Plate And around your Window.

If it was me i would "Lay a Bead" when anchoring bottom plate,
Again right before Plywood Sheeting,
and again when putting down the Bottom Flashing for the Siding.

It sounds like alot, But you don't want any water infiltration at the Bottom of your "Exterior Wall".

Windows use a different Product,
I would Ask a "Window Pro" for Instructions about that application.

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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamp View Post
What do you mean by metal bracing? In my opinion if you are using metal studs that's a big mistake. Don't forget to add the necessary electrical boxes. If you don't put in 1 or 2 you'll kick yourself later. Double studs along window sides. Check load to determine header width and thickness for over window. Take into account surface thicknesses so that exterior and interior walls turn out flush. possibly a vapor barrier on the inside. Looks good otherwise. Remember it's way cheaper to overbuild then to underbuild and have to redo it.
Swamp
I defiantly dont want to go over this again and a firm believer on overkill is better.

I had not planned on putting an electrical box in because the side wall have them but you may be right there I might kick myself later if I dont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwim View Post
Unless I'm misunderstanding, his goal of closing in an existing garage door opening means his structural header is already in place. Also, if he's lucky, like the majority of garages, the door exists on a non-load bearing wall so they could utilize the extra vertical space that not needing a header allowed for.

Forgive me if I misunderstood and he's tearing the whole existing wall out.

Heya Josh,

I think you've got a solid idea of what you need to do. The only general thing I noticed you missing is foundation flashing. I would also suggest using roofing felt between the PT shoe and concrete and lastly I'd drill some anchors for lags to retain the shoe instead of using concrete nails, tapcons or a Ramset to anchor. Other than that, it's a super-straightforward process, as far as structure goes and it's pretty hard to get it wrong.
This is where I think I need to most help is preparing the bottom PT wood.

Foundation Flashing: http://www.masonrysystems.org/images...splay/11_d.png

??


Drill anchors for lags?? Can you explain more?


Quote:
Originally Posted by White Dragon View Post
Hi,

Don't forget to do some type of "Water Proofing" at the Bottom (Sole) Plate And around your Window.

If it was me i would "Lay a Bead" when anchoring bottom plate,
Again right before Plywood Sheeting,
and again when putting down the Bottom Flashing for the Siding.

It sounds like alot, But you don't want any water infiltration at the Bottom of your "Exterior Wall".

Windows use a different Product,
I would Ask a "Window Pro" for Instructions about that application.

Dragon
Water proofing.. Like rubber liquid seal?
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 09:04 PM
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And if possible,make sure the old driveway is pitching away from the new wall. As mentioned before,you don't want water finding it's way under your new wall.Good luck

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dirtdigger View Post
And if possible,make sure the old driveway is pitching away from the new wall. As mentioned before,you don't want water finding it's way under your new wall.Good luck
Yes it does.

I don't have current pictures but these aren't old.


Inside:



Out:

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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Saltlife View Post
That image is a perfect example of foundation flashing. It's a multi-layered solution designed to prevent moisture, termites and other undesirables from entering or wicking into the construction of your wall. Without it, you're apt to suffer problems from the very start with high humidity, creeping water lines and insects.


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Originally Posted by Saltlife View Post
Drill anchors for lags?? Can you explain more?
When you're pouring a foundation, you sink L bolts into the concrete to fasten your shoes to. When you're installing a wall on a concrete foundation that wasn't designed for it, you start at a disadvantage, in regards to pull and sheer strength where the wall meets the concrete. Concrete nails don't do very good at holding shoes and sill plates in place. They break the concrete apart on the way in so they're already at a disadvantage, they rust and they sometimes do more harm than good. Tapcons and ramset devices, while better, still suffer some of the same disadvantages. Lag sleeves or anchors are made of a malleable metal that allows you something like a helicoil for concrete. You drill the concrete, insert a sleeve and then you can use a full sized lag bolt to fasten your wall to the concrete. The act of threading the lag bolt in expands the sleeve giving you a much better bond between the wall and the foundation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltlife View Post
Water proofing.. Like rubber liquid seal?
Construction adhesive, like Liquid Nails Heavy Duty adhesive. Apply two straight strips on either edge of the mating surface of the shoe and then squiggle a fat line in between.

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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 09:45 PM
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Well, Depending on your "Detail" it could be a "Roofing, Gutter & Flashing" type product.
It comes in a Caulk Tube type dispenser to be used in a Caulking Gun.

If the Detail that you have "Linked" in your response is "Accurate" for your application you could do as described
in my 1st post to you.
(It would go Under the Flashing)

I like the product described because it Adheres well and when set it provides a Very Long lasting and solid Water Proof Barrier.
I have had to disassemble things on Homes where this product was used, What a Pain it was cutting that stuff out.
We do get Heavy Rain Events down here during Monsoon Season and this stuff work very well.

Be careful tho' it can get real messy real quick and can muck up a Finish Surface in a heartbeat.
Use Tape to protect where you don't want it to be seen, and Yes this includes your Exterior Concrete Slab.

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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 09:47 PM Thread Starter
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Kind of like these?

yda9XIGH9Uk
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Dragon View Post
Well, Depending on your "Detail" it could be a "Roofing, Gutter & Flashing" type product.
It comes in a Caulk Tube type dispenser to be used in a Caulking Gun.

If the Detail that you have "Linked" in your response is "Accurate" for your application you could do as described
in my 1st post to you.
(It would go Under the Flashing)

I like the product described because it Adheres well and when set it provides a Very Long lasting and solid Water Proof Barrier.
I have had to disassemble things on Homes where this product was used, What a Pain it was cutting that stuff out.
We do get Heavy Rain Events down here during Monsoon Season and this stuff work very well.

Be careful tho' it can get real messy real quick and can muck up a Finish Surface in a heartbeat.
Use Tape to protect where you don't want it to be seen, and Yes this includes your Exterior Concrete Slab.

Dragon
Excellent will definitely be getting Construction adhesive then.
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwim View Post
That image is a perfect example of foundation flashing. It's a multi-layered solution designed to prevent moisture, termites and other undesirables from entering or wicking into the construction of your wall. Without it, you're apt to suffer problems from the very start with high humidity, creeping water lines and insects.




When you're pouring a foundation, you sink L bolts into the concrete to fasten your shoes to. When you're installing a wall on a concrete foundation that wasn't designed for it, you start at a disadvantage, in regards to pull and sheer strength where the wall meets the concrete. Concrete nails don't do very good at holding shoes and sill plates in place. They break the concrete apart on the way in so they're already at a disadvantage, they rust and they sometimes do more harm than good. Tapcons and ramset devices, while better, still suffer some of the same disadvantages. Lag sleeves or anchors are made of a malleable metal that allows you something like a helicoil for concrete. You drill the concrete, insert a sleeve and then you can use a full sized lag bolt to fasten your wall to the concrete. The act of threading the lag bolt in expands the sleeve giving you a much better bond between the wall and the foundation.



Construction adhesive, like Liquid Nails Heavy Duty adhesive. Apply two straight strips on either edge of the mating surface of the shoe and then squiggle a fat line in between.
While i Do Agree with Most of this Post,
When it comes to using "Liquid Nail" as a "Waterproofing" product, I can not Disagree Enough.... NO NO NO Don't Do That!!

I know that you guys don't know me from "Adams House Cat",
but I have worked in the General Construction industry for Many years and have seen & dealt with the "Miss Application" of Liquid Nail.
Don't get this Wrong on Your Own Home, it's a Great Adhesive but it is Not a Waterproofing product.

You can stop at Any Jobsite and Ask the Superintendent about this, they'll tell you the same story.

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What is the recommended adhesive?
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 10:16 PM
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Any jobsite superintendent will tell you that for a water or vapor barrier between the two surfaces, you should use a product designed for the job which isn't applied with a caulk gun at all. The liquid nails is used as an adhesive, not as a waterproofing agent. If you're using a caulking material of any kind against the wood to block water, you've already lost the battle by the time it comes into contact with any moisture.

Liquid nails works perfectly fine for it's intended use in bonding two construction materials together. Proper flashing combined with any waterproofing membrane will keep any moisture from penetrating the dry space.

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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwim View Post
Any jobsite superintendent will tell you that for a water or vapor barrier between the two surfaces, you should use a product designed for the job which isn't applied with a caulk gun at all. The liquid nails is used as an adhesive, not as a waterproofing agent. If you're using a caulking material of any kind against the wood to block water, you've already lost the battle by the time it comes into contact with any moisture.

Liquid nails works perfectly fine for it's intended use in bonding two construction materials together. Proper flashing combined with any waterproofing membrane will keep any moisture from penetrating the dry space.
Cool,
Spoken like a man with a background in General Construction.
If you folks there use a "Dry Fit" method and it works, Right On.
We don't deal with Wet & Freezing conditions out here Just Wet & Hot.

To me, the Main Idea was to address the future possible sill plate Water Intrusion for a Bronco Brother who is tackling a DYI Improvement
on what i would imagine to be a "Tight Budget" due to Expectant Children.

However he chooses to proceed, i am fairly certain the potential water issue will now be addressed.

Dragon

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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 11:02 PM
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All looks good to me. You said you were using 2x4's. Are all the garage walls 2x4? I'm assuming yes. If they are 2x6, you may want to follow suit, for insulation purposes. And if that is a bedroom wall, you may want to anyway. 2x4=r15 2x6=r21 Not a real big issue, but something to consider.
Butyl sealant under the green board is fine.

EDIT: I studied the pics a lil better It looks like the walls are 2x4, and like around here, that's standard. It's probably more trouble than it's worth to furr everything out. Is it all insulated?

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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 11:10 PM
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Another option is a row of cinder blocks as a base with lag bolts set in the mortar. No real need for treated plywood, exterior grade will do. One thing I always do with treated lumber is add preservative to the cut ends.
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 09:19 AM
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When you get your insulation get the sound deadeneding type, it help keep noise out, use 3/4 drywall also it helpers insulate. I like using screws rather than nails, less flew and possibility of wind working stuff loose over time.
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 09:34 AM
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OH I almost forgot, run your return ducks in the empty cavities on the interior walls, no need for duct just pan it in and pull air fron the joist space and cut the header to pull air from that area. Looks like two 6" supplies would easily take care of the area, place them above to windows just forward of the window about 12" in. A damper vent will adjust flow at the air louvre for winter/summer adjustments. Heat you need less/ cool you need more CFM, take that into an 8/8 duct as a feed back to your plenum box on your supply on your air handler, the return should be sized 1/3 more square area than your return as air is easier to push than pull, an 8/12 duct will handle that. Outlets should be every foot for code and run a separate cucuit for lighting so if the breaker snaps your not fumbling in the dark to find your way to the panel.
Insulate your duct BTW it will act as a radiator and absorb heat and cold air, also will sweat like a glass of ice water on a humid day.
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-14-2017, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
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Excellent guys! Thank you for the great info here. I feel a lot more comfortable tackeling this project. Going to get materials today. I will update later.

I blew in insulation down the walls and in the attic



Also installed Two vents. Garage space is 26x12

Made a drawing to show the Mrs before starting (Approval)



Two vents and damper from the furnace in the garage. I put a Vent in the new bedroom where the big garage door is being replaced and I am adding a window. Another on the other end in front of the exterior door going outside from the new utility room.



I pulled the vents 6" from the wall on the ceiling.
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