Can anyone tell me what caused this damage? - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-19-2012, 02:59 AM Thread Starter
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Bronco Info: 88 Bronco 351W 9" lift M/T 39.5X18s
Can anyone tell me what caused this damage?

I took my 88 Bronco 351/c6 to a repair shop in Lexington Ky(Powers Transmissions). Supposedly they do engine work according to the ad in phone book. When the temp outside was really cold I would get a slight lifter tic for a few minutes. I keep the Bronco perfect so wanted to get it fixed. Shop told me it needed lifters, I told them to go ahead and do it. When I came back to pick the Bronco up, it was at full op temp but was ticking and worse than before when it was cold.
They told me to bring it back Mon(was friday at 5). I drove off and it got really loud. Pulled in to another shop and had them look at it. They pulled the heads and found one of the lifters had been chewed to pieces and spit metal everywhere plus scored the lifter bore.
Im trying to figure out what caused the damage. They did not replace the cam(and until getting on here, didnt realize you had to when changing lifters). I would expect the shop should know that. Is that what caused the damage? Any help would be appreciated. Its now an expensive lawsuit thats bleeding me.Hopefully the pics will show when I post this they arent showing in preview
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...type=3&theater

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Last edited by spikemagnus; 12-19-2012 at 02:59 AM. Reason: Pics arent showing
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-19-2012, 05:39 AM
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Perhaps the original problem was the cam rather than the lifters. In any case you need both now and you have a motor that needs to be flushed out real good or even tore down to get the metal partials cleaned out. There it's lots of talk on the forums about new oils being inadequate for older flat tappet cams.

Carl

The wife left a note on the fridge... "It's not working, I can't take it anymore! Gone to stay with my Mother"
I opened the fridge, the light came on and the beer was cold........
What the hell is she talking about?
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-19-2012, 06:58 AM
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I have gotten away with not just replacing lifters on a few small block chevys. That looks to be 1: your old lifters messed up your cam, 2: your cam caused your first lifters to go bad. (underliing oil supply issue?) 3: assembled with no/wrong assembley lube. 4: improper break in (i have heard both sides that you need to brake them in and that you don't. I follow cam brake in prosedure to be safe), 4: to big valve springs/ too tight surfing brake in.

1993 Bronco 6" suspension lift, 3" body lift, 36 12.5 16.5 Goodyear RTIIs (the wifes truck)

1994 f250 powerstroke Dana 60 6" lift 37 12.5 16.5 Goodyear MT (my truck)

Last edited by Robhowardiii; 12-19-2012 at 06:59 AM. Reason: typo
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-19-2012, 11:26 AM
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By the way, nice Bronco mate.

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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-19-2012, 11:47 AM
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It would take a GOOD machinist to say for sure, but it looks like no assembly lube on the face of the cam lobe. It appears that the cam lobe is still angled (as it should be), and that the lifter was rotating (as it should) for a little while. But the cam lobe was eating into the lifter's face instead of sliding on an oil film between them.

I suspect a lawsuit will cost you at least triple what an engine will, and you KNOW the engine wasn't perfect before, so cut your losses, and move on. Good used engines CAN be found in junkyards for $300-800, and you CAN install one by yourself if you read, research, & prep.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-19-2012, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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Im already a year in on the lawsuit actually. There is more to it than just the lifter damage. Engine was torn down and metal had destroyed it. Evidently shavings scratched some surfaces deeply enough where they couldnt be resurfaced(this came from the shop that caused the damage). The engine wasnt an old junker in it. It was spotless and ran perfect. Slight lifter tick at warm up when below freezing only. They also broke the intake, and tabs off distributor. They jb welded the intake and spray painted it thinking I wouldnt notice. When negotiations broke down with owner and he said "sue me", I said I was coming to tow truck. Got there and parts were thrown in parking lot and body damage all over Bronco. He refused mediation twice so suing was all that remained to do. I just dont see how one lifter got ground down so deeply and no damage to the others. Also happened in less than 5 miles.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-19-2012, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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Bronco Info: 88 Bronco 351W 9" lift M/T 39.5X18s
Thanks man!
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-19-2012, 02:41 PM
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ive seen that happen when the valves are not adjusted correctly.

The car does'nt make the man,the man makes the car.



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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-19-2012, 06:52 PM
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he damaged the body too?

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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-19-2012, 09:45 PM
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That is what I read, he can't do that man.... That ain't cool.

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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-19-2012, 10:18 PM
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If it were my rig I would have givin the owner a molitove coctail at @ 11.00 pm and made sure it went through a window. Okay the engine damge was bad enough but to do the body damage, no f@#$%ng way!!

1995 F-250 4x4 eclb Stock 351w e4od my toy
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-19-2012, 10:47 PM
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you can get him in the pocket.. If he or his Tech are ASE certified, if you can prove and have documented everything, I was told you could have them "investegated" by "ASE" again, so I have been told never done it or seen it done.... I ran auto shops for years and when we "F*^$ED"up... we ate the cost of repairs. Any shop with morals would do the same thing.. I would submit a claim with anyone who will listen.. BBB, CARR, anybody hes is associated with... if you want to be a bit risky.. contact the local parts suppliers (orielly or also known as first call, pioner parts, ccap, the zone, exxcell, ect in the area) and ask them if they supply said parts and tell them that the shop is blaming the parts and untill they provide the supplier you are forced to include them all, this happened to a shop I worked for when I first got into auto shops.. yea it'll get attention real quick when he cant get parts. But it may bite you back.

you seem to be taking the high road on this and I give you props for that... I wish I could say I would do the same... mines old beatup and grumpy... but I dont drive her becouse its just a ride... Its a FSB... Dents give caractor but dents from so called professionals.... yea I agree with the moltove coktail idea...

When in doubt... use more duct tape...
1984 with a ecently rebuilt 351W, comp. cam, Holly carb and intake, 3in suspension lift, sitting on 35's
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-20-2012, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by convcit View Post
yea I agree with the moltove coktail idea...
Does your username indicate that you've tried that before?





BTW
"Molotov"
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-21-2012, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
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Bronco Info: 88 Bronco 351W 9" lift M/T 39.5X18s
Convcit, good info. I went the way of the BBB from day 1 but shop refused mediation. I wondered about ASE getting involved. Im going to look into that. I dont understand why he didnt just turn it in to his insurance company but he is just being an ahole about it.
I would have preferred to handle this myself but Ive been in trouble many times and it costs alot more to defend yourself than it does to sue another person. Found that out the hard way, plus jail sucks! Thanks to everyone that posted!
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-23-2012, 01:04 AM
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Bronco Info: 1984 with a 351W, HEI Dist, Hedman headers, Holly carb, C6, 3in suspension lift, 35in Falken tires.
if hes a small shop he probly only carries a rider policy which will cover the vehicles during the test drives... i know here in Harris county that is the only policy alot of the small shops have and theres no "requirement" to keep more than that other then to CYA... this is the only decent info I found for ASE.. although there were no complaint dept contacts..

https://www.ase.com/About-ASE/Contact-Us.aspx

When in doubt... use more duct tape...
1984 with a ecently rebuilt 351W, comp. cam, Holly carb and intake, 3in suspension lift, sitting on 35's
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-23-2012, 02:21 AM
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Bronco Info: 82 bronco 408w 4" lift 35's, 88 bronco 351w all stock on 31s
if a lifter goes bad that ruins the cam too.. once a cam lobe and lifter break in together, they are together for life!

i've seen cams go flat from:
improper break-in procedure
horrible valve adjustment.

but in this case, changing only the lifter was the mistake. should have changed cam and lifters together. sounds like the mechanic is a complete moron. good luck.

-Ryan

Check out my youtube page. Many bronco videos.
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-23-2012, 02:34 AM
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that's horrible! what ever happened to good customer service!?
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-23-2012, 07:16 AM
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1st mistake was taking it to a shop to have a slight tick at cold start up repaired.

It could have been improper oil weight or crappy oil filter.

But if it messed up the lifter bore your going to need a new engine now.

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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-24-2012, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
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Bronco Info: 88 Bronco 351W 9" lift M/T 39.5X18s
Yeh the engine is fubar. Luckily its a shop that has multiple locations in my town. Pretty good sized outfit. I looked at ASE site as well and didnt see any complaint links so I sent them an email asking if they offer help in situations like this. What is the best, most detailed manual for the correct procedure on installing new lifters?
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-24-2012, 11:45 PM
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Probably a Ford service manual. Then no-one can say its the wrong procedure when its coming straight from the engines OEM.

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