Ford Bronco Hard start after sitting ? Also exhaust question - Page 4 - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #61 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 01:55 PM
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Yo,
Use a T15 torx bit to remove the cover and inspect internals for burns, loose solder joints and leaky capacitor. By JOWENS

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post #62 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godzilla View Post
So I was wondering. Could I connect the air tube in right before the cat. Or should I just get a new cat because it's the wrong one.
Yo G,
According to Bassani;

Place air tube in front of cat in y. Pic of Bassani by racerx
Hopefully others here will confirm this.

Air Injection (AIR), Secondary Air Injection Overview "...And for the fuel that wasn't burned in the combustion chamber, we need extra airflow pumped into the exhaust system. This air with the heat of the exhaust creates further break down of HC, CO, and Nox into CO2, H2O, and N2. The catalytic converter can accept all of the airflow without fear of over heating during cruise. We need hot exhaust gasses to help complete combustion and converter operation. Air is pumped into the converter, but will dump to the atmosphere after several minutes to prevent overheating the converter. The converter is cooled by air passing under the vehicle..."
Source: by Ryan M

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Last edited by miesk5; 02-08-2017 at 02:04 PM. Reason: Addee better pic
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post #63 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you so much miesk5

I will try to get that air tube connected when it warms up.

The new black motorcraft ICM arrived today. Now I'm just waiting for the artic silver to arrive.

I will get the torx bit from a local advanced auto tonight or tomorrow.

I will pull the computer this weekend and take a peek luckily I live on campus and I do not need to drive anywhere because a lot of stuff is in walking distance.

Again a big thank you to miesk5.

I will post back what I find.
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post #64 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 08:09 PM Thread Starter
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FOUND A ISSUE!!!!!! AND ERRATIC RPM"S FIXED

SO this weekend I drove it from school and back to my parents house where my all my tools are. There I replaced the ICM with a black motorcraft one. The fixed the crazy RPM's while cranking but it still hard started. So I decided to pull the ECM after opening it up I FOUND A REALLY BAD CAP. One of the legs where corroded off with some black stuff and there was a wet looking circle on the borde. So I went ahead and ordered a brand new one with my calibration code. Let's hope this fixes this stupid hardstart been chasing this for 6 years. Also I bet it will idle wayyyy smoother. Also thinking about it more I was smelling kind of a "Hot computer smell whenever it idled rough and hard started". I will post back when its fixed just to confirm it.
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post #65 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 08:19 PM
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Glad you found it! I bet it works more gooder with the new ECM.

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MADE America Great Again!!!!
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post #66 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks man, Ya I'm pretty sure the ECM was the issue with the hard starting I'm excited to put in the new one and see how it feels.
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post #67 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 09:44 PM
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Thanks man, Ya I'm pretty sure the ECM was the issue with the hard starting I'm excited to put in the new one and see how it feels.
BikerPepe is probably going to need a PCM, maybe you can PM him and let him know of your PCM source.
He is battling a problem, here's his thread:
Dreaded fuel pump won't stop w/key on - issue on the '95

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post #68 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
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Sure thing ill give him a PM. But for everyone else who is reading this thread and might need a PCM. I went to advanced auto and ordered a reman from A1 Cardone. It was the only one I could find other than a ford rebuilt that was 600$.
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post #69 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 11:25 PM
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@godzilla - Sorry, I missed that he already looked at RockAuto, so he has found a source for one (also a reman from A-1).

"The simplest solution is usually the best solution" - Occam's Razor

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post #70 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quick Question

Hey guys should I put some dielectric grease on the pins of the new ECM ? Or should I just leave it alone.
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post #71 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 12:47 AM
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Any contact lubricant would work, there is no high voltage, so arcing is not a concern, but you really want to insure that no water gets to the internal connectors, so put a little of that lubricant along the edges of the ECM socket too.

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post #72 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mikey350 View Post
Any contact lubricant would work, there is no high voltage, so arcing is not a concern, but you really want to insure that no water gets to the internal connectors, so put a little of that lubricant along the edges of the ECM socket too.
I agree w/ Mikey on this,
I got the "Ford Electric Grease" from my local Ford Dealer, it helps promote the connection thru the pins whereas the "Di-electric" grease
inhibits the current flow. (Personal experience)

I use it right on the connector pins (Sparingly) and then surround the mating surfaces of the connectors as Mikey suggested too.

Oh Crap, Another Sunday Driver.
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post #73 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
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still not fixed ... low fuel pressure only while cranking

OK so I replaced the bad PCM and well it still has a long crank time BUT the low vacuum reading is now gone (The old PCM was retarding the timing). So I took it into my fathers trusted mechanic and well they told me the spark plugs, cap and rotor was bad after asking them to see the old parts they where shot. The mechanic told me the computer and the bad ICM could have messed them up. So after replacing those items the crank time went from 10 seconds to 7 seconds. So I had them check the fuel pressure and they found out that the truck holds pressure but it dropd super low while cranking. Could this be my FPR ? I took the truck home because to keep on having them test this it would cost a lot more money. What should I start testing ?

What would cause the fuel pressure to ONLY TO DROP WHILE CRANKING ?
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post #74 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 12:47 AM
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Meter the fuel pump test point on the diagnostic connector to insure that the fuel pump stays on while the starter is engaged.
The PCM is supposed to pick the fuel pump relay when the ignition is in "start". Maybe the fuel pump is not pumping during crank, once the engine starts the PCM senses the PIP pulses from the distributor and will keep the fuel pump relay picked.


1996 Ford Bronco '94 EVTM picture | SuperMotors.net

During engine crank, the manifold vacuum is low, which would cause the Fuel Pump Regulator to put out maximum pressure IF IT CAN, so if the pump stops during crank there is nothing the fuel pressure regulator can do.

One little known strategy of the PCM is the ability of the PCM to clear a flooded engine (something that should never happen with a fuel injected engine). If the PCM senses WOT (wide open throttle) while cranking, the PCM will shut off the fuel system. The PCM senses WOT from the voltage coming from the TPS, if the TPS is screwed and telling the PCM that you are at WOT, the PCM will shut off the fuel during crank. Once the engine starts (ignition switch to "On" from "Start"), the PCM will allow WOT operation.

"The simplest solution is usually the best solution" - Occam's Razor

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post #75 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 02:55 AM Thread Starter
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Alright man thanks, I will take a look at it when I get on spring break in a couple of weeks.
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post #76 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 03:03 AM Thread Starter
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One more thing to add this long crank time never happens when the tank is full. The mechanic I took it to said he thinks I should check hoses on top of the tank. But I will check the electrical side first. Maybe the ignition switch could be cutting power to the pump while cranking ? But why would it not happen when the tank is full. Should I also check to see if the pump is getting good voltage ?
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post #77 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 12:33 PM
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What are the fuel pressure numbers? Key on engine off, during crank, engine idling with the FPR vacuum line on, and engine idling with the vacuum line off the FPR and the vacuum line plugged.

It is normal for the voltage to the pump be lower during crank (same as the lights dimming if you had them on while cranking), the starter draws about 150 amps or so.

I guess there is a possibility that your fuel pump is worn (or something) and when the voltage drops during crank, that voltage is too low to run the pump. During crank, there is very little fuel being used (remember the engine is only cranking about 200 RPM), so any lack of fuel almost has to be because of poor fuel supply, and not from excessive fuel being used.

(If the injectors were stuck wide open, the engine would flood and not start, which is not the problem you are relating to us.)

"The simplest solution is usually the best solution" - Occam's Razor

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." - Albert Einstein
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post #78 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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It's the pump :(

well it turns out the problem is the pump. My father misunderstood the mechanic. I called him and he said I was running lean. When he checked the pressure here where the readings

KOEO: 20PSI

CRANKING: slowly goes up 37 PSI

Running: 35 PSI

then when he shuts it off. I goes to 0 PSI in 2 mins

So he told me that I need a fuel pump. After taking it home I borrowed a fuel pressure test and got the same values. So I can confirm its a bad pump.

So what type of pump do I buy ? Do I replace JUST the pump or the whole assembly. If I do replace JUST the pump then will it have the check valves included ?
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post #79 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 05:42 PM
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On my '94, I bought a pump from Advance Auto - it was about $130, plus I bought a new locking ring, ~$20.

I cut the access hole per Steve83's write up, I have a welded on trailer hitch, and this was easier to do rather that dropping the tank. Here's Steve83 write up:
1983 Ford Bronco Bronco Fuel Pump Access Hole pictures, videos, and sounds | SuperMotors.net

I used an air nibbler to cut the access hole, (and I got the material to cover the access hole from JBG). I wanted to avoid sparks and not cut any of the wires or lines (fuel supply and return). Harbor Freight had the nibbler for $20, good power shears would work too. One person here used a die grinder or cut-off tool, and just put his garden hose on Spray and fine misted the top of the tank while he was cutting the hole.

Here's some pictures, as FSB loves pictures:





Notice how close the lines and hoses are, if you drop the tank, you'll have to reach around and undo the connector and the lines before completely dropping the tank, make sure you have a good fuel line disconnect tool, as they can be a PITA after not coming apart for well over 20 years. You'll also need a couple of butt connectors to splice in the wires for the pump.






I bought the "white" part. The fuel level sender unbolts from the FDM (Fuel Distribution Module),

I have not idea how/why the top separated from the body of the FDM, but I'm pretty sure that was causing the pump to cavitate and mix a lot of air with the fuel, causing my very hard hot restart problem. (I noticed when I tested the fuel pressure that I had a lot of bubbles in the clear pressure relief tube after testing, my other Bronco didn't demonstrate this same behavior. There was so much air mixed in the fuel rail, that until the pressure bled down and the fuel cooled a bit, the engine wouldn't start due to no fuel. It took me a couple of weeks to find that strange problem)



Good Luck

"The simplest solution is usually the best solution" - Occam's Razor

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." - Albert Einstein
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post #80 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks mike! I'll get to it in about week or so. So does the white part include the pump AND the check valves ? I think the shop I took the bronco to 6 years ago just replaced the pump and not the check valves. Needles to say, Big thank you to you and all of FSB for giving me the knowledge to test and fix this stuff by myself rather then getting shafted by certain shops.
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