Ford Bronco Hard start after sitting ? Also exhaust question - Page 5 - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #81 of 101 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 06:03 PM
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No problem, one more thing, in Steve83's write up, he takes the rear carpet out, when I did mine, I just took the black plastic threshold off, and took the carpet and folded it up toward the front. That way you don't have to take out all that seat hardware.

Yes the FDM has all the valves, etc. The pump is removable from the FDM if you unsnap the FDM apart (like my FDM was trying to do by itself). The actual pump is about 4"-5" long, about an 1 1/4" diameter, and sits in the bottom of the FDM. Make sure that the replacement comes with a new strainer (not shown in my pictures).

Here's the stuff inside the FDM:



http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/892443

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post #82 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 12:18 AM Thread Starter
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Alright thanks dude,

Is this a good brand. It looks like it would do the job. does this unit have the valves and the pump included.

Delphi Automotive FG0198 - Fuel Pump Module | O'Reilly Auto Parts


Sorry I just want to get some opinions. Also should I replace the assembly or just the pump while i'm in there?

If I do go with motorcraft I see the whole assembly. Its pricey BUT this truck is my DD and I do really care about it and want the most reliable pump and valves.
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post #83 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 01:35 AM
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I don't remember what brand I bought, only that I bought it at Advance Auto. That unit looks like the FDM I bought. Remember to get a new locking ring.

My '96 ran the original pump for about 110K miles (18 years). The one I replaced in my '94 (above pictures) had a date code of 2002-7-10, so whatever brand it was (I saw no markings on it), it lasted about 12 years (changed it in June 2014). If you cut the access hole you could change it in an hour, if you drop the tank, it would probably take longer, especially if you had a full tank of fuel. (20 gallons of gas weighs about 124 lbs, plus the weight of the tank itself) (gas is 6.183 lbs/gallon)

So, pay your money and take your chances.

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post #84 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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Could I use non insulated crimps while connecting the pump to the harness then cover the crimps in heat shrink tubing.

Will the gas disintegrate the heat shrink tubing.
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post #85 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 05:43 PM
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Your FDM might come with crimp connectors, I don't remember if mine came the connectors, or I used ones that I already had.
I would recommend insulated crimp connectors, as I don't know if heat shrink tubing is fuel (ethanol and gasoline) resistant.
Having a spark occur inside a half full gas tank is something that might be fun to watch from a distance, but not 10' behind me.

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post #86 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks man, Just bought a carter fuel pump and lock ring. I also found a motorcraft sender (Should replace the 22 year old one while i'm in there). Motorcraft fuel filter and gas cap.

I seems like I could just use female spade connectors and connect it to the male connectors on top of the assembly. So hopefully the wire can reach all the way up there. But if not the carter one comes with some butt connectors so I got a plan B.

EDIT: It's not just the pump but the whole FDM. JUst incase any future readers were confused.
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post #87 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
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Has me and the shop stumped

So after replacing the FDM and the sender and fuel filter. The problem still exists. The new pump primes faster but it still bleeds off pressure. The shop checked the FPR and it checked out good. It still drops pressure after you shut the key off. They told me the injectors should be fine since the new plugs had no indication of fuel fouling on it. My question is what else could it be. When the truck is running its like its brand new. Its just the hard start. If I prime it three times the long crank time disappears.
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post #88 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 02:32 PM
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Assuming there are no external leaks, there are only three things that cause fuel rail pressure to drop like that:

- Bad FPR
- Bad anti-drainback valve in high pressure pump
- Leaky injector or injectors

Keep in mind that especially in this day and age it is entirely possible to get a part that is bad out of the box. Also, the assertion that your injectors should be fine because the plugs aren't sooting up is questionable at best. It doesn't take much of a leak at all to depressurize the system and such a leak could effectively disappear when the engine is running or warm.
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post #89 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 11:35 PM
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Here's the whole fuel system, it's not that complicated, you have something broke. (Click the link below the picture to see it full size)


http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/892363



http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/892443

Read what the manual says about the fuel check valve.



http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/892444

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post #90 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 02:30 AM Thread Starter
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could I just like find a aftermarket check valve and put it near the fuel filter so it holds pressure. I assume I have a hole in the line inside the take the goes inside the pump because the hard start only happens when the fuel level is below 3/4's of a tank.
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post #91 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 03:24 AM
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Fix it correctly now, or wait until the pump fails completely, and then you'll have to fix it.

If you decide to fix it completely by replacing the fuel delivery assembly, consider cutting an access panel, it makes the replacement project much easier and faster. See:


1983 Ford Bronco Bronco Fuel Pump Access Hole picture | SuperMotors.net

I used a air nibbler to cut the panel, a power shear would also work. Or you can drop the tank. If you drop the tank, be sure you have good fuel line removal tools (two different size lines, supply is larger than the return line), as you'll have to release the fuel lines from the tank before it is completely lowered. You'll need the fuel line removal tools regardless of which method you use.
One other thing is that I just removed the threshold and rolled up the carpet and didn't have to remove the rear seat pivot bolts.

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post #92 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 04:11 AM Thread Starter
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But i just replaced the pump and have the exact same symptoms.....and by the pump i mean the whole FDM. I don't understand like why do i keep getting bad pumps. I tired motorcraft and carter. The injectors are fine I removed them and tested them NO LEAKS....I also replaced the seals and then checked for leaks and its dry and the spray pattern is good. Am I just getting unlucky the pump is putting excellent pressure after it runs. Could I have a leak in the steel line to the FDM inside the gas tank?
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post #93 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 06:26 AM
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But i just replaced the pump and have the exact same symptoms.....and by the pump i mean the whole FDM. I don't understand like why do i keep getting bad pumps. I tired motorcraft and carter. The injectors are fine I removed them and tested them NO LEAKS....I also replaced the seals and then checked for leaks and its dry and the spray pattern is good. Am I just getting unlucky the pump is putting excellent pressure after it runs. Could I have a leak in the steel line to the FDM inside the gas tank?
If you replaced the entire FDM, you should have all new steel lines in the tank as they're part of the FDM. Your prior post seemed to be confused as an FDM includes the fuel level sender yet you mentioned replacing it separately.

I forget, did you actually replace the fuel pressure regulator? Also, have you tested to see how long it now takes your system to leak down? Did you test your injectors to see if they sometimes stick open when cold?
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post #94 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 06:54 AM
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then when he shuts it off. I goes to 0 PSI in 2 mins

So he told me that I need a fuel pump. After taking it home I borrowed a fuel pressure test and got the same values. So I can confirm its a bad pump.
That didn't necessarily mean the pump is bad. You need to get some hose clamps (The ones that shut off fluid flow through the hoses) and check leak down like this (since you have an issue with hot starting do it with the engine warm):

Attach your fuel pressure gauge and re-prime the system. You want full pressure from the start.

Crimp closed your fuel return line and monitor your fuel pressure for 15min. Since you were losing pressure in 2 this should tell you if your fuel pressure regulator is bad or you have other issues creeping up on you).

Next, uncrimp your return line, reprime the system, and crimp the supply. Again, watch pressure over 15min. This'll let you know if there is any issue on the pump side. Since you have a new pump, I'm going to guess this isn't an issue.

Finally, remove that clamp, reprime, then clamp both the supply and return lines. Watch pressure. IF you are losing pressure now them you have a leaking injector(s).

Gen 6 BBC's are bad about leaking injectors and FPRs going bad. I had to do this a couple of times before I upgraded.

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post #95 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
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I did replace the FPR just for good measure. I did also check the new one by smelling for gas and also by pulling the vacuum and watching it while the pressure drops. No gas or anything poured out. Also it never smelled like gas, This being said how would I go by crimping the fuel line. What's the safest method without breaking a line?

The pressure drops almost as soon as a turn the key off. Like when I turn the key off the pressure drops like a rock.
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post #96 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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Also its doesn't matter if it is warm or cold now the pressure still drop nomatter what.
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post #97 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
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Also its doesn't matter if it is warm or cold now the pressure still drop nomatter what.
The manual says the fuel check valve holds pressure (see thread #89), your pump is not doing that.

The fuel pickup and pump are all at the bottom of the tank, see the diagram of the fuel delivery assembly. If you have any fuel in the tank, the pump will pick it up.

IIRC, there are "O" rings that seal the steel fuel lines to the plastic FDA. You've said that you have replaced the FDA twice (Motorcraft and Carter), so the chances of some seal leaking in the fuel line to FDA interface is pretty slim.

If the fuel check valve was "stuck" open, the fuel pressure should be lower than normal. How much pressure do you have at KOEO (key on engine off) with the pump running (jumper the pin from the diagnostic port to keep the pump running). Then check the pressure with the engine idling, and with the pressure regulator vacuum line off. Tell us those numbers.

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post #98 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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Here's the results

KOER: 35 - 34 psi

pulled the vac line to the regulator and it jump to 45 psi

put the vac line back on then it goes to 34 - 35 psi

KOEO: 30psi then after about five second starts to bleed to 20psi then 10 more seconds 10psi then 0psi

priming slowly goes to about 25psi.

The cater pump dose sound alot stronger its super quite compared to the old one (the old one whined a lot). The pump just seems healthy.......
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post #99 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 11:14 PM Thread Starter
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So I checked codes (KOER) and I'm running rich, Could this point to a leaky injector? That would explain my rough idle in park, At this point should I just replace the injectors? The bronco has 185000 on it.
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post #100 of 101 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 03:01 AM
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So I checked codes (KOER) and I'm running rich, Could this point to a leaky injector? That would explain my rough idle in park, At this point should I just replace the injectors? The bronco has 185000 on it.
Yes, that could be a leaky injector. You probably don't need to replace the injectors as you can have them cleaned and tested. At this mileage that's not a bad idea.
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