Something new goin on and need a little help figuring it out! - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
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Something new goin on and need a little help figuring it out!

95 bronco xlt 5.8L. This started when i thought my fuel pump was bad, replaced it but was sent the wrong one, purchased the right one and installed it along with a new fuel filter, all because my truck wasn't starting, so it's possible i threw away a good pump. Anyway, problem is that when i start my truck first time of the day it runs fine, once it gets to idle nicely for about 10 secs, then for whatever reason the idle goes up to 1800 rpm, starts to smoke, and a loud sucking noise comes from the throttle body where the intake hoses connect, but the noise stops when the idle is good. This "fart" happens at any time and if i give it more than half throttle it backfires. I've replaced the IAC valve. The smog, egr valve, and cats were removed long ago. I installed a egr simulator recently but no change. Is it possible that since i reset the ecm i might need to drive my truck so the ecm can relearn it? I also noticed that the engine area feels really hot after the "fart" starts. Any help is greatly appreciated and thanks

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 11:50 AM
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have you checked for intake leaks?
Spray some carb cleaner around all your sealing surfaces, and see if there is a change in idle.

Definitely not the ECM
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 04:23 PM
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Yo beatnbronco,

As Teal94 advised.
See my Vacuum leak test in post #11 @ Help with dtc codes and idle
With the engine cold, visually and physically check all vacuum hoses. The most common vacuum leak problem is the PCV tube's elbow, where it connects to the intake manifold.
... start her up and spray around the intake manifold's gaskets to check for leaks. If the carb spray hits a spot that is leaking, the engine RPM's will increase or decrease and this will pinpoint the source of the vacuum leak.
Not only will the RPMs increase or decrease, remember, you can't let the engine get hot and continue to spray the intake manifold to cylinder head areas with carb spra

A Backfire can also be caused by a vacuum leak. Or by misrouted spark plug wires. Spark Plug Wire Routing & Firing Orders by Tank92 @ 1992 Ford Bronco wires picture | SuperMotors.net

The smoke is probably un-burnt fuel remaining in the exhaust system and burning due to the exhaust heat.

Is the CEL lit during the time it idled high?

Were IAC passages clogged?

See my partially recovered Bronco web site ...Will need to clean up dead links & add many more new links some day. Thanks to Mr. Schwim!
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teal94 View Post
have you checked for intake leaks?
Spray some carb cleaner around all your sealing surfaces, and see if there is a change in idle.



Definitely not the ECM
Will do, at this point i'm willing to try anything. This is the one time i've had to reach out for help on a problem with my truck. thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by miesk5 View Post
Yo beatnbronco,

As Teal94 advised.
See my Vacuum leak test in post #11 @ Help with dtc codes and idle
With the engine cold, visually and physically check all vacuum hoses. The most common vacuum leak problem is the PCV tube's elbow, where it connects to the intake manifold.
... start her up and spray around the intake manifold's gaskets to check for leaks. If the carb spray hits a spot that is leaking, the engine RPM's will increase or decrease and this will pinpoint the source of the vacuum leak.
Not only will the RPMs increase or decrease, remember, you can't let the engine get hot and continue to spray the intake manifold to cylinder head areas with carb spra

A Backfire can also be caused by a vacuum leak. Or by misrouted spark plug wires. Spark Plug Wire Routing & Firing Orders by Tank92 @ 1992 Ford Bronco wires picture | SuperMotors.net

The smoke is probably un-burnt fuel remaining in the exhaust system and burning due to the exhaust heat.

Is the CEL lit during the time it idled high?

Were IAC passages clogged?
The CEL comes on when the high idle starts and if i'm able to get it out of the situation, the CEL will extinguish. I failed to mention that if I try to move my truck I will nearly half to floor it for it to move, but will move better when manually shifted. Could it be that module on passenger side of the transmission tail? I remember reading about that in one of the searches I performed
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beatnbronco View Post
Could it be that module on passenger side of the transmission tail? I remember reading about that in one of the searches I performed
if its starting in a higher gear then first from a stop, try swapping out the MLPS sensor on the driver side of the transmission. They are a common failure point, and on high mileage vehicles, are almost always worth replacing.

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 10:57 AM
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Yo,
Try a Self Test for Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)s by my pal, BroncoJoe19

Continuous Memory DTCs are issued as a result of information stored during Key On Engine Off test, while the vehicle was in normal operation. These DTCs are displayed only during Key On Engine Off Self-Test and after the separator pulse. Intermittent faults that have not occurred in the last 80 warm-up cycles (40 cycles on some applications) are erased from Continuous Memory and will not produce a Continuous Memory DTC. So you may see a MLPS Code.


See MLPS Test:

by Mikey350

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teal94 View Post
if its starting in a higher gear then first from a stop, try swapping out the MLPS sensor on the driver side of the transmission. They are a common failure point, and on high mileage vehicles, are almost always worth replacing.
The odometer just hit 70k but that might be incorrect due to 40" tires instead of the factory fitted. I'm gonna do some research on the MLPS sensor and look into changing it. Can it be tested?

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miesk5 View Post
Yo,
Try a Self Test for Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)s by my pal, BroncoJoe19

Continuous Memory DTCs are issued as a result of information stored during Key On Engine Off test, while the vehicle was in normal operation. These DTCs are displayed only during Key On Engine Off Self-Test and after the separator pulse. Intermittent faults that have not occurred in the last 80 warm-up cycles (40 cycles on some applications) are erased from Continuous Memory and will not produce a Continuous Memory DTC. So you may see a MLPS Code.


See MLPS Test:

by Mikey350
I'll get those as soon as i get another cup of coffee and some shoes on, gotta have the coffee

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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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well, it was hard getting it started, the fuel pump just kept running like most of the time since this all started, but i did notice one thing and this is at the end of the day just now...those moments when the fuel pump keeps running I can hear a faint noise like a leak of some sort coming from the back of the engine. No fuel or any fluid is leaking outside the engine so I'm wondering if there is an injector that's constantly dumping fuel and that sound is fuel going through the line. My truck is a bit high up so it's pretty hard to get all the way back there to really inpect but i'll rig something tomorrow to help with that.

After I got it started I sprayed carb cleaner all around the intake, on vacuum lines, and around the throttle body but the idle didn't change a bit. The codes I pulled during the KOEO self-test are:
327-EGR Circuit Below Minimum Voltage. Which i had the egr simulator unplugged
565-Canister Purge Circuit Failure KOEO

The extended memory:
512-Keep Alive Memory Test Failure

After i pulled the codes I started it back up and it actually idled properly for about 5 mins so i decided to take it for a spin and drove 5 miles down the road and back, it ran great and made it back to the driveway and that's when i turned it off.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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Ok..got dark quick on me, baseball season back in full swing and have to take my nephew to practice sometimes so wasn't able to track down the hissing noise today. I did, on the other hand grab a haynes manual from the parts house yesterday so maybe i can look for clues in there

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 02:50 PM
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Yo,
Use a stepladder, to look @ engine rear for possible vacuum leak or @ TAD/TAB Valves
media/252396_1][/url]
Or the leak in air tube there tyat travels to catalytic converter.

327-EGR Circuit Below Minimum Voltage. Which i had the egr simulator unplugged ok
565-Canister Purge Circuit Failure KOEO DTC 565 "...The canister purge solenoid dangles in its vacuum line between the R side of the engine and the canister on the R frame rail, so its wiring could have hit the exhaust manifold.
DTC 565 Pin-Point Testing & Possible Causes
Source: by Ford via miesk5 at FSB
Here it is; I am having issues with Copy & Pasting so go to the link above to ensure you see all the info & diagrams
Here is my C&P:
From Ford;
Possible causes:
Open harness (VPWR or CANP).
Damaged CANP solenoid.
Shorted (power to ground) harness.
Damaged Powertrain Control Module (PCM) (LESS LIKELY!!!)

Key on, engine off.
Disconnect appropriate CANP solenoid.
Measure voltage between VPWR at the CANP solenoid vehicle harness connector and battery ground.
Is the voltage greater than 10.5 volts?
Yes - GO to KD7
No - SERVICE open VPWR circuit. RECONNECT CANP solenoid. RERUN Quick Test

KD7 CHECK CANP RESISTANCE
Key off.
Disconnect appropriate CANP solenoid.
Measure CANP solenoid resistance.
Is resistance between 30 and 90 ohms?
Yes - GO to KD8
No - REPLACE CANP solenoid. RERUN Quick Test.

KD8 CHECK CONTINUITY OF CANP CIRCUIT
Key off.
Appropriate CANP solenoid disconnected. (some Fords have two)
Disconnect Powertrain Control Module (PCM). Inspect for damaged or pushed out pins, corrosion, loose wires, etc. Service as necessary.
Install breakout box (see Pin Outs below to check w/o this box), leave PCM disconnected.
Measure resistance between Test Pin 11, 15, 31 or 54 (refer to pinpoint test schematic ) at the breakout box and CANP circuit at the CANP solenoid vehicle harness connector.
Is resistance less than 5.0 ohms?
Yes - GO to KD9
No - SERVICE open circuit. REMOVE breakout box. RECONNECT all components. RERUN Quick Test

KD9 CHECK CANP CIRCUIT FOR SHORT TO GROUND
Key off.
Appropriate CANP solenoid disconnected.
Breakout box installed, PCM disconnected.
Disconnect Scan Tool from Data Link Connector (if applicable).
Measure resistance between Test Pin 11, 15, 31 or 54 (refer to pinpoint test schematic ) and Test Pins 40, 46 and 60 at the breakout box.
Is each resistance greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes - GO to KD10
No - SERVICE short to ground. REMOVE breakout box. RECONNECT all components. RERUN Quick Test.

KD10 CHECK CANP CIRCUIT FOR SHORT TO POWER
CANP solenoid disconnected.
Breakout box installed, PCM disconnected.
Scan Tool disconnected from Data Link connector.
Measure resistance between Test Pin 11, 15, 31 or 54 (refer to pinpoint test schematic ) and Test Pins 37 and 57 at the breakout box.
Is each resistance greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes - REPLACE PCM. REMOVE breakout box and Scan Tool. RECONNECT all components. RERUN Quick Test.

No - SERVICE short to power. REMOVE breakout box and Scan Tool. RECONNECT all components. RERUN Quick Test.
...

Overview, Failure Symptoms & Depiction, general; "...Vent fuel vapors from the fuel tank to the charcoal canister, and control the purging of these and other vapors from the fuel tank into the intake manifold when certain engine speed and temperature conditions are attained. Above idle, the mixture becomes very rich. Stumble on acceleration, poor fuel mileage, flooded charcoal canister and catalytic converter overheat can occur. Check for ruptured diaphragms inside the valve and misrouted or damaged hoses..."
Source: by tomco-inc.com
..
The extended memory:
512-Keep Alive Memory Test Failure
"...indicates the PCM has experienced a power interrupt in its Keep Alive Memory (KAM) circuit. If KAPWR is interrupted to the PCM, for example when installing a breakout box, or when battery is disconnected, DTC 512 may be stored in Continuous Memory. Key off. Disconnect Powertrain Control Module (PCM). Inspect for damaged or pushed out pins, corrosion, loose wires, etc. Service as necessary. Install breakout box, leave PCM disconnected. Measure voltage between Test Pin 1 and Test Pin 40 or 60 at the breakout box. While observing DVOM, grasp the EEC-IV harness and wiggle, shake or bend a small section while working from the PCM to the dash panel. Does DVOM indicate less than 10.5 volts? Make sure you have a good ground at G101 (Passenger of engine compartment, near battery). If so I think I would go ahead and change the PCM as I do not know of any thing else out side the PCM to cause this..."; Source: by subford

Inspect PCM...
Open EEC and look for leaky/burnt capacitors.
Capacitor Repair in a 90 5.8
Source: by dolittle (seedpress) at Fuel Pump Runs But Engine Won't Start
"... finally pulled the computer and, sure enough, two of the electrolytic capacitors had leaked. Not only were they shot, but the leaked electrolyte had begun corroding some pins on one of the semiconductors. The computer board is covered with a conformal coating to protect it against moisture and contamination, but the electrolyte had also seeped under or through that coating and discolored the board in places.

First I cut out all three of the electrolytic capacitors, although only two of the three had leaked. Then I tried to clean the spilled electrolyte. To remove the corrosive electrolyte I had to strip off the conformal coating where I saw board discoloration. I tried to clean the affected areas with rubbing alcohol, dilute acetone (used for finger nail polish remover), and WD-40. Also, one logic IC (integrated circuit) had three pins that were corroded by the electrolyte. I tried as best as I could to clean them mechanically.

The two leaking capacitors were 47uF 16V, and the third a 10uF 63 volt. I didn't have these values on hand, but coincidentally I had just bought a hundred 22uFs with a 63V working voltage. So by paralleling two of the 22s I was able to get 44uFs, and in series I got an 11 uf. Electrolytic caps have a wide tolerance range anyway, so I hoped that would be good enough. The one problem was all the original caps were 105 C temperature, whereas my replacements are only 85 C. But my computer is behind the driver's kick panel, instead of in the engine compartment. So, I am hoping it will work, at least for a while.

It was a pain to replace the caps! First, I found it difficult to solder the new, "paralleled" capacitors to the printed circuit board. Then, I wasn't sure how many layers the board had -- it's easy to overheat and ruin underlying layers. Finally, some of the copper pads to which the new caps were being soldered were also very close to fine-pitched copper traces. My finished "repair" is a real mess! But it seems to be working.

'90 Bronco EEC Interior Photo by dolittleproject | Photobucket

as I mentioned in another thread here; In place of the breakout box, go to the EEC CONNECTOR's pin(s) instead
Ensure battery is fully charged
Run the engine at 1500 rpm with no electrical load.
Read the voltage. The voltage should be in the range of 14.1 to 14.7 volts.
Pin 1 is KA PWR Keep Alive Power

Pins 40 is Ground
Pin 60 is Ground

pic by Ryan M.
F
The Keep Alive Memory (KAM) within the processor must always have voltage supplied to it. This voltage is supplied by the Keep Alive Power (KAPWR) circuit (Pin 1) that connects directly to the battery. KAM contains adaptive parameter tables that allow the processor to adapt to different operating requirements. It also contains the Continuous Memory codes. Continuous Memory codes will be erased any time KAPWR is disconnected (i.e. battery disconnected, processor disconnected, breakout box installed, open in the wire, etc.). If KAM fails within the processor, all Continuous codes will also be erased.
&
Also caused by;
Battery terminal corrosion
KAPWR to PCM interrupt/open
Loose battery connection
Damaged PCM

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-25-2017, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
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That was alot of info Miesk, and I'll get right on it. To catch up since i last posted, it did run good during the trip down the road and back, but since that it's still acting up. I replaced the Fuel Pressure Regulator but still hear the sound coming from back of engine. I removed the upper intake so that i could possibly pinpoint the origin of the noise but I'm afraid that it's the sound of the fuel pump travelling up the line.

I'm clueless as to why the fuel pump is acting the way it does. I checked all wiring for cracks and shorts in the entire engine bay and around the tranny. Replaced all vacuum lines. Next step is to perform the checks laid out in the post above, install a new gasket on the upper intake, and replace the fuel pump relay. Thanks for all of the excellent help!

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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Yesterday i removed and cleaned the fuel injectors, plenum, and throttle body. I wanted to ask real quik that if the egr valve, cat converter, purge canister, and fuel vapor box have been removed, is there still a purpose for the egr control solenoid, TAD, or TAB? I would like to make sure that when these things are removed, there isn't anything left behind that needs to be modded or removed in order to keep any further problems from arising as a result of it. The tube that connects the the back of the heads to the egr system are still there only plugged where they meet. I plan to remove that and plug the holes as soon as this storm passes

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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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I found the answer to my last question so please ignore

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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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Any idea what the shiny thing is on the blue fuel line? I replaced the manifold air temp sensor, which I'm glad i did cuz it was nasty as hell! I hear a vacuum leak from behind the plenum, I'm going to remove the intake entirely cuz the rear rubber gasket might've slipped out. A year ago i replaced the intake manifold gasket and that rear rubber one was a pain to get inplace and stay

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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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I sprayed carb cleaner on the back of the intake and there was no change in the engine idle, i did investigate the vacuum leak further and found that the vacuum line on the bottom of the TAD wasn't on right. I had taken it off 2 days ago to replace the line and instead of it going back on correctly it actually was jammed between the bottom and top vacuum nipples.

As of right now my truck is running like a top! It idled fine for 30 mins in the driveway while i flushed the radiator. I believe that the manifold temp sensor was the culprit that waz causing the issue. The fuel pump primes properly and it fires right up! I'm gonna drive it to my daughters chorus performance. Thank you to all the help and assistance i received during troubleshooting the issue. I'll chime back in later in a few days to let everyone know the status. Thanks again!

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