ignition upgrade and timing bump (no 56K) - Page 3 - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #41 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-17-2006, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKossarides
Can I get that timing tape at any auto parts store like Autozone or Kragen?


Thanks!


Probably

just tell the knuckle dragging GM neophyte that it's for a Chevy. Once he's found it, then ask him if they come for Fords.

JB

Read Sewiv's info post, he's got a hard to get pic of just U iz talkin' bout'

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post #42 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-17-2006, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
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Don't use the tape, just rub in some drywall dust or chalk. Or sand and paint it, if you're not in a hurry.

JB, there's a little space between all the pulleys and stuff through which you can see the timing marks. That's the only place you can see it from. If you're short, you may need to stand on something, because you have to basically look down on it at an angle. I'm 6'1" and had to hold my head just right.
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post #43 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-17-2006, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB
im 5'8
Nothin' wrong with bein' short(er), it's just probably causing you problems in this particular case.

Check out the picture in the first post in this thread where I tell you to use a paint pen to paint the indicator. It tells you just what pulleys to look between. If you can't see anything then, try standing on something and looking down into that same spot. It may help to take your grill off, too. It's only 5 or 6 screws, and lets you get closer to the action.
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post #44 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-18-2006, 12:36 PM
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Ok guys...my MSD Coil, Rotor, and Cap are arriving in the mail today. Couple questions for you...

1. How long should it take an inexperienced person like me to change these out? Can I tackle it right after work and still have enough light to complete the job?

2. My wires aren't going to arrive until Monday/Tuesday, but a friend of mine (who is a mechanic at a Cadillac dealership) is going to be in-town on Saturday and is bringing his timing light so we can do a timing bump...is it ok to bump the timing with the stock wires on? I'd hate to have to wait for the next time he's in town.
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post #45 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-18-2006, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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BN: If you change out the coil without changing out the wires, you may get some arcing until you can replace the wires. Depends on the conditions of your wires, though.

If you're just changing the coil, cap, and rotor, that's about half an hour of work, with no pauses or slacking. Changing wires and plugs is what takes a while.

Don't bother to bump the timing until you have new plugs in, with the new gap. It'd be nice to have the wires then as well, or you'll end up doing part of the job twice (dealing with the wires, bleagh).
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post #46 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-18-2006, 01:36 PM
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Just finished putting the coil on and started taking out the plugs to gap them. The po stated they were just installed but by the spots of rust just above the threads I am highly doubtful unless they had been sitting on a shelf somewhere. The ends don't look to bad, but since I've only put about 300 miles on the Bronc since I got her, I figured they should look almost new. Now I've got to wait until tonight to run up and get some cheapo plugs, DAMN! Also I got the premium wireset from NAPA but didn't notice until later that they are only 8mm. How big of a difference between these and 8.5mm for the timing advance?

Black sport monochrome 94 XLT 351/E4OD Ignition upgrade/timing bump otherwise stock.146,000 on the odo.
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post #47 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-18-2006, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco Newbie
Ok guys...my MSD Coil, Rotor, and Cap are arriving in the mail today. Couple questions for you...

1. How long should it take an inexperienced person like me to change these out? Can I tackle it right after work and still have enough light to complete the job?

2. My wires aren't going to arrive until Monday/Tuesday, but a friend of mine (who is a mechanic at a Cadillac dealership) is going to be in-town on Saturday and is bringing his timing light so we can do a timing bump...is it ok to bump the timing with the stock wires on? I'd hate to have to wait for the next time he's in town.
BroncoNewbie

If you mean you'll have to postpone doing this until the next time your mechanic buddy is in town, I'd do it anyway this weekend, just don't drive it too much until you get those wires on (as fast as possible).

The time in between his visits could pay for the dang parts in fuel savings and that'd be terrible to miss out on.

Problem with less than REALLY GOOD aftermarket wires is(and listen closely burger213) the thing could cross fire between the wires and run like $h!t causing your GM buddy to doubt the wisdom of these changes.

The MSD "has" the fat spark and the widened plug gaps "want/need" the fat spark. Now you put $h!t wires (or a less than perfect cap&rotor) in between and it could run like crap on a stick.

Like Sewiv says the coil, cap & rotor are a cake walk, so is running the wires really. The plugs on the driver's bank are not too, too bad to get at, but your mechanic buddy is gonna come in REAL HANDY on the passenger's side.

Some small block Fords are real beeeeeeaches and I've wasted 2 hours changing 4 plugs on my 5.0 litre Lincoln Town Car. That is why recently (after my bronco became emissions exempt) my smog pump ended up at the side of the highway .

I guess what I'm trying to caution you and burger213 about is the need for quality plug wires to transfer all the spark where it needs to go.

One thing you can do before your GM buddy gets here is at least sand down the rust off your harmonic balancer (unless it's still prime shape) so the timing marks are clear and find your SPOUT valve for him.

Burger213 if there's any way to order up some Ford Motorsports 9mm wires or Taylor SpiroPros I'd do it. Some American stealerships are selling them for less than house brand wires sets. Call the Ford stealership tonight or tomorrow.

If you can't get you money back, then stick with the replacement brand plug wires, they'll probably work fine while they're new.

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post #48 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-18-2006, 07:24 PM
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Thanks Six. I'm doubting they'll take the wires back as I've loaded the boots with dielectric grease. Hopefully they will hold up for a year and when I change plugs next spring I'll upgrade. Are the 8mm spiro's that Sewiv uses just a better quality than other brands???

Black sport monochrome 94 XLT 351/E4OD Ignition upgrade/timing bump otherwise stock.146,000 on the odo.
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post #49 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-18-2006, 07:28 PM
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if they look really clean on the wires and boots usually they wont inspect them that far if you get some kid working. just clean them up the best you can.
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post #50 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-18-2006, 07:56 PM
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I think I already pitched the box too. I usually keep stuff like that around for awhile. Oops! .

edit- WOW!! I just took it out for a spin and what a difference!! It rockets from a dead stop compared to what it used to do and mid range performance is also improved. Now I'll have to ease up on the throttle and see if MPG's improve.

Black sport monochrome 94 XLT 351/E4OD Ignition upgrade/timing bump otherwise stock.146,000 on the odo.
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post #51 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 12:25 AM
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OK so I am finaly getting ready to do this, but I have a few questions.

1. I want to do the coil, cap, rotor, plugs and wires w/o doing the timing bump right now. I will save that for later. So, leaving the timing where it is, do I need to regap the plugs or leave them where they are at?

2. I was also thinking of a new ignition box as well. Either a MSD 6A or Offroad. Would this help the performance of this whole setup ot is it not neccisary?

I am going to do the MSD cap, rotor and coil, with the Ford Racing wires, or maybe the MSD 9mm and new Autolites.

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post #52 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burger213
I think I already pitched the box too. I usually keep stuff like that around for awhile. Oops! .

edit- WOW!! I just took it out for a spin and what a difference!! It rockets from a dead stop compared to what it used to do and mid range performance is also improved. Now I'll have to ease up on the throttle and see if MPG's improve.
Excellent Burger213 !

Obviously you're fine with new replacement wires, so don't rush out and buy the aftermarket ones right away.

Did you bump the timing ahead yet or is that just with the .055 widened plug gap ?

GTRider

Yes you should open up the plug gap to .055 when slapping on the new wires, cap&rotor and MSD coil.

A control box does add "some" improvements, maybe 10-15% of the overall improvement from these mods and smooths things out a bit.

Truth is the coil, wires, wider plug gaps, cap&rotor are responsible for 85-90% of the improvement IMHO. So bearing that in mind, if you want to spend all that extra money for a possible 10-15% improvement, then go right ahead.

I did have an MSD-6 on mine, that's what I'm basing these unscientific estimate on. The F#@*Ing thing spent more time in the mail back and forth to Texas so I just said enough and left it on the bench.

I've heard encouraging things about the Crane unit, but remember the box is not where the majority of the improvements came from.

Do the timing bump as soon as you can after adding the parts.

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post #53 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Grade
Did someone point out that there was a write-up on doing the timing?

I have become so frustrated with trying to find the timing marks on my 86 5.8 to the point I just want to start ripping things out of the engine bay so that I can see down there.
You're in a timing thread done by Sewiv

head back to page one and read the captions under his pics. If there is any specific question they don't answer, then fire away.

I know you're 351 carbed 86 is different than my EFI 5.0 litre 86', but what's in the way ?

Somebody mentioned you had to be tall to see the marks with a light. Well, being tall I never noticed that, but anyone can even that up with a milk crate, try that to get the right pointing angle.

Have you cleaned and marked your balancer from underneath yet ?

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post #54 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 03:12 PM
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I know this was one of the mods i was very pleased with that i did. Except mine was 5.8 and i used MSI coil and Ford Racing cap/rotor and Ford Racing 9mm wires

I am lost in lala land for the time being.
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post #55 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-25-2006, 12:15 AM
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Just got all of the ignition stuff done tongiht. Went good minus the fact one of the boots on the plug end of the crappy Moroso spark plug wires broke off. I can tell a difference in response, especialy in the lower powerband.

I guess next is the timing bump.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogonmut View Post
NTB stole my baby's momma away from me when she was on her way down to the check cashin' store to pay my beeper bill.
Quote:
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I spent $330 for 4 BJs.
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post #56 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-25-2006, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRider245
Just got all of the ignition stuff done tongiht. Went good minus the fact one of the boots on the plug end of the crappy Moroso spark plug wires broke off. I can tell a difference in response, especialy in the lower powerband.

I guess next is the timing bump.
I thought Moroso were suppsed to be top quality ? Every set I ever priced was way over my budget. Are they crap ?

Glad it's running better, wait til' you bump that timing !

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post #57 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-25-2006, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixlitre
I thought Moroso were suppsed to be top quality ? Every set I ever priced was way over my budget. Are they crap ?

Glad it's running better, wait til' you bump that timing !

Sixlitre
Well, so did I. But, and I am not exxagerating, the basicly fell apart when I took them off, and the one boot broke on the plug. And the thing is, they had only been on about a year and a half.

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Quote:
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NTB stole my baby's momma away from me when she was on her way down to the check cashin' store to pay my beeper bill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan the man View Post
I spent $330 for 4 BJs.
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post #58 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-25-2006, 08:54 PM
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Oh and one more thing. The MSD rotor seemed to be IDENTICLE to the generic brand rotor that came off the truck. Anyone else notice this?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogonmut View Post
NTB stole my baby's momma away from me when she was on her way down to the check cashin' store to pay my beeper bill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan the man View Post
I spent $330 for 4 BJs.
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post #59 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-25-2006, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by GTRider245
Oh and one more thing. The MSD rotor seemed to be IDENTICLE to the generic brand rotor that came off the truck. Anyone else notice this?
The only cap I ever noticed to be vastly superior to stock USED TO BE a Jacobs cap.

I say USED TO BE because when the good doctor still owned and ran the company I purchased two dist caps for my small block Mopars.

When they arrived they were at least twice as thick, if not three times as thick as the plastic on an original Mopar cap. They also has real brass terminals, not anodized aluminum ones.

It doesn't matter on modern wide spaced Ford caps, but on Mopars I have to say it was the first time I could be guaranteed no high speed cross-firing.

Last time I ordered a Jacobs cap it was NO DIFFERENT than anyone else's cap.

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post #60 of 2372 (permalink) Old 05-25-2006, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixlitre
The only cap I ever noticed to be vastly superior to stock USED TO BE a Jacobs cap.

I say USED TO BE because when the good doctor still owned and ran the company I purchased two dist caps for my small block Mopars.

When they arrived they were at least twice as thick, if not three times as thick as the plastic on an original Mopar cap. They also has real brass terminals, not anodized aluminum ones.

It doesn't matter on modern wide spaced Ford caps, but on Mopars I have to say it was the first time I could be guaranteed no high speed cross-firing.

Last time I ordered a Jacobs cap it was NO DIFFERENT than anyone else's cap.

Sixlitre
About the only thing I noticed different with the cap was that the MSD cap seemed somewhat heavier.

But I was really talking about the rotor itself. From looks down to the numbers scribed on the dang thing there are IDENTICAL.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogonmut View Post
NTB stole my baby's momma away from me when she was on her way down to the check cashin' store to pay my beeper bill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan the man View Post
I spent $330 for 4 BJs.
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