How to pick a CAMSHAFT for EFI - Page 2 - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #21 of 115 (permalink) Old 05-17-2005, 06:34 PM
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ryan, would this be a good cam 35-308-8 my 5.8 is the f4te block so if the current stock cam is roller would this be good one to use? the ls is 114 and the intake is 210 exhaust 215. there are some other roller cams with 114 ls but they all say blower cam and probably would require a lot more done to a 5.8 to make it worth anything or they are a hi rpm cam

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post #22 of 115 (permalink) Old 05-18-2005, 01:02 AM Thread Starter
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I've heard of people using the 35-308-8
it should be ok

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post #23 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-08-2005, 11:47 PM
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Gonna throw in a bit of a curve here for the engine I'm currently building for my 96.

.030 over 351 flat tappet block
roush 200 heads(2.02Intake, 1.6 exhaust) 63cc chamber
1.6 RR
speed pro forged pistons @ 9.06 compression @63cc
Trick flow351W street or GT-40 lightning intake(If I can get ahold of one)
75mm TB
Bassani headers and cat pipe

Truck has factory mass air, E4OD, and 33's with 4.56 gears. Will most likely be recieving a dyno tune after the break in.

Camshaft I'm contemplating is one of the Lunati Voodoo cams:61001LK
Advertised duration, in/ex: 256/262
Duration @.050: 213/219
Gross Valve Lift IN/EX: .483"/.499"
Lobe seperation, intake centerline: 112/108

The truck is 99% street driven, and occasionally tows, but is mostly for just having fun. Its a bit bigger than most are running, but wanted to see what others thought.
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post #24 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-09-2005, 03:40 AM Thread Starter
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That Lunati cam is a standard Hydraulic flat tappet
If your 96 truck has the F4TE roller block, do the upgrade.

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post #25 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-09-2005, 04:00 AM
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I agree, run the roller cam especially if ya have the F4TE block. Completely worth the benefits that come along with roller profiles.

Power to be gained even just from the lack of friction, as well as slightly lower oil temps.

More lift for a given duration usually equates to more power (depends on head flow numbers etc, really).

Take a look at my sig, I have incredible torque for only a 357" engine. I have what is referred to in more drag racing oriented circles as the small cam big head combo going. Tiny duration specs to have the throttle response and torque at low rpms then lift for increased flow and velocity, and heads that flow like a mo fo for some continued power up in the rpm.
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post #26 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-09-2005, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireguy50
That Lunati cam is a standard Hydraulic flat tappet
If your 96 truck has the F4TF roller block, do the upgrade.
The block I am building the new motor in is a '74 flat tappet.
It depends on if I can swing getting the retrofit roller lifters(crane-400ish dollars), I don't want to run a reduced base circle cam, so that limits me to the expensive lifters.

If I do get the retrofit, I'll then get a roller cam that is comparable in specs though
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post #27 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-09-2005, 11:47 AM
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Hey Fireguy50,
I'm in the process of gathering the parts and $$$ to rebuild my engine. Before I read this thread I wrote to Edelbrock and asked them to give me their recommendations for a cam giving them the following information:

Hello,
I need to rebuild my engine and I am wondering if your technicians could make some recommendations for me on what Cam, Heads, Intake and exhaust manifold package to purchase that would work well together for the following applications.

With the exception of a Mass Air Conversion Kit that I purchased from Ford and a 3" exhaust from the Y-pipe back the truck is completely stock. I use the vehicle as a commuter (10 miles round trip to work and home at 5K feet) and in this environment the stock 302 is sufficient. I live in Colorado and use the vehicle for heading over the mountain passes into the ski country and for hunting in the high country. In this environment the stock 302 is less than adequate to say the least. I think what I am looking for in the end is an engine that has good torque in the low end at low speeds for the trails heading to my hunting camp, good mid-range to climb the steep grades over the passes but sill be able to maintain highway speeds of 75mph. Some of my hunting trips take me to other states so to be able to run comfortably at high speeds for long distances is important as well. The engine currently runs at 2200rpms at 75mph. Here are the current specs on my truck:

Year: 89
Make: Ford
Model: Bronco XLT
Engine: V8 302 EFI
Transmission: AOD
Gears: 3.55

Their response was to use the following cam:

Edelbrock 3722
* Duration at .050 in.: 220 / 220
* Gross valve lift: 0.498 / 0.498
* Lobe separation: 110°

The cam you recommended listed below is in the Edelbrock catalog under a 5.8L V8 so I guess I have 3 questions.
Can you use a cam from a 351 in 302?
If so what kind of difference would I see between the 3722 and the 3782 compared to stock?
And where would these differences be noticed (ie. low end torque, mid-range)?

Good 302/351 EFI cams:

Edelbrock 3782 $170
* Duration at .050 in.: 210 / 216
* Gross valve lift: 0.469 / 0.484
* Lobe separation: 116°
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post #28 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-09-2005, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agily00
The block I am building the new motor in is a '74 flat tappet.
It depends on if I can swing getting the retrofit roller lifters(crane-400ish dollars), I don't want to run a reduced base circle cam, so that limits me to the expensive lifters.

If I do get the retrofit, I'll then get a roller cam that is comparable in specs though
No access to the original F4TE 351 block? Or its hurt?

I didn't want the cost of the retrofit either, so I just went out and bought an F4TE roller capable block for cheap. Then scored lifters cheap, and stock 5.0 lifter hold down parts cheap, and I was set.

The duration will control where your power range / band is. The more lift of a roller simply increases the power within that range. The roller lifter cams generally always take advantage of this ability for more lift for a given duration spec. The LSA affects the vacume at idle and how broad or peaky the power is. A tighter LSA dramatically increases the peak numbers, while making for a slightly narrower power range. The increased LSA is needed for Speed Density do to the need for higher vacume signal. Thats why usually with SD you see cams with 114 to 116 deg LSA's.

My cam for example is referred to by many as the ultimate torque cam, and my Desktop Dyno sure thinks so aswell. I've only got a tiny 208/216 deg duration @ .050" lift, yet .533/.544 valve lift peaks, on a 112 LSA. I'm getting away with the 112 LSA do to the valve overlap specs still being minimal, thus keeping my vacume high enough for the SD to work.



The reduced base circle cams didn't sound like the right idea to me either, plus I wanted to be able to buy and off the shelf cam and thus keep costs down. Although, I spoke to several very very experienced engine builders / drag racers and they all said there is plenty of stability in the lifters with them and you only run into issues with the reduced base circle cams with higher rpm.

Roller Cams rock, I'm never going back unless I absolutely have to.

Just my $ .02

New engine planning is fun stuff.............
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post #29 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-09-2005, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 408Bronco
No access to the original F4TE 351 block? Or its hurt?
The original is in the truck, the '74 is on a stand. Being that the truck is driven almost everyday, I want a motor that is as drop in as possible for minimal downtime. The motor that is in it is also running pretty decent, so I'm not in a dire hurry, which makes things easier. I also have not seen very many F4TE blocks around me for sale, and most seem to think they have somehting special and want too much for them. It really depends on how much money I have when I get to the point of needing the cam and final parts of the valvetrain. I still need to get the rest of the rotating assembly(rods, pistons, rings) and have the block tanked and all the machining done
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post #30 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-09-2005, 02:01 PM
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isnt the motor i your 96 an f4te block?

94 5.8/E4OD Edelbrock efi intake, jba headers, transgo shift kit. 6" PC stage II, 4.88 gears, front Aussie. Warn HS9500, custom bumper and sliders. RedHead steering and TieRod flip.
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post #31 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-09-2005, 02:09 PM
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Any way to tell from the VIN if it's a late model 93 Bronco? I saw around here that some of them have the F4TE block. Mine was first registered in November 0f 1993, but I do not know when it was built.

EDIT: Oh, duh. Scrolled further down in the PDF of the car fax. Manufactured and shipped to the dealer 7/28/1993.

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post #32 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-10-2005, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston
Hey Fireguy50,
I'm in the process of gathering the parts and $$$ to rebuild my engine. Before I read this thread I wrote to Edelbrock and asked them to give me their recommendations for a cam giving them the following information:

Hello,
I need to rebuild my engine and I am wondering if your technicians could make some recommendations for me on what Cam, Heads, Intake and exhaust manifold package to purchase that would work well together for the following applications.

With the exception of a Mass Air Conversion Kit that I purchased from Ford and a 3" exhaust from the Y-pipe back the truck is completely stock. I use the vehicle as a commuter (10 miles round trip to work and home at 5K feet) and in this environment the stock 302 is sufficient. I live in Colorado and use the vehicle for heading over the mountain passes into the ski country and for hunting in the high country. In this environment the stock 302 is less than adequate to say the least. I think what I am looking for in the end is an engine that has good torque in the low end at low speeds for the trails heading to my hunting camp, good mid-range to climb the steep grades over the passes but sill be able to maintain highway speeds of 75mph. Some of my hunting trips take me to other states so to be able to run comfortably at high speeds for long distances is important as well. The engine currently runs at 2200rpms at 75mph. Here are the current specs on my truck:

Year: 89
Make: Ford
Model: Bronco XLT
Engine: V8 302 EFI
Transmission: AOD
Gears: 3.55

Their response was to use the following cam:

Edelbrock 3722
* Duration at .050 in.: 220 / 220
* Gross valve lift: 0.498 / 0.498
* Lobe separation: 110°

The cam you recommended listed below is in the Edelbrock catalog under a 5.8L V8 so I guess I have 3 questions.
Can you use a cam from a 351 in 302?
If so what kind of difference would I see between the 3722 and the 3782 compared to stock?
And where would these differences be noticed (ie. low end torque, mid-range)?

Good 302/351 EFI cams:

Edelbrock 3782 $170
* Duration at .050 in.: 210 / 216
* Gross valve lift: 0.469 / 0.484
* Lobe separation: 116°

Yes you can use the 351 cam in a 302, all you have to do is change over to the 351/302HO firing order. They obviously didn't research deep enough before answering because if you use the cam they recommended with a LS of 110 deg, your computer will not be happy at all. I have the 3782 in my 351(along with alot of other mods) and it runs like a raped ape. I highly recommend it.

On a side note, I don't mean to be a dick but there is a lot of chit chat going on in this thread that may have started out as cam talk but has gone way beyond. These tech threads aren't supposed to be used as a general discussion.

Bob Kulhanek, My Superford

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post #33 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireguy50

For a good fuel injection truck cam:
intake duration @ 0.50" should be kept at or under 210
Gross valve lift should be kept under 0.500
Lobe seperation should be at or above 114°

Good 302/351 EFI cams:

Comp Cam 35-255-5 $155
* Duration at .050 in.: 210 / 214
* Gross valve lift: 0.478 / 0.485
* Lobe separation: 114°

Edelbrock 3782 $170
* Duration at .050 in.: 210 / 216
* Gross valve lift: 0.469 / 0.484
* Lobe separation: 116°

Crane Cams 444232 $166
* Duration at .050 in.: 206 / 214
* Gross valve lift: 0.448 / 0.464
* Lobe separation: 114°

Good 460 EFI cam:
Comp Cam 34-255-5 $155
* Duration at .050 in.: 212 / 219
* Gross valve lift: 0.490 / 0.495
* Lobe separation: 114°

-------------------------------------------------------

Stock 302
* Duration at .050 in.: 210 / 211
* Gross valve lift: 0.421 / 0.447
* Lobe separation: 116°

Stock 351
* Duration at .050 in.: 206 / 221
* Gross valve lift: 0.440 / 0.450
* Lobe separation: 115°

Lightning
* Duration at .050 in.: 198 / 208
* Gross valve lift: 0.416 / 0.445
* Lobe separation: 114°

Stock 460
* Duration at .050 in.: 193 / 206
* Gross valve lift: 0.438 / 0.459
* Lobe separation: 111°? (unsure at this time)

I think you forgot the nice ones for 300 six efi Summit sells the best kit ever

Comp Cams

CCA-K66-237-4

Brand: COMP Cams
Product Line: COMP Cams High Energy Cam and Lifter Kits
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 1,000-5,000 RPM
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 212
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 212
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 212 int./212 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 260
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 260
Advertised Duration: 260 int./260 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.447 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.447 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.447 int./0.447 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 110
Intake Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Grind Number: F66 260H-10
Computer Controlled Compatible: No
Lifters Included: Yes
Lifter Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Valve Springs Included: Yes
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 1.400 in.
Retainers Included: Yes
Locks Included: Yes
Valve Stem Seals Included: Yes
Timing Chain and Gears Included: Yes
Timing Chain Style: Double non-roller
Assembly Lubricant Included: Yes
Pushrods Included: No
Rocker Arms Included: No
Gaskets Included: No
Quantity: Sold as a kit.

Cam/Lifters/Valvetrain, Hydraulic Flat Tappet, Advertised Duration 260/260, Lift .447/.447, Ford, 240/300, L6

Performance cam and lifter kits for the street.
COMP Cams High Energy cam and lifter kits are designed for street engines with an 8:1 to 9:1 compression ratio. They also work well with all stock components, including intakes, exhaust manifolds, and carburetors. These kits offer good increases in both gas mileage and power throughout the rpm range for most street applications.

I couldnt agree more i love my kit is has served me well
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post #34 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-15-2006, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
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Best 302/351 EFI roller cams:

89-95 Mustang 5.0L HO
Ford Part numbers: E8ZE-6250-CA / F1ZE-6250-AA / F4ZE-6250-DA
* Advertised Duration: 276 / 266
* Duration at .050 in.: 214 / 210
* Gross valve lift: 0.444 / 0.444
* Lobe separation: 115°

Can be found on eBay or Mustang forums cheap
Several 1993-95 Gen 1 Lightnings going 11 sec 1/4 times
Good idle, good torque

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post #35 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-30-2006, 02:18 PM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireguy50 View Post
Best 302/351 EFI roller cams:

89-95 Mustang 5.0L HO
Ford Part numbers: E8ZE-6250-CA / F1ZE-6250-AA / F4ZE-6250-DA
* Advertised Duration: 276 / 266
* Duration at .050 in.: 214 / 210
* Gross valve lift: 0.444 / 0.444
* Lobe separation: 115°

Can be found on eBay or Mustang forums cheap
Several 1993-95 Gen 1 Lightnings going 11 sec 1/4 times
Good idle, good torque

Hi Ryan (and others),

Are there (3) different cams, or are there just (3) different Ford part #'s listed to the same cam (I know Ford revises their part numbers or supercedes them due to vehicle specific applications)??

I was looking for a different cam for my 94 FSB. The truck was and is equipped with the factory Mass Air system. My current 5.0 engine is a 2000 GT40P shortblock (true roller engine too), GT40P heads w/ Cobra 1.7 roller rockers, FMS shorty headers and 3" exhaust.

Is the above Ford cam you list a good low torque cam for an FSB, even though it's a "Mustang cam"? I thought that there are threads on here about NOT using a Mustang cam in a Bronco, due to the Mustang cam not having enough low end torque for say towing capabilities (and being able to properly propel a nearly 5,000+lb truck as opposed to a 3,200lb Mustang)? I do recall seeing/reading many different threads on this site about folks using or wanting to install a Mustang engine, but others chime in saying to change out the cam to something different as it was not "the cam" to use for a Bronco...

Can you (or others) please elaborate more on the "Mustang cam"?

If you feel the above cam is not good for my current setup, what other would you recommend?



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post #36 of 115 (permalink) Old 12-06-2006, 01:03 PM
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If I can put it into easy terms, it would go like this. There is a point where your cam needs duration to run when you reach a certain lift. ANYTHING after about .520, you are going to see a tad more duration show up. Larger than that cams, will have more LSA (lobe seperation angle) which causes power up the RPM band. I would stick with a smaller cam since they keep the duration down, and add a set of 1.7 rockers as you suggest. With my .472 or .482 (cant remember which) and 1.7s I actually have more gross valve lift than I would by running a .512 (very common) cam with 1.6s. Thus adding to the low end. You can also advance your cam up to 4* to gain power down low, BUT I do not think I would go all the way to 4 at first. I would try 2*.

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post #37 of 115 (permalink) Old 07-01-2010, 02:02 AM
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Quick questions:

I noticed all the cams listed are for a 351w and all show computer controlled compatable in the specs. When I look up cams for a 302, some show up for my year ('90), but say they're not computer controlled compatable. What exactly does this mean? Also, just to clarify, the 351 cam will work fine in a 302, just changing the timing order?

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post #38 of 115 (permalink) Old 07-20-2010, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJosho View Post
Quick questions:

I noticed all the cams listed are for a 351w and all show computer controlled compatable in the specs. When I look up cams for a 302, some show up for my year ('90), but say they're not computer controlled compatable. What exactly does this mean?
In basic terms, the intake manifold vacuum (manifold absolute pressure or MAP) will be VERY different than the factory levels. Consequently, the PCM will not accurately calculate load from the MAP signal, making driveability and fuel economy suffer.

As an example, imagine cruising at 55mph, your engine is turning 1500rpm, and your MAP is ~60kPa. The PCM calculates load from the MAP, a few pre-programmed tables, BP, RPM, and ACT. Now imagine you've changed the camshaft; under those original operating conditions, your MAP goes to ~40kPa. Uh oh. Now your load is miscalculated, the fuel injected is incorrect, the spark angle is wrong, and so on.

Another thing to consider with aftermarket cams: the duration is almost always higher, making the power band higher in the operating range. That means getting off the line is going to be more difficult, i.e. slower. This is a miserable situation (voice of experience speaking) since you'll have to punch the accelerator more just to maintain speed in OD, get moving in traffic, wait longer to pass someone, etc.

The factory camshafts aren't bad at all. It should be the very last item to consider changing in a small-block Ford.

Quote:
Also, just to clarify, the 351 cam will work fine in a 302, just changing the timing order?
Yes, but beware of the items previously mentioned. The engine characteristics are different between the two engines, so you really have to know what you're doing to fully understand the effects of using one engine's camshaft in another of different displacement.
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post #39 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-02-2011, 12:34 PM
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so the corral guys say the mustang HO cam is not a good one for the 5.8. They say it moves the power curve too far up the rpm range, and is not at the low end. If one wants a striclty low end cam with a 5.8 and gt40 heads and intake with mustang MAF, what is the best route? Still the mustang cam cause the mustang guys dont know big heavy trucks??

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post #40 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-02-2011, 06:24 PM
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All of these cams are run with the same engine combo: 351w, GT40x heads, SEFI Intake manifold, headers and mufflers. The differences you see are due to cam grind and cam type (Hyd. Flat Tappet vs. Hyd. Roller Tappet).

This is a Hyd. flat tappet cam from Competition Cams, part number 31-255-5, very close to the 35-255-5 both mentioned in this thread. It is very likely that you won't have to tune or change injectors to make this cam work fine if you are not running huge heads.



Stock Stang HO Cam Roller tappet. IMHO the torque is not low enough in the rpm range for a manual tranny and there are better cams out there for our heavy rigs. Though an auto with doubling of torque form the converter and a higher stall will make a bronc move. It is an decent upgrade from the stock flat tappet cams.


This is Cranes Part number 444902 roller cam which I think is a replacement for the Crane cam I run. It is very similar. This cam is Gacknar approved, what he runs and his output.


I'll try to run some more, like stock so you can compare performance increases when going to the aftermarket cams.

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