How to pick a CAMSHAFT for EFI - Page 4 - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #61 of 115 (permalink) Old 10-16-2012, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggies92bronco View Post
Any reason why a lobe seperation of less than 114 cant be used for a speed density truck?
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Originally Posted by KyleQ View Post
Any chance you could run those dyno files with a e303 cam? If not, happen to still have those dyno files? It would be real helpful for re-creating exact comparisons.

My Bronco is setup with a NP435 trans, Atlas 3.8:1, 4.11 gears and 37" boggers. I spend most of my time in high range 1st and 2nd gear, usually mid to upper RPM range - I'm thinking the e303 may help me in that area, but looking at the factory 96' cam I'm curious which will work better. All that torque sure is appealing...
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Originally Posted by yogib View Post
http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/2281/10002/-1 I Ordered this cam today for my future 408w build. Edelbrock #2281 Rolling Thunder series Roller cam.In. 235 Ex. 238 at .050 ,Advertised In. 299 Ex. 302,In. Lift .573 Ex. Lift .583,112 Lobe seperation . Seen the HorsepowerTV build of a 408w with 10:1 comp. Alm. heads,and roller rockers,And a performer rpm intake.I was sold! 468HP and 502 Ft. Lbs. of torque.http://www.powerblocktv.com/player/s..._num=HP2012-11
You all got to remember to read the complete thread. Post #1 states:

"For a good fuel injection truck cam:
intake duration @ 0.50" should be kept at or under 210
Gross valve lift should be kept under 0.500
Lobe seperation should be at or above 114"

The computer controlled EFI does not play well with lobe separation less than 114 without a tune to the EEC. Post #8:

"If anyone buys a higher performance cam than the above limits for a stock truck computer, they will ruin the dependability of the truck. Fuel ratios will be way off, and idle will be so bad the owner will sell the truck."

Perhaps the thread shoud be titled, "How to pick a Cam for EEC controlled EFI Rigs"
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post #62 of 115 (permalink) Old 10-17-2012, 01:19 AM
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I hear ya Swat.And I know this thread is for EFI stock mass air ,or at worst speed density bronco/f-150 stuff. But Ive looked on here before for a cam for aftermarket EFI motors such as mine.Im running the FAST Ez-Efi on my Bronco now and it needs a good amount of vacume as well to run properly. 112 or better lobe centers .So the above cam that I chose should be great for any of us using aftermarket EFI. Especially for the 408. Thats why I included the link to the PowerblockTV build.I figured most would figure it out that the rolling thunder cam WONT work for them on a stock or close to it motor.
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post #63 of 115 (permalink) Old 10-17-2012, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by yogib View Post
I hear ya Swat.And I know this thread is for EFI stock mass air ,or at worst speed density bronco/f-150 stuff. But Ive looked on here before for a cam for aftermarket EFI motors such as mine.Im running the FAST Ez-Efi on my Bronco now and it needs a good amount of vacume as well to run properly. 112 or better lobe centers .So the above cam that I chose should be great for any of us using aftermarket EFI. Especially for the 408. Thats why I included the link to the PowerblockTV build.I figured most would figure it out that the rolling thunder cam WONT work for them on a stock or close to it motor.
Thanks for clarifying your post!
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post #64 of 115 (permalink) Old 10-24-2012, 03:53 PM
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The Lightning cam:
LOBE SEPARATION ANGLE= 114 degrees
VALVE OVERLAP at .050 = -24.4 crank degrees
INTAKE: Valve opening= -12.2 BTDC
LOBE CENTER = 111.1 ATDC so cam has 2.9 degrees advance built in
Valve Closure= 28.4ABDC
DURATION= 196.2 CRANK DEGREES
MAX. LIFT (LOBE)= .25846"
NET VALVE LIFT (1.6 rocker ratio)= .41354"
LOBE AREA= 18.5 IN DEGREES

EXHAUST: VALVE OPENING= 40.4 BBDC
LOBE CENTER 116.8 BTDC
VALVE CLOSURE= -12.2ATDC
DURATION= 208.2 DEGREES
MAX. LIFT (LOBE)= .27634"
NET VALVE LIFT= .44214"(1.6 ratio)
LOBE AREA= 20.67"


F4TE roller cam, '94+ truck and Explorer

256/266 adv duration
0.422/0.448" lift with 1.6 rockers.
203/216 dur at 0.050"
106 ICL 126 ECL

Valve timing seat to seat
IVO 22 IVC 54
EVO 79 EVC 7

Valve timing 0.050"
IVO -4.5 IVC 27.5
EVO 42 EVC -6
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post #65 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-10-2012, 12:25 PM
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i dont know much about cams. are the cams listed good for a stock 96 302 with MAF? or are there better cams avalible because of the MAF? i know it probably wont be worth repalcing it without doing any intake heads or exhaust but would like to know. i want as much torque as i can out of the 302 for offroading


-----96 5.0 E4OD--------------88 5.8 C6--------------96 5.8 E4OD------
---------KIA-------------------Mud/Trail---------------Daily Driver------
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post #66 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 12:41 PM
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I picked-up DD2003 and it is more accurate. When I get a chance I will rerun the combos and add some flat tappet cams.


The 96 roller cam is actually pretty good.

Here are some Desktop Dyno 2000 Runs with the same engine, a 351W, GT40 heads, small tube headers, same intake flow and SEFI fuel injection. Note that DD2000 is optimistic by about 13%, so 400ftlbs becomes 348. Note that there is little improvement over the stock 96 roller cam and that horsepower improvement for the comp 35-312-8 and HO are gained up high in the RPM range but some HP and much torque is sacrificed on the low end. Also note that all of these cams allow the engine to run with your stock computer with MAF. There is some confusion in prior threads I have read. Yes, the HO or Comps 35-312-8 would be an improvement from a stock flat tappet cam, but wouldn't be my choice for a roller cam to get these big heavy rigs moving. Where do you want the power, lower end or higher end? It seems to me that lower effective gearing, taking in to account tire size, than stock gearing and a higher stall torque converter might favor the higher rpm cams. that's common in Mustangs but not our rigs.

Bigger heads, headers with free flowing exhaust, and aftermarket intake could very well require bigger - injectors, MAF, throttle body and tune to get the most out of it. You need to fuel it properly for the power your making. A 19lb injector will support 250 horses at an 80% duty cycle. You are pushing it too much beyond that and that is another reason I prefer the cams that produce more torque down low. At 305HP you are maxing-out the injectors. As you can see below, several cams do that as shown below, but these power numbers are overestimated for these builds in DD2000. I also think many have gotten away with maxing-out the injectors because it is only for a short time when hitting the higher RPMs and I believe the injector calcs to be conservative.


Compare 'em!

HO:


Ford F4TE (stock 96 roller cam):


Crane 2031:


Crane 325-2s-12:


Crane 2020:


Crane HR-220 332-2S2-14:
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post #67 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 04:30 PM
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i see. the stock roller is decent in low end. im gonig to be rebuilding my engine and keep it stock. wanted to know if a cam would be good while im at it. theres a possibility of me doing the GT40 heads if i ever make it to a junkyard and find a good set cheap. thats unlikley


-----96 5.0 E4OD--------------88 5.8 C6--------------96 5.8 E4OD------
---------KIA-------------------Mud/Trail---------------Daily Driver------
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post #68 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 08:58 PM
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I'm running an HO cam and after I installed it, I read that you could advance the cam a few degrees t bring the power band into lower RPM. I tore it back apart, then advanced the cam 4 degrees (via the distributor gear), and I had quite a noticeable difference. It definitely has more power in the lower end, I haven't had it dyno'd at all or anything like that, I will be after I buy a few other things for the motor. I came from a stock flat tappet cam, so the new cam made a huge difference over stock.

89 F-150 5.0l AOD 2x4 Longbed, 3.55 LS 80,XXX Original Miles, GT40Ps, Roller, MAF, Custom Y-pipe, Mustang headers, 3g Alt, Big 3+ Upgrade, Rerouted PCV, Dual Taurus E-fans, Sixlitre Tune-up, Explorer Injectors, Remote mounted ICM, Insulated Intake tubing\Filter Box Mod, Rubber Vacuum System, Tranny cooler, Remote Tranny filter, Saginaw P\S swap, F350 MC\Booster\Rear clyinders, Autopage Remote Start, 9007 conversion, so much more.
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post #69 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 10:41 PM
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4.10 gearing and stock tires will allow the engine to spin-up faster and a cam that makes more power up high could have a bit of an advantage. The same effect is had with a higher stall torque converter or a low first gear like in the 4R70W Auot vs the AOD or a Zf 5 speed vs the M5OD.

Advancing the cam four degrees means that the valves open four degrees sooner but they also close four degrees sooner. It does not add duration so does not make big difference. It is easily done though and will add a bit more torque down low.

351W GT40 cam and heads:


Same, cam advanced 4 degrees:
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post #70 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 10:40 PM
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efi cam

Would the comp XE268H cam wwork well with a 302 SD? I herd of a guy runing it in a 351 SD and it runs ok?
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post #71 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-18-2013, 02:01 PM
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Any ideas why the HO cam would be down 75 ft-lbs compared to the others? That is a huge difference. I would have anticipated a 10-20 ft-lb difference at most.

'91 EB FSB, 5.8/E4OD, 4" Lift (start date Feb 2012)
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post #72 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-12-2013, 07:08 PM
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351W small block efi build

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...lock_with_efi/

Back in 1998 when people were less interested in forums and chatting online and more interested in performance, this article came out. I recently found it again. It is an awesome resource for anyone building up an engine, since it lists specific parts and is tried and true.

Best parts...

87 octane, 11:1 compression ratio, 400hp at 5k rpm and 450 lb-ft torque at 4k rpm. EEC-IV ecm!!!

http://www.supermotors.net/vehicles/registry/10453

1996 XLT 5.8L E4OD, D44 SAS with Spool and Alloy USA Shafts, D60FF 30spl rear, 4.88 gears
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post #73 of 115 (permalink) Old 08-16-2013, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AxlesofEvil View Post
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...lock_with_efi/

Back in 1998 when people were less interested in forums and chatting online and more interested in performance, this article came out. I recently found it again. It is an awesome resource for anyone building up an engine, since it lists specific parts and is tried and true.

Best parts...

87 octane, 11:1 compression ratio, 400hp at 5k rpm and 450 lb-ft torque at 4k rpm. EEC-IV ecm!!!
great article, showing that even with mass-air it still must be tuned. for SD the challenge remains.

94 5.8/E4OD Edelbrock efi intake, jba headers, transgo shift kit. 6" PC stage II, 4.88 gears, front Aussie. Warn HS9500, custom bumper and sliders. RedHead steering and TieRod flip.
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post #74 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-13-2013, 04:34 AM
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Good info.

Curious on how a tfs stage 1 cam will hold up with tfs 170 heads and a 2500 stall. In a truck.
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post #75 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-20-2013, 08:16 PM
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I have a 1990 Bronco with the 302 stock. What camshaft do you recomend? I want some power and i like the noise it makes (street legal).

Thanks,
Mike
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post #76 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-29-2013, 05:57 PM
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Great thread with a lot of info. I'm going to go with the comp cams grind for my rebuild. My combo as follows: gt40 heads port matched to the edelbrock efi truck intake with bbk throttle body DSS 393 stroker kit. SUP?! I want low end torque to tow my SSP stang to the track.

r
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post #77 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-03-2013, 12:23 PM
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Does anyone have experience with the 266hr comp cam? I'm closing in on an inevitable rebuild and was going to spice her up with gt40 heads, bore, intake and exhaust and was told this can would make good low end grunt and is SD friendly

1990 5.8l w/ford reman E4OD. Stock 3.55 gears. F250 SD pcm, 6Litre tune up, and 4 hole injector upgrade. TOTALLED at 300,251 on the motor, a dying oil pump and 93k on the transmission. 6" lift on 35's...she will live again...

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post #78 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-23-2014, 03:08 AM
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so this is the cam I have in a 351w.

CCA-35-235-3
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cc...view/make/ford

I made the engine carbed when I rebuilt it but now im going to go ahead and make it EFI again with MAF from a 96. I wanna know if the cam is alright to use without needing tuning. the engine will have gt40p heads if that makes any difference


-----96 5.0 E4OD--------------88 5.8 C6--------------96 5.8 E4OD------
---------KIA-------------------Mud/Trail---------------Daily Driver------
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post #79 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-24-2014, 10:00 AM
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Should be fine with Mass-Air.

Speed-Density would not work with it.

86 Bronco - 357W/AOD - 6" suspension lift, 3" body lift - 38" TSL Radials - 456:1 Gears
Sequential Multiport Mass-Air Fuel Injection from a 93 Mustang GT

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post #80 of 115 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 03:21 AM
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I found a 5.0 roller cam that should work well with speed density,valve lift is a little high according the the guidelines but not off by much,lsa and duration look good. 35-308-8 http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...csid=1048&sb=2

Basic Operating RPM Range:1,200-5,200
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift:210
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift:215
Advertised Intake Duration:266
Advertised Exhaust Duration:270
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.533 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.533 in.
Lobe Separation (degrees):114
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