Rethinking My SAS - Page 16 - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #301 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 08:34 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shadofax View Post
That's kinda been my thought as well. I probably should not have mentioned DOT legal as this became a distraction. TRE's if you get a cutaway usually are a hardened steel ball encased in the tie rod outer steel. They are greasable and internally they ride on a hard "plastic or Teflon" surface that (at lease with moog) has a few flutes that allow the grease to get around inside and around that sleeve. A rod end can have a Teflon liner, but I believe it's much thinner. Net is with a TRE boot I think too they will ride quieter, but also smoother, adding a small ability for deflection.

Since this thread I've thought about changing out my upper trackbar rod end to a poly bushing, leaving just the lower rod end. Would allow a bit of deflection vs. none now, and may help soften the vibe over rutted and bumpy roads as this bar transmits directly from axle to frame.
I don't think the DOT side bar has taken away from the conversation..

without a doubt the ball joint set up Boulder is selling would give a smoother ride, but I'm already down the rod end path..

So you don't have any bushings at all on your track bar?? Yeah, I would think adding that would make a pretty big difference.
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post #302 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post

So you don't have any bushings at all on your track bar?? Yeah, I would think adding that would make a pretty big difference.
The problem with a bushing in the track bar is the movement that the bushing provides. If the bushing is to large it can/will end up allowing a lot of movement in the track bar which then causes handling problems and potentially death wobble. The smaller the bushing the better so there is not as much rubber to allow movement. I personally rather use rod ends on both sides since I don't mind a slight bit of noise (if any at all) and it keeps the suspension that much tighter.

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post #303 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderBronco View Post
The problem with a bushing in the track bar is the movement that the bushing provides. If the bushing is to large it can/will end up allowing a lot of movement in the track bar which then causes handling problems and potentially death wobble. The smaller the bushing the better so there is not as much rubber to allow movement. I personally rather use rod ends on both sides since I don't mind a slight bit of noise (if any at all) and it keeps the suspension that much tighter.
Yep, it's been a long time since I did this, and so the other night when I was getting serious about this I did some searching again, and bulletproof steering came up with an opinion on 1 bushing. Generally bushings create softness, which can also create the death wobble. If I were to do this it likely would be a good idea to just do one side and do poly, and have the poly thickness minimal just as you state.

I still would not mind trying this, but I have not found a bushing that works for me.....has to be 3/4" for the bolt and a male threaded 3/4-16 not sure but I guess I can use standard thread (vs. reverse), width max. 1.5".

This is close to what I need:

http://steinjager.com/shop/index.php...oduct_id=15853

I actually would prefer a male bushing like this like what I bought from ballistic fab (for my tire rack in the back), but they don't have this size. That bushing has a hardened steel body that is one piece including threads. I don't believe from what I see that the threads were mig welded on.

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Last edited by Shadofax; 01-08-2017 at 04:38 PM. Reason: link to poly bushings
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post #304 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BoulderBronco View Post
The problem with a bushing in the track bar is the movement that the bushing provides. If the bushing is to large it can/will end up allowing a lot of movement in the track bar which then causes handling problems and potentially death wobble. The smaller the bushing the better so there is not as much rubber to allow movement. I personally rather use rod ends on both sides since I don't mind a slight bit of noise (if any at all) and it keeps the suspension that much tighter.
Good point..I'm using the energy suspension poly bushings on my track bar and it seems pretty tight..Don't notice a whole lot of movement and I definitely do not have any issues with death wobble.

Still haven't found the source of the popping..I've tightened every bolt there is to tighten and looked for cracks and any anything that looks loose..nothing..

Going to put the front up on stands this weekend and have someone turn the steering to see if I can isolate it..not sure why I didn't think of that sooner.
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post #305 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 08:56 AM Thread Starter
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Earlier last week I swapped out the old rod end with these new ones from Ruff Stuff. These are 3/4 x 3/4 - 16, and were than $20 a piece. Can't beat the price and they feel like they're pretty well made..






The slop in the old ends was unbelievable so there was definitely an improved feel in the steering, just a bit tighter.





Of course I was able to get all of the old rod ends off but the last one..it decided to put up a fight..the jam nut finally yielded to a cheater bar..







It didn't do anything to help with the popping sound, but for some reason the slight pull to the right is much less perceptable.
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post #306 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 03:32 PM
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since its so persistent maybe its not suspension? could it be drive live , u-joint, wheel bearing? Cracked bearing race?


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post #307 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bob G View Post
since its so persistent maybe its not suspension? could it be drive live , u-joint, wheel bearing? Cracked bearing race?
Bearings are new..like within the last 6 months..

I'm thinking it's a camber issue. Going to take it up to a tire place just to find out for sure. haven't had the time.
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post #308 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 10:21 AM
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i know you'll get it figured out. Still my fav bronco !


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post #309 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 12:32 PM
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That tie rod looks a bit long. Maxed out on both ends. Don't think that has anything to do with it just wondering if your able to get your toe set correctly with it like that.

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post #310 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 09:11 PM
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Time to mount the camera on the way to the alignment shop. Hopefully it'll make the noise on the way there. Maybe try a different location to help focus on the rt/ft spring.
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post #311 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bob G View Post
i know you'll get it figured out. Still my fav bronco !
Thanks man..

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderBronco View Post
That tie rod looks a bit long. Maxed out on both ends. Don't think that has anything to do with it just wondering if your able to get your toe set correctly with it like that.
You're right, noticed that when I installed new rod ends on and this tie rod is shorter than the one I had before...you can see the ends are fully seated, so really no adjustement in them...probably need to have the tie rod cut down another inch..maybe that is the source of the pull with toe not being right..

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Originally Posted by Green Turd View Post
Time to mount the camera on the way to the alignment shop. Hopefully it'll make the noise on the way there. Maybe try a different location to help focus on the rt/ft spring.
yeah, that is next on the list..it really does sound like the spring is popping or moving around in the the keeper..I lubed the hell out of it to see if that makes any difference but haven't driven it since..
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post #312 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 10:46 AM
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from what i have learned, toe doesn't affect wheels pulling or drifting. Its caster or camber. Don't remember which or both....


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post #313 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob G View Post
from what i have learned, toe doesn't affect wheels pulling or drifting. Its caster or camber. Don't remember which or both....
Toe will make your tires wear fast. The wheels will naturally want to center when going down the road so depending on how the toe is your steering wheel may be off center. It won't cause pulling. Caster is rarely a concern, and will not cause pulling. The C bushings are what control caster in this application.
Camber will cause a drift, But I'm not sure you can adjust it on a SFA. You really shouldn't need to unless something is bent either.

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post #314 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 08:25 AM Thread Starter
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I'm pretty sure the axle isn't bent and I don't have any symptoms of bad caster. planning to get it up to a tire shop and will find out for sure. what the camber is, then if needed I'll slap one of these spindle shims on to correct.

that should be pretty easy.

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post #315 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 07:24 PM
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Rethinking My SAS

Toe out is what causes your steering to follow cracks and lines in the road. Camber helps steering return to center. 2-4 degrees is all you need. The less you have the smoother it will ride. Tape measure, tape and a marker. And set it yourself.
Very easy

That's caster not camber.
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post #316 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-21-2017, 06:41 PM
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Sorry but gotta jump in here, to much mis-information.
Caster is always a concern, especially on a lifted truck with large tires. If your caster is not set properly the truck will wander all over the place. The problem with setting caster is the more caster you set the worse the pinion angle. But caster is more important than pinion angle so set it where it drives best. Or do a cut and turn, but most aren't going to those lengths.
Second point, camber does not effect the steering returning to center. Steering return to center is effected by caster angle. If you caster angle is to low, it will not return to center and wander. Again, proper caster angle is very important to get your truck to drive as best as possible.

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post #317 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-21-2017, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
I'm pretty sure the axle isn't bent and I don't have any symptoms of bad caster. planning to get it up to a tire shop and will find out for sure. what the camber is, then if needed I'll slap one of these spindle shims on to correct.

that should be pretty easy.

These are pretty nice, where did you find them?

Are you having tire wear issues?

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post #318 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-21-2017, 10:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderBronco View Post
Sorry but gotta jump in here, to much mis-information.
Caster is always a concern, especially on a lifted truck with large tires. If your caster is not set properly the truck will wander all over the place. The problem with setting caster is the more caster you set the worse the pinion angle. But caster is more important than pinion angle so set it where it drives best. Or do a cut and turn, but most aren't going to those lengths.
Second point, camber does not effect the steering returning to center. Steering return to center is effected by caster angle. If you caster angle is to low, it will not return to center and wander. Again, proper caster angle is very important to get your truck to drive as best as possible.
Thanks for clearing that up..didn't sound right based on everything else I've been reading.I do not have a caster problem. The c-bushings I have are correct for the amount of lift and extended R/A's. no issue with return to center

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadofax View Post
These are pretty nice, where did you find them?

Are you having tire wear issues?
those are from Bronco Graveyard..$39 a pop, seems reasonable. No tire wear issues, when I had it up at the shop a couple months ago getting the beads put in, the guy said the tires looked like they were wearing fine.
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post #319 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
I don't think the DOT side bar has taken away from the conversation..

without a doubt the ball joint set up Boulder is selling would give a smoother ride, but I'm already down the rod end path..

So you don't have any bushings at all on your track bar?? Yeah, I would think adding that would make a pretty big difference.
Just the Teflon lined RE's. But I have to agree with Boulder.....I can't help but love how this truck handles, the track bar allows NO slop side to side, and the dual shocks up front now handle the large coil flex. And now I have smaller 35" tires on 17" rims, so the handling is amazing. I have this hairpin corner I love to take, I come in about 30mph and once the front end "sets" in the corner I continue to gas through the corner. I had a new ford F150 lifted come up on me into that corner, and when I left the corner he was well behind me. Don't know how to explain it other than the truck body rolls a bit with those long coils and no stabilizer bars, sets with the dual front shocks and track bar allows no movement side to side, and we go. It's soft at first, then gets taught and set in the corner.

Going to leave the trackbar RE's alone, I like how it is.

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post #320 of 359 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 12:43 AM
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Boulder bronco you are correct I didn't even notice the auto spell put camber in instead of caster. I guess i should have proof read before I hit the send button.


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