Rethinking My SAS - Page 2 - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #21 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
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Rep, thanks for the input. This is definitely just an on off throttle thing. Under normal cruising conditions it goes down the road great..So are you saying the rear axle isn't straight under the rig?

I guess there are really two problems here, and I think we've established that the pulling is primarily related to the detroit in the rear and could possibly be compounded by the axles not being parallel along with the uneven wear that has already occurred with the tire.

Can we agree that none of those issues would cause the uneven tire wear, then if so I'm looking at a negative camber/toe problem, so I need to get a tire shop to pull some #'s for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by reptillikus View Post
My votes goes to the detroit rear. Mine always pulled a bit to the right when i let off and it unloaded, but it became more pronounced with the shackle flip.

I think my D60 was bent when i installed it, as when i was done rebuilding/installing it, the camber on the passenger side was off by 2, which made it pull to the right. A spindle shim fixed this, but i knew there was an issue right away, because it always pulled to the right, it wasnt just an on/off throttle thing, which is why im thinking your problem is in the rear. If one axle isnt straight underneath the truck id expect it to pull harder the faster you go, but all the time, not just when youre coasting. Same thing if one axle is shifted to the side; sure itll crab-walk, but it should do it all the time, not just decelerating.


Im with Dan, being able to see the alignment results would be nice.
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post #22 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 09:43 AM
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Well, id say that the pulling when decelerating is coming from the detroit, its a common thing. Rear axle im sure is fine, its rare for that to be off unless you moved the spring brackets on the frame.
As for your tire wear, id definitely get an alignment done by somebody who understands that it is not the stock suspension under your truck so that they follow the proper vehicle specs, and then post up what the results are. Theyll probably do it anyway, but get them to do a full 4-wheel alignment just make sure both axles are in their correct locations relative to the frame.
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post #23 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 09:56 AM Thread Starter
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Alright that makes sense. I'm going to take it back to the shop this weekend and have them get me the numbers. Has anyone ordered from CAGE recently I saw a few threads from a week or two ago but nothing recently and I can't get to their website, I'm seriously interested in taking a look at their arms. Thanks.
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post #24 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 10:14 AM
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i agree with what's been said here the detroit in the rear will give you the pulling issues. I have one and soft leaves on the back and I have the same on off throttle response you are refering to. If you are like me and most others that have done the sas you did it for offroad capability and not road use that's why I did mine and I will just deal with it.

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post #25 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
Alright that makes sense. I'm going to take it back to the shop this weekend and have them get me the numbers. Has anyone ordered from CAGE recently I saw a few threads from a week or two ago but nothing recently and I can't get to their website, I'm seriously interested in taking a look at their arms. Thanks.
Website works fine for me.

I spoke to Jim personally about two weeks ago, and he had told me that they are crazy busy, however he still managed to get me my parts in about two weeks time, and even told me about the FSB discount Worst case, give em a call and leave a message, he said its taking some time, but they are getting back to everyone.
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post #26 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 12:27 PM
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Explain to the alignment guy that you want measurements of vehicle symmetry/setback and axle offset. If you don't tell them, they will probably just give you a basic printout, that will include thrust angle, but no offset. They have to push a couple of extra buttons to get it to measure offset and setback.

So how does this detroit pull work? When you let off the gas and the locker disengages, it will pull, and then it stops pulling as you coast?
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post #27 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Theman View Post
So how does this detroit pull work? When you let off the gas and the locker disengages, it will pull, and then it stops pulling as you coast?
The reasons a Detroit/locker would cause pulling would be either tires that are not exactly the same diameter (PSI different?) or the rear axle isn't exactly perpendicular to the frame. You would only feel the effects when the locker is engaged when power is applied.
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post #28 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
Here are some more pics.. I got the Detroit after the SAS.

Shot from the front

[IMG][/IMG]
your drag link and track bar are not parrell from that picture. I would get a drop pitman of 2" less and see how it looks.

how ever I highly doubt thats the push pull stuff. Like rep said, it is probably the detroit pulling to the right.

double check your air pressure in the rear.

if it still does it, flip left and right rear tires and see what happens.

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post #29 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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I'll have to check the tire PSI, I can't see how the rear axle wouldn't be perpendicular with the frame, when I put the new springs in, everything went back in the same location.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustball View Post
The reasons a Detroit/locker would cause pulling would be either tires that are not exactly the same diameter (PSI different?) or the rear axle isn't exactly perpendicular to the frame. You would only feel the effects when the locker is engaged when power is applied.
That's a good point, I think that was a 4 inch drop pitman are and your right from the pic it does look too long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jopes View Post
your drag link and track bar are not parrell from that picture. I would get a drop pitman of 2" less and see how it looks.

how ever I highly doubt thats the push pull stuff. Like rep said, it is probably the detroit pulling to the right.

double check your air pressure in the rear.

if it still does it, flip left and right rear tires and see what happens.
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post #30 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustball View Post
The reasons a Detroit/locker would cause pulling would be either tires that are not exactly the same diameter (PSI different?) or the rear axle isn't exactly perpendicular to the frame. You would only feel the effects when the locker is engaged when power is applied.
So it could only cause pull on the throttle, and not off the throttle? A couple of people have said that they thought the detroit was causing his off throttle pull. I've never driven a locked truck (yet) so all this is new to me. It seems to me that the truck would pull off throttle (either due to alignment or a bad tire), but maybe on throttle the detroit pull cancels out the other pull. Am I making sense?
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post #31 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 02:31 PM
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he is knowticing the pull more than the push. it is just one of the quirks about the detroit, when you let off you knowtice the pull alot more than the slight push.

Jer, go measure hub to hub on both passenger side and driver side. if your passenger side front is farther forward that the driver front, this could be the cause of the tire wear.

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post #32 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
I can't see how the rear axle wouldn't be perpendicular with the frame, when I put the new springs in, everything went back in the same location.


I've seen rear axles shift and break the center pins if the u-bolts aren't hand torqued (an impact gun won't do it) but that make it dog walk down the road and give you a crooked steering wheel.
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post #33 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jopes View Post
he is knowticing the pull more than the push. it is just one of the quirks about the detroit, when you let off you knowtice the pull alot more than the slight push.

Jer, go measure hub to hub on both passenger side and driver side. if your passenger side front is farther forward that the driver front, this could be the cause of the tire wear.
so the detroit isn't the cause of his problem?
how could a crooked axle cause wear?
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post #34 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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Jopes you mean from the front hub to the rear hub, or middle of the rear tire??

Quote:
Originally Posted by jopes View Post
he is knowticing the pull more than the push. it is just one of the quirks about the detroit, when you let off you knowtice the pull alot more than the slight push.

Jer, go measure hub to hub on both passenger side and driver side. if your passenger side front is farther forward that the driver front, this could be the cause of the tire wear.
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post #35 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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Well I know these were hand torqued, I did them myself and I definitely don't have a crooked steering wheel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Theman View Post
I've seen rear axles shift and break the center pins if the u-bolts aren't hand torqued (an impact gun won't do it) but that make it dog walk down the road and give you a crooked steering wheel.
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post #36 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Theman View Post
so the detroit isn't the cause of his problem?
how could a crooked axle cause wear?
no the detroit is most likely the pull to the right when he lets off the gas.

just trying to figure out the tire wear as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
Jopes you mean from the front hub to the rear hub, or middle of the rear tire??
your trying to get the wheel base on both sides of the vechile to be sure they are the same.

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post #37 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jopes View Post
he is knowticing the pull more than the push. it is just one of the quirks about the detroit, when you let off you knowtice the pull alot more than the slight push.

Jer, go measure hub to hub on both passenger side and driver side. if your passenger side front is farther forward that the driver front, this could be the cause of the tire wear.
You're assuming his front alignment is good. He has to be able to count on having the steering wheel dead straight, and in turn having the front tires pointing dead straight with only a bit of toe in. If that's not the case, (passenger tire is wearing more than the other tire), it's going to be hard to accurately measure wheelbase side to side.

I'd start first with some basic in the garage alignment checking. Or just take it in and have a shop look all this over.

and Jeremy, you should be able to go with a stock pitman, that's what I used.

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post #38 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Shadofax View Post
You're assuming his front alignment is good. He has to be able to count on having the steering wheel dead straight, and in turn having the front tires pointing dead straight with only a bit of toe in. If that's not the case, (passenger tire is wearing more than the other tire), it's going to be hard to accurately measure wheelbase side to side.


then measure from axle tube to axle tube. this will remove the steering from the equation.

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post #39 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 04:39 PM
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Jeremy pm Gunter he has my stock pitman arm that is drilled for a 3/4 hiem try it out and see if it will work for you.

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post #40 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, I'll check with him sometime this week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by badass1tonf100 View Post
Jeremy pm Gunter he has my stock pitman arm that is drilled for a 3/4 hiem try it out and see if it will work for you.
Here are the pics of the tire wear, this is about the best I can do, the first is the passenger side, you can clearly see the difference in wear.



This is the drivers side you can see how much more evenly its wearing.



To test the theory about the axle possibly not being parallel, I got some string and ran it from the left side of the (drivers side)pumpkin to the rear axle tube got a measurment of 104 inches, did the same measurement on the passenger side of the front and real axles and got 102 and 1/2 inches, granted this was probably not the most scientific method for measuring but clearly the drivers side is out in front of the passenger side by about an inch and a half.
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