Rethinking My SAS - Page 3 - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #41 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
To test the theory about the axle possibly not being parallel, I got some string and ran it from the left side of the (drivers side)pumpkin to the rear axle tube got a measurment of 104 inches, did the same measurement on the passenger side of the front and real axles and got 102 and 1/2 inches, granted this was probably not the most scientific method for measuring but clearly the drivers side is out in front of the passenger side by about an inch and a half.
That's a significant amount. It'll constantly want to travel in an arc to the right. Now the trick is to figure out what needs to move where. I'd measure from known similar points on the frame to the axle tubes. Most likely using the nubs sticking down from the bottom of the frame rails.
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post #42 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Dustball View Post
That's a significant amount. It'll constantly want to travel in an arc to the right. Now the trick is to figure out what needs to move where. I'd measure from known similar points on the frame to the axle tubes. Most likely using the nubs sticking down from the bottom of the frame rails.
yea.

If it can be confirmed the rear axle is straight compared with frame, then of course it's the front setup.

with this in mind, back to the tire pics, did you say you only have like 5k on your tires?

Edit: As an FYI Jeremy, the cage arms with heim would be nice at this point since if you are off by 1+" inches, well, just another reason to ditch those RA brackets you have and go with cage RA's, carefully measure as to where to put the frame mounts, and even then, the heim on each side will let you "fine tune" your setup......I don't know if you remember me mentioning that I just re-did my C bushings...well I took the opportunity to measure my wheelbase and adjust via heim 1 turn out passenger, 1 turn in driver (combined though, with the thread per inch on these, this only equates to a total change of just under 1/4").

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post #43 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 10:32 AM Thread Starter
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I agree, I'm going to take you rec and do that this weekend. Where on the axle tube would be the best place to measure to?

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Originally Posted by Dustball View Post
That's a significant amount. It'll constantly want to travel in an arc to the right. Now the trick is to figure out what needs to move where. I'd measure from known similar points on the frame to the axle tubes. Most likely using the nubs sticking down from the bottom of the frame rails.

Yes, my tires actually have less than 5K on them. The rears look almost brandnew compared to the front.

I agree about the cage arms. My main concern is knowing what my limitations are with all things suspension related, and recognizing that I need someone with more knowledge than me to do the actual work. If it were mechanical that would be a different story. You guys have provided a lot of useful info that has definitely gotten me further than where I was before.

I'm trying to come to grips with the prospect of spending $800 or so dollars on the Cage arms rather than just fixing what I have. The fact that the Cages are adjustable is really attractive, but for the amount I wheel this thing it may not be worth the price.

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yea.

If it can be confirmed the rear axle is straight compared with frame, then of course it's the front setup.

with this in mind, back to the tire pics, did you say you only have like 5k on your tires?

Edit: As an FYI Jeremy, the cage arms with heim would be nice at this point since if you are off by 1+" inches, well, just another reason to ditch those RA brackets you have and go with cage RA's, carefully measure as to where to put the frame mounts, and even then, the heim on each side will let you "fine tune" your setup......I don't know if you remember me mentioning that I just re-did my C bushings...well I took the opportunity to measure my wheelbase and adjust via heim 1 turn out passenger, 1 turn in driver (combined though, with the thread per inch on these, this only equates to a total change of just under 1/4").
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post #44 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 11:28 AM
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i have a sneaking suspicion that your radius arm brackets are just in the wrong spot. i'm assuming that you're not completely useless with a measuring tape, but i would want to get the axle in the right spot before i go spending $800 on a new set of arms you don't even need.

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post #45 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 11:30 AM
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I can tell you Jeremy, that is crazy bad wear on those tires. Your tires basically look like my fronts do (I never rotated either), but, I got around 21k on my fronts (which I still consider mediocre compared with the rear).

You've really been getting bad scrub on those fronts. Not just unusual wear, but also the whole wear down that much with so few miles.

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post #46 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
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I think you're probably right, and thanks for the vote of confidence.. I definitely don't want to go dropping that kind of $$ if I don't need to, at this point I'm going to need it for tires.

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Originally Posted by Andy351 View Post
i have a sneaking suspicion that your radius arm brackets are just in the wrong spot. i'm assuming that you're not completely useless with a measuring tape, but i would want to get the axle in the right spot before i go spending $800 on a new set of arms you don't even need.
That's what I was afraid, it's a good thing the Bronco doesn't see too many mile otherwise they would probably be bald by now.

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Originally Posted by Shadofax View Post
I can tell you Jeremy, that is crazy bad wear on those tires. Your tires basically look like my fronts do (I never rotated either), but, I got around 21k on my fronts (which I still consider mediocre compared with the rear).

You've really been getting bad scrub on those fronts. Not just unusual wear, but also the whole wear down that much with so few miles.
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post #47 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
Thanks, I'll check with him sometime this week.



Here are the pics of the tire wear, this is about the best I can do, the first is the passenger side, you can clearly see the difference in wear.



This is the drivers side you can see how much more evenly its wearing.



To test the theory about the axle possibly not being parallel, I got some string and ran it from the left side of the (drivers side)pumpkin to the rear axle tube got a measurment of 104 inches, did the same measurement on the passenger side of the front and real axles and got 102 and 1/2 inches, granted this was probably not the most scientific method for measuring but clearly the drivers side is out in front of the passenger side by about an inch and a half.
Just so you can get an idea, here's 1 of my fronts after 21k:



Trust me, it's still not wearing "evenly" in how it's wearing, but I really plan to rotate my tires this time around, that will make a big difference. Main thing I wanted to show you is that you actually have worn your tire farther after 5k than I did in 21k, so it's got to be scrubbing/dragging badly, something is bad off up front.

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post #48 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 04:39 PM
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with the passenger side being back 1.5" your passenger side tire is scrubbing the pavement when your driving. because your being forced to turn left to go straight.

'01 F250, 444ci of straight piped oil burning fun. 4x4, 6 spd, GTP38R noise maker, Stage 2 injektorz. Lotsa fun!


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post #49 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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I can totally see what you're talking about now.. I definitely need to get this straightened out, literally.
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post #50 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
I can totally see what you're talking about now.. I definitely need to get this straightened out, literally.
I am drafting up your bill now. Where shall I send it?

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post #51 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
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That makes complete sense to me now.

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with the passenger side being back 1.5" your passenger side tire is scrubbing the pavement when your driving. because your being forced to turn left to go straight.
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post #52 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustball View Post
That's a significant amount. It'll constantly want to travel in an arc to the right. Now the trick is to figure out what needs to move where. I'd measure from known similar points on the frame to the axle tubes. Most likely using the nubs sticking down from the bottom of the frame rails.
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Originally Posted by jopes View Post
with the passenger side being back 1.5" your passenger side tire is scrubbing the pavement when your driving. because your being forced to turn left to go straight.
If this were a non steering axle you guys would be correct. In this case, a crooked front in itself won't cause wear, or pulling.
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post #53 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 06:08 PM
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Dan, draw yourself a picture, I am fairly confident this is whats causing his tire wear.

in order for him to go straight he has to turn the wheel a little to the left all the time. this puts the passenger side tire scrubbing the pavement all the time.

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post #54 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jopes View Post
Dan, draw yourself a picture, I am fairly confident this is whats causing his tire wear.

in order for him to go straight he has to turn the wheel a little to the left all the time. this puts the passenger side tire scrubbing the pavement all the time.
Jopes, while I agree this is likely the cause, it's not because of the steering always being turned.....this is how I visualize it:


I
--------I




I-------I


So going straight, it can be going straight in the front, just by aligning the front wheels...toe and straight forward on the tires. However, with any turning and a front axle not being parallel, every time you turn I can see a lot of added problems with tire wear up front.

And again, back to the whole detroit pull discussion, I'd think that an uneven wheelbase would accentuate the rear detroit pull to one side as well.

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post #55 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 07:20 PM
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jer, if you need help fixing this, let me know.
also, summit racing has those tires cheaper than anybody around here that i could find. they only charged 9 bucks extra a tire to ship them.

i hope to have mine done this weekend. we need to start wheeling again.

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post #56 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHead View Post
jer, if you need help fixing this, let me know.
also, summit racing has those tires cheaper than anybody around here that i could find. they only charged 9 bucks extra a tire to ship them.

i hope to have mine done this weekend. we need to start wheeling again.
Count me in Alan

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post #57 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Jopes, sending you my address now..

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I am drafting up your bill now. Where shall I send it?
Alan, if this is something you think we could easily do in the driveway that would be great. You going to be up in Jax any time soon..I definitely don't want to be taking any long trips with the steering the way it is.

Quote:
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jer, if you need help fixing this, let me know.
also, summit racing has those tires cheaper than anybody around here that i could find. they only charged 9 bucks extra a tire to ship them.

i hope to have mine done this weekend. we need to start wheeling again.
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post #58 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 09:13 PM
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depends on how soon you need this done.
after aug. 10th, i might have a lot of free time.
you would need a 220v outlet for the welder so we could re-enforce those radius arm brackets.
sounds like you just have to move one of the radius arm brackets back or forward and inch or so. thats just gonna mean drilling new holes in the frame.

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post #59 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 09:26 PM
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I am drafting up your bill now. Where shall I send it?
Hey hey hey, I'm the one who brought it up first. Stealing the glory
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post #60 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 09:55 PM
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Hey hey hey, I'm the one who brought it up first. Stealing the glory
hey, it's not my fault your billing system sucks.

Maybe next time you will not use those off shore people.

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