Rethinking My SAS - Page 4 - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #61 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jopes View Post
Dan, draw yourself a picture, I am fairly confident this is whats causing his tire wear.

in order for him to go straight he has to turn the wheel a little to the left all the time. this puts the passenger side tire scrubbing the pavement all the time.
I don't want to sound like a know it all, but when it comes to alignment, I pretty much know it all. That's what I do for a living. If the axle is cocked, the front tires are always going to center once you start rolling down the road. Pretty much the only two angles that can cause wear are toe, and camber. If the wear is only on one side it has to be from camber. If it were from toe, it would be on both tires. It might be hard to visualize, and if you don't believe me, that's o.k. I've tried giving the o.p. a couple of what I thought were good pointers, that he didn't seem interested in. I'll just frustrate myself arguing with people who are probably just speculating, and have no practical experience. I think I'll go pout now.
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post #62 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 02:11 AM
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If a plane is on a treadmill, does it take off?

That's what this reminds me of.
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post #63 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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No rush...I'm not really driving it that much right now so it can definitely wait..I'm actually going to have an electician come out and put a 220 in in the next week or two so that won't be a problem..Just let me know when you have some time.


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Originally Posted by GearHead View Post
depends on how soon you need this done.
after aug. 10th, i might have a lot of free time.
you would need a 220v outlet for the welder so we could re-enforce those radius arm brackets.
sounds like you just have to move one of the radius arm brackets back or forward and inch or so. thats just gonna mean drilling new holes in the frame.
Dan I'm definitely not an alignment expert, nor do I claim to be one. Clearly you know a lot about this and, the information you've posted here has been helpful. I'm going to try to solve one problem at a time based on what I know, and right now it's pretty clear that the axle is cocked. Once that is straightened out and I can get a proper alignment on the front I'll go back and address the camber issue.

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Originally Posted by Dan Theman View Post
I don't want to sound like a know it all, but when it comes to alignment, I pretty much know it all. That's what I do for a living. If the axle is cocked, the front tires are always going to center once you start rolling down the road. Pretty much the only two angles that can cause wear are toe, and camber. If the wear is only on one side it has to be from camber. If it were from toe, it would be on both tires. It might be hard to visualize, and if you don't believe me, that's o.k. I've tried giving the o.p. a couple of what I thought were good pointers, that he didn't seem interested in. I'll just frustrate myself arguing with people who are probably just speculating, and have no practical experience. I think I'll go pout now.
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post #64 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
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Dust, what do you mean?

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Originally Posted by Dustball View Post
If a plane is on a treadmill, does it take off?

That's what this reminds me of.
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post #65 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
Dust, what do you mean?
Hmm, someone who hasn't heard of the plane/treadmill. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=plane+treadmill

The bickering back and forth on what is causing the pull and tire wear in this thread reminds me of the arguing that went on with the plane/treadmill question.
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post #66 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustball View Post
If a plane is on a treadmill, does it take off?

That's what this reminds me of.
hhhmmmmmm...... must be a really big treadmill.... or really little plane.....I don't think it would take off
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Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post




Dan I'm definitely not an alignment expert, nor do I claim to be one. Clearly you know a lot about this and, the information you've posted here has been helpful. I'm going to try to solve one problem at a time based on what I know, and right now it's pretty clear that the axle is cocked. Once that is straightened out and I can get a proper alignment on the front I'll go back and address the camber issue.
The camber issue is part of the alignment. I thought you were going to take it to a shop and get some measurements again. Did I mention that some shops (mine for example) will give you measurements for free? My point is, that you don't necessarily have to straighten the front axle before you fix the alignment. It wouldn't be a bad idea to fix it, But I align vehicles with crooked fronts, rears, or both all the time. For me, the bad wear ( and possibly pulling, I'm still not clear if it does pull) would be a bigger issue. I'm not trying to be an a$$, It just seemed like there was a whole lot of guessing going on, and I thought I could help with more than guessing.
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post #67 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
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Now that you mention it, I do recall that thread...it hasn't gotten that bad here though..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustball View Post
Hmm, someone who hasn't heard of the plane/treadmill. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=plane+treadmill

The bickering back and forth on what is causing the pull and tire wear in this thread reminds me of the arguing that went on with the plane/treadmill question.

I'm going to see if I can get it up to a shop this weekend to get them to pull some measurements on the front end, then we'll go from there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Theman View Post
hhhmmmmmm...... must be a really big treadmill.... or really little plane.....I don't think it would take off


The camber issue is part of the alignment. I thought you were going to take it to a shop and get some measurements again. Did I mention that some shops (mine for example) will give you measurements for free? My point is, that you don't necessarily have to straighten the front axle before you fix the alignment. It wouldn't be a bad idea to fix it, But I align vehicles with crooked fronts, rears, or both all the time. For me, the bad wear ( and possibly pulling, I'm still not clear if it does pull) would be a bigger issue. I'm not trying to be an a$$, It just seemed like there was a whole lot of guessing going on, and I thought I could help with more than guessing.
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post #68 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-12-2009, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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What a complete waste of my time this morning..took the Bronco up to the tire place down the road from me and the guy said he couldn't get me the numbers that I needed to determine the location of the front axle..He suggeted taking it to a frame shop..I found another place not too far away called Overbuilt Customs. Looks like they do mostly heeps and vintage stuff but a solid axle is a solid axle. Hopefully I can get it over to them next week to have a look.
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post #69 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-12-2009, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
What a complete waste of my time this morning..took the Bronco up to the tire place down the road from me and the guy said he couldn't get me the numbers that I needed to determine the location of the front axle..He suggeted taking it to a frame shop..I found another place not too far away called Overbuilt Customs. Looks like they do mostly heeps and vintage stuff but a solid axle is a solid axle. Hopefully I can get it over to them next week to have a look.
You need a different shop. He either didn't want to help you or ( more likely) he didn't know how. I hate to say it, but most alignment guys I've worked with, don't really know how to do alignments. They can run the machine, witch is sufficient 90% of the time. Any independent thought or anything outside of ordinary, and they're lost. You don't have to go to a frame shop to get measurements. It's frustrating to me because he literally only has to push a couple of keys on the keyboard, after he measures caster. Call around and ask to talk to the alignment guy. Tell him you're having trouble finding someone who can measure set back. It's stupid, but I could even tell you what to tell him to push, but that would probably just piss him off. You've got to have someone in that town that can do it I wish I could help.
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post #70 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-12-2009, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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Dan, thanks for the input. You're right the guys at this shop really didn't seem to have a clue as to what I was talking about. He kept saying he could take measurements of the back axle but that wouldn't do anything to tell me what's going on with the front axle..I'm going to check around again during the week.

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Originally Posted by Dan Theman View Post
You need a different shop. He either didn't want to help you or ( more likely) he didn't know how. I hate to say it, but most alignment guys I've worked with, don't really know how to do alignments. They can run the machine, witch is sufficient 90% of the time. Any independent thought or anything outside of ordinary, and they're lost. You don't have to go to a frame shop to get measurements. It's frustrating to me because he literally only has to push a couple of keys on the keyboard, after he measures caster. Call around and ask to talk to the alignment guy. Tell him you're having trouble finding someone who can measure set back. It's stupid, but I could even tell you what to tell him to push, but that would probably just piss him off. You've got to have someone in that town that can do it I wish I could help.
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post #71 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-12-2009, 09:11 PM
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shop was probably going to simply look at the "4 wheel alignment"...check drivers side, check passenger side, distance between axles to make sure they are parallel.

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post #72 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-13-2009, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadofax View Post
shop was probably going to simply look at the "4 wheel alignment"...check drivers side, check passenger side, distance between axles to make sure they are parallel.
Actually Clavin, a 4 wheel alignment only applies to vehicles with independent rear suspension and adjustments on the rear. On a solid rear axle vehicle they perform a thrust angle alignment. If your thrust angle is off, it will tell you. The aligner is able to compensate for that (they're almost always off a little). After he measures caster all the jackass has to do is measure symmetry/axle setback. You have to tell the aligner to measure that, and he probably doesn't know how.
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post #73 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-13-2009, 09:00 AM Thread Starter
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What ever the reason, this place was simply unable to do what I needed them to. There is a shop clear across town that knows 4wheel drive vehicles but I don't have the time to go all the way over there.
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post #74 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-13-2009, 12:38 PM
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Jeremy,
Have you tried Hedgehog over on Blanding yet?
I know they do alot of 4x4 work so they should be able to hook you up.
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post #75 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-13-2009, 02:23 PM Thread Starter
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I was talking to someone the other day about hedgehog, can't remember who and I didn't get very good feedback. I talked to the guy from this Overbuilt Customs place and he seems to know his stuff, so....I'm going to take it over there and leave it with him for a few days and see what he can find out.
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post #76 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-13-2009, 06:06 PM
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Try Terra traction ask for David they are on the northside of town

david@terratraction.com

David used to work with Dan @ BTF

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post #77 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-14-2009, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks John, I'll give him a try if this other place doesn't pan out.

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Try Terra traction ask for David they are on the northside of town

david@terratraction.com

David used to work with Dan @ BTF
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post #78 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-14-2009, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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Finally someone who knows what they're doing..I just got back from meeting with Brad at Overbuilt Customs, he does mostly Jeep work but the guy knows his stuff. He spent 1/2 hour of his time in almost 100 degree heat taking measurements and checking everything on the front end, so here is what we have, there is a 1/2 inch difference between the drivers side and the passenger side, the drivers side is sitting forward about a half inch. There is a half degree of negative camber on the passenger side. These two elements combined he said are giving me the sh**ty driving characteristics.

What needs to be done, he is going to first get the axle sitting straight under the rig then put some gussets on the R/A brackets. After that he recommended that I take it to a large truck place that can straighten out the actual axle, he couldn't find a bend but the negative camber issue definitely needs to be addressed. All in all I'm happy even though nothing actually got done today I have a plan of action.
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post #79 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-14-2009, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
Finally someone who knows what they're doing..I just got back from meeting with Brad at Overbuilt Customs, he does mostly Jeep work but the guy knows his stuff. He spent 1/2 hour of his time in almost 100 degree heat taking measurements and checking everything on the front end, so here is what we have, there is a 1/2 inch difference between the drivers side and the passenger side, the drivers side is sitting forward about a half inch. There is a half degree of negative camber on the passenger side. These two elements combined he said are giving me the sh**ty driving characteristics.

What needs to be done, he is going to first get the axle sitting straight under the rig then put some gussets on the R/A brackets. After that he recommended that I take it to a large truck place that can straighten out the actual axle, he couldn't find a bend but the negative camber issue definitely needs to be addressed. All in all I'm happy even though nothing actually got done today I have a plan of action.
.5* isn't a whole lot. That's good news. I don't know if you're aware but they do make correction parts for those. Run about $20 each, I charge about $35 to install plus alignment ($56.95) at my shop.
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post #80 of 360 (permalink) Old 07-14-2009, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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I knew they had correction parts for that but two of the other places I had been to couldn't find/locate them. Are you saying that part would fix the half degree neg camber on the passenger side? If so, do you have a P/N?

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Originally Posted by Dan Theman View Post
.5* isn't a whole lot. That's good news. I don't know if you're aware but they do make correction parts for those. Run about $20 each, I charge about $35 to install plus alignment ($56.95) at my shop.
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