The GOD of leaf SAS thread - Page 2 - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #21 of 222 (permalink) Old 01-23-2005, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by MyFullSize
Now THAT is VERY noteworthy!! I had a D30 from a '68 Bko that I was going to hang under my S-10 Blazer... That project never went though... However, the wedges were welded onto the axle in the same manner. I asked about using the D44 from another FSB with a straight axle but was told "no go". I didnt fully understand why, until someone put it into perspective for me, the wedges are formed as part of the axle and theres nothing that can be cut off.

A 4.5" grinder and some patience, the axle TTBlows suggest would be a killer steal! Off to http://car-parts.com to check on the avalibility of one!!

WooT! This is getting better with more research!!
Yes, I'm finding out you really have several alternatives here, and If you reuse much of your TTB outers, then you really are just looking for a housing with thick walls, axleshafts, and knuckles. I think most or all of those 75-77 F150's with coil had the thicker walled tubing as well, so you could go either way here.

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post #22 of 222 (permalink) Old 01-24-2005, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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I'm struggling w this on my Ranger right now.........the problem w the leaf F250 fronts and Supercab fronts is that inner axle on the pass side is different from anything else, namely different from the far more common coil fronts. So you wind up with a kinda oddball inner shaft. Bummer if you break one.

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post #23 of 222 (permalink) Old 01-24-2005, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by TTBlows
I'm struggling w this on my Ranger right now.........the problem w the leaf F250 fronts and Supercab fronts is that inner axle on the pass side is different from anything else, namely different from the far more common coil fronts. So you wind up with a kinda oddball inner shaft. Bummer if you break one.
Yea, I did a lot of reading of Mr. N. you're exactly right F250 and superc. have differernt shafts (the axle is slightly wider), actually both inners are slightly different size vs. the F150/bronco (looks to be the same size, both sides, '73-79, 33.91", 18.91"). So then I went to Superior and Warn's sites...the chromo's they carry as a standard size is for F150/Bronco, so it looks to me that these would be extra dough for something custom, probably wouldn't be that much more, but it's just an added headache, and like you say, you've got a part out on the trail that is not as easily sourced. So there is one big + going back to your suggestion of 76-77, instead, if someone were ever thinking of wanting to upgrade the shafts. As to 76-77 all is good, except as you mentioned before, you can get 3/8" or 1/2" thick tubing, but at least it's one solid tube of good thickness, vs. Bronco which ends at that cast in coil mount, and some use an inner .25" thick wall.

back to the F250/cupercab, it also appears that the part numbers at schucks for Ford hub/rotor are all the same for say an '85 bronco, '78 supercab, and '77 F150, but not for my '95. It may just be that my toner ring is the difference, and it would still fit, or it may not. Mr. N's article did state that you cannot use the HD knuckles (flattops, F250) with 5 lug spindle/hub/rotor. So my thought of using the HD knuckles for strength, ability to swap to 8 lug later if I wanted, and potential high steer, is shot. I would have to buy everyhting knuckle out down the road it I later wanted to say swap a 10.25 in the rear. Mr. N also tended to advise away from the F150 supercab knuckle in that although it was flattop, it's just an odd duck, and certain parts may or may not interchange.

Bottom line, if you want to stick with 5 lug stuff, a 76-77 seems to be the easiest ticket. You could do a highsteer, but you have to tread down the Chev/GM path. If you later wanted to do 8 lug, there would be a lot of knuckle out swapping going on, expensive. And way too many decisions to be made. so chalk one up for the D60, at least you don't have to think about all this mix and match.

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post #24 of 222 (permalink) Old 01-24-2005, 01:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejuice
back to the F250/cupercab, it also appears that the part numbers at schucks for Ford hub/rotor are all the same for say an '85 bronco, '78 supercab, and '77 F150, but not for my '95. It may just be that my toner ring is the difference, and it would still fit, or it may not.
Yeah, I bet it's just an ABS issue. Wouldn't worry about it.

Mr N's article has some good info, but isnt' the end-all be-all some people would have you believe. I mean props to him for compiling all the info, but sometimes it confuzes me more than it answers questions. And the pics just flat out suck.

EDIT: my only concern with putting leaf perches on a coil axle would be if the caster was set the same from the factory on each. IE perhaps coil axles had less caster built in, which could create an ugly compromise between caster and pinion angle when you try to position your spring perches.

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post #25 of 222 (permalink) Old 01-24-2005, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFullSize
Virginia

Ive called all recyclers within a 100 mines, cannot find a suitable D44 or D60. Im batting a big zero here.. damn it.


I had problems with the control arm setup of my 1989 S-10 Blazer. When I was shopping for a big truck, I was sure to find a solid front axle (SFA). I looked the the Bronco and at a casual inspection, I *knew* it had an SFA. You can imagine my shock when I found out it was some damn bastard setup. Im hating myself right now. Im looking at bunches of money just to set my truck up the way it *should* be, and its my own damn fault! Im such a stupid idiot and fool. Damn me! I was first looking at K5's, I should have kept searching.

Anyway, Im still willing to do the *LEAF* hung SFA swap, if I can find a good axle I dont have to drop $2K into to get ready. Damn it. Damn me.

Well, if this helps any, I was looking at k5's and Broncos long ago. I KNEW beforehand of the TTB, and chose the Bronco anyway.

What you need to get hooked into is where to finds parts other than a Jyard. There must be lots of possible D44's in your area. And really, as discussed above, just a simple SFA D44 could be done with ANY 76-79, 1/2 ton axle, which should not be anywhere near the price of a 60. Then the only real issue is rebuild money, and placement under the truck. If you have to farm that out, labor will have to be added.

KL, could you explain your comment concerning "built in caster" a bit further? I suppose the ball joints must sit at a particular position, so the way the tubes are pressed into the diff, and how the leaf or coil mount is placed would affect caster. in changing from coil to leaf, you can place the leaf perch a bit differently, and use a shim to adjust caster, but you can't get around the "pre-positioned caster" from the ball joint placement/tube press. And whether this is different from an axle that came with leafs to begin with??

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post #26 of 222 (permalink) Old 01-25-2005, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by MyFullSize
.

If I could find a proper donar axle for $500-600 tomorrow, Id go buy it. Keep in mind, Im only trying to hunt up a D44, for the love of Jesus.
buy one on E-bay or something, We pull Dana 44's all day here for about 250 each, and it only costs about 150 to ship it

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post #27 of 222 (permalink) Old 01-25-2005, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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East coast thinks in terms of small distances

100 miles is nothing, expand your search to at least 250 miles. When I was searching for a 60 front I was willing to go 500 miles. I only wound up having to go a little over 200. But I wouldnt' go so far for 44 fronts, they're far more common.

Juice, basically what you said. It depends upon how Ford rotated the inner knuckles. I just don't know if they positioned them differently for coil vs leaf, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did. You'd have to cut and turn the inner knuckles if you couldn't find a decent compromise between positive caster and pinion angle. It's personally not something I'd be comfortable doing without a high dollar digital angle finder and more experience welding cast, but people do it "shadetree" quite a bit.

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post #28 of 222 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 10:29 PM
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Well, I got a lead on a supercab 44 with 5 lug and spring perches. Wish me luck, waiting to hear back something still. Shipping is going to be about $250+... Gawd, mama is gonna de-nut me if I buy this thing.

If she gives me any lip, I may have to twack her for it.

Hopefully, it wont turn into a battle though...

Heres the thing, she said "the next vehicle you buy, its going to be less than 5 years old, so we wont go though all this shit again" (This, right after a $340 bill for new distributor, coil and ing modual... Then the same week $320 to a new bearing and Warn hub that got chewed)

So, my plan is to not get rid of the Bronco, instead KEEP it and keep putting money into it, since anything newer will be a lesser truck!

This means I dont have permission to sell the Bronco with TTB to get a K5 Blazer with SFA. If Im going to get what I want, I have to convert the Bronco into what I want.


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post #29 of 222 (permalink) Old 07-14-2005, 02:46 PM
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After reading this and just thought of something. I have been debating between on doing a coil or leaf sprung SAS. I have a 78 D60 so it has a longer driver side axle tube than 86+ ones. Now if I choose to do leaf sprung, will I encounter problems getting the leafs to sit nicely on the axle perches? From what I have heard the 70's frames were a little narrower.

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post #30 of 222 (permalink) Old 07-14-2005, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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Been covered

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTBlows
5. What’s the deal with spring perch spacing? This is measured from center of one spring perch to the center of the other spring perch and is pretty important to your swap. There are basically two numbers you need to know here: 32” and 36.25” (approx). Any leaf sprung 4x4 from the late ‘70s will be 32”. This worked great for the framerails of that era which were essentially straight. However, if you look at the framerails of your ‘80+ Bronco when kneeling in front of the vehicle you’ll see that the framerails go in and out, particularly around the coil tower/shock tower.

’86+ (the year which Ford returned to solid axles – Dana 60s- on it’s F350s) is based upon a 36” center to center spacing to accommodate the wider, wackier frame. Note that for the most part every ’80-97 Ford truck, Bronco thru F350, used basically the same frame from the framehorns to the firewall.

*In my opinion* if you’re working with an ’80 Bronco and you want to do a leaf SAS, it is easier to use 36” spring spacing (otherwise the hangers I mentioned above will not work for you). This means if you find a donor axle with 32” spacing, you can simply move the spring perches out to the wider spacing. This what we did with Beerman’s swap. If you are using an ‘80+ frame and want to run the 32” spacing, you will need to build a custom crossmember up front, see Bronco Boy’s swap for an example of this.

You should also read this:
http://www.2bigbroncos.org/technical/d60/index.html

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post #31 of 222 (permalink) Old 08-03-2005, 04:16 AM
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Is it possible to mount the perches at 32" spacing with an 86+ D60?
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post #32 of 222 (permalink) Old 08-03-2005, 08:32 AM
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Since the drivers perch is cast into the diff housing, and it's only a couple inches from the knuckle, your options are pretty limited.
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post #33 of 222 (permalink) Old 08-03-2005, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterphil
Is it possible to mount the perches at 32" spacing with an 86+ D60?
Nope. You can see the diff is occupying that space:

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post #34 of 222 (permalink) Old 08-03-2005, 02:32 PM
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So in order to go with the 32" perch spacing a earlier model D60 must be used.

Larson, How "in the way" are the springs at 36" spacing with 42's like you are using? What BS are your wheels?

For my sas I am planning on using 57" rear leafs and 42's on 15x10 with 2.75" or less backspacing. I am concerned about leaf spring to tire interference(rubbing). That's why I was thinking of going with 32" perches vs the 36" spacing. Am I making more of a problem than it is really going to be?
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post #35 of 222 (permalink) Old 08-03-2005, 05:22 PM
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I can tell you that 38s rub the leafs when I turn the wheel all the way. It seems to be worse in reverse as well. I do only have like 4 1/2" of backspacing though. Given the choice I'd run 3" of backspacing. That's my plan whenever I get to the bigger tires.

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post #36 of 222 (permalink) Old 08-04-2005, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterphil
So in order to go with the 32" perch spacing a earlier model D60 must be used.

Larson, How "in the way" are the springs at 36" spacing with 42's like you are using? What BS are your wheels?

For my sas I am planning on using 57" rear leafs and 42's on 15x10 with 2.75" or less backspacing. I am concerned about leaf spring to tire interference(rubbing). That's why I was thinking of going with 32" perches vs the 36" spacing. Am I making more of a problem than it is really going to be?
The 42's hit so many other things that the springs are the least of my problems By the time I got everything adjusted to where the tires cleared the front frame horn, the firewall, the headlights, and the heater box, they cleared the springs nicely Your biggest obstacle is the radiator support mount, it's majorly in the way. I run recentered Hummer rims with about 4.5 inches backspacing.

I wouldn't run 2.5" backspacing with tires this large. It's just too much leverage on knuckle parts and your scrub radius will be rediculous. It works with smaller tires, but I wouldn't do it with anything bigger than 38's or so, just my personal opinion.

The D60 stops have enough adjustment that you can clear the springs and still have a relatively decent turning radius. It's not too big a deal.
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post #37 of 222 (permalink) Old 08-04-2005, 02:07 PM
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Larston, you are only running like 6" of lift arent you? How much lift would someone need to avoid some of the problems you ran into? I am using 32" spacing which will help some, and am shooting for no more than 8 - 10" of lift.



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post #38 of 222 (permalink) Old 08-04-2005, 03:40 PM
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I think I'm close to 8" of lift. If I had any bigger tires than 38's I'd be hitting the radiator support bracket too. I'll have to inboard it like Larston did. I'm thinking of running tube from the body (maybe to the cage if I have one) to the radiator to alleviate the need for the front quarter. I may rivit sections on for looks though. I'll also be inboarding the battery(s) like Blown did in his project. This is all stuff I'll do one step at a time now though. I be wheelin now.

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post #39 of 222 (permalink) Old 08-04-2005, 06:25 PM
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If anyone gives a shat, Jobrite seems to have plenty of these. I just ordered mine today @ $45 a pop. Seemed a little spendy to me, but I'm lazy, and I dont care.

http://www.jobriteauto.com/
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post #40 of 222 (permalink) Old 08-04-2005, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JahWarrior
Larston, you are only running like 6" of lift arent you? How much lift would someone need to avoid some of the problems you ran into? I am using 32" spacing which will help some, and am shooting for no more than 8 - 10" of lift.
My total lift is somewhere in the 7" range. I limit uptravel to 4 inches at the frame to keep from smacking my high steer drag link. Even then, the tire hits the bottom of the AC box (did I mention those are BIG FREAKIN' TIRES???)

I think that 10 inches would probably be enough to keep the tires out of trouble as long as you limited up travel. That much lift would allow you moderate up travel (5 inches at the frame) for decent flex, but would keep the tires below the firewall to help turning radius. Another thing that would help a lot is to move the axle forward as far as you can (a la Big Norm), which will put you into the backs of the headlights and turn signals, but that's a much easier problem to deal with and at that lift may not even be a problem.

A couple other items to watch for with the big meats is you have to flatten the firewall seams to keep from cutting the tires, and you'll want to relocate the ebrake cable so it comes out lower on the firewall. And of course, the unwritten obvious mod is cutting the fenders and rebuilding/removing the inner fenders. With 10 inches lift, you'd have to do much less of this than I did.
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