SAS NEWBIE QUESTIONS - NO FLAMING ALLOWED - Page 2 - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #21 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-13-2007, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelthra View Post
Caster = forward/rearward rotation of the axle?
yep. forward rotating automatically will happen with lift, and affects the steeriing components in front of the axle, so you have C bushing and RA correction (like Cage) to counter this to keep positive caster (axis of axle horizontal tilted a little rearward at top) in the 3-7* range for most applications.

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post #22 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-13-2007, 07:57 PM
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And for a Leaf spring lift, you'd need to move the spring perches, right?

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post #23 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-13-2007, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelthra View Post
And for a Leaf spring lift, you'd need to move the spring perches, right?
move them? as in cut and reweld? I'd think only for a lot of lift. It's perfectly fine to use a small angled shim, which does the same thing as C bushings for coils.

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post #24 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-13-2007, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelthra View Post
And for a Leaf spring lift, you'd need to move the spring perches, right?
perches on the actual axle?...yes depending on how you want to mount the leafs to the frame...I widened my perches to match the width of my bkos frame.

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post #25 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-14-2007, 06:58 AM
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I'd use the TRE's hands down for any daily driver.
That's what I am thinking, it also looks easier to get the Trac-Bar angles correct.


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post #26 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-14-2007, 07:08 AM
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well its not really a newbie question but it dus pertain to sas ttb. When I swap my sas under the front can I remove my spendle, rotors and slide on manuel hubs? I havent had any problems with then and there easier to work on. Ie sliding the wheel off and then the hole 4x4 hub is much easyer than unscrewing it then removing 3 c rings and trying to work inside of the 4x4 hub to work on the bearings. Has any one dun this before?
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post #27 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-14-2007, 09:33 AM
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I was going to, but then i did a D60 instead of a D44.
Yes, you could swap those parts over.
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post #28 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-14-2007, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadofax View Post
yep.
no, its not the axis of the axle. its the angle of the axis that the knuckle spins on. you wan't about 6-10 degrees tilted back for decent street driveability. i run ~10* if i remember right and it drives excellent, better than any other leaf spring vehicle i've driven.

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post #29 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-14-2007, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
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yeah, but 7 is ideal IIRC. More caster works better for hydro steering.

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post #30 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-14-2007, 07:18 PM
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Will long tube headers off a 351M / bolt up to a 390

I'm not worried about the frame or nothing just the bolts lining up?
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post #31 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-14-2007, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy351 View Post
no, its not the axis of the axle. its the angle of the axis that the knuckle spins on. you wan't about 6-10 degrees tilted back for decent street driveability. i run ~10* if i remember right and it drives excellent, better than any other leaf spring vehicle i've driven.
As Damon mentioned, 10* is not normal that I know of, though in watching hydro threads it appears that for some reason, more + caster is beneficial.

I'm not following the correction though. I'm thinking of the axle as whole, inclusive of knuckle. Caster either tilts the axle unit forward (negative caster, usually occuring naturally do to us lifting our trucks) or backward (positive caster, C bushing or some other means of corrective action countering the lift induced neg. caster). It's just a rotation on an axis, which in my mind is a straight line down through the axle from knuckle to knuckle, which affects the knuckles since they are attached to the axle.

EDIT: Just to point out as well...different setups seem to deal with Caster differently....I mentioned the 3-7* because that is the rough factory spec for most leaf and coil, 1/2T-1T truck applications. I ended up with almost 8*, and it's a bit too much. truck drives beautiful and tracks straight down the road. but steering return to center is slow, and from my reading this is due to excess + caster. It also wears the front tires a bit unusual (both sides) due to how the tire begins to angle out/back when turning (again due to a bit too much caster).

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post #32 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-14-2007, 09:58 PM
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Yes but caster is based off the orientation of the upper balljoint (or kingpin) in relation to the lower, and is totally isolated from pinion angle. Sure differently degreed C wedges are technically rotating the axle around its centerline and changing both pinion & caster angles, but you still have the option of rotating one or the other simply by turning the knuckles.
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post #33 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-14-2007, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reptillikus View Post
Yes but caster is based off the orientation of the upper balljoint (or kingpin) in relation to the lower, and is totally isolated from pinion angle. Sure differently degreed C wedges are technically rotating the axle around its centerline and changing both pinion & caster angles, but you still have the option of rotating one or the other simply by turning the knuckles.
Yes, understood on the knuckle upper and lower relation.
So If I understand you correctly you mean to say the pinion is totally isolated from knuckles before they are welded to the axle?

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post #34 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 12:38 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jackedupbronco View Post
Will long tube headers off a 351M / bolt up to a 390

I'm not worried about the frame or nothing just the bolts lining up?
this is for SAS realated information only

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post #35 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 09:17 AM
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well its not really a newbie question but it dus pertain to sas ttb. When I swap my sas under the front can I remove my spendle, rotors and slide on manuel hubs? I havent had any problems with then and there easier to work on. Ie sliding the wheel off and then the hole 4x4 hub is much easyer than unscrewing it then removing 3 c rings and trying to work inside of the 4x4 hub to work on the bearings. Has any one dun this before?
No, that will not work.

You cannot access the spindle nuts with the rotor on. The rotor cannot be removed until the two bearing nuts have been removed. In order to access the bearing nuts you have to remove the clips and hub assembly.

Also, you cant cheat time/labor by trying to drop the knuckle by unscrewing the ball joints. The lower nut has the axle "U" joint mere millimeters from it and the axle shaft would most likely pinch that process even if you managed to get the lower nut off.

Hope that answers your question.
post #36 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 11:15 AM
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He's talking about the tophat hubs that came on the 87-88s, not removing the hub to get to the spindle nuts
Remove that hub and youre right at the ratcheting locknut for the wheel bearings. Its stupid easy to do wheel bearings or rotors on a truck with the tophats.
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post #37 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadofax View Post
Yes, understood on the knuckle upper and lower relation.
So If I understand you correctly you mean to say the pinion is totally isolated from knuckles before they are welded to the axle?
I think so, yes. The tubes are pressed into the knuckle and then plug welded, and then the inner Cs get pressed on and set to the proper caster spec before being welded in place. So the factory could change the pinion angle to whatever they wanted w/o ever changing the caster spec. Thats why i refer to caster as being isolated from axle (diff) rotation.
Actually, ive heard, altho i cant yet confirm/disprove it, that the 78-9 D60s are available with two different pinion angles, which you can identify by whether or not the front shaft has a double cardan on it or not. Mine came from a truck with a DC shaft, i just need to find a non-DC shafted truck to compare the two angles.
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post #38 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 12:31 PM
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Will long tube headers off a 351M / bolt up to a 390
No.
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post #39 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-17-2007, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reptillikus View Post
I think so, yes. The tubes are pressed into the knuckle and then plug welded, and then the inner Cs get pressed on and set to the proper caster spec before being welded in place. So the factory could change the pinion angle to whatever they wanted w/o ever changing the caster spec. Thats why i refer to caster as being isolated from axle (diff) rotation.
Actually, ive heard, altho i cant yet confirm/disprove it, that the 78-9 D60s are available with two different pinion angles, which you can identify by whether or not the front shaft has a double cardan on it or not. Mine came from a truck with a DC shaft, i just need to find a non-DC shafted truck to compare the two angles.
Ok, so it's just a different point of view...from my thinking as the end person of an axle in the garage, I'm thinking simple adjustment of caster (like opting for varying degree C bushings), not thinking of removing a welded and pressed in Knuckle as something seperate that can be set (though it certainly could be done).

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post #40 of 5510 (permalink) Old 02-17-2007, 11:34 AM
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another newb question but are the u joints the same size front and back on the np208?

83 bronco I-6 custom fenders(sawzall and sledge) 38" ground hawgs,TTB
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