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electric fan help

13K views 174 replies 29 participants last post by  DNBELOWBRONCO 
#1 ·
ok i searched and found everyone putting E-fans on the older(80s) trucks and well since im having fan shroud issues im just gonna put an electric fan on the new radiator.

as for the fan im gonna look for a tuarus or mark 8 fan with shroud, the shroud needs to measure around 27-1/2" x 19" or 20" so ill be grabbing my tape measure and heading to the j/y on a hunt this weekend

as for the controlling I'd rather not use one of those "probe" type controllers(not as accurate as id like) so i need to know (hopefully steve or someone can chime in here) what temp should the fan come on and what temp should it shut off on a 92-95 5.0 bronco? i know the T-stat opens at 195, then from there im gonna look into getting a fan temp switch(with said temps) that i can tap n thread into the lower intake or T-stat housing and wire that up to a nice 40 or 60 amp plastic relay then call it done.....nice n clean and itll work just fine while also being accurate

all i need is the ON and OFF temps for a 92-95 5.0 bronco then ill start searching for temp switches :toothless

if anyone can help id appreciate it :thumbup
 
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#2 ·
Iirc i have mine set to come on 5* above the t-stat, kick into high speed 10* after that and shut off 5* under the t-stat. Im running a 185 on mine. There is some tech around here of a electric switch that threads into the water neck. Im running a probe halfway down my rad and havent had any issues.
 
#5 ·
The V-8 T-Bird fans are nice n big too. Ford Windstar's have a nice dual 30 amp relay setup that you might want to snag for it while you are at the J/Y.
As far as the temp sensor, Painless Wiring makes a coolant sensor that works rather well, Summit has em
 
#6 ·
so if im running a 195* which i think i am, the fan or fans should turn on around 205* and off at 190*? would that cycle the fan too often? and if the "wet" switch is on the engine wouldnt the fan run all the time since the T-stat closes at 195* and the switch shuts off at 190*?

@mickaila is that controller the probe style or would it work with a "wet" switch?

i seem to overthink things sometimes if i am just say so, as for now im just asking questions
 
#64 ·
Like Steve and others have tried to say, you're overthinking it too much. Don't worry about differences in Dry or Wet temp readings. What you seem to be wanting is the temp in your engine to be about 195*. It doesn't matter what temp the fan comes on or off at or how many times it turns on/off in a minute, hour, day and at what speeds. Set the system to come on around 190 and let it ride. If the temp in the block is too low, it won't come on, if it's too high it will continue to run until it reaches that temp.

I live about 60-80 miles South of you and can say that with all these temps we have, even in the hottest days, you're not going to have a problem overheating unless the fan fails and you're in gridlocked traffic for hours. You're really not going to notice any major changes between the factory fan and the electric fan as far as performance goes.

Unless you've upgraded your Alternator, you're going to be pulling a lot of current to power it tat the rest of the vehicle would rather have. That'll drag down the engine worse than the mechanical fan did.

My advice to you is to first do the 3G alternator upgrade if you haven't already. Then find a shroud to fit your radiator and then look at getting an electric fan if you still want one. That's my plan, when/if I ever do that. I'd more likely do it to my 08 Ram than I would my '92 Bronco though and I did upgrade to a higher output Alternator on my Ram already.
 
#7 ·
i just want to know the temps of which a "wet" or thermostatic swich should be for this application with the stock T-stat(195* i beleive)

i.e. ON at 205* OFF at 190*?

the switch will be installed either behind the T-stat(hot side) or just above or below the stock ECT sensor
 
#9 ·
ok i searched and found everyone putting E-fans on the older(80s) trucks...
Not everyone is swapping to an e-fan, and even if they were, that's not a good reason to jump off a cliff or install an e-fan on yours. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Adding weight? Adding complexity? Adding engine load? Adding alternator load? Reducing MPG? Then you're on the right track! :thumbup

The (ANY) fan's purpose is NOT to prevent the engine from going over the t-stat temp. - the engine MUST go above that to enter closed loop & run properly. The HOTTER it runs, the more-efficiently it runs, and the more power it can make. So starting an e-fan before the t-stat opens is sort of a waste, except that the added load will help the engine warm up faster. But you could accomplish the same thing by driving with the e-brake on. Running the fan with no coolant flow is pointless.

The best, most-reliable, most-efficient, and properly-engineered system for these trucks is the stock clutch & shroud. Newer vehicles benefit from e-fans because they have VERY complex EEC programming to run the fan only when it's needed for the best performance. Putting a "dumb" e-fan on an old truck has VERY limited benefits, and only in VERY specific driving conditions.
 
#35 ·
Steve although I respect your bronco knowledge (and you have helped me a few times) there is some theoretical thinking your overlooking. I haven't been on here much in the last few years because I was more focused on the motorcycle forums, but I did learn a few things there.

The best, most-reliable, most-efficient, and properly-engineered system for these trucks is the stock clutch & shroud. Newer vehicle benefit from e-fans because they have VERY complex EEC programming to run the fan only when it's needed for the best performance. Putting a "dumb" e-fan on an old truck has VERY limited benefits, and only in VERY specific driving conditions.
That is why the proper use of a fan controller to control when the fan is on is important, similar to way the EEC would. Not just using a "dumb fan", so I agree with you on the "dumb fan" part.

An no - HP is not free, so there is no "freeing up" to be done. It takes some HP to run an e-fan. Theoretically, about the same as it takes to spin a mechanical fan. But the e-fan requires that energy to be converted back & forth from belt power to electricty in the alternator/battery flowing thru resistive wires/connectors/relays and back to mechanical energy in the fan motor. And any 1st-year engineering student can tell you that EVERY time you change energy's form, you LOSE some of it (which is why there's no perpetual motion). Usually about half. That means it takes ~4x as much belt energy to spin an e-fan as a mechanical fan. So what HP do you think you're "freeing up"?When you went out & looked under the hood of "every L", I think you might have missed one or 2. I'm a member on NLOC, and I can tell you that there are several there running the stock mechanical fan. As to "max power & MPG"; how do you know? Did you dyno-test ALL of them before they switched to e-fans, and again after? Have you ever done that with ONE vehicle? ANY vehicle?Again - I think your survey missed a couple, because I've wheeled with a few who have mech. fans.That's one of the FEW logical reasons to put an e-fan on a mech. fan engine.

But it will NEVER improve HP at the wheels or MPG (on average, or specifically when the fan is running). I went into more detail about it in this thread:
http://www.f150online.com/forums/v8-engines/427678-opinions-help-electric-fan-mod.html"Shooting down" is one way of looking at it; "injecting reason" is another. :shrug
Yes, the alternator does use some HP, but it's spinning anyways and most of the time producing more electricity then the battery needs. Which is why there is a voltage regulator. The fan clutch WILL take away HP when in use, "theoretically" the alternator will take away on an e-fan (but only if it is overloading the electrical system IMO). So should we not use our radios or headlights too? One is a definite the other is theoretical.

I'm not a "1st-year engineering student" or an engineering student at all. But I did learn a few things on physics in the moto world. One of those things is rotating mass. The heavier something is the more power it takes to turn it.

This is the reason why moto racers spend thousands on lighter wheels, tires, chains and sprockets. Same reason hot rodders use lightened pulleys. Rotating mass is much more important then just weight on a vehicle. Spin a tire on your bronco and then spin a tire on a bicycle, which takes more force? That is the best way to explain rotating mass. A plastic fan has much less rotating mass, so it "could" have less drag on the motor even with converting mech-to-elec-to-mech.

Turning a heavy steel fan "could" in fact take more energy off the engine then the drag on an the magnets in an alternator, to in turn power an electric motor that is spinning a plastic fan that weights MUCH less by a battery that is already charged.

But again I am just sharing my limited knowledge on physics and what my non-engineer brain understands of it. Maybe you can teach me something new, but I think there is an obvious reason why newer vehicles ALL use e-fans.

I am interested on you opinion on rotating mass and how it affects this particular change in motor drag. :beer
 
#10 ·
I think there migh tbe an upper limit of "The HOTTER it runs, the more-efficiently it runs, and the more power it can make. "

yoomoo, its a probe that goes into the radiator. there are threads around of guys putting it into the radiator hose with a bit of sealant too.
 
#11 ·
Steve... When will you figure out that it's the COOL factor of this? I did mine because I got bored. Not EVERYTHING has to be better because of tangible numbers.

I have a rubber chicken hanging from my mirror...that mod didnt add MPG but it DID add bling.

Fo' realz, B.
 
#14 ·
I think there migh tbe an upper limit of "The HOTTER it runs...
Of course. Nowadays, it's the oil, but the cooling system has been engineered around that temperature, and so has the engine design, and all the materials used on/around it. When we come up with a lubricant that works from -40 to +350F, engine systems will be redesigned around those temps to take advantage of the higher efficiency. But modern oil can handle ~240F, so the closer you run to that, the better-off you are.
Not EVERYTHING has to be better because of tangible numbers.
I didn't say it did - I asked him why he's doing it. But MOST people are under the misconception that an e-fan is inherently better when the fact is: it's inherently worse.

If he's doing it for the rubber-chicken-factor, that's as good a reason as any. :thumbup Mine is going back in due to the $$$ factor - it's still cheaper for me to wire it into the new harness than to buy a new clutch. But when these fans die, it'll be cheaper to buy a clutch than to buy fans. When that happens, I'll just abandon the e-fan wiring in-place - it won't affect anything when the fans are removed.
...the new radiator, not even close to fitting it...
this was advertised as an oem replacement but so far its not, i mean it bolted in place great all the hoses and lines fit great but the shroud is a deffinet NO GO
...id rather not go threw the hassle of sending it back...
Returning it for the right radiator would be the logical thing to have done when you could. Now, the best fix is to find a shroud that fits that radiator (that's probably why the mfr. changed the mounting - because they sell a matching shroud), or just modify your shroud AND that radiator's mounting tabs so they match. It doesn't take 1/2" bolts to mount a shroud - zip ties are OK if they're black (temperature & UV resistant) and wide enough to take the weight. But it doesn't take much to drill new holes in the tabs for the original clips & bolts.
...all the manufacturers have switched to using electric...
They DIDN'T just slap an e-fan onto an old engine - they fully integrated the fan into the engine management system. It's like plugging an EFI fuel pump into a carb engine's tank and expecting to get the benefits of EFI from it - it doesn't work that way. :shrug
...id like to use a simpler factory like setup useing the "wet" thermostatic switch with a few fuses and a relay instead of complicating things with some fancy controller...
...or the zone
:twak:smilie_slap:twak:smilie_slap
Try a JY - they're cheaper & sell higher-quality parts. :toothless
 
#12 ·
ok i searched and found everyone putting E-fans on the older(80s) trucks and well since im having fan shroud issues im just gonna put an electric fan on the new radiator.
IMO that's a crummy reason to put in a e-fan.
If that's really the only reason you're doing this then just find a fan shroud that's close and trim it till it fits.

I had an e-fan in mine for a while to try to get better mileage. When I took it off I didn't notice any significant difference.
 
#13 ·
id love to keep the factory clutch and fan since i just replaced the clutch but like i said the fan shroud from my older 3 or 4 core radiator does not fit the new radiator, not even close to fitting it, i could hack away at the shroud but i dont see any way to make it fit its just way to big on all sides, and on the bottom of the radiator where the 2 metal clips are supposed to go to hold the shroud on there isnt even holes to put the clips in like the stock radiator........

this was advertised as an oem replacement but so far its not, i mean it bolted in place great all the hoses and lines fit great but the shroud is a deffinet NO GO

since it does fit and is already installed in the truck and the packaging is already long gone id rather not go threw the hassle of sending it back, now i just need to figure out if FORD had a different shroud for the smaller 1 row radiator or what :shrug

id like to put an electric fan in since all the manufacturers have switched to using electric over the mechanical and it seems like the better fix in this situation, i have upgraded the electrical systems to handle the extra load, but id like to use a simpler factory like setup useing the "wet" thermostatic switch with a few fuses and a relay instead of complicating things with some fancy controller, now if the switch i need for this application isnt available then id go with a controller but so far ive sourced a few on ebay, and painless performance although they do cost like $40 for just the dam switch, but if someone smart enough to know of a vehicle that uses such a switch in the correct temp range then i could get it much cheaper at advance or the zone

im not arguing with anyone here im just asking for a little bit of info/help
 
#15 ·
ok steve so since i seem to have gain some of your trust/likelyness in this what heat range do YOU beleive the switch should be(ON/OFF), to properly keep my WAY1 MAF system happy remember im running a 195* stat, your the most knowledgable guy i know on here, then sigepblue comes second and seattlefsb and sackman are a close 3rd, Ryan(fireguy5.0) comes in there somewhere when he decides to come back to the site

ive already taken the fan/clutch out and preping for the E-fans so im obviously dedicated to the E-fans at this point,
 
#16 ·
I don't necessarily agree with that ranking, and I certainly don't think it's relevant - you (& I) can learn stuff from the newest newbie, and the oldest old-timer can get easy stuff wrong. :brownbag

My point was: the turn-on temperature isn't that critical. I use a switch that comes on ~170F. It's not optimal, but it works fine. Somehow, I ended up with a new GM temperature switch in my hoarde, and even though I know almost nothing about it, I'm gonna try using it as my high-speed fan switch when I start modding the new engine bay harness. If I don't like how it works, I'll unplug it - my e-fan has been working only on low for the past several years. Spending lots of time, effort, & money to find the BEST temperature isn't worth it. And based on your reasoning, swapping to an e-fan isn't worth it, either. It would cost you less effort & $$ to put a shroud on. With the weather we're having here now (sleet yesterday; 40F & raining today), you could probably get away with NO shroud for the next few months, so I don't think there's any big rush. You have the time - I recommend you take it, and find the right shroud for the least $$. :thumbup
 
#21 ·
With the weather we're having here now (sleet yesterday; 40F & raining today), you could probably get away with NO shroud for the next few months, so I don't think there's any big rush. You have the time - I recommend you take it, and find the right shroud for the least $$. :thumbup
Sorry Steve, but this is Florida. No sleet and 66* as I type this. so I disagree.

Now since you are dead set on an E-fan ill give you a few tips.
-If you want automatic high/low speed operation then get a dual fan setup. this will make wiring simpler.

-There are 16" and 18" single fans that have high and low speeds. you really only need low speed for most driving.
Also you can use a standard 30 amp relay for the low speed on a 18" high/low fan. I ran one with an 18 amp breaker and a 30 amp relay on low speed only with a manual switch for months and it never had trouble cooling the truck.

-The only time your truck will actually need the fan to come on is while idling or moving slow for extended periods. while moving at any decent speed (~15+) the radiator will stay cool. I actually drove around for a week once with effectively no fan. It only ran hot once and that was while sitting at the dump waiting to leave. I do NOT recommend doing that. It could have ended very badly

-Make shure the fan comes on with the ac. My ac compressor locked up in rush hour traffic when the fan was off but the engine was still cool.

- As for the temperature switch, Steve actually has a factory ford one on his. It came on early fuel injected I6 trucks. It was used to switch on a blower to cool the injectors. It clips on to the tube that feeds the heater core and that's the way Steve has it set up.

If you want I have 2 18" high/low speed fans from Continentals.
 
#17 ·
so no help on the electric fan then :banghead

geuss ill just run no shroud till she blows then send it to the junkyard with less then 2k on a fresh rebuid cause personaly i hate that mechanical fan :thumbup

thanks everyone :D
 
#19 ·
Let's hear it for the junkyard dog!
I bought an expensive aftermarket radiator that came 1) warped 2) with a top bracket on the bottom and return shipping conditions I couln't meet.
Money spent . . .lesson learned.
Went to the j/y and bought a radiator for $50.00. It fits. The shroud fits. Idling in gridlock @ 103* and the temp gauge doesn't move.
Don't need or want an eclectic electric mess.
 
#22 ·
Steve - Are you saying that an E-fan will never improve MPGs? It will never free up a couple Hp? It will never be better than factory fan clutch?

I am not going to fight you one way or another but I do find it odd that all the L's 93-95, run E-fans to get max power and MPGs. Also all serious off road rigs run E-fans so they can turn them off for water.
 
#23 ·
now we are getting somewhere!!!!

i know for a fact an electric fan DOES increase power a bit and like maybe 2 MPG, so anyways now to the usefull posts!

@92truck on that switch i would probly use the second circuit since it is a good idea to keep the thermostat open for closed loop operation correct? im running a 195* or should i just use both on a dual fan setup?

if i read Ryans site correctly the EEC enters closed loop function after 185* so is it better to keep the T-stat open while still cooling or should i use the first circuit and allow it to cycle open and closed?.......as for the wiring and relays/fuses i got that covered as long as the above is a "switch" meaning it will itself turn the relays on and off according to temps instead of a resistance sensor which would be useless in the system im trying to make

ive yet to read the whole thread but i will once im finished with dinner in a few

:thumbup


@pfun41 i seen that switch on his supermotors but the temps on it are far too low for the EEC-IV which enters closed loop at 185* and above if im correct

as for the fans im gonna be searching for the dual fan setup and hoping i can find one with the dimensions i need: 27-1/2"x19"or20" to cover the entire finned surface for max cooling when the fans are on, i dont want to only be cooling one part of the radiator id like it to cool the entire unit like the factory shroud does but your info will be helpfull too :thumbup


as for my current shroud problem i actually was looking at my 95 which has the same radiator i just put in and its shroud IS different but has ford stamped on it so i was rite FORD has a diff shroud for the 1 row radiators, so i could keep the mech fan by just going to the j/y and getting a ford 1 row shroud but im more interested in the E-fans

give me a chance to eat dinner then go threw everything yall posted and if i have any more questions ill post them here but while im gone 92truck if you could or might possibly know the answer to my question above about the T-stat cycleing or it being better for it to remain open and just keep the coolant at a certain temp without cycling the fans too often

you guys have so far givin me what i wanted to know.......i guess next time ill stear clear of the old timer OEM guy(who is knowledgable but always seems to shoot down my ideas---steve)
 
#29 ·
I put the fan in to try to get better mpg. The truck felt like it may have been slightly peppier with an E-fan although that could have been my imagination. I noticed no difference in mpg when I switched, and I have a gauge that gives me instant mileage readout. That was the only reason I was interested in an electric fan.


Your best bet is to use a temperature setting that will make the fan kick on when idling for a few minutes, but shut off shortly after you start moving again. you don't want a setting that will make the fan run while the vehicle is at speed. unfortunately, I don't know that temperature.
also 92truck i have found the switch but it says 91/99*c which is 195/210*f
195.8 / 210.2*f
same part number and everything, doesnt say what thread size either? is there description just wrong? its nice an cheap at $25
If its the temperature you want just buy it and then you can get the adapters you need from a hardware store.
 
#25 ·
I was having the same problem I didn`t know what temps to have the fan start and stop. I now run a 192 thermostat so that in can remain open and the fan does not run (I used to have a 195 but the fan always cycled on and off). Keep in mind too the thermostat doesn`t snap open when it gets too the temp it is rated for it gradually opens. When I stop at a light the fan usually kicks in and I assume the t-stat closes temps drop and than the fan shuts off. When you are moving the fans hardly ever run. The 195 circuit has never had a problem cooling the truck even towing heavy loads in the summer (15,000lbs total weight) I do sometimes unplug the 195 circuit in the winter when it gets really cold.

I run a windstar fan which I got from the jy for about 30bucks and haven`t had any problems.

Some other benefits to the e-fan:
It only runs when needed=much quieter engine, quicker warm (get to closed loop faster)
Way more room between engine and rad-I changed the front seal with out removing the fans!
I have the mpguino installed and when the fans kick in there is no increase in fuel consumption
Better throttle response

Downsides:
Now that you have removed the stock fan shroud there is nothing holding the top rad hose up...I zip tied it to the intake tube, haven`t figured out a permanent solution yet
I didn`t notice any mileage gains:(

Hope that helps
 
#26 ·
sweetness, well as for the radiator hose when i installed it without the shroud i found giving it a good twist towards the pass side which brought it up away from the serp belt then tightened the clamp, then i filled it with coolant and brought it up to temp and it held, the weight of the water wasnt enough to weigh it down so maybe a solution you could check out :thumbup


hey 92truck what vehicle did your fans come off of? it looks like it covers the radiator perfectly with a few notches and it looks like you just used some aluminum angle to mount it?
 
#28 ·
#30 ·
I will have to try rotating the the upper hose!

That looks to be the correct one. It is m14 thread. Those are the temps that the circuits close. Just make sure it is genuine BMW as I bought a cheap one and it only lasted 2 weeks.

The fan is from a ford windstar it almost covers the whole rad, there is maybe an inch or more that is not covered at the bottom.
 
#31 ·
I just finished installing an e-fan so hope this helps:
Lincoln MKVIII fan-$20 @ JY. (Looks exactly like the $300 Black Magics)
40 amp circuit breaker/60 amp relay from Radio Shack $10
10g wiring-any parts store
Temp sensor (200) & T-fitting- $26(sensor) Summit Racing
I removed the old fan & shroud completely & centered the one piece e-fan/shroud on the radiator (It more than covers the required 80%). Fabricated tabs on the bottom to slide into the stock lower clips & used exhaust hangers to secure the top. I also used heater hose as spacers between the shroud & radiator. Zip tied the upper hose to the Idler for clearance. I wired the high speed only. Power to breaker to relay. T-fitting & sensor are in a heater hose.
Works like a charm. According to my research, the e-fan pulls 40 amps @ start up & 25-30 amps while running. I'd rather keep a few $4 relays just in case then buy a $160 variable control relay. My set up is exactly what painless sells for $70. The whole job was easy breezy. The only hard part was I decided to replace the water pump w/ a flow-kooler I got for $50. The fan will only kick on when idling for awhile.
 
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