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post #41 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 11:50 AM
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I'm not the guy to defend the Trump-ster. I almost didn't vote at all, with such miserable prospects.
I agree but we gotta follow what the "Electoral College Folk" vote.
You know, with all their Infinite Wisdom and Enlightenment and such...

My first time Ever not really feeling good about Any of the Candidates that made it to the Actual Nomination.

Oh Crap, Another Sunday Driver.
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post #42 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 01:02 PM
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Can't get much worse from where I stand, everyday I get more bad news in the mail. Cuts here benefieits lost there, no coverage anymore for this and that. I may as well just go to the assisted living center and get it over with.
I feel you, but what you have to understand is that it doesn't matter what obamacare does or doesn't do. Medical costs are out of control. Drug companies are making a killing. How? Because they charge so much. So what's an insurance company going to do? They'll raise rates and cut benefits.
The government allows lobbyists to control policy.
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post #43 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 07:36 PM
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More votes than voters in many Detroit precincts: newspaper - AOL News

Wowie Zowie,,,,
If this does not make Everybody want to "Investigate" what is going on with OUR voting System (Yes, Including the "Russian" thing)
What will?

I actually read a news story that stated the only vote that "Really Counts" is the Electoral Vote.
I should have clicked that into a quick post, but hey, still learning here.

It would be Real Easy to Say "Fake News" and "Go Off" (Been there done that! and Pass)

But I mean Really, at this Point I would like a Clearer Picture of how the Vote Really went.
Trump 400 to Hillarys what 135?
OR
Hillary 400 to Trumps what 135?

Either Way a "Clear Winner" would be fine by me.

While I have my own opinion about the Election,
How are WE as United State Citizens supposed to react to this stuff?

1. the Russians (Or Whoever) Hacking our Systems, is a "National Security" issue!!!
I have Nephews Actively Serving, and "Hell Yes" i Worry about them AND All of Our Kids, it does not matter to me which Party Affiliation!!

2. The Apparent "Miscount" of Votes in Michigan (And Wherever Else?)

Crap, now wheres my meds......

Oh Crap, Another Sunday Driver.
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post #44 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-14-2016, 12:27 AM
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well... we've completely hijacked this thread. White Dragon, you need to learn how to make a new thread for a new topic.
a quick diversion is no biggie... but an ongoing conversation deserves it's own topic, both for clarity and better participation.


I tend to agree about the re-count jazz, somewhat. While it's pathetic that it takes a POTUS-elec. like Trump to get something like this on the front burner, it's also ironically funny to me... as that's part of WHY he got voted into office in the first place. Too much corruption, cronyism, broken system and all that rot.

If Russia interfered with our election process, cyber or otherwise... I would think that qualifies as an act of war. I don't say that lightly.
In fact... I kinda dig Putin. I realize he's a murderous bastard and runs a govt. system that I would fight and die against, but there's just something about the guy that I like.
That said... yea, interfering in the election of the leader of the United States of America... just has to be an act of war.
The real problem with this and most cyber crime, is nailing down verifiable evidence of who's actually responsible.

As for who actually won... well, I voted for Trump for a reason and that still stands so I hope nothing is found that could change that.
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post #45 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-14-2016, 10:51 AM
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Good Morning,

"Thread Hijacking" was not my intent.

That whole Partial recount finding in Michigan just freaked me out.
Not so much about Who is the Winner but more so the fact that it happened.
the ramifications from that are so far reaching...

Oh Crap, Another Sunday Driver.

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post #46 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-25-2016, 08:09 AM
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just copy the browser address out of whatever page your looking to link and paste it in your post.
the board will resolve it and viola, link.


As for the team Trump is putting together... it's starting to feel like we're becoming the Incorporated States of America, rather than the United States of America.
I hate to burst your bubble, but............
The United States Isn't a Country ? It's a Corporation! | Truth Control

If you don't believe me or the article, that's ok. Look it all up for yourself.

Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter. You will meet them doing various things with resolve, but their interest rarely holds because after the other thing ordinary life is as flat as the taste of wine when the taste buds have been burned off your tongue - Ernest Hemingway.
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post #47 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-25-2016, 09:38 AM
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Trump might have save 1100 jobs but that's a piss in the bucket compared to the shambles the American public has put itself in. And yes it is the generall public who put us here, when you went to a store it used to be product A was made in America, product B was made in some Cheap crap from some other country. People wanted cheap so they bough product B, a prime example of this is Harbor Freight, cheap crap for cheap prices. I always bought American tools and product as soon as I had a buck in my pocket and knew how to spend it. I knew the ramifications of buying foreign products as a child because I was taught that and my father worked in a factory.



I might add I still buy American products, yes it costs more to make and is more expensive but I feel like I am getting a serviceable quality product rather than some throw away junk. One example of this would be I always have used Edelbrock products, the castings are made here, the machine work is done here. Weiland on the other hand ( and I know I am stepping in doo door here ) is junk made in Aisha. Same with Proform, I buy Moroso, Canton, or other products the part is just plain better made. It fits properly, ports and bolt holes line up and castings are heavier and less porous. Better stuff and more work for us.
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post #48 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-25-2016, 09:58 AM
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I hate to burst your bubble, but............
The United States Isn't a Country ? It's a Corporation! | Truth Control

If you don't believe me or the article, that's ok. Look it all up for yourself.
Gee maybe that's why Aussies have a huge import tax, keep you working. I like the system over there, they got the right idea, I will pay more for a better life than less for a crappy one.
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post #49 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-25-2016, 06:25 PM
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Gee maybe that's why Aussies have a huge import tax, keep you working. I like the system over there, they got the right idea, I will pay more for a better life than less for a crappy one.
Things are as bad, or worse here, Mate. Our oversized useless govt thinks we are cattle to be traded back and forth at their will. They ignore us just like your govt does there. Also, we are only 23 mil, so it will be easier to over-run us when it goes bad (and it will).

Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter. You will meet them doing various things with resolve, but their interest rarely holds because after the other thing ordinary life is as flat as the taste of wine when the taste buds have been burned off your tongue - Ernest Hemingway.
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post #50 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-26-2016, 12:16 AM
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Guess things are rough all over my friend, some day I hope to go down under.
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post #51 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-26-2016, 06:33 AM
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Guess things are rough all over my friend, some day I hope to go down under.
It's all smoke and mirrors. Everyone is too busy trying to make ends meet, addicted to falsebook and twatter, thinking it will all go away if they ignore it all. I'm just trying to cut myself loose from the financial system and free myself from as much slavery as I can (under the radar).
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Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter. You will meet them doing various things with resolve, but their interest rarely holds because after the other thing ordinary life is as flat as the taste of wine when the taste buds have been burned off your tongue - Ernest Hemingway.
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post #52 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-26-2016, 09:53 AM
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Not too long ago side work was easy to find, now I couldn't find anything to do even if I could.
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post #53 of 70 (permalink) Old 12-26-2016, 11:55 AM
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I don't normally dive into political waters, that being said.

I see Trumps deal with carrier as a positive Re-enforcement to his proposals about taxing companies that go overseas or cross-borders. You can't threaten these companies with leaving and not give them solid reasons to stay other than "made in america is better", that doesnt pay bills. Now I doubt that every potential mover gets met with incentives like carrier did, but it seems to send the message that the goverment will be willing to shake hands and throw these people a bone for keeping it on home soil.
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post #54 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 10:22 AM
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Hello. Resident shit-disturber here.

Macy's has announced it is closing 100 stores and laying off 10,000.
http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/04/bu...offs.html?_r=0

Why isn't President Elect Trump doing something about this?

Are retail sales jobs (10,000) not as important as air conditioner manufacturing jobs (1100)?

Hmmm. Interesting to ponder.

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post #55 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 03:59 PM
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Companies that don't serve the public, deserve to go out of business. Macy's is not making enough money (selling enough product) to support its business model.
That is different than moving a company offshore (or Mexico, or wherever).

GM should not have been bailed out, Packard wasn't bailed out, Studebaker wasn't bailed out. They made products that people didn't buy, and suffered the consequences of their actions.
Get government out of bailing out failing businesses (Solyndra was mentioned earlier, a fricking fortune of my tax dollars down the drain.) Remember, the government doesn't have any money that didn't come from the people (except for the printing of new bills, which is inflationary.) The government has already spent $19 TRILLION more than it has taken in. Try doing one ten hundredth millionth of that and see what happens to your situation.
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post #56 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 04:32 PM
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Companies that don't serve the public, deserve to go out of business. Macy's is not making enough money (selling enough product) to support its business model.
That is different than moving a company offshore (or Mexico, or wherever).

GM should not have been bailed out, Packard wasn't bailed out, Studebaker wasn't bailed out. They made products that people didn't buy, and suffered the consequences of their actions.
Get government out of bailing out failing businesses (Solyndra was mentioned earlier, a fricking fortune of my tax dollars down the drain.) Remember, the government doesn't have any money that didn't come from the people (except for the printing of new bills, which is inflationary.) The government has already spent $19 TRILLION more than it has taken in. Try doing one ten hundredth millionth of that and see what happens to your situation.
Companies that don't serve the public deserve to go out of business?

What, are we East Germany now?

A company is not in business to 'serve the public', a company is in business to turn a profit, and make it's shareholders money and when companies are singled out and given tax breaks, where other companies in that market are not, that company gets an advantage.

And who's job is it to determine which companies 'serve the public'?

Who's to say that Macy's wouldn't be able to turn a profit and be more competitive in the market if it was favored over other companies and given tax breaks like Carrier was?

My point is. Presidents, and certainly Presidents Elect, have no business showing favoritism and meddling in markets.

A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a higher degree of both. - Milton Friedman -
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post #57 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 04:56 PM
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That's a good point Rico but we both voted for a-hole number one and that was part of his promised deal, like it or not (which, I didn't and still don't).

It's much easier to pick out the problems with the way things are, than it is to come up with solutions that stay within' the free-market ideals when we are competing in a global market and manufacturing can be had in other countries for peanuts, compared to American wages and benefits.

Shareholders don't give a rat's ass for the most part, as long as they get the maximum returns on their investment. Too many of us have learned that lesson first hand.
*snip*

The truth is... this should have never been a government problem. The American poor... er, people have spoken and sadly, they(we) are willing to pay lower prices for inferior products and can't afford to have pride in the "Made in America" label. I'm just as guilty as anyone else but it's hard to argue when I can buy 5 tools from Harbor Freight for the price of a single one, through Craftsman, Snap-On or a couple others and still not actually know if it was made in Mexico, Taiwan, China, Japan or timbuck-freakin-too.

I try to buy Made in America products when I can... but living on SSDI, it's no where near as often as I'd like and I know I'm not alone.

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post #58 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 08:33 PM
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Companies that don't serve the public deserve to go out of business?

What, are we East Germany now?

A company is not in business to 'serve the public', a company is in business to turn a profit, and make it's shareholders money and when companies are singled out and given tax breaks, where other companies in that market are not, that company gets an advantage.

And who's job is it to determine which companies 'serve the public'?

Who's to say that Macy's wouldn't be able to turn a profit and be more competitive in the market if it was favored over other companies and given tax breaks like Carrier was?

My point is. Presidents, and certainly Presidents Elect, have no business showing favoritism and meddling in markets.
You misunderstood what I said, by "serve the public", I meant that they didn't provide the product or service that the public wanted to BUY. Most buggy whip companies went out of business, along with sealing wax. Not enough demand, and if that's the business, then either change or fail.

Macy's is not the only company closing stores, Sears/KMart, and just this week the Limited announced store closing. That Internet thing (that your boy Al Gore invented) is changing how we shop. (This Christmas I bought gifts from both Macy's and Sears, ONLINE. Why fight the crowds? )

Macy's doesn't need tax breaks to long term survive, they need to evolve. The ultimate retail evolution could be Walmart.com for everything retail. Maybe Amazon will share.

There are some food stores (Kroger here in Michigan) where you can order all your food online and they will pick it for you, next evolution they will deliver it. Then they won't need that 40,000 sq.ft building.

Like it or not, autonomous cars are coming, and some libtard from the left coast will outlaw driving. You'll have to use that self-driving Chevy Bolt, or just stay home and have everything delivered to you.

I think we're arguing the same point.

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post #59 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 11:12 AM
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[/QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerPepe` View Post
That's a good point Rico but we both voted for a-hole number one and that was part of his promised deal, like it or not (which, I didn't and still don't).
Neither one of us waived our rights to criticize and hold Trump accountable to Constitutional principles by voting for him.


Quote:
The truth is... this should have never been a government problem. The American poor... er, people have spoken and sadly, they(we) are willing to pay lower prices for inferior products and can't afford to have pride in the "Made in America" label. I'm just as guilty as anyone else but it's hard to argue when I can buy 5 tools from Harbor Freight for the price of a single one, through Craftsman, Snap-On or a couple others and still not actually know if it was made in Mexico, Taiwan, China, Japan or timbuck-freakin-too.
Why is this sad?...and why the guilt? Do you not like having choices? If you all of the sudden became wealthy, would you totally stop going to HF. No. Harbor Freight does not just sell to poor slobs like you and me. Many 'Rich' (man I hate speaking in Marxist, class warfare terms) people shop at HF as well because they find products that meet their needs.
A quick google search shows that Harbor Freight has 700 stores providing 17,000 jobs. This is good. But, I suppose Craftsman (who was just purchased by Stanley Black and Decker) Matco, Snap-on etc. could all get together and lobby congress to take Protectionist actions against the goods HF purchases (tariffs) in order to 'save jobs'. And it would save a few American jobs. Possibly. It would definitely cause HF to close some stores, fire some employees, and raise prices, thus effecting many more people indirectly than the select few America jobs that are going to be saved. This is what Protectionism does. Benefits a few, at the expense of the many.


Quote:
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You misunderstood what I said, by "serve the public", I meant that they didn't provide the product or service that the public wanted to BUY. Most buggy whip companies went out of business, along with sealing wax. Not enough demand, and if that's the business, then either change or fail.

Macy's is not the only company closing stores, Sears/KMart, and just this week the Limited announced store closing. That Internet thing (that your boy Al Gore invented) is changing how we shop. (This Christmas I bought gifts from both Macy's and Sears, ONLINE. Why fight the crowds? )
Quote:
Macy's doesn't need tax breaks to long term survive, they need to evolve.
Could it not be said then that Carrier, in an effort to evolve and change because of onerous costs and regulations in the U.S., was moving a plant to Mexico? Now, because they received special treatment from the Fed Govt in the way of tax breaks and incentives, they don't need to.



Quote:
There are some food stores (Kroger here in Michigan) where you can order all your food online and they will pick it for you, next evolution they will deliver it. Then they won't need that 40,000 sq.ft building.

Like it or not, autonomous cars are coming, and some libtard from the left coast will outlaw driving. You'll have to use that self-driving Chevy Bolt, or just stay home and have everything delivered to you.

I think we're arguing the same point.
I'm sure we agree more than disagree. And your point about companies needing to evolve and adapt to be profitable is well taken. I was just playing devils advocate and poising a question. If Trump can save Jobs for Carrier, why not Macy's. Why does it matter if the job is moving off-shore or south of the border? Jobs are Jobs, are they not? People need to feed their kids. Whether it's a Macy's exec in Seattle feeding their kids toasted rye rounds and brie for lunch, or a Carrier union hump in Indiana feeding their kids juice boxes and lunchables. Mr. Trump has no business, let alone Constitutional authority to intercede, beyond implementing policy.
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post #60 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 04:11 PM
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Could it not be said then that Carrier, in an effort to evolve and change because of onerous costs and regulations in the U.S., was moving a plant to Mexico? Now, because they received special treatment from the Fed Govt in the way of tax breaks and incentives, they don't need to.
"Never let the fact get in the way of a good argument"

Carrier getting $7M in tax breaks from Indiana to keep jobs:
The company that owns Carrier will receive $7 million worth of tax breaks over 10 years from Indiana to keep 1,000 jobs in the state, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.Dec 1, 2016

Carrier got tax breaks from INDIANA, not the federal government. No "special treatment" from the federal government.

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