New build and motor choices - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
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New build and motor choices

Hey, long time bronco guy new to this forum. I recently bought my 4th Bronco, a 1986 with a 302 and automatic. Not sure on the trans. My goal for this build would be a Bronco speed/ daily driver. I have a few buddies that have Raptors and I am looking to keep up or out perform them. Planning on wrapping the 86 in Fiberwerx Bronco Raptor conversion. Upgrade the suspension with Solo, or AutoFab. But to start the build I need to nail down an engine trans combo. Luckily I have plenty of options.

As previously mentioned the 86 has a 302 already in it. I am not sure about the condition but when the truck was purchased, as with all trucks sold that aren't running "it was recently rebuilt". Other than those words I am not sure on its capabilities or condition as the truck currently has a short and is frying ignitions.

The next option is a 460 that I had rebuilt from a previous build that was never completed. The 460 was bored .30 over heads were ported and treated to a 3 angle valve job, roller rockers, ThunderJet cam, Keith Black flat top Pistons, weiland dual plane stealth intake and a full msd setup. The upside to this engine is the hp potential and I know what it has and that it was built correctly. I also have a rebuilt C6 with a shift kit and an 2000 stall torque converter with a NP205 bolted behind it. The downside to this engine for the purposes of my build I'm guessing would be the extra weight.

The third option is while negotiating this deal the guy who sold me the Bronco daughters boyfriend through in a cut up f150 2wd that once again had a "recently rebuilt " 351w. The truck had been sitting for over a year as the boyfriend had cut everything from the cab back in hopes to cage the rear and three link it. He had set the f150 up for prerunning and had done some legit fab on the truck. The 351 is said to have 408 hp with a mild cam and a few other unspecific mods. The other thing of note is the 351 has a "recently rebuilt" C6 with a manual valve body and a shift kit. Also thrown in was the original E4OD that was behind the 351.

All engines are setup for carbs. I have searched and read enough in the forum to see that the debate between 351 and 460 is never ending. If I went with the 351 I would not be opposed to rebuilding or at least refreshing the engine. It would of course eat into the build. The other thing to consider was my original purpose for buying this project was to drop the 460 that I had sitting in my garage into something and along the way I acquired another option for my particular build.

If I run the 460 I know there is about a 200 lbs weight difference but will that 200 lbs affect performance that much? Also with the 460, I assume it will be easier or already accomplished, with how the 460 has been setup, to out perform the 6.2 Raptor motor.

Just wondering what the collective opinion is on my many options. Thanks for any input.
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 05:07 PM
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I do not think the weight difference is that big of a deal. Also a mild 351 is no were near 400hp, be lucky to get 350 out of a decently built one, especially one catered around the needs of a fullsize truck and not a mustang. Now if its a 408 stroker with some aluminum heads then I could see it...
The 460 you have on the other hand should be 350-400hp+ the way it sits and at least that in torque also, and it should be able to do it reliably all day. I think If I had these choices I would go with the big block. Especially since you have not gotten any suspension pieces and those could be ordered with the weight of that engine in mind.
I do think the 351 or 302 would be easier to build into the project as those engines came in these trucks already so there are parts that fit them accordingly, like headers and that kind of thing.


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Build Thread http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/...8-project.html
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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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The 408 striker is something I have been looking at if I go the 351w route but then again I am looking at $1500 for the kit plus the cost of the rebuild but at the end I would know what I had and it would be a great setup as well. For that, how do you think the reliability would be on the 408? How would the hp and torque numbers look compared to my 460?
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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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And what are the thoughts on the manual valve body C6 vs the regular C6?
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 07:22 PM
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408 is a strong motor if built right, we built one for our boat puts out 410hp and 400tq going on 5 years with only regular maintenance. only thing about the 408 strokers is that the walls between the cylinders are super thin, we blew 2 sets of head gaskets within the first year while we were still getting all the bugs out, i would lean towards the 460 IMO plenty of room there to go bigger and more powerful there, while still remaining reliable, where as the 408 you cant get much bigger than that using the stock block.

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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
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Another question on using the 460 is I have noticed a lot of discussion in the forum on how involved the swap is into the bronco. When I originally set out to build this engine I had read that the swap was fairly straightforward aside from different motor mounts and radiator. What other considerations are there? Some of what I have been reading might also be from the perspective of gathering and building the engine, then getting the ignition and cooling system. I have everything except the radiator and carb. Are there any other obstacles other than sourcing the parts?
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-18-2015, 11:51 AM
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I like the 460 idea. With either a good off-road carb. Or aftermarket injection. NO on the C-6. You want overdrive in my opinion for cruising the pavement and better mileage LOL. I have a C-6 in mine,wishing I had overdrive. 4.10 gears don't help though. build up a Big block E-4od . They are able to build them up strong now. Use a standalone trans computer like fast or others.jmho. Oh I had spoke with Quick Fuel and they would build me a custom off-road carb for $700 bucks.
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-18-2015, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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I'm even more optimistic about the 460 performance. I found an episode of Spike's Engine Power last night where they did a budget 460 build. All stock rotating assembly and unmodified heads, with the same intake I have and a comp cam, they made 386 hp and 490 torque. I should be better that that with my head modifications and MSD setup.
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-18-2015, 04:24 PM
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can you put up a link to that please?

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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-19-2015, 07:41 AM
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A must read for the 460!! Best guideline there is. Written from knowledge from actual use and testing.
Take your time read the whole thing and you will be pleasantly reward with a great 460 combo.
http://www.429-460.com/t121-big-bloc...ed-by-djohagin
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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-19-2015, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-19-2015, 11:02 AM
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Raptors are quite heavy. They are about 1600lbs heavier than your Bronco, going by curb weight. (5888 vs 4267) With proper gearing, you do not need to build as powerful of a motor, to keep up with with a heavy raptor.

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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-19-2015, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Any companies recommended for beefing the E4OD?
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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 12:03 PM
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http://www.transmissioncenter.net/ PATC transmission. Or maybe Monster transmission. Or maybe Steve Culhane . He builds or built some of Robby Gordons race automatics. He recommended to me converting to a modded 4L80 chevy trans. Kinda spendy swap though.
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-10-2015, 03:41 PM
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500 ft. lbs. of torque with stock heads and flat cam. Wonder what aluminum CJ heads and a hydraulic roller cam could do.

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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-10-2015, 04:59 PM
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Hydraulic rollers are a waste of money in a BBF. Also due to the increased seat height in the lifter it can create so problems with pushrod angles.
Top BBF engine builders will tell you the gain per dollar is just not there like in other motors.
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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-10-2015, 05:05 PM
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Yes the power is easier to make, with a BB, but it would be far easier, of an install, to stick with a 351w. I found this to be interesting to watch.

http://www.powerblocktv.com/episode/...1#.VckR_PlVhBc

http://www.powerblocktv.com/episode/...2#.VckSGflVhBc

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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-11-2015, 08:30 AM
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If you want real power, you need top quality stuff, or it will just tear up on you. I would suggest a 408 stroker build based on something like this.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMS-RACING-4...5baacd&vxp=mtr



With the proper heads/cam/carb you can easily make this do 400+ Ft/lb of torque.

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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-11-2015, 11:42 PM
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If you can't get 400 ft/lbs of torque out of a very mild 460 then you need to throw it away and buy barbie dolls. If 400 ft/lbs is all you want then you will time and dollars ahead of the game with a BBF. Stock 2 bolt block is good for over 750hp without the need for any kind of main girdle.
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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-13-2015, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly Heaven View Post
Hydraulic rollers are a waste of money in a BBF. Also due to the increased seat height in the lifter it can create so problems with pushrod angles.
Top BBF engine builders will tell you the gain per dollar is just not there like in other motors.
Roller cams have tremendous advantages over flat tappet cams. I've never been a believer in solid lift cams for street vehicles. That's why I said hydraulic roller. That said, you are totally right imho. Large displacement engine don't suffer the negative effects of high lift high duration cams to the same degree as smaller engines do, which takes away some of the advantages of a roller cam.

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