Extended Cut & Turned Beams - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
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Extended Cut & Turned Beams

Okay, I am finally starting my latest project. It is to setup a pair of extended Cut and Turned beams.

Currently, my '96 has:

In the rear

Deaver J40s
Camburg extended shackes
Homebrew Shackle drop
14" Bilstein short body resevoir 7100s
Homebrew raised shock mounts
Homebrew anti-wrap bar
F150 rear disc brakes

In the front

'78 F150 buckets
Deaver Superflex springs
F-250 Shock Towers
12" Bilstein short body reservoir 7100s
Camburg Radius Arms
Solo C&T beams

Everything works great except the 35" tires rub on the radius arms when I turn the wheel all the way in either direction. I have a spare set of beams laying around and I've decided to extend them each about 1 1/2" on each side, turn them for proper camber and plate the heck out of them. You can see in the pictures that the plating has already commenced.

This may take a while, but I decided to go ahead and document it as I go. I already installed uniballs in the beams and did not take any pictures along the way so you will have to go elsewhere for that info. Here is the jig I made to hold the beams while I perform the surgery. My lift is already in and where I want it, so I just measured the relative positions of the beam pivot points and the height off the ground of each beam. I used a 3/4" rod with 0* bushings to set the caster at 6* while I tacked it all in place. There is nothing magical about 6*, it just happens to be where the first one naturally sat after I bolted it all up. I just needed a reference point so that they both get tacked in the jig at the same caster setting and then when I put the ends back on I know that 6* caster will put me back to stock. The caster is actually determined by the radius arm. However, I can (and may) add a couple degrees of extra caster when I weld the ends back on. As long as both sides are the same it should be fine.

I have already pulled the axles from my truck and I have a spare set of knuckes to do the setup. I still need to pull the pumpkin and install it on the driver's side beam so I can get the ball joints-axle-pumpkin relationship correct. By cutting the ends of the beams all the way off (which you have to do to extend them) I should not need to clock the pumpkin.

You can get an idea for how bad the camber would be off with these stock beams in the last photo where the knuckle is attached.

The jig looks pretty flimsy but it is actually quite rigid. You can easily pick the whole thing up, beams and all, and nothing moves. It is hard to see in the pictures but there are bars tacked to the top of each beam and also welded to the pivot mount of the other beam that locks the beam caster in place. The angle iron holding the beams ends up off the floor is simply bolted into the lower radius arm bolt hole. Let me know if you see any flaws in my approach. I'd rather have a bruised ego and avoid a big mistake than keep the old ego in tact and have to start grinding off welds. A fried once told me my ego is not my amigo.

Baxter









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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
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I went ahead and pulled the pumpkin off my truck and got it installed on the jig. That will be it for today. Next I will tackle lengthening the axles.

I am thinking 1.5" on each side. I would like to go out as far as possible without needing to modify the fenders. Does anyone know what the max beam extension is with 35s and stock fenders?

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 08:08 PM
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Subbed! Nice work so far - you're a braver man than I!
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 10:06 PM
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Just my luck!!!! I was just looking for a forum on this. Please put all details up and tell us measurements on EVERYTHINGG!!! Will be back everyday haha
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panabax View Post
I am thinking 1.5" on each side. I would like to go out as far as possible without needing to modify the fenders. Does anyone know what the max beam extension is with 35s and stock fenders?
Baxter
You mean how much you can extend the beams before your tires stick out from the face of the fender? First how wide are the 35's? I would assume 12.5". Even in stock form that size tire will usually stick out a tiny bit. The other factor is your wheel backspacing. So a number of factors here but I would say a standard wheel/35" tire package will be almost flush with the plane of the fender, if not sticking out a touch. So adding 1.5" I would guestimate your tires will be out about 1.5".
What are you doing for your axle shafts?

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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 09:47 AM
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Following this now -- it's exactly what I'm going for.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 12:40 AM Thread Starter
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OK, I made a little progress tonight. I did some trigonometry and determined that when my tire gets all the way to the bottom of the fender, it will have moved in almost 2" as a result of the camber change. It currently sits just inside the fender so I decided to go ahead and take my chances with an extra 1 1/2" on the axles. I have to get the driver's side axle done before I can cut and turn the driver's side beam. Hopefully I can make some more progress this weekend.

I have a spare set of axles laying around, so I will use them both in order to make one set of extended axles. Generally, I think a lot of folks just cut, extend and sleeve the axles. I'm sure that's fine. However, since I have a spare set, I decided to cut them both, turn one down on the lathe so it has a smaller diameter for about 1/2" and then drill the other so they will fit together snug. This is not so much for strength, but to help make sure they are lined up and straight. I know most of you probably don't have lathes in your garage so probably you should just sleeve them.

Anyway, here are the pictures of the driver's side axle in process. The stock axle is 16.5" end to end. You will see my new axle is now 18" end to end. I also turned down the rust on the outside of the axle to 1.325" and I will also sleeve it with some chromoly tube.

This is the original axle.





Here is the joined axle on the lathe getting tack welded.



Her's the finished product. It is straight as an arrow.





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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 12:59 AM
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Nice work!
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 12:30 PM
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i would consult the members on gofastbroncos with questions about prerunner stuff. Thats all we do over there if you have a question about anything someones got the answer

1989 XLT 5.8 C6 Threat C&T, Solo Radius Arms, Bilsteins, PRPs, 35s
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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i would consult the members on gofastbroncos with questions about prerunner stuff. Thats all we do over there if you have a question about anything someones got the answer
Agreed about gofastbroncos. It is a much richer source of information on this type of build. I have read nearly every thread over there and got some really good feedback on my question about how far I could likely extend the beams with the stock fenders. I just decided to post my C&T build thread here since the questions come up regularly here but are never very adequately answered. Plus, if I post it here it will take like three years to roll off the first page.

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 01:26 PM
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LOL true, just wanted to make sure you were aware of that page.

1989 XLT 5.8 C6 Threat C&T, Solo Radius Arms, Bilsteins, PRPs, 35s
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-25-2017, 04:09 AM Thread Starter
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I made a little more progress. I put my extended axle back together. I measured the caster on my driver's side beam, just to be sure. I assembled the unit with the knuckle. As you can see in the pictures, the axle now sticks out about 1.5" too far. You can also see how far off the camber is with 0* bushings. I measured it at 10*. So, that is what I am going to shoot for by way of correction, 10*.

Since I do not plan to clock the diff, I need to rotate the end of the beam around the center point of the axle as it passes through the knuckle. Basically, if you draw a line between the ball joints and a second line along the center of the axle, where these lines meet is where I want to pivot the beam. So, after measuring, I got my trig functions out and did some more math.

By my measurements, the space between the ball joints is 8" and the center of the axle actually passes through the knuckle about 3" above the bottom ball joint (measured from the bottom of each ball joint socket. That means my point of rotation is not midway between the ball joints, but rather 3" up from the bottom. So, by my reckoning, I will want to push the portion of the beam which is 3" above the bottom ball joint out 1.5". I will then rotate the whole assembly 10* around that point. If my math is correct, the top will move back in .88" and the bottom will kick out .53" to get the 10*. Accordingly, I will make a pair of spacers to tack into place as I set it up. The top will be 1.5" - .88" = .62" or 5/8". The bottom will be 1.5" + .53" = 2". That should get me close enough that if I tack them in place without too much weld I should be able to use a BFH to massage the end of the beam into perfect alignment. I will match the original caster measured at the ball joints and install the knuckle to make sure the camber is corrected and the u joints are perfectly centered. At least that's the plan.

However, it's too late now to start cutting. I would surely mess something up if I started hacking this late.







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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-25-2017, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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I made a lot of progress today on the driver's side beam. In fact, it is finished except for the plating. Originally, my plan was not to clock the diff. However, when I got it all assembled, the axle was coming out very low in the beam and, to make it line up, I was going to have to drop the end portion about 3/4" below the main beam. I did not like the way that was going to look and I did not want to add another 3/4" in ride height so I decided to clock the diff. I'm glad I did. It made the setup much easier. It turns out my trigonometry was right on the mark. When I got it all tacked together with the 5/8" plate on top and the 2" plate on bottom, my camber came in right at 0*. I drilled holes in the diff next to the existing holes in order to clock the diff. It really only needs to move about 1/2 to 3/4 of the diameter of the hole to line up so I kind of over did it. No worries. I will bolt it all back together with fender washers and then weld the washers in place to fix the bolt hole locations. I also cut off the side tab for the diff and re-welded it after I clocked it. I will eventually weld a single plate over the outside of the beam in the front and back just to make sure all the strength I need will be there. I am very happy with the way this one turned out. The axle is perfectly centered in the hole in the knuckle. It looks like it is off in the picture but it is not. There is a little play in the axle that allows it to move up, down and side to side about 1/4" or so. The center of the axle play is in the center of the knuckle hole. The u joints are perfectly in line with the ball joints. It should work perfectly, just like Henry designed it.



















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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 12:30 AM Thread Starter
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Okay, I am starting on the passenger side. Here is what it looks like stock. You can see that the camber is off by 12* with a 0* bushing.





It makes sense that the camber would be worse on the passenger side since the passenger side beam is shorter than the driver's side. Therefore, it experiences a more severe camber change than the driver's side. I will need to correct for 12* of camber on this side. My trig worked out so well on the driver's side that I will do it again. Here is how I did the math.

The angle I am working with is 12*. The tangent of an angle is equal to the opposite side divided by the adjacent side. In this exercise, there are two separate triangles. The top triangle is 12* with an adjacent side of 5". The bottom triangle is also 12* but with an adjacent side of 3". That is because I want to rotate the ball joints around the axis of the axle which is not 1/2 way between the ball joints. Rather, it is 3" from the bottom and 5" from the top.

The tangent of 12* = 0.213

The amount the top must move in is therefore 0.213 * 5" = 1.06". Since we are starting at 1.5" out, that means that my top spacer should be 1.5" - 1.06" = 0.44" or 7/16"

The amount the bottom must kick out is 0.213 * 3" = 0.64". Therefore, the bottom spacer will be 1.5" + 0.64" = 2.14" or 2 1/8".

I will cut the spacers tomorrow and cut and turn the passenger beam tomorrow as well. Then I will need to finish plating them. I will need to extend the passenger axle 1.5" and then sleeve both axles. Then paint and I will be done. Of course, my knuckles will be 3" further apart so I will need to compensate for that in the steering linkage. Probably I will cut, extend and sleeve the adjusters on each side. That should be easy enough (famous last words).

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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
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I finished the passenger side beam and plated the fronts of both. I am not going to plate the rears because I think it will interfere with the radius arms. I'm sure they are plenty strong.

All that is left to do is finish cleaning up the diff holes on the driver's beam and then extend the passenger side axle and I think I am done. Here are the pics. Despite my math, when I first test fit it, I had overshot the mark by about 2* so I had to trim a little off the bottom plate.

















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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 11:01 PM
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Baking soda?
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
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Baking soda?
From time to time I have used electrolysis to remove rust from really badly rusted parts. Submerge the parts in a bath of water and baking soda (as an electrolyte) apply a negative charge to the part and a positive charge to a piece of steel submerged in the same bath. The charge (from a car battery or a battery charger) will convert the iron oxide back to iron, turn the rusted parts black and do a number on the anode you place in the tank. It really works great on large parts with a lot of surface rust.

Check out this Link -> electrolysis rust removal

Baxter
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 11:16 PM Thread Starter
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I finished the driver's side beam. Here it is with the fender washers welded in place after clocking the diff. I can't remember where I saw the washer idea. It was probably gofastbroncos. In any event, it sure simplifies the clocking process. It's not the most beautiful piece, but where it is going, looks don't count for too much. Now I just need to paint them and finish the other axle.

Baxter

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