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Molasses project (92)

162K views 736 replies 93 participants last post by  White Dragon 
#1 ·
Well I’m finally starting my build thread. Of course, the name is indicative of the speed of my work. In any case I started over a year ago, so it thread will move a little faster until I catch up. After that, no guarantees. I expect this to take me at least two years to finish. When I was younger, I had lots of time and no money. Now money is not the problem, but finding time is.

This is going to be a major build with one ton SAS and a diesel engine. Not even sure what the final truck will look like, but it started out like this. I got this 92’ for $1100. I had been looking for a Bronco all over and this one turned up less then two miles from my house. It has the same driveline as my DD. It runs great and is fairly rust free.





This is the same truck stripped to the frame after a lot of work with a high speed wire wheel and a few cans of rustolium. I also removed the body mounts because if I install the stock body it will be moved back. I have several ideas concerning the body, but for now I concentrating on the driveline.



The obglatory photo. I wish this was from my DD. (Maybe later)

 
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#2 ·
I got a some axles from a 2007’ F250 Superduty. At least, that’s what the yard told me. I started with the front axle. I told the yard to get the radius arm mounts off the SD without ruining them. They torched the frame about 3” in front and back of the mounts. So I had to drill out the rivets. One thing I noticed was the SD frame is .270” thick. This Bronco frame is .210” thick.

I started by measuring several times and then drilling one ¼” hole. Bolted that and then measured again. LOL



Note the angle on top of the frame. I didnt weld this on. The rest of the truck was stock except exhaust. I dont know why this is there. I couldnt see any damage anywhere.


With the back bolted solid (1/2” grade 8’s) you can see that the frame seems to be a little narrower. Some other guys put spacers in here. I decided to just bolt it to the frame and let the rubber bushing take the misalignment. If it gives me problems, I can space it out later.

 
#6 ·


Note the angle on top of the frame. I didnt weld this on. The rest of the truck was stock except exhaust. I dont know why this is there. I couldnt see any damage anywhere.
Seems like I read somewhere on here that the angle was put on broncos that had an e4od transmission.
 
#4 ·
These are the stock springs. The perches are off the TTB. It’s funny the stock bolts were not long enough to hold the perch. But the TTB axle pivot bolts were exactly the right size. In any case, I might be changing the sprigs/perches in the future. (maybe even the buckets) But for now, it’s OK.




 
#666 ·
I'm looking at a '13 Dana front axle.


Questions:
1) You had said you used hardware from the TTB to mount the lower springs; is that correct?

2) I noticed what appears to be a shock mount next to the coil spring perch.
Did you add that?

3) What did you do/how would you do mounts?



Any and all suggestions and tips to get said axle mounted would greatly be appreciated. :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy
 
#5 ·
400 cans of Rustoleum couldnt make my frame look that good. Damn I hate the rust belt. Good luck on the build.
 
#7 ·
Yea, I would have never sold my 88' Bronco except for the rust. (I lived in Canada for awhile) I bought my DD out of New Mexico. I was able to unbolt the rear springs eazy. This truck is almost as good. It was a Florida truck it's whole life and not close to the beach. Still I would have prefured to sand blast the frame. But my compressor is not up to it and there is no one local that does it.
 
#9 ·
Looks good man. The angle of those coils worry me however. Ttb coils are alot stiffer than solid axle coils because of the leverage that ttb puts on them.

The coil buckets on the sd axle are way too far out. Look at what I had to do to mine to get them where I want them.

I had some ttb coils laying around and they fit perfectly into the sd coil buckets.....I was tempted, believe me lol

You're off to a good start, i guess I got something to watch on fsb for the next two years.:thumbup
 
#11 ·
I had to modify the frame side trac bar mount. (off the superduty)





The ear on the left was just hitting a frame rivet. The hole next to it lined up with another frame rivet. (drilled it out and bolted with a grade 8) After that I had to elongate the right hole to make room for a bolt inside the frame rail.

 
#12 ·
Here it is installed. Note access hole in frame rail. I know it looks like I didnt have to cut off the other two bolt holes. I've seen it done, but then you have to cut the crossmember alot. The mount is alot stronger then the crossmember, so I cut it.





Another angle.

 
#13 ·
I made this dolly to roll the frame around. Even though the wheels are rated for the weight, It's hard as h*ll to roll it around. I may have to buy some 8 lug take off's just to make it eazy to work on the frame.

Note the grade 8's in the rad-arm mounts.

 
#14 ·
This is what I ended up doing to the stock (one piece) trac bar to make it adjustable. I did some searching and found that the superduty has some problems with the axle not being centered on stock springs. They sell bars like this, but they want too much.

The bar is fordged and not eazy to work with. But I was able to drill and tap for 7/8". I chose that thred because they make rodends in that size. So I might be able to use the tools for my three link in the back. Also, I might put a rodend in that end.

 
#15 ·
The stock trac bar goes to a balljoint on the axle. The ball joint is installed down with the bar on the bottom. This creates quite an angle which is not paralell to the draglink. Even the simpleminded people on this site understand that the tracbar and steering draglink shopuld be paralell and close to the same length. I wish someone would tell the Ford engineers.

I'm probubly going "full hydro" on the steering, so paralell doesnt matter. But also it is advisable to make the tracbar as horizontal as possible. So I installed the ball joint up. Of course this ment I had to buy a reamer to ream the trac bar. It also gives me the dreaded "hourglass" hole. I have the same thing in my DD tierod ends. It hasnt caused a problem yet. (Of course the reamer for the tierods was not big enough for the tracbar)




 
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#16 ·
On the rear I got a 10.5 Sterling. My plan is to go three link eventually. But I would like to get this thing rolling as fast as possible, so I figured i would bolt it in with the stock leaf springs.



The spring plates are from the Superduty. The U-bolts and nuts are from the Bronco. The axle is a little bigger in diameter so I had to spread the u-bolts.

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#20 ·
Yea, it's just Ford engine blue I had left over from when I painted the engine. If you think that's bright, you should see the wheels. I told the wheel guy I wanted Ford blue. He said we have a powder coat that matches. They turned out electric blue. I'll have pics on soon.
 
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#25 ·
1. Strength- To SAS a D44 TTB for a D44 is not gaining enough strength to make it worth it. In fact, if you don’t truss the solid axle, you will actually lose some. Of course if you put D60’s or bigger, you gain in this department.
You are incorrect here Sir... A sold D44 is slightly more strong than the TTB version because of one simple reason.. And that is the center u-joint in the TTB. That center u-joint is the main failure point of TTB's, which is why everyone swaps out the D50 stub shaft...

Also, the tube walls on a solid D44 are still 0.25" thick, where even your stock 8.8 in the back is only .188 wall. So it's not the axle tube you need to be worried about (unless your jumping it, but i wont even get into that)

2. Flex- This is the big myth. While a SAS will allow you build in more flex, it’s the importance of flex that I argue. If it’s off road ability that you seek, your money is better spent on tires and lockers. I stand by my statement “I have never seen a truck stuck because of lack of flex”
I will prove that statement wrong, right now...



This picture was taken when i still had my sway bars on... Now, if they would have not been on, then my rear axle would have been able to stuff more, and my front would have been able to droop out more, thus putting my front tire on the ground and providing me with traction.

Massive flex does have some benefits and some serious drawbacks. Depending on your terrain, it could be for you. But for people to make blanket statements like “remove your swaybars for offroad” is stupid. If you cant understand how swaybars can prevent a rollover on a side hill, you need to study basic physics.
Again... Your wrong. That 'blanket' statement is true for any type of low speed off road... It's obvious that you dont understand how a sway bar works... It's not for preventing roll over's in a sidehill, it's for preventing roll overs on flat ground while moving at speed, because it puts pressure on the opposite side of the vehicle... A sway bar will actually increase the chances of an off road roll over while on a side hill, because the sway bars will want to keep the truck parallel to the ground, and if your on a side hill, then that means your going to roll.

There is a reason why NO off road rig uses a sway bar. You dont see Shannon Campbell in his rig, winning KOH after KOH, with sway bars, do you? Or ANY other successful off road rig.

I’m doing this SAS to gain strength (D60 & Sterling) and to improve steering.
Perfect. To gain strength, that's excellent... But what do you mean "improve steering"?? There are multiple ways you can improve the steering on a TTB.
 
#28 ·
Back to the build.

I wanted 20 by 14 wheels. I got these double beadlock wheels from Starzworks. The wheels are two halves that bolt together. The beadlocks are two plastic hoops that snap together. It’s all of very good quality, but are somewhat difficult to assemble.



First you have to put the beadlocks inside the tire. This was the hard part. The tire sidewalls have to be spread. To do this I hung the tire by the sidewall. The weight of the tire only spread it about a ½”. I needed about 5” more. So I hooked ratchet straps on the bottom sidewall and secured it to my tractor. I had a scale on the chain. It took about 500 lbs. to spread it far enough. Then I had to stand on the bucket and push the two halves of the beadlock in. Since they are bigger then the opening, I had to egg shape them to get them in. They are about 3/4'” thick plastic and don’t bend easy.



Then you have to maneuver them together inside the tire. Once I got them close, I released the pressure spreading the sidewalls. They snapped together fairly easy then. Here you can see the beadlock inside the tire as I lower it on the wheel. I put some dish soap on the beads.



I don’t have any pics of bolting it together. But it required four long allthred bolts to bring the wheel halves close enough to get the regular bolts in.



Now that’s what I’m talking about. LOL. I only got two done. So I’ll have to wait a couple weeks (at work) to put them on the frame.

 
#29 ·
sheesh. If you dont agree with him dont post, your not forced to read the thread.
Cool build bro. I dig that you rock the ttb and are building a solid axle rig as well.
Ill definitely be watching this good luck :thumbup

-Vance
 
#32 ·
Back to the build, again. LOL

I made this disc to convert the Bronco driveshaft to the Sterling flange. It is just a couple bolt patterns with a spicket on one side (for the flange on the Sterling) and a flange on the other. (to go in the driveshaft)

This would be fairly elementry for some of the guys on here, but I'm proud of it. I started with a piece of 5/8" plate about a foot square. Did it all on my lathe and mill. It fits so tight that I had to pop it off with a rubber hammer to paint it.

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I did alot of research on driveshafts and u-joints. The Bronco uses 1330 u-joints. But you can have a 1350 u-joint shaft made that will fit and uses the same bolt patterns and spickets. I'm probubly going that route later. If that is not strong enough, I will use the 1410 u-joint. Then I throw this disc away and make another for the front.

Right now I'm cutting the Bronco driveshaft down. I would like to move the engine/trans/transfer back as far as possible. As it turns out, that is only about 5" at the trans mount. I'm using a C-6 and a Cummins 4BT, so they will be shorter then the stock 351/e40d. It should put the front of the engine about at the rear of the crossmember.
 
#34 ·
Yea, that's what I've heard. This little Cummins has about the same torque numbers as a V8 and way less HP numbers. The only thing is the power and torque is at a lower RPM. I remember from my engineering days that the faster a shaft turns, the more power it can transmit. You should see the light chincy driveshafts on some of the helicopters I work with. They handle lots of power at ridiculas speeds.

I may do a little mild tuning to the 4BT. Unless the power is terriable, then I'll swap it for a Cummins 6BT. The adapter plate I got from Destroked will bolt up to either one. Thats one of the reasons I want some room in front of the engine. (might need two more cylinders, LOL)
 
#36 ·
I got a couple questions I need some advice on. Maybe it should be in the newbie section, but here goes.

The Superduty axles I have are “hub centric” As apposed to “lug centric”. The stock lug nuts (which I didn’t get) are just a heavy duty nut with a built in washer. I don’t like the exposed threads sticking out, so I ordered some covered “acorn” nuts for Superduty from Ebay. The nuts are the correct metric thread, but they have a tapered bottom.

The wheels I got have no taper. I have done looking since and I can’t seem to find covered nuts with flat bottoms. The wheel manufacturer said some of his customers just toque them on as is without problems. I don’t really like that because the lug would be “drilling” into the wheel. So I have a couple options.

1. I could get a taper reamer to match the lug nuts and ream the holes.


2. I could chuck the nuts in the lathe and trim them flat on the bottom.

Which do you think is better and why?

The other thing I don’t like about these nuts is that they are chrome. The quality is good, I just don’t really like chrome. Does anyone know if gun bluing sticks to chrome?
 
#37 ·
Me personally i would get the right lug nuts for your wheels. The wheels are designed to center themselves on the rib sticking out off the hub, and using tapered nuts could possibly pull them off center. Or they just wont hold the wheel securely and youll find yourself constantly retorquing them. So yeah, id just by the right lug nuts. IMO saving a couple bucks on lug nuts is not worth the risk of having a wheel come off.



Do you mind if i ask why you put a 12" wide tire on a 14" wide wheel? I dont understand how thats a good idea. No wonder they were a PITA to assemble.
 
#40 ·
Me personally i would get the right lug nuts for your wheels. The wheels are designed to center themselves on the rib sticking out off the hub, and using tapered nuts could possibly pull them off center. Or they just wont hold the wheel securely and youll find yourself constantly retorquing them. So yeah, id just by the right lug nuts. IMO saving a couple bucks on lug nuts is not worth the risk of having a wheel come off..
(also Tuillo)
I guess I didnt explain it right. The wheel and axle are both "hub centric" so there is no chance of the wheel not being center. It's just the lugs will not seat right against a flat surface. I'm not trying to save on lugnuts, but I do like the stud covered. I guess shaving them flat is the best option.


you mind if i ask why you put a 12" wide tire on a 14" wide wheel? I dont understand how thats a good idea. No wonder they were a PITA to assemble.
The tires I have are 16" wide. The tread is 14" wide. I've always heard that your wheel should be the same width as your tread. In any case, I like wide wheels. Same size on my DD.

Freaknjeep- I gave $900 for the front axle. The guy basicly gave me the Sterling. I'm sure I over paid, but the yards around me suck. They were in good shape. (should be for 2007)
 
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