400M rollerized - Ford Bronco Forum
View Poll Results: Roller cam or not
Shell it out and upgrade to roller cam 22 57.89%
Leave it alone and drive it! 16 42.11%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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400M rollerized

I was toying with the idea of upgrading my 400M build with a roller cam, but really can't justify the cost. The simulator does show a significant increase in low end torque however and improving the efficiency of the truck has always been a priority. I'm currently running a Crane 523902 hydraulic flat tappet. Runs great. I've been looking at the Crane 529541 hydraulic roller. Not really sure whether it's really worth $1200 in parts and the time. Thoughts? Can't attach images, so here's a table showing the differences:

Current flat tappet sim data:
RPM Power Torque
2000 157 411
2500 205 430
3000 253 443
3500 302 453
4000 333 438
4500 349 407
5000 337 354

Roller cam upgrade sim data:
RPM Power Torque
2000 178 468
2500 228 479
3000 281 492
3500 330 495
4000 358 469
4500 364 426
5000 348 366

'79 Ford Bronco: 408-ZF5-NP205 SEFI-EDIS8; 4" lift, Dana 44/Ford 9" w/4.10s, locked
'00 Mountaineer:5.0L-4R70W-3.73 gears, stock
'89 5.0L LX hatch: full 90mm Blowzilla blown Dart 304 w/Vic Jr heads + TMoss ported GT40 lower @ 8.4:1
'71 Mach 1: short deck girdled 408W w/stage 1 RHS 215 heads + Vic 5.8 EFI intake @ 10.3:1
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post #2 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 06:29 PM
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Are your heads gonna flow what a roller cam profile will want to throw at them ? I would LOVE to see a roller cammed 400, that would be so badazz-
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post #3 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 351w500 View Post
Are your heads gonna flow what a roller cam profile will want to throw at them ? I would LOVE to see a roller cammed 400, that would be so badazz-
The heads are the stock open chamber 2V Cleveland heads that came on the 400M. They're certainly canted valves, I think they flow pretty well right from the factory. The valves are 2.04" intake and 1.67" exhaust. I am basically looking for improved fuel economy and low end torque.
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post #4 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 08:54 PM
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Id love to see a roller 400 but that is a bit of money ...then again it might be well worth it! Go for it!

Can one ever have enough Fords? I think not!
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post #5 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 10:04 PM
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It would be unique for sure, if I had the money I would do it to mine, those are decent gains and MPG would be a significant gain as well.

Dave

"...when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object
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post #6 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 10:11 PM
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Bronco Info: '90 xlt 351w E40D Truetrac I GOT ROLLER ROCKERS !
If you can get actual 2v 351 cleveland heads they will flow better than the later 2v M/400 heads because of the non-restricted exhaust runner-
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post #7 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-10-2013, 02:48 PM
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I'd talk with Tim Meyer and see if those gains are true, especially the low end torque from only a roller cam.

This is chebbie, but they don't seem to show much low end increase at all.

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/.../photo_13.html

For that kind of cabbage, I'd go Aussie heads.

And I don't believe either is going to affect mileage enough to matter.

79 XLT, 400/C6/mog 404's/42 IROKS, 8.5" lift.
79 XLT, 400/C6/D60-D44 8 lug, 2" lift, 35 BFG AT
74 Bronc build, 408/C6/Black Box/205/406 mogs/43 SX stickies

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post #8 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-10-2013, 03:32 PM
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I have a 400 roller..Just over 100 mile on it now..look for my build in the build forums..i also have aussie heads..makes a ton of torgue..
outlawbob
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post #9 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-10-2013, 04:40 PM
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i got Aussie heads on my 351c motor, They Rock ALOT {CHI 2v heads}
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post #10 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-10-2013, 05:29 PM
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that is a lot of money to toss at a 335 series engine

about the only thing it will be is bragging rights that you have a roller 400
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post #11 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-10-2013, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by InfoFord View Post
that is a lot of money to toss at a 335 series engine

about the only thing it will be is bragging rights that you have a roller 400
You got that right. Motor's already pushing over 400 ft-lbs of torque at 2000 RPM. I really don't think it's worth the effort or the cabbage.

'79 Ford Bronco: 408-ZF5-NP205 SEFI-EDIS8; 4" lift, Dana 44/Ford 9" w/4.10s, locked
'00 Mountaineer:5.0L-4R70W-3.73 gears, stock
'89 5.0L LX hatch: full 90mm Blowzilla blown Dart 304 w/Vic Jr heads + TMoss ported GT40 lower @ 8.4:1
'71 Mach 1: short deck girdled 408W w/stage 1 RHS 215 heads + Vic 5.8 EFI intake @ 10.3:1
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post #12 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-11-2013, 09:19 AM
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x2 on what InfoFord was saying....bragging rights is about it, IMO. I'm thinking your fuel injection is about the only thing that would let you see a "noticable" difference.
BTW, can I have your BKO?

My 79 build http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/...d.php?t=207864 - Aluminum 3-core radiator, Mallory 85 HEI conversion distributor, High Angle Driveline One Tons front and rear, JBFAB Twin stick shifter kit, True trac differentials front and rear, Yukon 4.56 gears front and rear, Moser Extreme 31 spline rear axles, Borgeson adjustable steering shaft and rag joint, 95 amp 3G alternator, Fireguy/RJM Tech upgraded headlight harness, and a ton of other crap!
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post #13 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-11-2013, 10:12 AM
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What Kinda fuel economy are you seeing out of your motor as it sits right now?

Can one ever have enough Fords? I think not!
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post #14 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-11-2013, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harleytech View Post
What Kinda fuel economy are you seeing out of your motor as it sits right now?
Rolling on a set of Toyo 35x13.50x15 M/Ts with 4.11 gears I'm seeing a solid 10 mpg regardless of whether I'm on a highway or in town. I'd love to get it up to 12 mpg if it were possible, but I don't think the cam's gonna do it for me.

'79 Ford Bronco: 408-ZF5-NP205 SEFI-EDIS8; 4" lift, Dana 44/Ford 9" w/4.10s, locked
'00 Mountaineer:5.0L-4R70W-3.73 gears, stock
'89 5.0L LX hatch: full 90mm Blowzilla blown Dart 304 w/Vic Jr heads + TMoss ported GT40 lower @ 8.4:1
'71 Mach 1: short deck girdled 408W w/stage 1 RHS 215 heads + Vic 5.8 EFI intake @ 10.3:1
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post #15 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 11:15 AM
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I'm putting a 400 roller together for my '78. I didn't actually plan to build it..just came to the realization that my 20-years plus of collecting Ford engines and parts left me with everything I needed for a nice build except the TMeyer pistons. The ole '78 is in the midst of a 1-ton axle swap right now; the engine swap will follow.

- Aussie 2V heads, Ferrea stainless 2.07/1,6, with studs, guide plates and SVO roller rockers
- A custom 400 roller cam, NIB, that came with another project I bought. It's mostly a 290H grind that isn't far off the Comp Cams version.
- Multi-port EFI (mostly Ford parts...similar to the one Jopes did)

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post #16 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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I've come to the decision that spending about $1200 on installing a roller cam in my 400 isn't worthwhile considering my future plans for the Bronco. First off, the roller cam won't actually yield much better power/torque numbers and certainly won't affect my fuel mileage appreciably. Second, I'm going to replace the engine with a Cummins 4BT at some point - 400M runs great since I injected it and fuel economy has been the only issue. 6000 lbs of truck requires a certain amount of energy to move and there's no changing that, however.

'79 Ford Bronco: 408-ZF5-NP205 SEFI-EDIS8; 4" lift, Dana 44/Ford 9" w/4.10s, locked
'00 Mountaineer:5.0L-4R70W-3.73 gears, stock
'89 5.0L LX hatch: full 90mm Blowzilla blown Dart 304 w/Vic Jr heads + TMoss ported GT40 lower @ 8.4:1
'71 Mach 1: short deck girdled 408W w/stage 1 RHS 215 heads + Vic 5.8 EFI intake @ 10.3:1
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post #17 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 12:27 PM
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Probably the best money you could spend for getting better fuel economy is to buy a small car. They get better fuel economy, easier to park, have cheaper tires, and gives you a parts runner.

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post #18 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by cheepsk8 View Post
...easier to park...
Except for that... x2 all the rest. :)

My wife sez the Bronco "out parks" and "out turns" her '95 Tracer (Escort).

I'm thinking about "breaking" the Bronco somehow so it'll stay home long
enough for me to work on it.

Alvin in AZ
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post #19 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 01:16 PM
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Money wise, what's the difference between a 400 roller and a 408w roller?

Quote:
Originally Posted by outlawbob View Post
I have a 400 roller... ...makes a ton of torque..
outlawbob
I bet it does. :)

Those 4" stroke motors have got to be cool. :)

As a kid had a '67 Doge Dart with a 225 slant six = 4+1/8" stroke.
Their 170 with its 3+1/8" stroke was an absolute dog, could hardly
get out of its own way. LOL :)

Just thought... "ton of torque" = "2000ft/lbs" LOL :)

Alvin in AZ
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post #20 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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The difference in cost between a 408M and a 408W is pretty huge. Basically, the heads on the Windsor block have to be replaced, which makes it far less affordable. Any Cleveland head is a far cry above and beyond in performance compared to a stock SBF piece. I built my 400M for less than $2K, that included new pistons, rings, valve job, bearings, cutting the crank down, ARP Wave-loc rod bolts, cam, double roller timing chain, oil pump, rockers, Glyptal, and long tube ceramic coated headers. The roller cammed 408W in my Mustang was a bit more $$$ and the heads were a sizable part of that cost.

Regarding fuel economy, I already ride a motorcycle to work everyday (50-60 mpg) and have a small 4 cylinder Jap car as well... the need to improve the fuel economy is driven by the cost of travel when going on adventures to Colorado for skiing, mountain biking, etc. in Bronco. Not my daily commute which often involves riding a mountain bike.

'79 Ford Bronco: 408-ZF5-NP205 SEFI-EDIS8; 4" lift, Dana 44/Ford 9" w/4.10s, locked
'00 Mountaineer:5.0L-4R70W-3.73 gears, stock
'89 5.0L LX hatch: full 90mm Blowzilla blown Dart 304 w/Vic Jr heads + TMoss ported GT40 lower @ 8.4:1
'71 Mach 1: short deck girdled 408W w/stage 1 RHS 215 heads + Vic 5.8 EFI intake @ 10.3:1
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