Electrical - no start, please help - Page 2 - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 09:18 PM
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Alright so I just went and took a look at mine to see if I could refresh my memory. Mine is off a '95 Taurus so bear with me.

BLK/Y needs to be tied into the constant positive (battery) side of the starter solenoid. It is a fairly heavy gage wire that fuels all your internal accessories that can turn on without the key on. (Lights, brake lights, flashers, yada yada)

GR/R originally ran from ignition switch to the voltage regulator when the key was in 'Run' only. On mine, I had to hook this up. If I remember correctly, the alternator from the Taurus harness actually used a GR/R for the same purpose so I believe I hooked GR/R to GR/R. I would need to verify this by dismantling my harness a bit.

There are 2 other wires on the Taurus harness that I had to account for that I'm guessing you don't. A Y/W that I believe is a charging 'trigger' activates the internal voltage regulator when output voltage is detected, and a W/BK which I don't recall what it's for.

What are the other wire colors that you're not sure of at this point?

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post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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vrewald, thank you very much. My alternator is brand new from LEB and has the GRN/RED wire already cut as this trigger wire is not needed. According to LEB, once my alternator makes a full revolution, it starts charging.

So, I'll take the BLK/YEL wire and cut it back from the harness pictured below (in the last pic), to put one of those circle connectors on it to connect to the + post on the relay. I guess the other two wires (the YEL and RED ones), I'll just cut off at the base of the connector?



What is that rusty connector that is connected to the BLK/WHT wire?



What do I do with the other 2 wire connector? Especially as it comes of the main vehicle harness. Just cut the wires off the 2 wire connector on the old alternator harness and plug it in to the main harness just to keep the connection clean??

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post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 11:42 PM
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BroncoSteve,

You're on the right track. The keys here are getting that BLK/Y wire cut just as you described, and reconnected to the + side of the starter relay, just as you described. The appropriate sized crimp on ring terminal connector will do just fine.

The other 2 wires in that connector are actually NOT YEL & R, they are actually Y/BK & R/O.

They are both used for the ammeter gauge in the instrument panel with R/O being the supply and Y/BK being the return in the loop. They are no longer used with this alternator setup. Cut both and seal off the ends appropriately.

The rusty connection for the BK/W wire is a junction block. In fact, I believe this is a circuit breaker junction block if I'm not mistaken. The BK/W wire is to the exterior wiring marker lamp relay. Keep that right where it is.

Regarding the 2 wire connector. Are you referring to the 2-wire connector that appears to have a white & yellow wire coming from it?

I believe that would actually be a w/bk wire which is supposed to be the electric choke feed. Is the other wire truly straight yellow or does it have a colored stripe on it? If it is truly just yellow, then it was a voltage regulator connection and is no longer needed. However, it was also spliced into the radio noise capacitor so if you are running the OEM radio then you might consider leaving that hooked up to the capacitor. I run an aftermarket radio and do not have the capacitor any longer and have no issues.

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-Edelbrock Carb & Manifold, Hedman Headers, Flowmaster Dual Mufflers, Comp Cams Extreme Energy Cam & Valvetrain Kit
-Duff LAs, WH progressive coils, Bilstein 7100s Lincoln HB, York OBA, Taurus Radiator Fan
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post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 12:22 AM Thread Starter
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Wow, you are my new favorite person. Thanks a ton, I'll actually make some progress on my Bronco again.

Upon further inspection, yes those other 2 wires in the 3 wire connection are YEL/BLK and RED/ORN. I saw where someone had posted a link to a Mercury Cougar guy who converts the stock ammeter in to a volt meter. If I went this route is it worth keeping those wires?

If I went full on with a non-digital Dakota Digital gauge cluster, or even just a stand alone volt meter, those wires would be obsolete in these cases I assume?

The 2 wire connector has a WHT/BLK and a GRN/RED (though the green is like a neon green) that connect to the same colors as the female connector of the main harness in my first pic. If so, I have a separate wire run for my electric choke on my Holley 4bbl (at least while I still go carb'd) and the GRN/RED is that ignition switch alternator trigger wire I believe?

I run an aftermarket Pioneer headunit, so hopefully I won't get noise by not running that capacitor.

Thanks again for the detailed reply
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post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 09:28 AM
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No problem! Glad to help. This makes me regret that I did not do a write-up at the time I did mine.

Regarding converting the ammeter to voltmeter. I believe I have also heard about this guy who does this. I can imagine it would be good to leave the 2 wires there in case of them being used for this.

I'm not sure about the Dakota Digital Gage set but in terms of a voltmeter, you could in theory use 1 of the 2 wires to be the +ve signal supply. Both have a positive connection directly to the starter solenoid +ve side so it should give you a good clean reading of what battery voltage is at all times. You would just need to then add your own ground wire. You would need to take the harness apart at the instrument panel where the wires would be in the connector for the printed circuit for the ammeter. You could really use either the R/O or the Y/BK, up to you.

Finally, yes, I should've remembered that is actually not a yellow wire, but the GR/R trigger wire. You already have this taken care of with the LEB alternator.

Speaking of LEB, this makes me a little disappointed in them that they did not provide a wiring diagram to help you out with this. It seems like they should have been able to give you all this support with some decent instructions...
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-Edelbrock Carb & Manifold, Hedman Headers, Flowmaster Dual Mufflers, Comp Cams Extreme Energy Cam & Valvetrain Kit
-Duff LAs, WH progressive coils, Bilstein 7100s Lincoln HB, York OBA, Taurus Radiator Fan
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post #26 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I was surprised when there weren't any documents (of any kind) included with the shipment.

That said, when I spoke with Kris, he was really great, explaining things thoroughly and didn't make me feel rushed even when asking really basic 101 questions. This was about 3pm and he told me not to hesitate to call again if I'm uncertain on something until 9pm.

Top marks for service based on my interactions with LEB.
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post #27 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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So the Bronco still wants to immediately engage the starter when the system is grounded, either via the - battery cable being connected to the battery or the cable from the starter to the starter relay being connected.

I have inspected both of those cables and they appear fine. Both + and - cables are only 1.5 years old or so. I have a new starter cable that I'll try (came with the WH battery cable kit) that I never installed.

Other than that, it's only the starter and starter relay that could be malfunctioning, correct? I've read that these auto parts store relays can crap themselves on the very first start. Maybe that's it? My original relay was fine until I fried it as you recall from above. I've gone ahead and ordered a new Motorctaft relay from a local Ford dealership.

Am I on the right track here? By the way, the ignition switch isn't even installed right now.
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post #28 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 04:11 PM
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I went through like 3 relays and 2 starters on my last truck. I think the original starter killed the first two relays and then I got a bad relay and killed another starter. Not really sure, but I was grateful for warranties. I would try the relay first- you could always remove the cable from the starter side and just check for voltage under different conditions.

I skimmed your other posts and think you probably checked this, but just make sure the 'trigger wire' isn't hot at all times.

Good luck!

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post #29 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 03:42 PM
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You obviously have a good starter, because it is engaging fine. The problem is it is getting power when it is not supposed to. Like mentioned before in this thread, your solenoid should only have power on the starter side when the key is in "Start". With the battery disconnected, pull the starter cable off the solenoid. Reconnect the battery and check for power using a multi-meter on the starter side of the solenoid with the key "Off", there shouldn't be any power but it sounds like on yours there is. Try tapping the solenoid with a wrench or screwdriver and see if it is just stuck and check for power again. If you still have power, then I would say either your ignition switch itself is bad, or the solenoid is bad. This is assuming you truly did hook up the two signal wires with the 90 degree boots on them correctly. I, like many others, have gone through multiple of those solenoids but once you get a good one it will last forever it seems.


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post #30 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you guys for the replys. I'm going to troubleshoot all this on Friday. I went ahead and paid extra for a Motorcraft starter relay/solenoid so I now have a known good unit.

The two wires with the 90 degree boots are hooked correctly. I took pics of the original setup and did an immediate swap from the relay I fried to a new auto parts store one. Everything is on per the original setup only now I have the black/yellow extra wire on the + side of the relay due to my LEB 3G setup I went to.

It seems it has to be either the relay or maybe the starter cable is bad. I'll replace both with quality new parts and see.

Again, my ignition switch is completely unplugged and removed currently, so it shouldn't be getting a singal to engage the starter except from the relay.

The Motorcraft relay is substantially heavier than the Chinese one from O'Reilly's. Maybe it'll hold up.
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post #31 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 02:46 PM
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Question This test could save you a lot of time..

Just curious how things turned out?
If no progress try this.
1.Disconnect the "negative" cable to the battery for testing purposes.
2.Disconnect the "S" and "R" terminal wires going to the solenoid.
3.The "positive" battery cable must always remain connected to the solenoid.

We can verify several things with this setup,
and it will also prevent your starter from engaging while troubleshooting
due to the ground cable being disconnected.

Everything you test with your voltmeter will be connected in this way above.
1. the black ground voltmeter lead must "always" be connected to the negative battery post. (A light clamp on item may be needed).
2. After making the above mentioned changes, first connect the voltmeter to see if you have 12volts on the downstream side(to the starter) from the solenoid.
2a. If yes? stop there replace your solenoid. There still could be other problems. But the solenoid needs replaced first.
IF No voltage? then proceed to step 3.
3. Connect the voltmeter to the "S" terminal wire which is disconnected from the solenoid. If voltage is present with ignition off or disconnected? Then you have found a problem. Also check your "R" terminal wire as well. Then get back us with your test results. I have my suspicions but don't want to get ahead of what needs to happen first.

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post #32 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for that awesome troubleshoot write up. Fortunately I have it fixed up. Shortly after my post above, I installed the new starter relay and all was right and good in the world again. Vehicle starts and stops like normal, the 3G is bad ass and charging my battery very well.

I have my RedHead box all bled and am now working on installing my new tie rod assembly and adjustable drag link set up (all Moog parts from WH). Than I'm ready to go.

I've been away for a while though as we just had our 2nd baby (another boy) on Friday 3/31. Before that I was covered up with work.

We'll see how baby number 2 incorporates but I hope my Bronco doesn't end up just sitting around now.....or end up for sale. It's not money but a time thing. Maybe I'll pickle it for a while....again, we'll see.
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post #33 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 02:01 PM
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well... congrats, I think.

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post #34 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 78BroncoSteve View Post
Thanks for that awesome troubleshoot write up. Fortunately I have it fixed up. Shortly after my post above, I installed the new starter relay and all was right and good in the world again. Vehicle starts and stops like normal, the 3G is bad ass and charging my battery very well.

I have my RedHead box all bled and am now working on installing my new tie rod assembly and adjustable drag link set up (all Moog parts from WH). Than I'm ready to go.

I've been away for a while though as we just had our 2nd baby (another boy) on Friday 3/31. Before that I was covered up with work.

We'll see how baby number 2 incorporates but I hope my Bronco doesn't end up just sitting around now.....or end up for sale. It's not money but a time thing. Maybe I'll pickle it for a while....again, we'll see.
Stay at it long enough to have the kids fall in love with "Daddy's Bronco". I have an 8, 5 and just shy of 2 year old and they all love the Bronco. I shout "Bronco" and they reply "Round Up!". It even serves as a quasi baby sitter in that I let my youngest hang out in it when I tinker outside with it. This usually lasts 15 mins to get at least something done before he does something destructive - I guess rear view mirrors are not strong enough to hang from!

#1 is keep it on the road (and in the garage when not in use) - I had long periods of time where it was down for major maintenance and it became a drag at times.
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post #35 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 01:05 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. My 3 yr old is definitely in love with it, so that's good. Maybe my lack of actual sleep over the last several days is causing me to be dramatic.

That said, I've gotten this Bronco pretty fixed up and hope to continue to do so, it's just finding the time to do will be substantially harder, but we all figure it out.

Oh well, I'm glad I was able to sort through this electrical problem thanks to you guys!
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