Tuning the E4OD - Ford Bronco Forum
 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-21-2012, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Swat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 3,826
Bronco Info: 1993 F150 Flare Side
iTrader: (7)
Tuning the E4OD

I start this thread as a source specific to Tuning the E4OD because there is very little information on the topic on the web. I did get responses on EECTuning and the Yahoo Tweecer Support site in favor of what I have done. Seems most use tuners for their Mustang, so there is not much E4OD info. I am using a FLY1 EEC out of an F150 with 351W and the AHACA strategy. It may well be that this tune is specific to this strategy. The same tuning variables may well work differently with other strategies. Keep this in mind when tuning yours.

A note of caution: Some of what I have been doing is trial and error. Only time will tell if the changes I have made will take away from the longevity of the trans. However, I believe the changes will likely add life as it shifts firmer now, less slipping and wear on the clutches. Also, preventing lock-up of the stock converter is keeping the converter clutch from slipping and burning-up.

My first Tweec was to eliminate code 628, Excessive Converter Clutch Slippage. I have prevented the torque converter from locking using the Function: Trans_Converter_Lock_2nd (Same for 3rd & 4th). The function has TP on the X axis and MPH on the Y axis. I set the MPH for lock-up to 80 for 2nd & 3rd, and 100 for 4th. That eliminated the code and should keep me from frying the clutch/converter as it won't hold with the 430ftlbs this engine produces. I only use this tune when I am stomping on it, my performance tune.

In the second Tweec I changed the Table - torque_table to match the engine output at load. This table has load on the y axis and RPM on the x axis. The number are grossed-up cause I notice the stock numbers were.


The third Tweec was to increase the RPM for the initiation of WOT shifts.
The cam and blower allows this engine to spin-up faster and too higher RPM. I originally added 500rpm to the wide open shift point Scalers for the stock tranny. The screen shot below is what I ended-up with for the Punisher tranny I installed. This worked, but the shifts were slow and mushy! I needed to do more! It is important to remember that this is the RPM that the shift starts.


The fourth was to the trans-tv-pressure-xx Function, where xx is 12, 23, & 34. This Function has TP on the y axis and TV on the x axis. I changed the last four cells for 1st to 2nd from 8, 8, 15, & 15 too 18, 20, 25, & 25. Now she has a little snap into 2nd at TP values approximately 2/3rds to WOT! I also brought-up the TV pressure for 2nd to 3rd in the last four TV cells from 2, 2, 5, & 5 too 10, 15, 15, & 15. It seems to me that the Function trans-tv-pressure-xx is an adder as there are negative numbers for the lower throttle positions. The TV value for the shift from 3rd to 4th, at the low TP of 152, is -5, leading me to that conclusion. It is not sucking a -5 TV pressure to shift into 4th so must be decreasing a preset TV pressure amount by 5.
Again this screen shot is of the Punisher tranny tune with more aggressive valve body, The TV pressure numbers are stock cause it already shifts very snappy.


I also started playing with the Function - trans-shift-schedule-xx (again xx is 12, 23 or 34). It has Throttle Position (TP) on the x axis and Miles Per Hour (MPH) on the y axis. I changed the last five cells for MPH from 23, 26.5, 28.5, 34, & 34 to 25, 35, 40, 45, & 45. This should allow the engine to wrap to greater RPM/greater MPH before shifting into second. I had also changed the Scalers trans_wot_shift_rpm_xx as above and earlier in the tune to initiate shifts at 500 RPM later. I don't know which is dominant or if they work in concert.
Sample shift schedule (what I use now with a different tranny, the Punisher)
Swat is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-21-2012, 12:49 PM
Charlie doesn't surf!!
 
jermil01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: JAX, FLA
Posts: 13,908
Bronco Info: 1992 xlt, 351EFI, .040, E4OD, D44 SAS w/Trutrac,Detroit locked 8.8, MAF conv, Tweeced
iTrader: (32)
Garage
subscribed...I'm all for adding life to the tranny..ever since I did the MAF swap with the WAY1 EEC, I noticed the shift points between 2nd and 3rd didn't seem right, almost as if it was shifting gears too soon. If I go WOT it doesn't do it.

I'm looking for my tune to be somewhere in the middle..I don't go around romping on it at WOT all day, but I want the shifts to be a little more crisp than they are..can't wait to hear more results..
jermil01 is offline  
post #3 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-21-2012, 01:06 PM
Nothing beets a Fullsize
 
Kingfish999's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Palm Harbor FL
Posts: 7,663
Bronco Info: 96 Bronco (5.8 DD E4OD), 88 Bronco Mudder (Engineless), 90 F250 (Explorer 5.0 4R70W)
iTrader: (21)
Garage
do you have a shiftkit in the tranny?


-----96 5.0 E4OD--------------88 5.8 C6--------------96 5.8 E4OD------
---------KIA-------------------Mud/Trail---------------Daily Driver------
Kingfish999 is online now  
 
post #4 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-21-2012, 08:47 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Swat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 3,826
Bronco Info: 1993 F150 Flare Side
iTrader: (7)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingfish999 View Post
do you have a shiftkit in the tranny?
No, the idea is to be able to tune up shift points, shift firmness, and converter lock-up. I have had luck with all three thus far. I will likely get an updated tranny with parts eventually. I figure it best to play with this one and get a good idea of what I am doing first.
Swat is offline  
post #5 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-21-2012, 09:11 PM
Owned 21 Years
 
Shadofax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: where havn't I lived? Now in Erie, CO
Posts: 17,276
Bronco Info: 95XLT351 E4OD SAS 44/ARB/Alloy shafts-joints. D60 rear/Detroit. 4wheel disc,35" KO2's, 4.56etc.
iTrader: (17)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swat View Post
No, the idea is to be able to tune up shift points, shift firmness, and converter lock-up. I have had luck with all three thus far. I will likely get an updated tranny with parts eventually. I figure it best to play with this one and get a good idea of what I am doing first.
Come tune mine once you've got it all figured out. I can pay in beers

I have no idea about any of the computer stuff. I was thinking that maybe I should say that you should have started by telling people where/how exactly you are getting this info. and making changes, but then I thought, if I don't know that (or anyone else) maybe it's best we aren't given info that could be dangerous to our trannies.

You do know Gawdawz? has a nice built E4OD for sale?

______________________
Click my supermotors link for tech on TCase, SAS, OBA, Soft Top, Overhead Console, Stock bumper Winch install, much more..:
http://www.supermotors.net/registry/628



Shadofax is offline  
post #6 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-22-2012, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Swat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 3,826
Bronco Info: 1993 F150 Flare Side
iTrader: (7)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadofax View Post
Come tune mine once you've got it all figured out. I can pay in beers

I have no idea about any of the computer stuff. I was thinking that maybe I should say that you should have started by telling people where/how exactly you are getting this info. and making changes, but then I thought, if I don't know that (or anyone else) maybe it's best we aren't given info that could be dangerous to our trannies.

You do know Gawdawz? has a nice built E4OD for sale?
I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

Reread the first post, I gave a word of caution and stated that there is not much info. available. I am told that I am on track by a couple of tuners on EECtuning.org and by Mike Glover the Tweecer man. As I always have done and will do going forward, I will relate any troubles I have along the way as I did when I was learning how no run a supercharged engine.

Ford was not forthcoming with any info. on how to tune the EEC. Most of this info. was gleamed by hackers and trial and error in the first place. If you want to be completely safe, stick with stock, no power adders and no tune.

Give me some time and let my tranny be the giunea pig.
Swat is offline  
post #7 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-22-2012, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Swat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 3,826
Bronco Info: 1993 F150 Flare Side
iTrader: (7)
I thought of something today, my cam is very mild, and makes power from 1,500 to 5,000rpm, similar to a stock cam on the low end. I bring this up because there are Functions for downshifts. If you have a cam that makes power at higher RPM then you would want it to drop into the next lower gear earlier than the stock tune does. I am going to try to add 7 MPH for downshifts 21 and 32. I notice in the stock tune that there is that much difference between up shift and downshifts so will apply it to my tune. I have already raised the shift points up for 12 & 23 so will add 7MPH to the downshifts as well. Should be fun, it will drop into the next lower gear sooner when I stomp on it!
21 shift schedule:
Swat is offline  
post #8 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 09:25 AM
Charlie doesn't surf!!
 
jermil01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: JAX, FLA
Posts: 13,908
Bronco Info: 1992 xlt, 351EFI, .040, E4OD, D44 SAS w/Trutrac,Detroit locked 8.8, MAF conv, Tweeced
iTrader: (32)
Garage
Swat, I've been trying to read through some of the material that came with the Tweecer Tuning Notes. I'm sure you've already read this, but I figured I'd post it up here anyway as it explains how the EEC can be manipulated to adjust engine torque during shifts...

During shifts, the EEC can reduce engine torque. This is done either via spark retard or
shutting of fuel injectors. In most cases shutting this off makes the shifts firmer and the vehicle
performance improves. On some of the E4OD and 4R100 transmission, if you disable the torque
reduction the shifts get softer since the transmission does not have enough capacity to stop the
oncoming clutch with the power its making. In these cases, you should reduce the amount of
torque that is reduced during the shift. In the some software there are two ways to disable this
torque reduction, setting trans_min_tp_for_torque_mod to 900 or setting
Ford Electronic Engine Control Tuning Revision 1.0
EEC Tuning Page 70 of 86
trans_min_ECT_for_torque_mod to 250 will disable this reduction. In some versions of software
there will be these two values plus two others that need to be set to 900,
trans_min_tp_for_torque_mod_upshift and trans_min_tp_for_torque_mod_downshift.
If you do not want to shut off the torque reduction and just want to reduce it, then you can
change the amount in the torque reduction tables. These tables are a percent of total torque you
want the engine to have. A value of .8 means you want the engine to have 80% of its normal
torque, or a 20% reduction. These tables are specific for each shift and are as follows,
trans_tqmod_xy where xy is the shift you want to change. A 1-2 shift would be trans_tqmod_12.

To also improve driveability of the vehicle, it is recommended to take the 3-4-shift
schedule and paste it into the 3rd gear lock function, trans_converter_lock_3rd. This prevents the
torque converter from locking in 3rd gear before the 3-4 shift and will generally improve the feel
of the car when driving it.
At WOT, the trans shifts off of one of two things. Either the vehicle speed that is in the
shift schedule functions or the WOT engine speed scalars, trans_wot_shift_xy, where xy is the
shift, like 12. What this means, in most cases, is that this is where the shift is COMMANDED
and not where it will occur. In some transmissions it can take up to one second to fill the on
coming clutch. If the engine is accelerating at 1000 RPM per second (not unusual for low gear
with a 3.73 ratio) that means that from the commanded of the shift to the actual shift point, the
RPM will increase by 1000 rpm. So, if you set the trans_wot_shift_12 to 5000 rpm, the shift
could occur 6000 rpm. This is important to know when setting up WOT shift points.
jermil01 is offline  
post #9 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Swat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 3,826
Bronco Info: 1993 F150 Flare Side
iTrader: (7)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post

1 trans_min_tp_for_torque_mod_upshift
2 trans_min_tp_for_torque_mod_downshift.
3 trans_tqmod_xy where xy


To also improve driveability of the vehicle, it is recommended to take the 3-4-shift
schedule and paste it into the 3rd gear lock function, trans_converter_lock_3rd.
Good add! I had read that. I have not seen the three above items in the AHACA strategy I am using. As for the second part, I have essentially eliminated lock-up in 3rd for my performance tune, but I want lock-up for my "mileage" tune when cruising, it's ideal for the mountain driving we do in 3rd gear.

Edit: after looking at the WAY1/VEX1 what I have written above holds true. You won't find those three functions in the VEX1 and AHACA Strategies.
Swat is offline  
post #10 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 12:14 PM
Charlie doesn't surf!!
 
jermil01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: JAX, FLA
Posts: 13,908
Bronco Info: 1992 xlt, 351EFI, .040, E4OD, D44 SAS w/Trutrac,Detroit locked 8.8, MAF conv, Tweeced
iTrader: (32)
Garage
I'm running the WAY1 EEC with modified VEX1 strategy. I believe you're right that the AHACA is a combo of various strategies. Also, I didn't realize you could run the AHACA with the E4OD..

Wonder if there would be any benefit to running it on mine..Let me know if you're interested and I'm email you the tune that Mike put together for me that firms up the tranny shifts..at the very least you could take a look at the scalers he has on mine and use the feature in Tweecer to compare to yours.
jermil01 is offline  
post #11 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Swat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 3,826
Bronco Info: 1993 F150 Flare Side
iTrader: (7)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
I'm running the WAY1 EEC with modified VEX1 strategy. I believe you're right that the AHACA is a combo of various strategies. Also, I didn't realize you could run the AHACA with the E4OD..

Wonder if there would be any benefit to running it on mine..Let me know if you're interested and I'm email you the tune that Mike put together for me that firms up the tranny shifts..at the very least you could take a look at the scalers he has on mine and use the feature in Tweecer to compare to yours.
PM on the way!
Swat is offline  
post #12 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Swat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 3,826
Bronco Info: 1993 F150 Flare Side
iTrader: (7)
I got your tune. I do not see the tuning variables mentioned as I posted above in either Strategy. At a quick glance, it looks very simialr to the AHACA strategy I am using. I'll spend more time with it when I can. Remember that while the strats look the same, the hardware/EEC may not accept a tune using the wrong strategy, Way1/=Vex1 My Fly1=AHACA.
Swat is offline  
post #13 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 02:14 PM
Charlie doesn't surf!!
 
jermil01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: JAX, FLA
Posts: 13,908
Bronco Info: 1992 xlt, 351EFI, .040, E4OD, D44 SAS w/Trutrac,Detroit locked 8.8, MAF conv, Tweeced
iTrader: (32)
Garage
I'm pretty sure that the tuning variables, vary between the different EEC's and strategies.
jermil01 is offline  
post #14 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Swat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 3,826
Bronco Info: 1993 F150 Flare Side
iTrader: (7)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
I'm pretty sure that the tuning variables, vary between the different EEC's and strategies.
I know I have read and heard that they build upon the old Strats and they evolve over time as do the EEC's. Thus, while the Scalers, Functions, and Tables may look the same, the Strategies utilizing those variables process them differently and the EEC's may process differently.

I went through all the Tables, Scalers, and Functions between the FLY1/AHACA I have and your WAY1/VEX1 and there are more similarities than differences. But yes there are differences.
Swat is offline  
post #15 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-26-2012, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Swat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 3,826
Bronco Info: 1993 F150 Flare Side
iTrader: (7)
My tranny is shifting at 5,000RPM from 1 to 2 and firmly, rather than Ford-slow granny shifts with this tune!
Swat is offline  
post #16 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-26-2012, 07:01 PM
Charlie doesn't surf!!
 
jermil01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: JAX, FLA
Posts: 13,908
Bronco Info: 1992 xlt, 351EFI, .040, E4OD, D44 SAS w/Trutrac,Detroit locked 8.8, MAF conv, Tweeced
iTrader: (32)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swat View Post
My tranny is shifting at 5,000 from 1 to 2 and firmly, rather than Ford-slow granny shifts with this tune!
glad to hear it's working good for you!! you just kept the tranny scaler right?
jermil01 is offline  
post #17 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-26-2012, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Swat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 3,826
Bronco Info: 1993 F150 Flare Side
iTrader: (7)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
glad to hear it's working good for you!! you just kept the tranny scaler right?
I made the changes as described in the first post. I meant to add that by increasing the shift point rpm/mph and TV pressure, I gained 3 tenths in the 0-60.

I compared your tune with the stock one you sent. Seems Mike put in absolute values in TV in the functions "trans-tv-pressure-xx" and yet the stock tune shows negative and positive numbers like they are adders. The stock FLY1/AHACA shows the same and I used relatively small numbers as adders in my tune. Perplexing! I can't see trying higher numbers like Mike did as I like how it shifts now, but I will try to see what difference it makes. I wonder if the computer knows, if the value is above a certain point/cut-off, that the input is absolute and not an adder?

If you hold yours WOT at what rpm does it shift to second?
Swat is offline  
post #18 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 09:42 AM
Charlie doesn't surf!!
 
jermil01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: JAX, FLA
Posts: 13,908
Bronco Info: 1992 xlt, 351EFI, .040, E4OD, D44 SAS w/Trutrac,Detroit locked 8.8, MAF conv, Tweeced
iTrader: (32)
Garage
I haven't seen a FLY1 EEC anywhere, I know you said it was an F150 with a 351, but what year, and was it a Cali vehicle? Assuming yes b/c you have MAF. My understanding was that there were also some differences in how the trannys were set up to shift between the 351 and the 302.

So you just made the changes to your tune with the values that were in mine for the tranny, is that correct?

Can you take a screen shot of the tranny section in Cal Edit that you modified and post it up here?

"I wonder if the computer knows, if the value is above a certain point/cut-off, that the input is absolute and not an adder?"

I think you're right, the value that can be put in is finite.

Funny you should ask about my shift at WOT, I tried this the other day and the RPMs spooled up to 5K...couldn't believe it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swat View Post
I made the changes as described in the first post. I meant to add that by increasing the shift point rpm/mph and TV pressure, I gained 3 tenths in the 0-60.

I compared your tune with the stock one you sent. Seems Mike put in absolute values in TV in the functions "trans-tv-pressure-xx" and yet the stock tune shows negative and positive numbers like they are adders. The stock FLY1/AHACA shows the same and I used relatively small numbers as adders in my tune. Perplexing! I can't see trying higher numbers like Mike did as I like how it shifts now, but I will try to see what difference it makes. I wonder if the computer knows, if the value is above a certain point/cut-off, that the input is absolute and not an adder?

If you hold yours WOT at what rpm does it shift to second?
jermil01 is offline  
post #19 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Swat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 3,826
Bronco Info: 1993 F150 Flare Side
iTrader: (7)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
I haven't seen a FLY1 EEC anywhere, I know you said it was an F150 with a 351, but what year, and was it a Cali vehicle? Assuming yes b/c you have MAF. My understanding was that there were also some differences in how the trannys were set up to shift between the 351 and the 302.

1995 F150 no Cali

So you just made the changes to your tune with the values that were in mine for the tranny, is that correct?

No, my tune as in post #1

Can you take a screen shot of the tranny section in Cal Edit that you modified and post it up here?

No computer doesn't have that

"I wonder if the computer knows, if the value is above a certain point/cut-off, that the input is absolute and not an adder?"

I think you're right, the value that can be put in is finite.

On the tweecer support site Mike says: I did mean to mention that I generally use a max of 75 on 1-2 and 50-75 on the rest, but usually keeping it at or below 50 (TV PSI)

Funny you should ask about my shift at WOT, I tried this the other day and the RPMs spooled up to 5K...couldn't believe it...
Varooooo then shift is not like Varooooooooooooooooooooooooooommm then shift! which ='s better performance!

From what I am seeing I changed the same things that Mike did and he confirmed that on the support group. I am being cautious as I wanted to be sure the two strats are using the same variables the same way for the tranny tune. They are!
Swat is offline  
post #20 of 84 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Swat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 3,826
Bronco Info: 1993 F150 Flare Side
iTrader: (7)
To clear-up the TV pressure in the Functions - trans-tv-pressure-xx I get this from a tuner on EECtuning.org

"Its typical for henry to demand negative pressures at low shifts, it will never reach that value though as 1 its not possible and 2 it'll hit the min pressure clip

the values in the tv shift functions are absolute"
Swat is offline  
Reply

  Ford Bronco Forum > Bronco Discussions > 1980-'96 Bronco Tech > ECC Tuning

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Bronco Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. DO NOT USE Gmail.com accounts. If you only have a Gmail.com email please contact the administrator here

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome