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Mild 351 Build Opinions

33K views 166 replies 44 participants last post by  green monster 
#1 ·
I have searched and searched threads/posts but some final opinions on my possible build. Long story short my SAS once again has to be put on hold. I am in the middle of my paint/body work and have the front clip off. So I might as well and pull the engine to fix the oil pan and rear main leak. But why do that when I can freshen up my engine. Runs good with 188,000, just leaks fluid and would like a little more oomph. I need to keep cost down to because I am also doing the paint etc, so I figured on this: BBK under drive pulleys; GT40P heads; Edlebrock truck Performer lower/upper intake; stock cam; new oil pan/pump etc, water pump, 2 row radiator; freeze plugs and obviously gaskets.

I already have FMS headers, aftermarket Y pipe with single high flow cat and Magnaflow muffler. I figure as long as the compression and cylinder walls looks good I can squeeze another 20K miles or more until I have to bore her.

Maybe I can also get close to 300hp and some wanted Tq. I don't think I would be to far off but just probing your minds!

Thanks in advance! :beer
 
#103 ·
have you checked to make sure you dont have a intake manifold leak near the top side of the intake ports? I installed my Alm. heads with the stock intake and had a bad leak at the top of the intake ports.With the new taller intake ports on the heads it caused the leak.I had to take the intake off and get new gaskets and make sure to hold them (gaskets) up some.maybe a 1/8th of a inch or so to seal right.They didnt block the ports if your wondering.
 
#106 ·
Build Update

It has been awhile since I have posted anything on my build. I had everything almost done before I moved from MT. Discovered I had a lower intake leak from the gasket slipping or not being aligned correctly from the get go. I left it with my buddy to fix that and check into a electrical gremlin that appeared on rebuild. The interior lights are always on and the tailgate motor wont work. Tracked it down to probably a short some where. Tailgate window worked once I pulled the fuses and ran a hot wire from the interior switch to the tailgate.

So I moved and have been busy/gone with work and tore my AC joint (collar Bone). The Bronco just got here this week finally and now I get to finish the electrical gremlin, interior and align a couple body panels.

Apparently the timing was not set right either cause it starts and sounds like its off, then stalls. Sounds more like a tractor; I guess it could be the firing order with the plug wires too. Either way I have a brand new engine and still can't drive her!!

I have one picture for now and will get a few more this weekend and maybe a update also.
 

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#109 ·
Looking good.I had the same thing happen to me on the intake gaskets being placed improperly.That was after I had put the new ALM. heads on with the larger intake ports and the old stock ported intake.How are you liking the new Projector style headlights?
 
#110 ·
The headlights look like they will work pretty good, even though they are just halogen and not HID. The real test will be once I get it on the road and do some real world tests though. I am going to work on it tonight and see if I can get it running the way it should. It would be nice if a vacuum tube came off but we will see.
 
#111 ·
Just to throw a couple NA combos into the mix. I had my ride dynoes when it was NA.
Combo 1
Stock 93 Lightning shortblock, stock GT40 heads, stock cam, stock rockers, Gt40 Intake, stock 65mm tb, stock headers, Electric fan, stock airbox with K&N panel filter, bassani O/R midpipe with dual Bassani mufflers.

Peak HP to the tires was 238 @ 4600rpm
Peak tq was 318 @ 3600rpm

Combo 2
Stock 351 shortblock, AFR 165 heads, 1.6 RR's, Mustang HO cam, Bassani headers, Bassani mid pipe, and catback, Electric fan, stock 65mm tb and stock Gt40 intake, 3" tube for intake with a cone filter

Peak Hp was 286 to the tires @ 4800 rpm
Peak tq was 368 to the tires at 3800 rpm

Sooooo...............HO cam moved the peak tq and hp up by about 200rpm, but was really soggy below 2500rpm. AFR 165 heads, 1.6 RR's, and Bassani shorties gave me 48hp to the wheels or about 60 to the flywheel over GT40's, and added about 50rwtq or about 60 ftlbs to the flywheel. I do not reccomend the HO cam to anyone in a heavy Bronco or any cam with a duration above 208Âş without a 2500+ stall converter.
 
#112 ·
I read somewhere too that the stock 351 cam is really not that bad of a cam and if your running SD, then why mess with it for min gain?
I would like to get it dynoed sometime to see exactly what she's putting out. I have Apple products and haven't found any desktop dynos that work. I do expect to see about 300hp and 400tq though at the tires.
 
#115 ·
Just because I'm so lazy, can we get a complete summary of the mods/combo?
 
#116 ·
Here is my main parts List: 351 roller with Speed Pro H336CP pistons, .30 over, stock rods, Eldebrock upper lower intake, Stock cam, Gt 40X heads, stock lifters, forgot pushrods info, Melling stock oil pump, Crane ignition, FMS headers, Bassani Y pipe, Magnaflow muffler, OEM valve covers and oil pan. All bolts replaced using ARP.
 
#117 ·
I'd say most likely 250 to the wheels and 350-375tq to the wheels.
 
#118 ·
You think that low? Gacknar's 357 has same heads, a little different piston/cam, aftermarket intakes and is putting out some nice numbers. I would think WAG would be a little more with aftermarket upper/lower intake, and aluminum heads. Either way it will be better then my worn out stock 351!
 
#119 ·
I'm just using a Lightnig as refrence. There are several Lightnings running around with those heads and HO cams with 1.7s. The HO cam makes more HP, but less low end tq than the Bronco cam. I didn't see that you had an electric fan or 1.7 RR's. I also didn't see any sort of CAI. My combo made 286 to the wheels with an electric fan, RR's, HO cam, and a CAI. I don't see where you list the trans you have, so if it isn't an E4OD then maybe 15-20 more rwhp.
 
#120 ·
Is it running good yet? Oh and I don't know what the Performer intake flows, but the stock GT40 lower for the 351 flows almost 280cfm. The restriction is i the upper which is less than that but I can't recall how much exactly. The GT40 intake has proven to be the hands down winner vs all other intakes when looking at average tq and hp in the idle to 5000 rpm range.
 
#121 ·
Diabolic, what combo do you have? I can't search cause I am at work. I see where your coming from and think your prob closer because I have the E4OD anchor. I think the Edlebrock is close to GT40, but I wanna say a wee bit more torque. I pick this because of the time crunch I was in; just a quick bolt up!

I may change to 1.7 RR later but not sure if its really worth it.

It ran good (besides high idle) when I had the intake leak, but know I have it back, it seems the idle is off or a vacuum line is disc. I have to get into it this weekend and see. It starts fine but doesn't stay running and sounds off, like the RPMs are too low. Once I get that sorted I will break in the engine and get it on the road.
 
#122 ·
Once you start to midify a SD system it is almost imperative that you install some sort of wideband to ensure the wot fueling is correct. I can promise you that it will be much leaner at wot than it was ever intended to be. With the Ethanol they put i gas today it's even worse because the takes more of it to run a safe AFR. 100% gas has a stoich ratio of 14.67, and E10 is 14.02. SD cannot compensate for the increase in airflow without the ecm being modified via Volumetric Efficiency tables, fuel tables, or wot fuel multiplier. So lets say when stock at wot your AFR was 12.7(100% gas) and with E10 that basically becomes 13.3 AFR! That is getting too lean for max tq production. Now throw in the mix the fact that you have increased the airflow of the engine by 10%. That's a ficticious number I just used for an example. Now your wot AFR is going to be 14.6 on E10 and 13.8 with 100% gas! Way too lean! My own Lightning went as lean as 15.3 at wot before I started to tune my own vehicles. My mods were similar to yours. My advice is to get a wideband. I reccomend the Innovate MTXL.

My combo to reach 286 to the wheels was:
Stock shortblock, AFR heads, RR's, 65mm tb, Bassani shorties, GT40 intake, UD crank pulley, and electric fan. My fan, crank pulley, and AFR heads are prolly worth 20hp to the wheels over your setup.
 
#123 ·
Thanks for the fact based info. I also think a wideband would be a good idea. Do you have 165 or 185's? I will keep you posted as I make progress and throw some more pics up. I just want to drive it; put a lot of work and a ton o money into it and can't drive her! I figure patients and taking my time will pay off though.
 
#124 ·
I have the 165's. I got them on the cheap and they basically flow almost identical to the 185's up to about .480 lift. My cam lift with 1.7's is still only .474 so the flow numbers above that really don't concern me. Now that I force 15#'s of boost through it I really don't care.

I reccomended the MTXL because its cheap, under $200, and it can display lambda as well as AFR. I recommend you display and record in lambda. That way it doesn't matter what fuel you burn. 100% gas, E10, E15, or E85. As long as you tune for .85 during wot and 1.0 the rest of the time, you are good to go.

Does it run bad just at startup of all the time? Have you verified the timing is accurate? Are you sure the outer ring on the balancer hasn't slipped and is giving you inaccurate timing readings?
 
#125 ·
Before I moved I had the timing good but that's when I discovers the problem with the Lowe intake gasket. I moved and my mechanic friend fixed and it was shipped to me. He said it had ran good for 5 min and then the other time it won't stay running. I don't know what to believe. It could also be a vacuum line too. That's what iam goig to look into
 
#126 ·
Check the timing and the balancer for slip as well.
 
#127 ·
Tonight I charged the battery, checked all the vacuum lines/spark plug wires and firing order and still didn't fire up or sound right. So I advance the timing a bunch and better! A little more and what do you know, It Lives!!! Sounded real good too. I have to use the timing light tomorrow and she where its at, but will probably leave it 12 degrees and see how that is. Even though I didn't run it long, i saw no leaks and I thankfully didn't hear any malfunctioning sounds.

So, tomorrow I will break in the engine, change the oil and see what it looks like. Then fix the tailgate/interior lighting wiring problem. :rockon

Here a couple pics too; I put Monstaliner around the wheel wells, front bumper, grill, a strip across the hood, inside the door jambs, inside the new tailgate, inside/outside the bottom and a strip on the top so my dog stops scratching the paint. (when she hangs her big ole paws out) I need to probably put one more coat on and put Upol on the inside of the wheel wells and on the backside of the hood. Then replace the bearings in my tire carrier and coat that in monstaliner. Funny how the engine always looks good on the stand, then you put it in and it looks kinda like dog shit again?! She is a little dirty, not perfect, but for my first major engine/body project I am pretty happy.

Slowly but surly it's getting done and then next year I will hopefully finish my coil 1 ton SAS. Money pit keeps getting bigger!!
 

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