Cam shaft causing no-start?? - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 12:00 AM Thread Starter
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Cam shaft causing no-start??

I had a 351 rebuilt and the shop decided a 302 camshaft was the best choice for my wants. I and 4 different mechanics have not been able to get the engine to fire. The most recent mechanic suggests that the 302 firing order won't work with my 351 ECU.

Is this correct? Does the ECU need to match the firing order?

Can the ECU be programmed differently?

Should I pull the camshaft and get a 351 cam instead?

All the typical things have been gone over: spark, fuel, compression, timing, etc
Need some help, the truck has been sitting for over a year now...

Info:
1990 351 EFI
Camshaft: E-pro Racing MC 1734
Camshaft is listed for: 1962-91 302
http://www.engineproparts.com/downlo...atalogCams.pdf


Last edited by thephalanx; 02-25-2017 at 12:08 AM. Reason: Technical Info
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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 10:22 AM
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firing order is cam specific..the EEC doesn't care about that.
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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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That's what I figured. I'm just pretty stuck with this new engine. No one can get it running

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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 11:30 AM
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I can't see the specs on the cam, but I know plenty of people have put 302 cams in a 351. there is a thread around somewhere about what cams are right for speed density engines. if you go with too much cam that might be the problem..or you could just slap in a 351 cam and see what happens.
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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 12:33 PM
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Use the link in my signature for timing the engine. It's your ticket to get it to fire...
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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
I can't see the specs on the cam, ... if you go with too much cam that might be the problem..
Cam specs:
Dur @ .050 INT 204, EXH 214
ADV DUR INT 280 EXH 290
VALVE LIFT INT .448 EXH 472
LOBE SEP INT 108 EXH 116

I don't know what "too much cam" means. Do these numbers look okay?

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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sackman9975 View Post
Use the link in my signature for timing the engine. It's your ticket to get it to fire...
I've used your write-up extensively, thank you. I've had the timing done every which way and in 180. Nothing

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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 04:10 PM
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Check your stuff. Do you have fuel? And I mean, make sure you have adequate fuel pressure and flow. Check it.
Make sure the air isn't blocked (rare, yes).
Make sure you have actual spark. Aty the coil and at the plugs.

You need all three, so narrow down where the issue lays. You could do a lot of stuff and find you simply have a bad coil or something.
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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 04:49 PM
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Do a simple compression test, if the cam is installed incorrectly, or somehow not in sync with the crank, you'll know by having poor compression.
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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rpeters549 View Post
Check your stuff. Do you have fuel? And I mean, make sure you have adequate fuel pressure and flow. Check it.
Make sure the air isn't blocked (rare, yes).
Make sure you have actual spark. Aty the coil and at the plugs.

You need all three, so narrow down where the issue lays. You could do a lot of stuff and find you simply have a bad coil or something.
This is all quality advice and I did this to my limited abilities. When I couldn't figure it out it then has been passed to now it's fourth mechanic. I assume any mechanic would check all of the basics first. Although one mechanic changed the harness and distributor and never knew if fuel was being delivered properly

I am now troubleshooting by what my current mechanic says.

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post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mikey350 View Post
Do a simple compression test, if the cam is installed incorrectly, or somehow not in sync with the crank, you'll know by having poor compression.

Will I be able to tell if the camshaft is operational with that compression test?? My knowledge stops at engine internals

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post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 05:12 PM
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The cam operates the valves, the crank operates the pistons. If the pistons are going up but the valve(s) are open, you'll have no compression.
(the cam and crank are engine internals)
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post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 05:15 PM
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OK a 290 duration cam, with stock speed density efi? That is the definition of too much, way too much duration. however it should stumble or try to run, I would think. So set the firing order to the H.O. 302/351 13726548 and just see what happens
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post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wyatt earp View Post
OK a 290 duration cam, with stock speed density efi? That is the definition of too much, way too much duration. however it should stumble or try to run, I would think. So set the firing order to the H.O. 302/351 13726548 and just see what happens
Too much duration, got it. And yes, it's been wired both ways. I've never gotten it to even stumble, though one mechanic said it did a bit. Nothing near running though

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post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 09:01 PM
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There is a great guide on here called "how to choose a camshaft for efi" . It explains all you need to know.
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post #16 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyatt earp View Post
There is a great guide on here called "how to choose a camshaft for efi" . It explains all you need to know.
Thanks, going through that again I think I see my problem. My camshaft has a lobe separation of 112 and my truck is SD. So that's a no go. Best route is to swap the camshaft then yes?

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post #17 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thephalanx View Post
Thanks, going through that again I think I see my problem. My camshaft has a lobe separation of 112 and my truck is SD. So that's a no go. Best route is to swap the camshaft then yes?
I ran the E303 with 110 lobe separation and it ran just fine with speed density. So 112 should at least run.
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post #18 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 10:13 PM
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I would start over with the basics
fuel pressure (with a gauge)AND new fuel in it
old fuel may not even try to light up
I have had gas a little as a few months old run like crap
gas doesn't last long sitting

verify nothing crawled into exhaust and made a nest in there blocking the exhaust( think trying to fart with a cork stuck up yer arse)
verify intake /air filter not blocked
verify all vacuum lines /hoses are hooked up
compression test
are rocker arms tightened properly to set valve lash(cant remember if they are adjustable on a 351w ford)
if engine has been sitting and never run ,you may have to squirt a oz ot two of engine oil down every plug hole to seal up the compression ring to get this thing to fire


IS distributor actually turning when cranking and do you have the cap plug wires laced up correct direction of rotation( I have been burnt on this one when I did my motor over 25yrs back and took me hrs to figure it out(first v8 I built)
verify correct #1 cylinder on compression stroke

what I do to visually test on an engine I know nothing about or is not accessible in some of the equipment I repair is remove a spark plug,insert plug in wire and ground it somewhere on engine not near plug hole (valve cover may bot be a good spot due to thick gaskets
have someone crank engine and listen for compression while looking for spark at plug
this should at least give you an indication if your plug is firing on compression stroke
verify injector is also pulsing at same time using a noid light or a test light

if you were close by I would stop on by and give you a hand, even if it is too much cam,it should still start and run, maybe not great but at least run
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post #19 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 11:01 PM
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It is nothing more than a air pump that uses compressed air and fuel to explode and make it run.

And if you have had it to 4 mechanics now and none are able to get it to run, I would really think differently on what type of mechanic you are taking the vehicle to.


Something is not right.

YOU need to verify fuel pressure with a gauge on the fuel rail.

Verify spark at the plugs while cranking.

If its not popping or trying to start with both of those then there is some other issues going on.
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post #20 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 11:32 PM
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Have you attempted to have the engine builder take a look at it or make some suggestions?

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