plug ugly
03-31-2003, 06:19 PM
not sure this will work. I have no where to post this as a link so I copied the word version I made. It used to be on mbb, but isn't anymore. someone was asking questions about the swap, so i thought I could post it here, only prob is the pictures don't show up
After listening to my old stock pump whine and make shrill noises while wheeling, I finally decided I would try and do the Saginaw swap. I had read some great info about the subject, one of them being a write up by Russ, a.k.a. Mudman at
http://www.superford.org/users/mudman111/chevy.htm
This was a pretty informative write-up, and definitely got me going in the right direction. However, I was faced with some problems that Mudman apparently did not have.
I pulled all my stuff (bracket, pump, pulley and high-pressure hose) out of a 91 E150 with the 5.8 liter motor. The hoses were still attached to the pump, but had been cut halfway down the line. This ended up not being of consequence since I would not have been able to use these lines anyhow. Here are the parts that I did get from the junkyard for 50 dollars, less the line
The new parts w/o the lines
It is important to get the pulley along with the bracket and pump. The stock pulley will not fit on the Saginaw pump. You really do not even need the pump, since all Saginaw pumps are essentially the same and I purchase a remanufactured unit from Kragen with a lifetime warranty for 60 bucks.
As far as the installation went, it really is pretty easy to do. Start by removing the fan belt, and then the A/C compressor from the stock bracket. Tie the A/C pump out of the way or just flip it up on top of the motor. Then remove the entire bracket and stock pump all in one piece. There is no need to break any of this apart. Once removed, I spent a few minutes and just tried to clean up the area before beginning to install the new stuff.
The Two setups side by side.
I would really suggest two things when dealing with the pulley removal from the Saginaw pump should you decide to replace the junkyard pump with a new one. Try and find a GOOD pulley remover and use an air impact to aid with the removal. I did not have access to either, and my hands literally hurt for days from the amount of pressure I had to put on the wrenches. Also, I ended up marring and deforming the pulley a little because the removal tool I rented from Pep Boys sucked. Erik M. provided this link on the Big Broncos list, and this was the one I ended up using and believe it to be the best setup I have seen. http://buy.snapon.com/catalog/pro_det.asp?P65=yes&qt=1&tool=all&catItem=true&INV_ONHAND=&FREIGHT=&qty=1&Item_id=10313&PartNo=CJ124A&Price=66.95&ListPrice=66.95&FORMNAME=6&Desc=Puller%2C+Power+Steering%2FAlternator+Pulley+ %28for+Chrysler%2C+Ford%2C+and+GM%29&SUB_Cat_ID=1624398&SUB_Cat_NAME=Special+Automotive+Pullers&Cat_ID=1623769&Cat_NAME=Pullers&group_id=1244&group_NAME=Power+Steering+and+Alternator+Pullers+% 2F+Single+Pullers&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
When I was trying to install the A/C pump into the new bracket, I ran into problems that others have not. The bolts from the van were a larger diameter than the 10 mm ones my bronco used to secure the A/C pump to the top of the bracket. After some consideration, I ultimately decided to drill out the holes in my A/C compressor so the van bolts would fit. This ended up being very simple, and the tops and bottoms of the A/C guides were actually little taps/dowels pressed into the holes to take up the space. I had to drill from the top and bottom to get the full length of the A/C guides honed out, but this ended up working quite well and there were no ‘trueness’ issues. The van’s bolts ended up staying at the Junkyard, seems they liked it there, so I went to the hardware store to buy longer bolts of the correct size. When buying grade 5 or 8 hardware longer than 2 inches or so, the threads are only about 1 inch long and the rest is a smooth bore shaft. This wold not work with configuration I had because the threads needed to be longer, so I ended up having to go and buy some motor bolts from the auto shop that would work. Not sure if this would happen in all cases, but I suggest grabbing the bolts for the yard just in case. Also, BE CAREFUL not to overtighten these, as it is easy to strip out the threads on the block with the new hardware.
So I thought my problems were over. But no, I was on to the next one. The stock high-pressure line was not going to work. I do not know what others have done about this, or if they even had this problem. The fitting required at the back of the pump was flared much more than the stock bronco fitting. The thread size was the same, and actually would mount on to the pump, but I was concerned because the fitting itself was much narrower. The stock pump fitting comes to a narrow point without a rubber o-ring, while the Saginaw pump fitting has a much wider flare to it. At the other end, I had no fitting from the van, so I had to use the Bronco line. Since no one makes a line like what I needed, I had one custom made. I took both lines to the local radiator shop, and had them press on the Saginaw pump fitting and the bronco gearbox fitting and make the hose a little longer than stock to help with the fit. They use those special crimping deals, so you need to make sure that the lines and fittings are appropriately lined up before crimping them, as these lines don't twist much once in place. I also had to lessen the bend in the pump side hard line to allow it to fit without hitting the return side. The best part is it only cost 20 bucks and they did a great job. They even let me take the line home, adjust the fittings and then return it so they could press it together without prepaying. (Sorry for the bad picture.)
Fitting at Pump
So I got everything in and put back together and was stoked. All problems solved. WRONG. The first pump had a very bad knock to it. As usual, remanufactured stuff can be bad from the get go and sure enough, my pump was. As a result, I had to remove and reinstall everything. I have learned a good lesson with this and other swaps that reman stuff sucks most of the time. If you are inexperienced and think that you did something wrong if there is a problem, chances are you did it right, the pump sucks. They do have a lifetime warranty though and it is pretty easy to change out.
Pump Installed with old belt
I ended up buying a 1.5 inch longer serpentine belt for it after a while. (As info, apparently the Goodyear brand belts have a lifetime warranty.) The stock one just barely made it back on after the swap. The pulley is only slightly larger, but the bracket pushes it out a little too. I ran the stock belt for a while, but with 110K miles the water pump bearing was starting to squeal so I threw on the longer one. I ‘think’ the tight belt sped up the water pump demise, but I can’t be sure.
Everyone asks me if I am happy with the swap. At first, I would have said no because of all the headaches I had to go through. Now, a few months later, YES. I have no more squeal, revel in the fact that it is much easier to find Saginaw Pumps, and ‘swear’ that my turning radius improved. I know that there really could not have been a change to the turning radius with a pump swap, but somewhere in there it seems to turn much easier. There was no change in steering input effort, but it feels much better now. I can not really quantify the difference, nor describe it well. Everyone knows his or her rig, and notices subtle changes, so I am sure you can appreciate when I say, "I did notice a difference, and am very happy with the swap."
After listening to my old stock pump whine and make shrill noises while wheeling, I finally decided I would try and do the Saginaw swap. I had read some great info about the subject, one of them being a write up by Russ, a.k.a. Mudman at
http://www.superford.org/users/mudman111/chevy.htm
This was a pretty informative write-up, and definitely got me going in the right direction. However, I was faced with some problems that Mudman apparently did not have.
I pulled all my stuff (bracket, pump, pulley and high-pressure hose) out of a 91 E150 with the 5.8 liter motor. The hoses were still attached to the pump, but had been cut halfway down the line. This ended up not being of consequence since I would not have been able to use these lines anyhow. Here are the parts that I did get from the junkyard for 50 dollars, less the line
The new parts w/o the lines
It is important to get the pulley along with the bracket and pump. The stock pulley will not fit on the Saginaw pump. You really do not even need the pump, since all Saginaw pumps are essentially the same and I purchase a remanufactured unit from Kragen with a lifetime warranty for 60 bucks.
As far as the installation went, it really is pretty easy to do. Start by removing the fan belt, and then the A/C compressor from the stock bracket. Tie the A/C pump out of the way or just flip it up on top of the motor. Then remove the entire bracket and stock pump all in one piece. There is no need to break any of this apart. Once removed, I spent a few minutes and just tried to clean up the area before beginning to install the new stuff.
The Two setups side by side.
I would really suggest two things when dealing with the pulley removal from the Saginaw pump should you decide to replace the junkyard pump with a new one. Try and find a GOOD pulley remover and use an air impact to aid with the removal. I did not have access to either, and my hands literally hurt for days from the amount of pressure I had to put on the wrenches. Also, I ended up marring and deforming the pulley a little because the removal tool I rented from Pep Boys sucked. Erik M. provided this link on the Big Broncos list, and this was the one I ended up using and believe it to be the best setup I have seen. http://buy.snapon.com/catalog/pro_det.asp?P65=yes&qt=1&tool=all&catItem=true&INV_ONHAND=&FREIGHT=&qty=1&Item_id=10313&PartNo=CJ124A&Price=66.95&ListPrice=66.95&FORMNAME=6&Desc=Puller%2C+Power+Steering%2FAlternator+Pulley+ %28for+Chrysler%2C+Ford%2C+and+GM%29&SUB_Cat_ID=1624398&SUB_Cat_NAME=Special+Automotive+Pullers&Cat_ID=1623769&Cat_NAME=Pullers&group_id=1244&group_NAME=Power+Steering+and+Alternator+Pullers+% 2F+Single+Pullers&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
When I was trying to install the A/C pump into the new bracket, I ran into problems that others have not. The bolts from the van were a larger diameter than the 10 mm ones my bronco used to secure the A/C pump to the top of the bracket. After some consideration, I ultimately decided to drill out the holes in my A/C compressor so the van bolts would fit. This ended up being very simple, and the tops and bottoms of the A/C guides were actually little taps/dowels pressed into the holes to take up the space. I had to drill from the top and bottom to get the full length of the A/C guides honed out, but this ended up working quite well and there were no ‘trueness’ issues. The van’s bolts ended up staying at the Junkyard, seems they liked it there, so I went to the hardware store to buy longer bolts of the correct size. When buying grade 5 or 8 hardware longer than 2 inches or so, the threads are only about 1 inch long and the rest is a smooth bore shaft. This wold not work with configuration I had because the threads needed to be longer, so I ended up having to go and buy some motor bolts from the auto shop that would work. Not sure if this would happen in all cases, but I suggest grabbing the bolts for the yard just in case. Also, BE CAREFUL not to overtighten these, as it is easy to strip out the threads on the block with the new hardware.
So I thought my problems were over. But no, I was on to the next one. The stock high-pressure line was not going to work. I do not know what others have done about this, or if they even had this problem. The fitting required at the back of the pump was flared much more than the stock bronco fitting. The thread size was the same, and actually would mount on to the pump, but I was concerned because the fitting itself was much narrower. The stock pump fitting comes to a narrow point without a rubber o-ring, while the Saginaw pump fitting has a much wider flare to it. At the other end, I had no fitting from the van, so I had to use the Bronco line. Since no one makes a line like what I needed, I had one custom made. I took both lines to the local radiator shop, and had them press on the Saginaw pump fitting and the bronco gearbox fitting and make the hose a little longer than stock to help with the fit. They use those special crimping deals, so you need to make sure that the lines and fittings are appropriately lined up before crimping them, as these lines don't twist much once in place. I also had to lessen the bend in the pump side hard line to allow it to fit without hitting the return side. The best part is it only cost 20 bucks and they did a great job. They even let me take the line home, adjust the fittings and then return it so they could press it together without prepaying. (Sorry for the bad picture.)
Fitting at Pump
So I got everything in and put back together and was stoked. All problems solved. WRONG. The first pump had a very bad knock to it. As usual, remanufactured stuff can be bad from the get go and sure enough, my pump was. As a result, I had to remove and reinstall everything. I have learned a good lesson with this and other swaps that reman stuff sucks most of the time. If you are inexperienced and think that you did something wrong if there is a problem, chances are you did it right, the pump sucks. They do have a lifetime warranty though and it is pretty easy to change out.
Pump Installed with old belt
I ended up buying a 1.5 inch longer serpentine belt for it after a while. (As info, apparently the Goodyear brand belts have a lifetime warranty.) The stock one just barely made it back on after the swap. The pulley is only slightly larger, but the bracket pushes it out a little too. I ran the stock belt for a while, but with 110K miles the water pump bearing was starting to squeal so I threw on the longer one. I ‘think’ the tight belt sped up the water pump demise, but I can’t be sure.
Everyone asks me if I am happy with the swap. At first, I would have said no because of all the headaches I had to go through. Now, a few months later, YES. I have no more squeal, revel in the fact that it is much easier to find Saginaw Pumps, and ‘swear’ that my turning radius improved. I know that there really could not have been a change to the turning radius with a pump swap, but somewhere in there it seems to turn much easier. There was no change in steering input effort, but it feels much better now. I can not really quantify the difference, nor describe it well. Everyone knows his or her rig, and notices subtle changes, so I am sure you can appreciate when I say, "I did notice a difference, and am very happy with the swap."