Manual tranny in, E4OD out... what are the options? [Archive] - FSB Forums

: Manual tranny in, E4OD out... what are the options?


dan50
04-11-2009, 04:57 PM
Showing my ignorance here. I want to pick up a 96 Bronco, 351W/E4OD later on, but I want to lose the E4OD and install a manual transmission. What are my best/better options for this? I just want to row my own gears in a Bronco, but I my head is too big to buy an XL...

SigEpBlue
04-11-2009, 05:17 PM
This is going to be tricky, because I'm not sure whether there is a 1996 OBD-II PCM with a manual transmission as standard equipment. Off the top of my head, I'd say you'd be looking for one out of a manual transmission & 5.0L-equipped truck. I'm sure Fireguy probably either has one on his list, or knows of one that'd work. The other option would be to look for an F-series truck with that setup (maybe an F-250 with a ZF gearbox???), but remember you're going to have to stick with a 1996 PCM.

A smarter-yet option might be to obtain a programmed/programmable chip to change the transmission strategy switch (it's an integer somewhere in the PCM's program). This way, there's no changing of the PCM or wiring harness, and it'd all be done in programming.

psmwrx
04-11-2009, 05:34 PM
Once you get past the PCM issues Sig was stating you just need to aquirer all the parts. It isn't a difficult swap. I would look for a ZF-5 but you do have the option of a M5R2 if you aren't looking to get crazy with your bronco. The Mazda trannies are not supposed to be as stout as the ZF's are.

dan50
04-11-2009, 05:40 PM
This Bronco will essentially only be for vacation with the family, instead of buying an Expy. But I want a manual transmission, just because it would be cool. So no engine changes, just a run of the mill 351W. Would the Mazda 5 speed survive behind that? I remember back when I was at Virginia Tech, that was the tranny that a couple of the guys had in their Broncos... but they were driving 89-91s with 5.0s. I had my 87 351W HO 4 bbl with C6. :)

dan50
04-11-2009, 05:44 PM
This is going to be tricky, because I'm not sure whether there is a 1996 OBD-II PCM with a manual transmission as standard equipment. Off the top of my head, I'd say you'd be looking for one out of a manual transmission & 5.0L-equipped truck. I'm sure Fireguy probably either has one on his list, or knows of one that'd work. The other option would be to look for an F-series truck with that setup (maybe an F-250 with a ZF gearbox???), but remember you're going to have to stick with a 1996 PCM.

A smarter-yet option might be to obtain a programmed/programmable chip to change the transmission strategy switch (it's an integer somewhere in the PCM's program). This way, there's no changing of the PCM or wiring harness, and it'd all be done in programming.

OK, I'm still trying to process this.

It sounds like what you're saying is that the 96 OBD-II PCM will not take to missing the E4OD, and possibly throw the computer into a limp mode?

My understanding with the speed density rigs was that the computer didn't care if there was an automatic there or not, you just shorted the neutral safety switch. Or maybe they swapped to a 351W/C6 computer, I can't remember.

psmwrx
04-11-2009, 05:48 PM
This Bronco will essentially only be for vacation with the family, instead of buying an Expy. But I want a manual transmission, just because it would be cool. So no engine changes, just a run of the mill 351W. Would the Mazda 5 speed survive behind that? I remember back when I was at Virginia Tech, that was the tranny that a couple of the guys had in their Broncos... but they were driving 89-91s with 5.0s. I had my 87 351W HO 4 bbl with C6. :)

I got my M5R2 from a junkyard F-350 with a 351 that the previous owner had swapped in and it is still operating fine. I am however putting it behind a lightly modified 302, so only time will tell, I guess. It is only a temporary while I build my other engine and tranny.

Worn Out F150
04-11-2009, 07:02 PM
Would the Mazda 5 speed survive behind that?

It wasn't offered that way from the factory, but I have never heard of it breaking due to too much power either, but then again not many people have used it behind more than a stock 302.

broncodude26
04-11-2009, 07:07 PM
It wasn't offered that way from the factory, but I have never heard of it breaking due to too much power either, but then again not many people have used it behind more than a stock 302.

You sure about that? What was the manual transmissions that were put in the F250's that had 351's?

ToddACimer
04-11-2009, 07:48 PM
You'll want a ZF5 from an F250 with a 351. The computer wont be an issue since the engine doesnt read any inputs from the transmission. The M5OD was not designed to withstand the extra torque of a 351 which is why it was never combined with a 351 from the factory.

dan50
04-11-2009, 07:52 PM
From what I've been reading I should just go ahead and buy an F-250 parts truck to get the pedal assembly, transmission, crossmember, etc... since the tranny itself looks like it goes for $1400ish from a yard. You can pick up a truck for $1500ish...

SigEpBlue
04-11-2009, 07:53 PM
OK, I'm still trying to process this.

It sounds like what you're saying is that the 96 OBD-II PCM will not take to missing the E4OD, and possibly throw the computer into a limp mode?

My understanding with the speed density rigs was that the computer didn't care if there was an automatic there or not, you just shorted the neutral safety switch. Or maybe they swapped to a 351W/C6 computer, I can't remember.

Yours isn't speed-density though, if it's the factory setup on a 1996 MY 5.8L. You should have MAF, but that's not the issue. Your PCM will not know what to do with typical engine loads and stuff on it, with the automatic transmission gone. The E4OD is controlled by the PCM, and it's programmed with stuff like load, shift points, expected values, etc., which is a lot more involved than simply running the engine. You could conceivably do this with a C6-equipped truck, but even then, the deceleration maps wouldn't be right, and you'd risk stalling when coming to a stop, and perhaps some funkiness between and after shifts. Using the correct PCM for the application is the absolute best option, when there is not the ability to reprogram one.

79F150
04-11-2009, 09:34 PM
Here is Ogeechee's build where he put an NP 435 in a 95 Bronco... http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129834

Your options are...

M5OD IIRC the Mazda 5 speed best with a 302
ZF-5 Stronger than the M5OD
T-19 Borg Warner Granny 4 speed
T-18 Borg Warner 4 speed
NP-435 New Process Granny 4 speed

You will have to get a computer that is for a manual truck like an F150-250 or a forestry Bronco (because they were more common to have manuals). IIRC some mustang computers work. (talk to FireGuy about that)

Another option if you wanted to get away from the E4OD but wanted to stay manual you could convert to a C6 but you will not have OD..;)