Hello. Ive been stuck at work the last two days for most of the morning evening and night and i have been doing alot of thinking. The way i went about this whole situation was wrong on my part. Instead of talking it out and working something out i just let my frustration build and then just let it out. Id like to get one thing clear which might have been overlooked in my previous post. What happened occured 6 to 7 months ago. This wasnt a recent thing.It was a one time thing not an ongoing thing. Does it make it right. No. But he did say he would make it right and lack of communication between me and him because of other things going on caused me to assume that he was not doing anything about it. I never, out of sheer stupidity and lack of a scrote, went out of my way to ask him about it. Thats where i ****ed up. This is where my mistake was. I didnt ask or say anything because i assumed too much. None of the money involved was from today through 7 months back. I know Bryan wouldnt do this again after that time. He was sincere in his reply to us but like i said i failed to communicate with him about it. i did too much assuming. Ive gone offroading with him many times and he really is a good person who has come upon some bad luck while breaking his back and everything associated with that. I dont think he deserves what people are saying. I was mad and said some things which i shouldnt have said but i never threatened his or his families life. Whoever did that should be ashamed of themselves. While thinking about this is came to the conclusion that we should give bryan a chance to say his side of this. There are always 2 sides to the story. I see this now and i think its the right thing to do.

To Bryan. Im going to call you in a bit. I truely am sorry for doing what i did. I know this probably wont change things but ive been feeling like shit and i know that i have lost 2 good friends. That hurts me the most.



(can a mod please pin this)

This is probably the best place for Bryan to tell his side. That's only fair. I think alot of damage has been done, that will take a looong time to heal or go away. This is a sad sad thing that happen, a lot of emoticons. I know we have all done things in our past that we wish we could take back. I know I have.

Only three things I can think of, that could have avoided this whole fiasco:

Ask for a 'loan' from the MBB account. We're generally reasonable people, and were happy, ready and willing to donate money for the site and stickers. I'm sure those that had donated would have been understanding and sympathetic towards Bryan for asking to borrow the money in the account

Speak up - Bryan still has yet to explain himself. All he's done is explode and behave irrationally

Take back the "stickers will be sent out for a 1 dollar donation" and send them out with an SASE, like you had said in the beginning



While I haven't been as harsh in the replies and verbal attacks towards Bryan, I still don't believe what has happened is OK, by any means, and I, for one, feel an explaination the least he could do

http://www.fourdoorbronco.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=f0c8a28754131cdd10a2bc66a8c99630&act=ST&f=5&t=70&st=0&&#entry3

Only three things I can think of, that could have avoided this whole fiasco:

Ask for a 'loan' from the MBB account. We're generally reasonable people, and were happy, ready and willing to donate money for the site and stickers. I'm sure those that had donated would have been understanding and sympathetic towards Bryan for asking to borrow the money in the account

Speak up - Bryan still has yet to explain himself. All he's done is explode and behave irrationally

Take back the "stickers will be sent out for a 1 dollar donation" and send them out with an SASE, like you had said in the beginning



While I haven't been as harsh in the replies and verbal attacks towards Bryan, I still don't believe what has happened is OK, by any means, and I, for one, feel an explaination the least he could do

You bring up 3 good suggestions/views

Regardless of when it happend or that it only happend one time, my trust is still broken. Though I'm still more than willing to hear B's side.

i still disagrre about jopes being banned though, he spoke up and someone couldn't deal with so he got banned??? :roll:

There is no getting around the fact thatthe site should have been up and running for MONTHS possibly YEARS with the money that members sent in...it should not have gone offline for 10 minutes except for tech reasons.

What happened is like stealing from the cash register...you get FIRED for that...possibly even legal action is taken. I am a man of principal and to me it is the point that sticks in my mind....there has been no offer of apology, nothign AT ALL since this has happened...only hostile action.

being defensive is one thing, but the actions portrayed were more than just a "knee/jerk" reaction.

I have an open mind and will listen to both side sides, but it better be long winded and detailed because we DESERVE that. I am members of many boards and this community is the tightest I have ever been privaledged to be a part of.....let's hear it B :roll:

Regardless of when it happend or that it only happend one time, my trust is still broken. Though I'm still more than willing to hear B's side.

said perfectly

well this is kinda off topic but kinda not..... why was Jopes banned? and is this why MBB never switched servers to the one that Biohazard(i think) was offering for free to MBB?

B has to understand that when you cry wolf to often people tend to loose trust.How many times was MBB down last year 4.......5 ? Because of this the data base was lost once or twice . This is the kinda thing that frustrates the members . While yes it is his site , he looks to the members for money to keep it up. And we trust him to do just that . It didn't take Raf's post to let us know something was wrong , I'm sure we all felt it. There was always one excuse after another . If B has too many other things going on to keep the site up and running the right way then turn it over to someone that will . Like I said before HIS site , OUR money.Do what's right for everyone.

Over the last few day a lot of things were said , mostly out of anger ,because we found out our trust was broken.This will take time to get over.But it won't be forgotten.....B made a mistake of the worst kind , taking money from the members . These members are the foundation of the site and I really don't know if it can be rebuilt.

Also you just don't go around suspending people just because they pose a question you don't like. Especially if these are the same people you look to for support.If it's our money we deserve to have our questions answered.Whether it's his site our not . I hope he rethinks some of his recent actions.

Finally . when the dust settles and the smoke clears I 'm sure theres enough room on the internet for BOTH these sites . It will be up to the members if BOTH survive . I hope the owners of both of these sites remember , if you look to the members for support , then have a respect for them . Tell the truth and be fair, goes a long way in the long run.

if you look to the members for support , then have a respect for them . Tell the truth and be fair, goes a long way in the long run.

Im with you. Raf, get some beer, it will help the icky feeling to go away.
:D
I like the "open door" policy over here. It doesnt feel like a dictatorship when you see the owners of this site actively participating in the forums.

It is funny that on MBB whenever anyone had anything stolen, the responses that were posted. Nobody likes a thief. I am sure that everybody here works hard for their money and doesn't like to just throw it away. I understand that B went through some really tough times and I can appreciate that. We all have been through hard times. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. I just think that things were handled wrong. Live and learn, once you get in a hole it is twice as hard to get back out. I only hope the best for B and M and hope that everybody learned something from this. It is over and done I say let B tell his side and drop it. We have all made mistakes. We often refered to MBB as a family. If a family member has problems do you just kick them out and forget about them or try to help them with their problem? Only a few of us know the whole story (I only know what I have read) so lets give B a chance and get past this...

I would really like to see B post some kind of response, either here or over on the mbb board. It would show (to me at least) that he is a man with a concience and would like to get this behind him.

I didn't read all the replied here, but here's my buck twenty-five.

Aside from the stolen money, Bryan refused to let MBB go to someone who cared and put time into it (Raf.) Raf offered to buy the site and take over since he was running things so smoothly anyhow and since he was THERE. Bryan was AWOL from the site 99% of the time. :roll:

Another thing was the hissy Bryan pitched about the stickers Raf had drawn up, cause it was "Raf's" Bronco. Anyone with half a brain could see, although it was a white '95, it was NOT Raf's Bronco. :roll:


I don't care what Bryan has to say for himself, I think he's selfish, and I'll never go back to MBB....oh, wait, I can't...I've been BANNED. :roll:

Bryan's side of the story has been posted at MyBigBronco.com, since as soon as this all happened he was banned from FourDoorBronco.com.

Please read it before going further, after a while I will come back to tell the side of the story I saw.

The original is posted at:
http://forumz.mybigbronco.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=42cafab6b6090ea7eb225bbdd7a8ba86;a ct=ST;f=1;t=386;st=60

Since I am now aware some of you, specificlly the ones who sent threatening emails are now banned, I will repeat what Bryan said:


From MyBigBronco.com

Posted: Feb. 28 2003,12:29

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Somehow, since I only come to this site but once a month to make sure its working, there has been a HUGE misunderstanding..

I OWN this website.. I PAY for this website. When it goes Down, I FIX this website..

When I started this website, it was because my Honda Civic was stolen, and a friend sold me a $500 POS Bronco that barely ran. I needed help learning what I bought, and I used to spend 20+ hours a week geeking out on this thing - making all the little logos, stickers, icons, member pages (Thank God that's gone), and all the little complaints that come up all the time.

I've done all this stuff for a bunch of strangers that I will most likely never meet. I wish I actually made money off this site, but for about a year now, its been a LOT more trouble than its worth...

About a year ago, when I blew my Motor up at Big Bear, That is when I started re-evaluating this site...

The $35 a month was being billed to my Dad's Credit Card and he was starting to get tired of it, because I didn't pay him - we both forgot, and by the time he realized it, there was about a year and a half of monthly $35 bills on his credit card, and he wanted it to stop, and wanted me to pay him back.

Right about this time, I broke my Back in two places - T4 and T5 Vertebre are smashed together, and I couldn't walk for 3 months... I was on disability, and surviving off $600 a month.

My first disability check went to my Dad to pay him back the MBB money, and I was kinda pissed because the website should have paid for itself, and I needed money.. Since I just handed my Dad a bunch of money for MBB, I went to my Paypal account to see how it was doing, and there was about the same amount of money as I gave my Dad. So, I spent it to reimburse myself..

At this time, I got a PayPal Credit Card, and Gave the number to VenturesOnline.com and tore it up - Ensuring that IF MBB can't pay for itself, it will be shut down to avoid me personally getting into debt again..

So... MBB re-started with a $0 balance about 7 months ago. At the time, I felt that the $300 bucks in my personal paypal barely covered my time or debt with this site.

Since then, the entire history of the MBB part of my paypal account has been posted here, so we don't lose track..

The MBB account has been built up to almost $400 bucks since this huge mis-communication started. I just spent $252 + Tax for 500 stickers without asking anyone. I spent another $130 for two hours of tech support to get the Database upgraded.. Along with Paying for the monthly hosting that was a month behind ($35+$35) Truth is - there are all kinds of hidden expenses that come up.. What I do with my website, and my paypal is my business. I don't need people second guessing my finances.

Considering most of the donations I've received were for "My Hard Work" and included long emails that thanked me personally for starting this site, and for unselfishly keeping it running, I feel that means I can do whatever I want with it..

Truth is - I've actually been really good with the donations, and have never spent any of it on anything but the site, but when I had bills (from this site) over my head, and nowhere but my donations to pay for it - well - that's where I get it from. "Rob" Peter to pay "Paul" (Peter being donations, and Paul being my Dad)

Make your own judgements, and do what you wish.. When you "Donate" money to me for my hard work - I'm going to then make a note of that donation and immediately withdraw it so it doesn't ever bet mixed in with the "Sticker Money" which is totally seperate (And spent)



None of this stuff really matters - the site works, and the bills are paid, and I have the stickers... For over 7 months - every dime donated has been accounted for right here in this thread...

wrong wrong wrong!

What bryan does with SOMEONE else's money needs to be accounted for. These poeple invested their own money. If bryan was willing to let MBB die, why didn't he just say so, and sell it to Raf when the offer was made? That 'dictatorship' word comes to mind again. Why did he say that he stole and would make up for it, but not explain what's going on, and then do nothing about it for months?

And what about this alleged lawsuit he's threatening? What with that? All I've read are excuses....but he's said it himself - it's HIS website to do what HE wants with it

No matter really, I'm done with it, and I feel bad for those that had sent in money in the last 6-7months.....you'll never see that money again

I feel somewhat the same way. If B wants to say that it's HIS website and this and that, fine, keep it. MBB was constantly breaking down, it was almost never up-to-date, and half the links didn't work. What you spent that money on should have been publicly posted from the beginning, none of this "I'll do whatever I want with it" crap. I understand that B, and the former moderators, have lives outside of MBB, but to just let the site look half-assed like that is inexcusable.

There were many offers to help, free server use, all that good stuff. All I ever heard from B and M was that it was their site and nobody elses. Fine, keep your site. If neither of you were open to changes and improvements, keep your site.

BigB




Group: Team MBB
Posts: 10
Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: Feb. 28 2003,12:33

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This topic is closed for discussion... Donations are "At your own Risk"

I for one want to have nothing to do with either of you or your site. I'm just walking away from it, without hatred or sour feelings. It's behind me now.

[
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"I OWN this website.. I PAY for this website. When it goes Down, I FIX this website.."

"Considering most of the donations I've received were for "My Hard Work" and included long emails that thanked me personally for starting this site, and for unselfishly keeping it running, I feel that means I can do whatever I want with it.."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Truth is Bryan it is our money that makes YOUR site work.You have two other choices.......pay for it out of your pocket , sell advertising . Then it's YOUR site. Your like the kid with the ball.....play by my rules or I'll take my ball and go home. But if your saying you can take OUR money and not give us any imput without fear of being suspended....take your ball B, go home,we don't want to play with you anymore.

[quote="BroncoBabe"]

Another thing was the hissy Bryan pitched about the stickers Raf had drawn up, cause it was "Raf's" Bronco. Anyone with half a brain could see, although it was a white '95, it was NOT Raf's Bronco. :roll:

quote]

It was My Bronco ya My White 95 :twisted: :lol:

I dont think we will get an apology from B, it appears that he really did not have the same level of interest in this bronco lifestyle as other more dedicated people. Dropping in once a month shows his level of interest in this. Probably hoped at one point that his site would become profitable and he could make a buck. If he though different, and had concerns about the well being of the site, he would have passed it on to RAF.
I always wondered why he never took advise on site changes, i guess it was because it did not interest him as much as it did some of us.

Whatever, BRING ON THE BEER< BABY. ITS FRIDAY!
im getting some 50 series flowmasters to start my custom exhaust tonight. Woo hoo.! LONG LIVE BEER< BOOOBIES AND BRONCOS!

yeah baby, mines FULLSIZE.

http://www.highdesertaz.com/images/fsb_01.jpg

just another quick note. i never offered to buy the site. At one time it was offered to me and later i was planning to make an offer for it but that never took place.

i, for one, appreciate this information that bryan posted. like i said, lack of communication on our part lead to many assumptions by myself. :cry:

S'ok, damage is done, and taco's right, we're not going to get an apology from him. Since I never got a chance to make another donation, I don't feel as upset as those of you that did, particularly, Cultex. MY question is to those that used to be Team MBB - doesn't it burn you guys to have invested that much time and effort into a site, only to have bryan take credit for everything?

Those of that have actually met Bryan says he's a helluva guy....never having met him, I have to take your word for it. I also don't believe he's really as bad as we made him out to be - we shot first, asked questions later...now his site is going to die because of it. Now, don't roll your eyes reading this, I'm not making any excuses, I'm still done with MBB, but I also believe we should give Bryan the benefit of the doubt. Trust has been compromised, but I'm willing to learn to let the past be the past, but that's going to take some time....longer for those that actually lost money in this

Everybody hold hands now! :arrow: Koom-by-yah my Lord, Koom-by-yaaahhh............


[insert joke here] And where's wtf? during all this? That sucker's quick to flame someone who f*cked up [/insert joke here]



(this is the last post I make regarding this topic)

I OWN this website.. I PAY for this website. When it goes Down, I FIX this website..

When I started this website, it was because my Honda Civic was stolen, and a friend sold me a $500 POS Bronco that barely ran. I needed help learning what I bought,

Yes B, it is your website, but who made your website what it was? It sure wasn't you by yourself. (You said yourself you didn't know anything about Broncos and needed help learning.) It was the members of the site that made it what it was. Without the people that joined together and shared (unselfishly) the wealth of knowledge that accumulated in the database of MBB, you would still be where you were the day you bought that "$500 POS Bronco". And after the "BIG" crash, it was the "people" that came together and built it back up from nothing.You were just too blind to actually see what you had. I feel sorry for you little man, I really do.

Well, that's all I have to say on the issue.

S'ok, damage is done, and taco's right, we're not going to get an apology from him. Since I never got a chance to make another donation, I don't feel as upset as those of you that did, particularly, Cultex. MY question is to those that used to be Team MBB - doesn't it burn you guys to have invested that much time and effort into a site, only to have bryan take credit for everything?

Those of that have actually met Bryan says he's a helluva guy....never having met him, I have to take your word for it. I also don't believe he's really as bad as we made him out to be - we shot first, asked questions later...now his site is going to die because of it. Now, don't roll your eyes reading this, I'm not making any excuses, I'm still done with MBB, but I also believe we should give Bryan the benefit of the doubt. Trust has been compromised, but I'm willing to learn to let the past be the past, but that's going to take some time....longer for those that actually lost money in this

Everybody hold hands now! :arrow: Koom-by-yah my Lord, Koom-by-yaaahhh............


[insert joke here] And where's wtf? during all this? That sucker's quick to flame someone who f*cked up [/insert joke here]



(this is the last post I make regarding this topic)
i think WTF(nobs ) broke or something cuz hes hardly around and not as much a smart a$$ anymore

just another quick note. i never offered to buy the site. At one time it was offered to me and later i was planning to make an offer for it but that never took place.

i, for one, appreciate this information that bryan posted. like i said, lack of communication on our part lead to many assumptions by myself. :cry:

just to clearify this, I was the one who suggested to Bryan several times that he should turn the site over to us cause it was obviously just a pain to him but we didn't ever get a response yes or no about it, except he did once turn over most of the responsibility of mantaining the site to Raf.

and RAF :twak: there was lack of communication on BOTH sides. And as I said, the responsibility to clear things up wasn't ours. Your assumptions where the same as the rest of the team, not only yours. I know you don't drink but will drink whatever someone hands to you....someone hand him a jack n coke :lol:

yeah baby, mines FULLSIZE.

http://www.highdesertaz.com/images/fsb_01.jpg


I love that graphic, do I see a new logo/sticker on the horizion :)

I love that graphic, do I see a new logo/sticker on the horizion :)

I got one in the works so don't vote yet.... I will present it soon! 8)

That graphic is badass!

maybe we should have a FSB logo/sticker contest ??

count me in, lets set a cutoff date, cause i have a bunch of painting and honey-do's this weekend, i am actually taking a break from painting (inside my house) right now. But i have some ideas. So, One week maybe? PS.,
we should relocate the sticker, logo conversations to some other thread.

[insert joke here] And where's wtf? during all this? That sucker's quick to flame someone who f*cked up [/insert joke here]

I'm right here.

my connection has been screwing up for the past week and died for the last day or so. I couldn't read everything assc. with the goings on,hence slow to flame. After reading what I've found so far, I still don't think i'll flame him. I choose to disassociate. I've had freinds I've never spoken to again for things they do (what is not important) and never gave it a second thought. So doing the same on the internet is not a problem.

I'll still read what's over there but as far as participating.....I don't think I will. Boo fkn hoo to the whole situation :roll:

lets get on with the new board 8)

I am not sure but those of us who have donated money and time, deserve to know where our money is going, we know where our time is so why cant we know where our money is? My.023

Allcruisen

dsot-you learning anything from this? Take notes...you sure you want this responsibilty? This site is off to a great start, please lets all keep it that way! Thanks to all everyone has done for me an dthe Bronco community since I have had my bronco! (Oct 2000) Ya'll got to admit MBB...it was a hell of a run! Thanks B for what we had...but I must be movin' on...

Aside from the stolen money, Bryan refused to let MBB go to someone who cared and put time into it (Raf.) Raf offered to buy the site and take over since he was running things so smoothly anyhow and since he was THERE. Bryan was AWOL from the site 99% of the time. :roll:



I totaly agree

well we will always be here listening to each other and trying new things here :lol:

Dude came off like a SNOB, so... MBB = RIP! :flipoff:

I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been around and as social as most of the rest of you, but from what I've read so far, (and I've been digging around now for 3 hours trying to find out just what the hell is going on), other than the fact that B didn't mention exactly how much was in his PayPal that he spent as he saw fit, I don't understand how anything was stolen. Could someone please just write a detailed paragraph or two on the subject that explains why a large amount of people feel ripped off? I don't get it. Unless my math is wrong, and it very may well be, if he took $600 from the site's PayPal and paid himself back for using his $600 disability check to pay off his debts to his father's credit card in the amount of $600 for an accumulation of billings for the website, didn't he just use the money we donated to pay for the website? I'm confused. There's more to it than this, right? Seems to me that if there was even $700 in the PayPal account, fair play to him. Much more than that, though, and I can see a problem. Anyway, just thought I'd see if I can get some clarification as to what all the hubbub's about.

Nice to see everyone more or less is stickin' together in their love for the Bronco and the stories and people we can relate to because of it. I'd make an entry in the introduction arena, but I'd kinda like to have a better grasp as to what's goin' on first.

Keep diggin around, the answer shall present itself.
Or ask for a PM from someone. If someone writes you a paragraph on this thread, then someone else will debate those facts and this will never end. Basically, the old board had conflict in management vs. members. Like any conflict similar to this, the coalition of members will pack up and move on, creating an enviornment that better suits their likes and needs.
Accusations and other garbage were being tossed around like a food fight. But, the more info you post about this the more wood you toss into the debate fire, who did what, finger pointing etc. So, look at it as a revolution. Similar to the pilgrims, we left our old homeland and traveled to a vast new land for new opportunities and freedom from oppression.

Except the pilgrims didnt have pimp-ass broncos.

I don't know...I heard on the History channel that the Mayflower was actually pretty pimped out. :roll:

This will be my last reply also on this subject.

Raf-Has helped me in the past
Dave-Yup him too.
WTF?-Yup him too.
Jay-Yup him too.
Dustin-Yup more than anyone in the world.
MM-Yup him too.
Etc.
For the most part, the usual suspects helped me out but not once has Bryan replied to one of my posts, helped me out, or ever said "Hey thanks for being here? "Thanks for the money" etc.

I am pissed that I sent money, and I am pissed that he deleted all of my PM's, I am pissed that he is being a cry baby fag and saying "its mine" and crying like a little girl.
If he didnt want the site he should have given it to someone who did.
He has a hard-on for the site and it is going no where now so i hope he is happy. If I ever meet him I will probably piss on his shoes.

I am glad to see that the "usual suspects' are here and I hope this site stays strong for a long long time.

Brian go f-uck yourself and close "Your" site your done....
Have fun with your law suit too. You should probably get along well with lawyers since they lie and rip people off too.

I am not sure but those of us who have donated money...deserve to know where our money is going Allcruisen

Appreciate all the posts on wth happened over there. I made a couple
donations in the 18 months as a member. I trust ppl and would hope the
monies would be used for the site. :cheers:

that was nice of you to send money. It does suck that its gone, but some got it worse than others

http://www.hallospass.de/gif_1/horror/gif_img/horror003.gif

Well I guess I am in the minority on this...somewhat. I posted on 4 door Bronco but that post was deleted while I was at TDS so I did not get to see who saw it or what they thought about it. So here it is again, in a shorter version.

I could care less what or how the money that is donated is used. As long as the site stays up and is kept up. At pirate4x4 you get a red star but you dont get a explanation of how the money is used. If you get $600 in donations and the site costs $100 and you spend the other $500 for upgrades and such or even a "take the mods to dinner" meeting I dont care. But if you spend the $600 and dont pay the $100 site bill and it goes down...then I have a problem. I wanted the money posted on the MBB site because there had already been a couple of times that the site went down and someone stated it was because B forgot to pay and I wanted to be able to look and see that there was enough funds at that time.

The reason that I am done is as follows.

1) The site going down all the time.
2) The fact that Jopes questioned something and was banned for it.
3) When the crap hit the fan, B found it easier to take the site away from all the members rather than being a man and dealing with the situation. I never posted a negitive thing there. I did post something simular to this post on fourdoorbronco and the next thing I knew I was banned too.
4) Little b made matters a lot worse, flying off like she did. Not to mention that she was cussing out everyone first. I was not even involved in the topic and was pissed after reading her posts. She said "if you dont like it leave" so I did.


Now the suggestions I had

1) make it known from the start that donations are used anyway that the main admin person feels it is necessary.
2) Make it known that nothing is for free. Set a price for items such as stickers and shirts. It should be made so that the money received for items is used to replinish the stock, making it self supporting and making it so the items are always in stock.
3) if a donation is made the person should be desiginated somehow (like the red star) and should be allowed extra privilages such as being able to post is some areas that others can only read and be able to view some that others can not see at all.

Like I said I posted something like this on another board so if you replied or saw it there I never saw the reply because I was out of town.

AMEN BROTHER!!! I could not agree more.

but but but... I thought we were all brainwashed? :shocked:

f*ck it .. it's over fella's ................ it boiled to a matter of trust ...we trusted B and he broke that in us..... bye bye