broken screw extractor [Archive] - FSB Forums

: broken screw extractor


jimdawg_2024
04-10-2010, 04:14 PM
Well, the title says it all. Drilled out a hole in a bolt that was busted in the head of my motor. Proceeded with the screw extractor and snapped it inside the hole.

Can anyone tell me how to get it out without welding, since I dont have a welder.

jakeracefox
04-10-2010, 04:32 PM
Well, the title says it all. Drilled out a hole in a bolt that was busted in the head of my motor. Proceeded with the screw extractor and snapped it inside the hole.

Can anyone tell me how to get it out without welding, since I dont have a welder.

center punch it and drill it out and try again this time with a better grade easy out

jimdawg_2024
04-10-2010, 06:30 PM
Will a standard drill bit drill through it? I though they were harder than the extractors.

Papa
04-10-2010, 09:50 PM
We always use a solid carbide drill bit to drill out easy outs. You definitely will need something harder than the easy out.

And then like jakeracefox said, get a high quality easy out. Rigid used to make some of the best easy outs. I've been in a office soon long now, not sure if they still make 'em...

Papa

Alvin in AZ
04-10-2010, 10:11 PM
Screw/bolt extractors really suck! :/

If the bolt itself was too weak to turn the threads then a screw extractor
tends to be too.

A tungsten carbide bit in a Dremel might work for you?

--------------------------------------------

Read where gunsmiths claim extractors and high carbon steel taps (like
files are made from) can be burnt out of the hole using a torch (or cutting
torch) turn the gas off after you get it hot. If it was made from high speed
steel (high alloy steel) like a drill bit then they don't burn so good, acting like
stainless steel (being another high alloy steel).

May not help the OP but there it is anyway. ;)

Another one using a punch, basically saying the same thing that the high
carbon steel stuff can be crumbled/chipped away where as the HSS stuff
is too dangged tough for the hammer-mechanic method.

Jim, all I can tell you for sure is "welcome to the club! :)". Every guy that's
ever used extractors has broken one off. :/ I just basically won't use them
anymore. I just drill the stuck bolt out bigger and bigger, doing my best to
-steer- the drill bit down the center best I can. In an ideal situation a guy can
steer a drill bit pretty dangged good.

I much prefer the cobalt enhanced high speed steel drill bits. YMMV
Theoretically, the Co-HSS is harder than the extractor you broke, but prob'ly
won't cut much of it before it's shot and needing a re-sharpening tho.

Alvin in AZ
ps- Potato (Papa ;) posted while I was typing, anyway, x2. :)

jimdawg_2024
04-11-2010, 03:14 AM
Thanks for the input guys. I bought a small propane torch to help me out a little but I have to get this damn thing out. Both front bolts that hold the intake to the heads snapped. They were too far gone to even try to work them free. I'll see what I can do.

brd
04-11-2010, 03:29 AM
I have had luck with a drilling small pilot hole and and sticking the edge of a chisel into it and introducing it to my 4 lb hammer or even an air chisel to turn them out..You will get it one way or another so dont give up.And when you do get it out your gonna feel so good.

blademasterii
04-11-2010, 11:32 AM
You can try one of two methods. Heat the broken off extractor to bright red hot then douse it with water. This will make it super brittle, then you can try to centerpuch it and shatter it. Or you can heat it to bright red and let it cool slowly, this will soften the easyout so you should be able to drill it out without killing bits. Remember when drilling metal, drill slow and use lubricant of some kind. Oil, wd40 or cutting oil if you have it. The faster you try to drill it dry you are mostly creating friction/heat which will kill the temper in your drillbit and make it too soft to cut steel.

Papa
04-11-2010, 11:58 AM
You can try one of two methods. Heat the broken off extractor to bright red hot then douse it with water. This will make it super brittle, then you can try to centerpuch it and shatter it. Or you can heat it to bright red and let it cool slowly, this will soften the easyout so you should be able to drill it out without killing bits. Remember when drilling metal, drill slow and use lubricant of some kind. Oil, wd40 or cutting oil if you have it. The faster you try to drill it dry you are mostly creating friction/heat which will kill the temper in your drillbit and make it too soft to cut steel.

Great advise on the drilling. Most dull bits are the result of drilling too fast and or no/too little lubricant.

Never tried the brittle method. I'll have to get the guys at the shop to try it the next time on of 'em breaks an easy out.

Thanks for the info.

Papa

jimdawg_2024
04-11-2010, 01:13 PM
If I heat the broken extractor to red hot then wont that be bad for the head?

blademasterii
04-11-2010, 10:51 PM
There should be so much mass that you will not damage the head. You are only trying to heat one spot. The rest of the head and the block will act as a heat sink. Just be sure to have all fuel lines and oil residue away from where you will be using the torch. A fire extinguisher nearby would also be a good thing.

Alvin in AZ
04-11-2010, 11:37 PM
To use the "quench it with water" method you need to get it like
"orange hot" (yeah, I know everyone -sez- "cherry red" ;) so it'll
need at least MAPP gas IMO but not my experience, since I haven't
actually tried it. :/

Propane works great out in the open is all I know, see? :/

The easy out is prob'ly plain high carbon steel about 1%C??
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/graphIC.jpg
Barely glowing red in the dark is 750F so you need to get it about
twice that hot. ;)

And you need to get it below 850F in less than a second and not
let the temperature climb back up both...
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/graphTTT.jpg

Get that little sucker as hot as you can and then -squirt- water
down into the hole to cool it as fast as you can and have enough
water to keep the cooling-going for the surrounding metal too.

That way the hot surrounding metal won't temper the Easy-Out.
Leaving it "dead hard" will leave it more fragile than glass.
No kidding on that, BTDT. :)

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/graphStrength.jpg
See how boiling water can toughen it?
But that only works if you cool it then let the temperature come
-back up- to like 212 or worse 350F.

Was typed out for the OP but maybe more for Papa's minions? :)

First try it with a tungsten bit of some sort then try quenching
it then just try drawing all the temper out, in that order? LOL :)

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/graph3stages.jpg

Either way get back with the method that worked for you in your
situation. Please. :)

Alvin in AZ

Alvin in AZ
04-11-2010, 11:44 PM
More I think about the "quench" method the less I like it. :/
I wouldn't do it to an iron head of mine I wanted to keep.

I'd rather use a Dremel and not heat the head in one spot.
That's just me being careful with my stuff is all and -not-
knowing what all a cast iron head can take being heated in
one spot -then- quickly cooled both. :/

Butthead in AZ

78bronco460
04-11-2010, 11:47 PM
...Butthead in AZ

LMAO :histerica

2dumbnotto
04-12-2010, 12:46 AM
I have had great luck with left hand drill bits, use lots of penetrating oil, and stop working before you get to upset to think straight.

jimdawg_2024
04-12-2010, 08:09 PM
Well, it took a mixture of a couple different techniques. I heated the broken bit and hit it with a center punch. My dad brought home a set of cryo bits from the power plant for me to have. I was able to cut into the broken piece with the bits and drill it out. Only took me about an hour to get it.

Alvin in AZ
04-13-2010, 02:34 AM
Well, it took a mixture of a couple different techniques.
I heated the broken bit and hit it with a center punch.

{good plan :}

My dad brought home a set of cryo bits from the power plant for me to
have. I was able to cut into the broken piece with the bits and drill it out.
Only took me about an hour to get it.
For it to be effective the cyro treat needs to be part of the heat treatment...
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/graphCooling.jpg
...that's a weird graph, it reads from the bottom right (I drew an arrow in
the book to remind me).

I cool my knife blades down to -5F, yeah that's right, the freezer! LOL :)

Alvin in AZ