EFI 460 swap help [Archive] - FSB Forums

: EFI 460 swap help


boggin
07-15-2010, 12:22 AM
I recently found an EFI 460 from an 87-91 F350 while i was searching for a Dana60, and i really wanna swap this into my bronco for these reasons:
A) gas mileage??
B) more power
C) better idling/running than my carb
D) cold winters
E) steep angles

So when I go about doing this swap, I plan to use all the wiring and computer from the 460 obviously, so where do you guys think would be an ideal place to mount the computer? I was thinking under the hood on the firewall probably on the passenger side near the inner fenderwell somewhere. any other opinions?
also what wires would need splicing? what should i look out for when doing the swap?

Do I have to use the flexplate and torque converter from the 460 or my 351M? theyre both autos

Any other info/input/suggestions is more than welcome
thanks

boggin
07-15-2010, 12:33 AM
does anybody remember the guy who put the efi460 in his 78-79? i remember someone but i cant remember his username.

InfoFord
07-15-2010, 01:47 AM
http://www.ncspecialties.com/autobody/dually/wiring.htm

boggin
07-15-2010, 11:16 AM
thanks, will that be the same as the 87-91 harness?
and when i pull the 460 engine from the truck its in, Can i just pull the whole harness with the motor so i dont have to unplug anything besides the ecm?

InfoFord
07-15-2010, 11:59 AM
87-96 exm is located in the same area so that spot will work for you I would recommend find a 92-96 truck and get the ecm mount from it

there will be alot of unplgging to pull the whole harness out of the truck

boggin
07-15-2010, 12:04 PM
ok, thanks again

BigWheelz
07-15-2010, 01:20 PM
So when I go about doing this swap, I plan to use all the wiring and computer from the 460 obviously, so where do you guys think would be an ideal place to mount the computer? I was thinking under the hood on the firewall probably on the passenger side near the inner fenderwell somewhere. any other opinions?

Mount the computer inside the cab, Mine is located just to the right of the gas pedal near the top of the tranny tunnel. The ecu is not water proof and needs to go in a safe place.

For wiring, get an EVTM from ford for the year of the donor truck. This will answer a lot of wiring questions for you. Also do yourself a favor and solder all splices....just say no to butt connectors.

Get a fuel tank for a 1991+ bronco, it has the in tank fuel pump ready to go and it is a bolt in....except for the fuel gauge. The 1991+ fuel gauge uses a reversed resistance value from the 78-79. To fix my issue I mounted my oem sending unit to the new style pump and wired it in.

Most importantly take your time and do things right. Saving a few hours here can cause you tons of grief later. Inspect all wires & connectors, use the correct type of fuel line, use fuses where needed, etc.


In my experience, the 460 efi gets about the same economy as a healthy, well tuned m-block. Your benefits will be in low speed power/torque, driveability, cold starts, hot starts, reliability, and IMO a better power plant more suited to a FSB. I rank the 460 swap as the single best mod I have done to my truck. It starts and runs flawlessly in any weather, just turn the key, put it in gear, and go.:thumbup

Good Luck

BigWheelz
07-15-2010, 01:30 PM
http://www.ncspecialties.com/autobody/dually/wiring.htm

As usual, very nice work!

boggin
07-15-2010, 01:44 PM
Mount the computer inside the cab, Mine is located just to the right of the gas pedal near the top of the tranny tunnel. The ecu is not water proof and needs to go in a safe place.

For wiring, get an EVTM from ford for the year of the donor truck. This will answer a lot of wiring questions for you. Also do yourself a favor and solder all splices....just say no to butt connectors.

Get a fuel tank for a 1991+ bronco, it has the in tank fuel pump ready to go and it is a bolt in....except for the fuel gauge. The 1991+ fuel gauge uses a reversed resistance value from the 78-79. To fix my issue I mounted my oem sending unit to the new style pump and wired it in.

Most importantly take your time and do things right. Saving a few hours here can cause you tons of grief later. Inspect all wires & connectors, use the correct type of fuel line, use fuses where needed, etc.


In my experience, the 460 efi gets about the same economy as a healthy, well tuned m-block. Your benefits will be in low speed power/torque, driveability, cold starts, hot starts, reliability, and IMO a better power plant more suited to a FSB. I rank the 460 swap as the single best mod I have done to my truck. It starts and runs flawlessly in any weather, just turn the key, put it in gear, and go.:thumbup

Good Luck

thanks man! ill get wiring diagrams for my bronco and the donor and compare em all and match everything up. overalll was this a very hard swap?
thanks

Spectre
07-15-2010, 02:25 PM
does anybody remember the guy who put the efi460 in his 78-79? i remember someone but i cant remember his username.

My buddy did it..

And I have a similar dilema.. I'm trying to put an ecu into a 69 body.. I think I'm going to try and mount it behind the instrument cluster in the upper left portion of the dash.

OldsRocket
07-15-2010, 10:50 PM
does anybody remember the guy who put the efi460 in his 78-79? i remember someone but i cant remember his username.

shadowcaster

BigWheelz
07-15-2010, 11:27 PM
thanks man! ill get wiring diagrams for my bronco and the donor and compare em all and match everything up. overalll was this a very hard swap?
thanks

I thought the wiring was fairly easy and straightforward. The hardest part IMO is getting the EFI support equipment into place. The fuel system has to be plumbed and wired, inertia switch installed, oxygen sensor installed, etc.

InfoFord
07-16-2010, 12:13 AM
I thought the wiring was fairly easy and straightforward. The hardest part IMO is getting the EFI support equipment into place. The fuel system has to be plumbed and wired, inertia switch installed, oxygen sensor installed, etc.

agreed it was straight forward conversion my dually project even got the charging circuit and trailer harness stuff from the 94 donor since I used the entire harness from the frame to go to the both tanks and lighting all working great on the vacation thus far

origin
07-16-2010, 09:36 PM
http://nelson.macd.ca/bronco.htm

boggin
07-16-2010, 10:31 PM
http://nelson.macd.ca/bronco.htm

your the guy i was looking for! thanks man

Aurorabusa
07-17-2010, 08:58 AM
Sounds like fun. i have never saw a 460 get good fuel mileage

Fireguy50
07-18-2010, 03:22 AM
We have the grommet for the firewall
http://rjminjectiontech.com/products/grommet-oval

BigWheelz
07-18-2010, 03:49 PM
We have the grommet for the firewall
http://rjminjectiontech.com/?p=15

And a lot of other very useful items to help with an EFI swap. As always, RJM is a great source.:thumbup

78'460
07-18-2010, 04:05 PM
I recently found an EFI 460 from an 87-91 F350 while i was searching for a Dana60, and i really wanna swap this into my bronco for these reasons:
A) gas mileage??
B) more power
C) better idling/running than my carb
D) cold winters
E) steep angles

So when I go about doing this swap, I plan to use all the wiring and computer from the 460 obviously, so where do you guys think would be an ideal place to mount the computer? I was thinking under the hood on the firewall probably on the passenger side near the inner fenderwell somewhere. any other opinions?
also what wires would need splicing? what should i look out for when doing the swap?

Do I have to use the flexplate and torque converter from the 460 or my 351M? theyre both autos

Any other info/input/suggestions is more than welcome
thanks

Sounds like fun. i have never saw a 460 get good fuel mileage

Honestly, Even my carb'd 460, It gets better mileage then my worn out 351m ever got, Plus a crap load more power. Its not a 4 cylinder or even a 6 cylinder so dont expect that kinda mileage and it will be fine.

bigblock78bronco
07-18-2010, 08:18 PM
I did this exact swap in my truck at love it. Not sure on the exact rang of years but the gas tank in my 89 f350 donor trunk bolt right in place of my bronco tank and the sending unit/pump monuts into the tank exactly the same. So you could either swap an entire tank, or just buy a pump for an 89 and drop it into the bronco tank.
As for mounting the ecu, I actually mounted mine right to the drvier side inner fender. Then using an old tackle box, I built a plastic box and put it over the the ecu. Then I used a lot of RTV and sealed the whole box making it complete waterproof. I know it sounds like a cheesy way to do it, but it actually came out very nice and works flawlessly. If you would like I can try and get some pictures.

bigblock78bronco
07-18-2010, 08:20 PM
oh yeah, i cant remember for sure but im pretty sure 460's are balanced differently that 351/400's so use the flexplate off the 460. Either torque converter shoud work.

Brian in MI
07-18-2010, 11:10 PM
deffinatly get the flexplate from the donor 460.
1978 and older areinternal balance.
1979 and newer are external balance.

460 and 351M 400 have the same pilot size on the crank for the torqe converter.

graffoffroad1
08-12-2010, 10:26 AM
swapping a 460 efi out of a 93 E350 automatic, I want to use my c6 full manual valve body. do I need to get a diffrent computer than the van had?

graffoffroad1
08-12-2010, 04:02 PM
got the answer from a local trans shop.. it will work fine but show a code which I dont care about since it is strictly off road and no check engine light...

InfoFord
08-12-2010, 06:12 PM
did your van have the E4OD?

I have a 460 ecm for C6 thus no tranny codes I would be willing to swap with ya

graffoffroad1
08-13-2010, 09:49 AM
yes it did as far as I can tell. it is not the c6 anyway. to many wires

Swp_king
08-18-2010, 10:16 PM
I'm looking for a 460 for my 78 bronco

BigWheelz
08-19-2010, 10:54 PM
I'm looking for a 460 for my 78 bronco

Best swap for EFI: Find a 1988+ E-350 van. These have the right manifolds, oil pan, and a saginaw PS pump.

InfoFord
08-20-2010, 03:30 AM
Best swap for EFI: Find a 1988+ E-350 van. These have the right manifolds, oil pan, and a saginaw PS pump.

I would not use van if I had a choice the 460 out of the Fseries is alot better

it has the correct rear sump pan with correct dip stick (van pan is a center sump with long dipstick) the valve cover with oil fill will have the cap on it instead of the long tube the exhaust manifolds is also correct even the 83-96 engine mounts from the Fseries will work in the swap if you have the correct frame perches the only thing better on the van is the sag pump setup

the van will work but Fseries far better for the swap

BigWheelz
08-21-2010, 04:00 PM
I would not use van if I had a choice the 460 out of the Fseries is alot better

it has the correct rear sump pan with correct dip stick (van pan is a center sump with long dipstick) the valve cover with oil fill will have the cap on it instead of the long tube the exhaust manifolds is also correct even the 83-96 engine mounts from the Fseries will work in the swap if you have the correct frame perches the only thing better on the van is the sag pump setup

the van will work but Fseries far better for the swap


The van oil pan works and clears everything just fine, I do not see any drawback to using it. It is not so much a center sump, but the sump is a few inches forward of the trans. I find this feature handy as you get a little extra room for an exhaust pipe crossover. this helps to keep the exhaust system out of the way of the front drive shaft.

The van exhaust manifolds are the same as the F-series. The engine mounts are similar to those used with a SB chevy, with a through bolt design. Some might find these easier to fab than the twin stud F-series mount....

You are right about the "mile long" dipstick and oil filler tube. I had forgotten about those ugly van items.:doh0715: Another thing to consider is the van EGR tube routes the egr line behind the head and VERY close to the fire wall. The f-series setup is better....if you should choose to run egr.

Typically you can pick up a van for a LOT less $$$ than an F-series. This is the main driver behind using a van.

boggin
06-09-2011, 10:56 PM
never got anywhere on this, still been pickin around with the ol 351m. but now im thinking of it again, and wondering about getting the engine and throwing on a holley manifold and carb and running it as that. just need to get ahold of the owner of the truck

80dad
06-10-2011, 04:56 PM
efi is the way to go. just finished my swap all i need to finish is the exhaust yet. it is great to reach in and crank it up no hitting the gas etc.the wiring is no real deal just get the ford electrical vacum troubleshooting manual and take your time.

BigWheelz
06-10-2011, 05:49 PM
never got anywhere on this, still been pickin around with the ol 351m. but now im thinking of it again, and wondering about getting the engine and throwing on a holley manifold and carb and running it as that. just need to get ahold of the owner of the truck


The holley intake does not fit. 460 EFI engines have a different port configuration on both intake and exhaust. You cannot swap efi and non efi, at least not without some serious custom work.

To run a carb you will need to do one of three things:

1) Run carb heads / intake / exhaust.

2) Run the Price motorsports makes a carb adapter for the 460 efi intake / heads. http://www.pricemotorsport.com/

3) Rework the Holley intake to fit efi heads (lots of welding & grinding)

shadowcaster
06-13-2011, 09:10 PM
I m ounted my ecm in the glove box to keep it dry. Mine is mostly a trail rig, so it's put together as such.

The motor is an '89, but I used the harness/ ecm from an '88 c-6 truck. Works great.

I already had a return line because of my former Projection.....

I ran the low/ high pressure pumps cuz I was too cheap to buy the single Walbro pump......:rofl:

Notched passenger frame rail about 1/4" for manifold, drivers fit fine. Put my O2 sensor in pass. side downpipe.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/873901/fullsize/imag0034.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/873902/fullsize/imag0035.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/873903/fullsize/imag0036.jpg

Again, this was built for function & reliability, not asthetics........

InfoFord
06-13-2011, 11:22 PM
Notched passenger frame rail about 1/4" for manifold, drivers fit fine. Put my O2 sensor in pass. side downpipe.

not sure why you had to do this notching of the frame is a uneeded butcher job
the EFI manifolds clear the frame just fine if the engine is mounted correctly

boggin
06-14-2011, 02:51 PM
not sure if im still gonna do this swap. started tearing down the 351m this morning.

it hit me that the only thing wrong with this engine is the exhaust manifold studs are twisted off. i had her going with no gaskets for thee exhaust and just 2 bolts holding them in on each side (just wanted to see if the engine actually ran since i put it back in the truck) and as you would imagine, she started shooting flames out there lol so i figured taking off the heads and drilling out the studs could be easier than swapping on a new engine

BigWheelz
06-14-2011, 04:35 PM
not sure if im still gonna do this swap. started tearing down the 351m this morning.

it hit me that the only thing wrong with this engine is the exhaust manifold studs are twisted off. i had her going with no gaskets for thee exhaust and just 2 bolts holding them in on each side (just wanted to see if the engine actually ran since i put it back in the truck) and as you would imagine, she started shooting flames out there lol so i figured taking off the heads and drilling out the studs could be easier than swapping on a new engine

These engines never came with exhaust manifold gaskets. Installing gaskets will make the manifolds warp.

Your best bet is to remove the broke off bolts, replace ALL the bolts, and reassemble using a very thin bead of high temp silicone between the headand manifold.

boggin
06-14-2011, 04:40 PM
These engines never came with exhaust manifold gaskets. Installing gaskets will make the manifolds warp.

Your best bet is to remove the broke off bolts, replace ALL the bolts, and reassemble using a very thin bead of high temp silicone between the headand manifold.

really? that sounds odd. i thought sure a gasket came off mine, and i see gaskets for manifolds on the web everywhere too

colobronco
06-14-2011, 07:47 PM
He's right. Metal to metal. There's usually manifolds for sale on eBay.

InfoFord
06-15-2011, 02:59 PM
you can get gaskets for the exhaust but it is a waste to install em as they don't last and causes other issues as stated above

shadowcaster
06-18-2011, 09:40 PM
not sure why you had to do this notching of the frame is a uneeded butcher job
the EFI manifolds clear the frame just fine if the engine is mounted correctly

L&L mounts, only go in one way.

Why do you feel the need to call it a "butcher" job?? Who the hell made you the king of perfection? Keep your shitty comments to yourself. As I said, it was built for function, not fashion.......

boggin
06-18-2011, 09:59 PM
L&L mounts, only go in one way.

Why do you feel the need to call it a "butcher" job?? Who the hell made you the king of perfection? Keep your shitty comments to yourself. As I said, it was built for function, not fashion.......

:histerica:thumbup

smittybronco
07-18-2011, 10:11 PM
I done this swap with a 89 f350 efi460... mounted the computer thru the fire wall beside the pedals... but im having a problem with mine after I drive on the interstate for a while it acts like its starving for fuel... I have checked the fuel pressure and that all checks good... any thoughts?

BigWheelz
07-18-2011, 10:31 PM
I done this swap with a 89 f350 efi460... mounted the computer thru the fire wall beside the pedals... but im having a problem with mine after I drive on the interstate for a while it acts like its starving for fuel... I have checked the fuel pressure and that all checks good... any thoughts?

Could be a million things. I suggest you first get a new thread that belongs to you. Then put details on how exactly the engine is starving in the new thread. Include things like base timing, codes...if any, etc.

InfoFord
07-19-2011, 12:34 AM
L&L mounts, only go in one way.

Why do you feel the need to call it a "butcher" job?? Who the hell made you the king of perfection? Keep your shitty comments to yourself. As I said, it was built for function, not fashion.......


crap work means crap quality thus you only built a pile of crap :goodfinge

function or fashion doesn't matter do the job right to have a safe and dependable rig :smilie_slap

dagamore
07-19-2011, 08:14 AM
I done this swap with a 89 f350 efi460... mounted the computer thru the fire wall beside the pedals... but im having a problem with mine after I drive on the interstate for a while it acts like its starving for fuel... I have checked the fuel pressure and that all checks good... any thoughts?

are you checking the fuel pressure when it feels like its starving out?

smittybronco
07-27-2011, 07:59 PM
Yea.. I have the right fuel pressure with or with a load... even if it feels like its sputtering...

dagamore
07-28-2011, 09:39 AM
normaly the only thing that will make a motor run like crap is not enough of the big three, fuel, spark, air.

If you got enough fuel psi, and its not running of air(are you maxing out the air flow sensor(MAF/MAS/SD?), then its spark.

What is the base timing?
do you have any leaks? un-meeter air will cause issues(spent a bad morning chasing this in my 09 Mustang GT(damn cheap hose clamps))
have you pulled the plugs and made sure they are good, what color are they. (if you dont know how to read them(or any others that dont) here is the chart i use and love(works great when playing with N2O!) http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/faq/faqread2.asp ))

Me and Buddy spent like 3 days fighting with my 5.0 (88 t-top mustang) where it would not run quite right above 2K rpms, turned out the distributor was 2 teeth off or so, and the springs were not allowing it to advance/retard with rpm like ti should.

boggin
08-23-2011, 04:39 PM
What a coincidence, my buddy was just telling me about a piece of land he had give to him, and I said its not the piece with the old f350 parked on it is it? he said yup that truck is mine now, and he wants to get rid of it. so im thinking now ill get an awesome deal, might let me take it just for the sake of getting it out of his way. will keep you all updated

black & blue 78/9
08-27-2011, 03:53 AM
What would be the best years of a 460EFI to look for to use with the C6? I believe the MAF would be better than MAP correct?

black & blue 78/9
08-27-2011, 03:57 AM
What would be the best years to look for a 460EFI to use with a C6?
A MAF would be better than a MAP correct? or no?

black & blue 78/9
08-27-2011, 04:04 AM
I already a a carbed 460. Could I just change the heads and intake and related sensors, harness and ECM? OR do I also need a different block?
I will also be doing a light rebuild of the 1975 block...30 over, little better cam. The block may have already been bored before me.

BigWheelz
08-27-2011, 09:18 AM
Good luck finding a MAF 460....You are going to need it. Speed density ain't so bad, I rather like how stupid simple mine is.

Yes you can change the top end. To do the swap look for the top end from a 1993+ 460. This will have the better F3TE heads, F2TE intake, etc. Your block will be OK, IIRC pre 1979 blocks are actually more desireable. The hangup is you are stuck using the efi exhaust manifolds....however I understand L&L now makes a 460 efi swap header for the 78-79.

Stock EFI pistons are cheapo cast with a metric ringsget. I would advise a good set of aftermarket hyperuetectics with standard rings and 9:1 compression ratio. Also Get the comp cams EFI grind for the 460, it runs really well in these. Good Luck

black & blue 78/9
08-27-2011, 06:37 PM
Did the 93+ ever come with the C6 or are the all tied into the trans?? What about converting a MAP into a MAF? What makes it so hard to find a MAF 460? Would the 302/351 MAF convert to work with the 460? What is wrong with using the EFI manifold? What would be a good thread on here or website to read to do what I want to do? Thank you, Chris

Brian in MI
08-28-2011, 12:00 AM
Did the 93+ ever come with the C6 or are the all tied into the trans?? What about converting a MAP into a MAF? What makes it so hard to find a MAF 460? Would the 302/351 MAF convert to work with the 460? What is wrong with using the EFI manifold? What would be a good thread on here or website to read to do what I want to do? Thank you, Chris

My EFI 460 was in a 1994 F250 4x4 with a C-6.

Have to use EFI manifold with EFI heads. EFI and Carb are not interchangeable.

You can use 5.0 MAF EFI on a 460, but must reprogram computer for different firing order, bigger displacement, greater injector flow rate, bigger MAF, etc....

black & blue 78/9
08-28-2011, 05:18 PM
Thank you Brian. Would the 93,94 be MAF,MAP,SD.

Brian in MI
08-28-2011, 06:21 PM
Thank you Brian. Would the 93,94 be MAF,MAP,SD.

All 460's were map or Speed Density. The only MAF were sold in California and Mass. in 1996 only. Not sure about the 1997 Super Dutys (still old body style)

BigWheelz
08-28-2011, 10:01 PM
All 460's were map or Speed Density. The only MAF were sold in California and Mass. in 1996 only. Not sure about the 1997 Super Dutys (still old body style)

I may be mistaken on this, but I am pretty sure all 460 MAF were also OBD-II. The OBD-II makes it a less desirable swap IMO.

Speed density works great....try it:goodfinge

Brian in MI
08-29-2011, 08:26 PM
I may be mistaken on this, but I am pretty sure all 460 MAF were also OBD-II. The OBD-II makes it a less desirable swap IMO.

Speed density works great....try it:goodfinge

All vehicles were OBDII in 1996, regardless of engine or EFI type.
Speed Density is great if it is a stock engine with stock internals.

BigWheelz
08-29-2011, 11:53 PM
All vehicles were OBDII in 1996, regardless of engine or EFI type.
Speed Density is great if it is a stock engine with stock internals.

Thanks, did not know if OBD-II rollout in 1996 included vehicles over 8500 GVWR.

Speed density works great with mild mods too. I was able to achieve a glass smooth idle, great torque, and respectable top end power with the following:

EEC functions correctly (Motorcraft parts only, no codes)
9:1 CR Speed Pro Hyperuetectic Pistons with std rings (no metric!)
Comp EFI cam installed straight up.
Ported F3TE Heads
Ported F2TE Lower Intake
BBK throttle body
Crappy Hedman Headers (Headers will only seal with ultra copper pookie!)

The EEC part is SO CRITICAL! If the system does not run right then you will have problems.

dagamore
08-30-2011, 05:59 AM
why does the ODBII make it a bad/less desirable swap, i would think that having a working ODBII port would be a good thing, you know ger more info about the motor quickly with either a code reader, or do some cool logging with a device like the innovative OT-2(i think thats what its called, cool iphone device for logging up to 16 pids at once.)

BigWheelz
08-30-2011, 12:59 PM
why does the ODBII make it a bad/less desirable swap, i would think that having a working ODBII port would be a good thing, you know ger more info about the motor quickly with either a code reader, or do some cool logging with a device like the innovative OT-2(i think thats what its called, cool iphone device for logging up to 16 pids at once.)

That would be a plus. The downsides are:

1. Very rare. 460 MAF unique parts could be hard to locate (MAF, PCM, etc).
2. 3 Oxygen sensors. You have to run a catalyst and a single exhaust. MIL Eliminator may work here?
3. Thermactor system is required, PCM looks for thermactor air indirectly through Oxygen sensors. MIL Eliminator may work here too.
4. Early OBD-II Check with the data logger mfg....It may not be compatible.
5. Need speed ref signal from rear diff exciter ring (8.8 or sterling).
6. PCM most likely integrates with engine, trans, ABS, cruise, etc. Lots of things a 78-79 does not have.

dagamore
08-31-2011, 05:15 AM
ahh ok. that clears it up some.