http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=5834001&content_dir=ua_congressorg

i just saw this, and am curious as to what your thoughts are on this.

Well finishing college would be nice. Not to say I don't want to serve my country, but it seems to me that George W. Bush has no more intelligence than a hampster, same goes for his administration. I'm no John Kerry supporter either...but where the **** to do we find these guys? Concerning the draft...Gotta do what we gotta do though.

I probably wouldn't mind since everyone would have to do it. My only concern is that there would be a decrease in the quality of our armed forces if you have all these pot-smoking, slacker, hippie-wannabe, high school seniors entering boot camp and not wanting to be there.

On the other side it would also be nice to be able to finish up college before going to serve. I always heard that its a harder to go back once you've left.

In conclusion, God Bless our Troops and God Bless the USA!!! :usa

I wouldn't hold my breath on this one. I am currently in the military and they are not short of people. There has been no stop losses initiated at least not in the Air Force. A stop loss is were people in critically manned positions are not allowed to get out of the military until the military deems that would not negatively impact the fighting capabilities of the US. This has happened in contigencies like the Desert Storm, Kosovo and Sept 11th. The military is stretched thin right now, but they haven't been authorized to recruit more people yet. I would imagine that Congress would increase the authorized numbers in the military before they start a draft. After reading the bill itself and with the information above, I do not think this is a draft as we know it. This is about a required national service for all 18 year olds male and female for two years. There are some ways to postpone it in the current proposal. Many European countries already do this. Most have a two year commitment to their Armed Forces. There are many pros and cons to this kind of legislation. Too many to get into here.

i agree, I know a recruiter and I was talking to him and he said he can only recruit prior service into a few areas, recruiters, EOD, and Spec Ops

You guys blaming the Bush administration and using Congress.org (blatant Democrap site) to justify remarks is quite laughable. If you would do some research you would know the House bill is sponsored by Charles Rangel -NY and Ernest Hollings-SC who amazingly are DEMOCRAPS.
Direct quote from the site:

Pending Draft Legislation Targeted for Spring 2005
The Draft will Start in June 2005
There is pending legislation in the House and Senate (twin bills: S 89 and HR 163) which will time the program's initiation so the draft can begin at early as Spring 2005 -- just after the 2004 presidential election. The administration is quietly trying to get these bills passed now, while the public's attention is on the elections, so our action on this is needed immediately.


Now why would the Bush administration try to "quietly get theses bills passed" when sponsored by 2 Democraps who have been HIGHLY critical of the war? You see if the Dems can get the public to believe the Reps are wanting to bring the draft back the public support for the war drops thus helping Kerry in November.

Why take things at face value when a little research would have taken the veil off the Congress.org site. I mean if it really was a goverment site it would say .gov. DUH

So right Franklin:
Liberal Democrats, not "neo-cons" trying to bring back "draft"
Republicans introduce bill to repeal Selective Service System, permanently end draft
Many of the action items here seem to revolve around the rumored return of "the draft", apparently at the behest of a secret Bush administration effort, or the "warhawks", as another soapbox poster put it.

In truth, the pair of Universal National Service Act bills, S.89 and H.R.163, have been introduced and sponsored by liberal Democrats. S.89 is sponsored by Sen. Fritz Hollings (D-SC), while the companion H.R.163 was introduced by Congressional Black Caucus cofounder and Harlem representative Charlie Rangel (D-NY), along with 14 other Democrats that read like a Who's Who of the Left in Congress:

D Rep Abercrombie, Neil - 1/7/2003 [HI-1]
D Rep Brown, Corrine - 1/28/2003 [FL-3]
D Rep Christensen, Donna M. - 5/19/2004 [VI]
D Rep Clay, Wm. Lacy - 1/28/2003 [MO-1]
D Rep Conyers, John, Jr. - 1/7/2003 [MI-14]
D Rep Cummings, Elijah E. - 1/28/2003 [MD-7]
D Rep Hastings, Alcee L. - 1/28/2003 [FL-23]
D Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila - 1/28/2003 [TX-18]
D Rep Lewis, John - 1/7/2003 [GA-5]
D Rep McDermott, Jim - 1/7/2003 [WA-7]
D Rep Moran, James P. - 1/28/2003 [VA-8]
D Rep Norton, Eleanor Holmes - 1/28/2003 [DC]
D Rep Stark, Fortney Pete - 1/7/2003 [CA-13]
D Rep Velazquez, Nydia M. - 1/28/2003 [NY-12]

The details of these bills are here:

H.R.163 | Text | Cosponsors

S.89 | Text

By contrast, Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) has introduced a bill, H.R.487, to repeal the Military Selective Service Act, permanently ending the draft. Cosponsors include two other Republicans and five Democrats.

Details:

H.R.487 | Text | Cosponsors

D Rep Boucher, Rick - 2/12/2003 [VA-9]
D Rep DeFazio, Peter A. - 1/29/2003 [OR-4]
R Rep Foley, Mark - 3/6/2003 [FL-16]
D Rep Frank, Barney - 1/29/2003 [MA-4]
D Rep Nadler, Jerrold - 2/7/2003 [NY-8]
D Rep Owens, Major R. - 2/11/2003 [NY-11]
R Rep Rohrabacher, Dana - 6/23/2003 [CA-46]

I'm really surprised reading through all of the other soapbox posts and letters that, from the tone of the messages, everyone seems to assume it's Bush or the "neo-cons" behind some kind of effort to reinstate "the draft", when in reality it's all liberal Democrats that have introduced and sponsored the bills, while almost all Republicans OPPOSE forced service, whether it be civil or military.

This is indeed an important issue, but when writing your representatives in Congress and/or the President, keep in mind who is actually supporting these bills. Hint: it's not Bush and the "warhawks"...

NICELY SAID

:clap :clap :clap

You guys blaming the Bush administration and using Congress.org (blatant Democrap site) to justify remarks is quite laughable. If you would do some research you would know the House bill is sponsored by Charles Rangel -NY and Ernest Hollings-SC who amazingly are DEMOCRAPS.
Direct quote from the site:

Pending Draft Legislation Targeted for Spring 2005
The Draft will Start in June 2005
There is pending legislation in the House and Senate (twin bills: S 89 and HR 163) which will time the program's initiation so the draft can begin at early as Spring 2005 -- just after the 2004 presidential election. The administration is quietly trying to get these bills passed now, while the public's attention is on the elections, so our action on this is needed immediately.


Now why would the Bush administration try to "quietly get theses bills passed" when sponsored by 2 Democraps who have been HIGHLY critical of the war? You see if the Dems can get the public to believe the Reps are wanting to bring the draft back the public support for the war drops thus helping Kerry in November.

Why take things at face value when a little research would have taken the veil off the Congress.org site. I mean if it really was a goverment site it would say .gov. DUH
Finally an Intelligent response to a clearly B/S website

Finally an Intelligent response to a clearly B/S website

It's funny that the web site is B/S because the information everyone is quoting is linked to that website. If everyone reads the bill it's not a draft. The authors of those posts just want people to think that it is. This is the way they influence people through emotion. The bill with all of it's sponsors can also be found at http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:H.R.163:

I am 99% sure that this bill will die, just like other ones similar to it in the past have. It is a shame that politicians in general can't state things without twisting it. I hate these political ploys.

I see no need for a draft anytime in the near future. People are signing up for the military left and right.

....what a joke.

I wouldn't hold my breath on this one. I am currently in the military and they are not short of people. There has been no stop losses initiated at least not in the Air Force. A stop loss is were people in critically manned positions are not allowed to get out of the military until the military deems that would not negatively impact the fighting capabilities of the US. This has happened in contigencies like the Desert Storm, Kosovo and Sept 11th. The military is stretched thin right now, but they haven't been authorized to recruit more people yet.
The Airforce is letting people get out early cuz they cant afford to pay them all. My job no longer has a reenlistment bonus and most dont anymore as well. Ya stop loss completely ended about 1.5 years after Sept 11.

The Airforce is letting people get out early cuz they cant afford to pay them all. My job no longer has a reenlistment bonus and most dont anymore as well. Ya stop loss completely ended about 1.5 years after Sept 11.

It's also possible now to go Reserve after ROTC dependent on your job and some other factors.

when there was a draft back in the 60's my dad and a bunch of his buddies volunteered for and were selected to sit on the local draft board...i guess you can draw your own conclusions as to why the did so. however, fortunately it never came to a draft for my generation, but i would gladly would have served if called upon to do so.

You guys blaming the Bush administration and using Congress.org (blatant Democrap site) to justify remarks is quite laughable.



:histerica

My oldest step-daughter is in the Air Force and it sure made her grow up and become a solid adult. It sure wouldn't hurt the kids of today to go through the draft. We will all pray that it doesn't come to them having to go to war.
I do believe that going through military training (bootcamp) may straighten up a lot of our troubled youth and make them look at things with a higher respect. Just my .02 worth. Support our military forces! :rockon

You guys blaming the Bush administration and using Congress.org (blatant Democrap site) to justify remarks is quite laughable...
Why take things at face value when a little research would have taken the veil off the Congress.org site. I mean if it really was a goverment site it would say .gov. DUH

Gee Franklin, now where are you getting your information from? They are equally laughable. Blatant Democratic site? I actually did do a little research and I can't find anything to support your conclusion regarding that site. In fact, the only thing I could find was that Congress.org is sponsored by a private company called Capitol Advantage. They market e commerce and other tools designed to connect the public to their elected officials, and not just Democrats. Their client list transcends political boundaries. They are a service provider that can be used by any organization, and the Democratic National Party is not one of them!

They also have a consulting firm called e-advocates. One of their principals, Dan Bradfield, "founded and led the Grassroots for Practice for Ketchum Public Relations Worldwide, where he counseled and managed a diverse roster of public affairs and issue managment clients including Delta Airlines, Federal Express, Quaker Oats, ITT Industries, Charles Schwab, Reliant Energy and the Government of Puerto Rico." Hardly a bastion of Democratic party members, eh Franklin?

In short, I think that while the bill you are referring to may in fact be sponsored by Democrats, it is very irresponsible to go spouting conclusions like you did without listing a shred of evidence to back it up, other than your own self serving statement that it is a blatant Democratic site. If you have something to hang your hat on, please list it here for all to see.

While I do not beleive in the draft nor do I support it, I do believe that high school students should be required to finish boot camp before graduating. There last semester should be boot camp. It is amazing the positive effects I have seen on high school students during there stay and boot camp. I have also seen many before they left and the change when they come back is remarkable.

My oldest step-daughter is in the Air Force and it sure made her grow up and become a solid adult. It sure wouldn't hurt the kids of today to go through the draft. We will all pray that it doesn't come to them having to go to war.
I do believe that going through military training (bootcamp) may straighten up a lot of our troubled youth and make them look at things with a higher respect. Just my .02 worth. Support our military forces! :rockon


Totally agree. It would probably readjust some attitudes and make people appreciate what they have in this country.

My job no longer has a reenlistment bonus and most dont anymore as well.

No one is getting them in our career field either. Gone are the good old days.

My oldest step-daughter is in the Air Force and it sure made her grow up and become a solid adult. It sure wouldn't hurt the kids of today to go through the draft. We will all pray that it doesn't come to them having to go to war.
I do believe that going through military training (bootcamp) may straighten up a lot of our troubled youth and make them look at things with a higher respect. Just my .02 worth. Support our military forces! :rockon
that's what happened to my cousin. he was a major pot head/screw up and joined the marines. he's completely different now. he also adresses everyone as ma'am or sir. it really set him strait.

:rolleyes:

that's what happened to my cousin. he was a major pot head/screw up and joined the marines. he's completely different now. he also adresses everyone as ma'am or sir. it really set him strait.

My cousin was a ****-up in highschool and when he joined the marines he flew through the ranks and came out an even bigger ****-up. The military doesn't work for everybody. As for everybody having to go through bootcamp the last semester of school, sounds like a pretty shitty idea to me. What about those of us who are smaller, and weaker that would have a horrible time in bootcamp, even though they are responsible and get good grades? Why make everybody go to bootcamp because there are a few ****-ups out there? As for this article, if they had a draft because of this bullshit.... I mean war... in the Middle East that would be rediculous. We should get out of there if we are losing too many people rather than send more. Canada's borders are going to be closed? Good thing I live closer to Mexico!

And heres a response for the "you coward you're afraid to fight for your country" posts to come:
I'm not afraid of fighting for my country, if China was on it's way with all it's might you would hear no protests from me if there was a draft. If was around back in the WWII era you would have certainly heard no compaints from me. I'm not afraid to fight for my country, I'm not afraid to fight, I just simply refuse to fight for personal interests. Last time I checked Halliburton isn't the country I live in.

Hey bAdKARma88, I never said bootcamp would necessarily be good for everyone, but just a comment about those that are small and weak. My step-daughter is 4'8" and 91 pounds. She just squeezed in at the minimum qualifications. It was hard for her but she sucked it up and pulled through with a bigger/stronger body and attitude.

Again, there is never a "one size fits all" that really does fit all.

It sure wouldn't hurt the kids of today to go through the draft. We will all pray that it doesn't come to them having to go to war.
I do believe that going through military training (bootcamp) may straighten up a lot of our troubled youth and make them look at things with a higher respect.
that's what happened to my cousin. he was a major pot head/screw up and joined the marines. he's completely different now. he also adresses everyone as ma'am or sir. it really set him strait.
well i was always taught that a child is only as good as the parent that raises them. why should we make a mandatory draft because there are a few ****ed up kids who have "zero" respect because their parents were afraid to say no to them? i personally like having the freedom to be the person i want to be, work the job i want to work, live where i want to live, enjoy the hobbies i enjoy, believe what i want to believe, and not be a slave to the goverment. thats the whole idea behind this country:
FREEDOM!
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/images/braverheartfreedom.jpeg

No one is getting them in our career field either. Gone are the good old days.
cant wait to have my retainment breifing with the commander ill say im not staying in cuz the job sucks and we dont get a bonus! I might cross train..

cant wait to have my retainment breifing with the commander ill say im not staying in cuz the job sucks and we dont get a bonus! I might cross train..
Cross train if you can the money isn't that bad. Trust me I've been through worse. If you do get out just do it with your eyes wide open. Good luck brother!



well i was always taught that a child is only as good as the parent that raises them. why should we make a mandatory draft because there are a few ****ed up kids who have "zero" respect because their parents were afraid to say no to them? i personally like having the freedom to be the person i want to be, work the job i want to work, live where i want to live, enjoy the hobbies i enjoy, believe what i want to believe, and not be a slave to the goverment. thats the whole idea behind this country:
I know I'll probably get a lot of crap for this, but I will stick to it. I really don't think anybody can truely know what freedom is until they lose it. In basic you really lose it. You are treated better then most people in these opressed countries(like you get fed and you know your family is safe), but you are still treated like shit. You have no choice in what you do and don't have any voice. Have no access to any news unless they give it to you. Don't get me wrong I haven't gone through what half of the people in Iraq or other countries(ie Kosovo) have gone through by going through basic. Just imagine being in your state say Floridia and a powerful group telling you that you have to leave your family home, that might have been in your family for say 50 years, on a moments notice at gunpoint. You have an infant that you have to carry to the Georgia state line to be safe, but there are no stores to buy food or doctors available to take care of your child. You have to do this on foot. Now do you appreciate the freedom that you have? Regardless of the politics, that is why we are better. That is why servicemen and women serve. This is why I like to believe we are in Iraq.

Thanks to the country we have we don't have to worry about this. 9-11 happens and most Americans experience terrisom for the first time. It's horrific, but this is not the first time and it won't be the last. The veterans of WWII did their job and didn't ask anything for it. What makes us so different or special.

Sorry to vent but terrisom and lack of freedom isn't new to me and other people. If we don't take a stand now who knows what is in store for us. I say this because I have three young boys and I want the same life for them that I had. The only way to ensure that is to serve. I apologize if I upset anyone with this post, but I don't apologize for how I feel.

:rockon :rockon

What about those of us who are smaller, and weaker that would have a horrible time in bootcamp, even though they are responsible and get good grades?

Size and strength have nothing to do with it. You are taught to grow mentally and physically. if you meat the DODMERB requirements, then you can pass just fine.


As for this article, if they had a draft because of this bullshit.... I mean war... in the Middle East that would be rediculous. We should get out of there if we are losing too many people rather than send more. Canada's borders are going to be closed? Good thing I live closer to Mexico!

I would think that starting the draft would be out of control. However, in all due respect, I believe that if you are called upon to serve your country, then you have an OBLIGATION to serve. Bottom line.


And heres a response for the "you coward you're afraid to fight for your country" posts to come:
I'm not afraid of fighting for my country, if China was on it's way with all it's might you would hear no protests from me if there was a draft. If was around back in the WWII era you would have certainly heard no compaints from me. I'm not afraid to fight for my country, I'm not afraid to fight, I just simply refuse to fight for personal interests. Last time I checked Halliburton isn't the country I live in.

And that is why it is not required for you to be a member of the armed forces. It is the choice that you have made and it is a respectable choice. But if someone is drafted and they choose to flee....then they are a coward and better never return to the land they ran from. IMHO


96Bronc: Well said

Size in my flight in basic we had a guy named tennis. Was 4'2" or something and 95 pounds. He made it, almost didnt but it wasnt physical it was the mind. He almost just didnt have the compentecy for lack of better words.

96bronc you said it good about being in Basic. I grew up in San Antonio. 5th through just before my 11th grade year. All my friends, and people I consider family are there. I spent countless nights on dorm guard staring out the window at the city I consider home not having any contact with them, not being able to go to the places I am used to going to. That was the one true thing that hurt me. I was home yet so far away.


No the military isnt for everybody. To be honest there are a lot of guys I know that I wouldnt want in the military. Yeah a good chunk would probably get straitend out. Some wont. I remember in basic and even tech school there were people doing whatever they could to get out. Why I dont know but they couldnt hack it. didnt like the life, not being able to do whatever the hell they wanted. I had a guy in basic walk up to my MTI and tell him that the he(airman) was gay. Had a suicide watch on one guy. just plain fawked up. In tech school guys in my AFSC would go all through school complaining how much it sucks. Within a couple weeks of graduating and becoming permant party they found some way to get out. Via failing to much, get onto some wacko list, etc. While others enjoyed it, loved being there. and yeah we had our probs on different things but we always remember we are in training, this isnt how it will be when we are done. after 6 months at shepperd and 1 1/2 months at Little Rock it was over and everything was great.



And I didnt even get an enlistment bonus to start with.

Size in my flight in basic we had a guy named tennis. Was 4'2" or something and 95 pounds. He made it, almost didnt but it wasnt physical it was the mind. He almost just didnt have the compentecy for lack of better words.

.

We had a girl that size in my flight. She made it out being ranked 3rd in the flight. She was also a prior-E TSgt going through Field Training.

In short, I think that while the bill you are referring to may in fact be sponsored by Democrats, it is very irresponsible to go spouting conclusions like you did without listing a shred of evidence to back it up, other than your own self serving statement that it is a blatant Democratic site. If you have something to hang your hat on, please list it here for all to see.

No the bills are definitely sponsored By Rangell and Hollings in their respective positions. Guess you didnt reserch THAT part enough.

The article had no author given, no editor, nothing. Therefore I concluded that an article, without proper notification to all, can only be supported by the site it is on. Correct? After further researching the site IS informational. But why would there not be info on author that one could research to gain insight to possible motives for its publication? Self serving statement. Quite possible yet I must ask this question. How self serving was reading the article, finding the CORRECT author of the bills and reflecting on THEIR possible motives?

That was simply educating and opposing the main point in the article which was the Bush administration "quietly" trying to get the bills passed. Now what is your opinion to the accusation that the Reps are trying to bring the draft back yet the bills are sponsored by Dems? Because that is what the article is stating and we have deducted that their position is B.S.

Wow, gott love this BS.

I am against the draft. But I also hate the government, and most parts of this country.
Drafting is exactly something Hitler would want. Same thing goes for Castro.
Let the men and women who really give a shit where this country is going join, and thats that. I wouldnt go period. I would rather shoot myself than kill someone else in the name of politics.
We need to pull out and quit baby sitting opther countries.
Take care of our OWN defense structure so that 1000's of innocent people dont get killed (AGAIN), and mind our own ****ing business. Is that really too hard for our christian loving, War hungry, soccer mom, faggot ass country to do?

The day that our government takes care of our country, is the day that I start giving a shit again. Someone tap me on the shoulder when that happens. I will be too busy comming up with my OWN opinions, and living the way I WANT to live.

No the bills are definitely sponsored By Rangell and Hollings in their respective positions. Guess you didnt reserch THAT part enough.



sorry dude, but you didn't read my post closely at all...i acknowledged THAT very fact in the last paragraph.

the point i was making is that you offered as FACT that it was a democratic supported site, and it wasn't. you were/are so bent on getting your point across that you didn't really stop to read what i wrote. i am not and did not comment on the fact that the article itself may have been biased one way or the other - a point on which i can say we agree.

please try and read more closely next time. and make sure you state opinions as such and not assert them as fact. that's all. peace.

Originally Posted by Beerman
The day that our government takes care of our country, is the day that I start giving a shit again. Someone tap me on the shoulder when that happens. I will be too busy comming up with my OWN opinions, and living the way I WANT to live.
__________________

This is going to sound harsh, but the only reason you can live the way you want to live is because of our government and the troops that support it. When you go to these countries and see children and adults without anything then talk to me. It breaks your heart. That's OK we will be 4x4ing next weekend who cares. :twak When you see it first hand it changes you.
The way you can make a difference is to vote for local, state and federal representatives. Too many people think that they don't have a voice. That is what's wrong with this country. Please vote make a difference. This is the only way we can keep this country strong. Without this country and its government you couldn't have your own opinions and live the way you want. Enough said take resposibility!

I am against the draft. But I also hate the government, and most parts of this country.

I wouldnt go period. I would rather shoot myself than kill someone else in the name of politics.

Is that really too hard for our christian loving, War hungry, soccer mom, faggot ass country to do?

The day that our government takes care of our country, is the day that I start giving a shit again..

Beerdude, you knew that comments are going to be made...so here it goes.




































OOOOOOOOOOOOH CANADA!!!