How to increase horsepower in 1978-79 bronco [Archive] - FSB Forums

: How to increase horsepower in 1978-79 bronco


Bronco5757@msn.com
04-13-2011, 06:04 PM
Ok well I searched the arhives and could not find an answer. I might have missed it if so I apologize.
But my question is how do I increase horsepower and torque on a stock 1978-79 bronco. I would be getting one with an automatic. So any solutions and tips would be nice. I would really like explainations and details as to what to do and why this increases it.
At the same time I would sill like it to be a daily driver but I wanted to make it something I could go off road with as well as squeel some tires at a stop light now and then. So in other words I'm not looking to create something insane. I put it under This title and all so the next guy with the same question will be able to find the answer by doing a simple search on here.
Thanks

Bigblew79
04-13-2011, 06:11 PM
My plan one day is to put a 429 CJ that my friend has rebuild and pickled in his garage, then I will have to figure the tranny. Oh yea the the $$ he wants for the engine, but it would be so nice. Its such a big truck and the 351m is just not enough.

Andrew James
04-13-2011, 06:29 PM
Ecoboost V6, Cummins 4bt/6bt...

If you want serious power and good survivability with MPG concerns leave the world of naturally-aspirated engines and go turbos.

Shane C.
04-13-2011, 06:48 PM
Depends on the engine. Some upgrades work pretty well across the board, but other engines have certain things that help more than on others...

The simple answer to your question is drop in a fuel injected 460... but you can also build smaller engines to produce the power as well...

79broncoowner
04-13-2011, 07:19 PM
Everybody is saying 460 I have a 390 in my bronco and it has lots of head snaping power.But if you want to wake up the engine you have in your bronco here are a few ideas.First headers and dual exhaust,allumiumn intake with a 600 edlebrock carb.These upgrades will make a difference you can feel.If thats not enough go with a good cam.My 390 has a rv cam with all the goodies I wrote above.One thing about the 460 upgrade is that aftermarket parts are a lot cheaper than the 390 plus it is easier to install.

Shane C.
04-13-2011, 07:41 PM
Everybody is saying 460 I have a 390 in my bronco and it has lots of head snaping power.But if you want to wake up the engine you have in your bronco here are a few ideas.First headers and dual exhaust,allumiumn intake with a 600 edlebrock carb.These upgrades will make a difference you can feel.If thats not enough go with a good cam.My 390 has a rv cam with all the goodies I wrote above.One thing about the 460 upgrade is that aftermarket parts are a lot cheaper than the 390 plus it is easier to install.

I agree 79. You can definetly build up a smaller engine to do serious work, and your upgrades are some of the ones I mentioned that give you gains on most any engine.

I just picked up a 78 (see my new thread :toothless) that has a 400 with most of what you talk about on/in it and it gets with it pretty good.

The biggest advantage I can see to the 460 is the ease of fuel injection, cost of parts and the potential with enough time and money. That said, my 400 wont be going anywhere anytime soon!

JKossarides
04-13-2011, 07:56 PM
A simple solution $$$$ wise would be to add a set of headers, prominent ignition components, balanced carburetor and maybe some moderate gear change in the differential.

Without knowing what engine size you have in this BKO IDK for sure BUT take a look at FSB member Sixlitre's thread "ignition & timing upgrade and see what you get out of it, otherwise you would have to build a new engine to what HP you want.

These trucks however aren't really designed for TOP END speed but rather LOW END "torque" for 4x4 pulling Off Road so just keep in mind a power to weight ratio principal, but a little more horsepower can't hurt....lol lol

Good Luck ~ :thumbup

Bronco5757@msn.com
04-13-2011, 11:31 PM
What to do for a 351

Andrew James
04-13-2011, 11:43 PM
Get the crank and pistons from a 400 and they go straight in to your 351 and you now have a 400.

For a bit more get aftermarket heads and a modern cam, do headers.

Rusty Shackelford
04-14-2011, 12:43 AM
first thing, get an indexable timing chain. The timing on these is really bad and you want to be able to run the timing strait up.

If you want to also do cam and intake, do it all at the same time so it is easier. Those valley pan gaskets arent cheap.

colobronco
04-14-2011, 02:00 AM
Headers? 100% not necessary. Asking for problems.

Timing set. Check

400 crank & pistons from TMeyer check.

Check out tuffdawgs on ebay, TMeyer & Barnett High Performance

This company used to make a 400 CID crate motor but they have stopped building them.

http://www.proformanceunlimited.com/specs/460_514_stroker.html

You can build 460 horsepower much cheaper than 400 CID horsepower. Many more aftermarket parts available.

Buy a shortblock - much easier for the novice. Edelbrock heads would be nice.

UTfball
04-14-2011, 09:52 AM
You're rolling around ina 5k brick, nothing will be neck snapping. But I like to add this for a little entry level fun (on a 400):

http://www.fordtruckfanatics.com/gallery/data/587/medium/DSC04231.JPG


I also like adding a carb from Holley's 4150 line up and an eddy performer...and no point in making inhale better if you're not gonna let it exhale, so I add some headers to the mix that dump to a 2.25" exhaust, usually with some sort of glass pack.

Bronco5757@msn.com
04-14-2011, 12:29 PM
Ok so your saying start with a small block and build up to a 460. Could you explain.

colobronco
04-14-2011, 12:35 PM
You can dick around with a 400 & you'll still have a 400. Or you can buy a running 460 out of a junk yard or CL & make big power & torque. A lot of the parts like the tranny & the dist & the radiator are the same. Bolt in deal.

Andrew James
04-14-2011, 12:38 PM
Ok so your saying start with a small block and build up to a 460. Could you explain.

I think he is listing options for your 351m build, but then also telling you to buy a 460 and stroke it to 514 cu. inches. The shortblock is pretty much the bareblock and then you add the parts like heads and intake up to longblock, then carb, accessories and turn-key.

The problem with the ideas like that is even though 500+horsepower is nice, you'll get like 6MPG on the engine he posted.

Read my second post, best cheap bang for your buck... Make your 351M a 400...

UTfball
04-14-2011, 01:21 PM
Read my second post, best cheap bang for your buck... Make your 351M a 400...

Agreed, even with the cost of getting the necessary 400 parts, you should still be able to get a 3-350hp 4-450lb/tq thumper for under 2grand if you do the work yourself. Which, IMO, isn't too far off of purchasing a running 460, nabbing the appropriate parts and purchasing the parts to achieve the same numbers.

That said, if you're looking for numbers any better than that, it's waaaay more cost effective to go 460.

Bronco5757@msn.com
04-14-2011, 02:53 PM
No I like the numbers that were put up. I think just putting a little work into a 351 will do the trick. Just a little extra without over doing it was what I was looking for. So any specific brands are names I need to know for the parts?

Bronco5757@msn.com
04-14-2011, 02:56 PM
And UTfball. What was all that you were talking about?

UTfball
04-14-2011, 03:04 PM
Tim Meyer is all you need to know. Give him a call and see what he suggests, then buy the parts from him. I've called him before just to pick his brain. Last time I called though, he said he's been toying with a couple new Lunati voodoo cams that will compete with the comp DEH255. Outside of that, I'm sure he'll tell you to nab a 400 crank, his hyper pistons, a dual plane mani, a 6-650cfm carb, he'll put you on a cam set and probably even tell you to grab a set of headers. And to this time, that's still what I mold all of my mild builds around.


And UTfball. What was all that you were talking about?

Basically the stuff I just listed.

Bronco5757@msn.com
04-14-2011, 05:22 PM
How do I get ahold of him.

Bronco5757@msn.com
04-14-2011, 05:23 PM
Another random question is should I be wary of buying a bronco with an old bore job on the engine.

79broncoowner
04-14-2011, 05:23 PM
Edlebrock carb 600 cfm,edlebrock allumium intake,Duel exhaust and I like headers.Everybody is scared of headers because of leaks but if you install them correctly you will have no problems.Get a good gasket then coat both sides of the gasket with some liquid copper.Install the headers and tighten and let it sit all night before starting the engine.The next two times you drive the bronco when you get home tighten the header bolts.That is what I did and I dont have any leaks.

abrojal
04-14-2011, 11:13 PM
easy

you must to have a credit card

that´s my project

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189086

colobronco
04-15-2011, 05:54 AM
Another random question is should I be wary of buying a bronco with an old bore job on the engine.

Yes

colobronco
04-15-2011, 05:58 AM
Tim Meyer is all you need to know. Give him a call and see what he suggests, then buy the parts from him. I've called him before just to pick his brain. Last time I called though, he said he's been toying with a couple new Lunati voodoo cams that will compete with the comp DEH255. Outside of that, I'm sure he'll tell you to nab a 400 crank, his hyper pistons, a dual plane mani, a 6-650cfm carb, he'll put you on a cam set and probably even tell you to grab a set of headers. And to this time, that's still what I mold all of my mild builds around.

And that entails removing the engine stripping it down, sending the block to be hot tanked, crack checked, line bored milled & all the goodies. Then work the heads.

dagamore
04-15-2011, 06:50 AM
a motor is just an air pump, the more air it flows the more power you get out of it.

Find out what is holding back your air flow, and remove that restriction, my guess is that your upgrade path should be.
Ignition - need to burn what you got
exhaust - need to get it out
heads - need to get it in
cams - need to get it in
intake+carbs - need to get it in

once thats done you then have a choice of power adders, N2O/Turbo/Turbos/Supercharger, all of them add more air either through chemical addition(N20(~33% O2 vs ~18% air O2 level)), or by compressing the 18% O2 air and forcing more of it in to the motor, twin small turbos(Provided not too small)> single medium/large turbo > Roots/twin screw > Centrifugal in amount of power per lb of boost on same motor. This can be done very cheaply such as ~300$ for a used N2O plate kit(goes under carb(wet kits rule(wet means it add fuel and N20))) to ~5-8k for a twin turbo or supercharger setup(no idea on cost for a Bronco but in the 2005+ mustang world thats about right)

and the other option is to add more motor, either via boring/stroking your current motor to a motor swap to a bigger motor be it a 427W SBF or a 600+ ci John Kasse Boss Nine(monster kewl motor!) hell just about any good FE block will be a good wake up and can be built up from a decent block for ~5 grand.

just my 2 cents. I would go turbos!

UTfball
04-15-2011, 10:44 AM
How do I get ahold of him.

Google Tim Meyer Inc...then give him a call, or shoot him an email.

Another random question is should I be wary of buying a bronco with an old bore job on the engine.

Depends on how bored it is...60 over, pass, 30 over and there's still plenty of wall there.

And that entails removing the engine stripping it down, sending the block to be hot tanked, crack checked, line bored milled & all the goodies. Then work the heads.

I'll agree, it's not a bad thing to do...but not always necessary. I've pulled quite a few seized engines out of fields and after a weekend of TLC, had no hesitations of throwing it in a rig. Hell, the 351M I swapped in as temp motor in my current Bronco had been sitting out in a field with the intake off for God knows how long, after a little work, it did just fine. The 400 that replaced it, again pulled out of a field after sitting for 3 months, a little work and it's still problem free (outside of a vacuum leak). And both of those engines made countless trips down I-40 from Charlotte to Knoxville when I was in school. So I'll agree, if you're anal, or don't have a clue what you're doing, you're right, the things you listed are a good idea...but I don't believe they're a necessity.

colobronco
04-15-2011, 10:45 AM
Running 460's on Denver Craigslist are going for between $300-$600.

BigWheelz
04-15-2011, 11:00 AM
460 efi is all you will ever need. This is a VERY easy swap for the electrically inclined.

RiP
04-15-2011, 06:59 PM
Im in the process of looking for an M block to rebuild, I've spent the last few days researching the subject .... From what i have read you can safely bore an m block 40 over so as long as your below that your ok... Start here, I'ts a great resource page for building an M block ...


http://www.projectbronco.com/Technical_Articles/351m400_performance_build_up.htm

kahillsmith
04-15-2011, 11:00 PM
Not really sure of your budget or goals. I've got an RV cam, headers, and a holley fuel injection set-up good to 300hp on my 351M. I'm looking at Barnett High Performance to do a stage 2 head port job to optimize the breathing now. Another idea is to change over to a manual trans. C6 auto eats up a lot of hp from parasitic loss, as opposed to a manual trans.

colobronco
04-16-2011, 01:02 AM
460 efi is you will ever need. This is a VERY easy swap for the electrically inclined.

Especially if you use Trent's engine towers.

colobronco
04-16-2011, 01:05 AM
Not really sure of your budget or goals. I've got an RV cam, headers, and a holley fuel injection set-up good to 300hp on my 351M. I'm looking at Barnett High Performance to do a stage 2 head port job to optimize the breathing now. Another idea is to change over to a manual trans. C6 auto eats up a lot of hp from parasitic loss, as opposed to a manual trans.

300 horsepower? Personally I doubt it. IMHO adding performance parts to a 351M (smogger) is a waste of time. With a 400 crank a lot is possible. Like a TMeyer stroker. etc. Decent compression ratio. Edelbrock heads.

TdmayfieldIV
04-16-2011, 03:01 AM
I apologise in advance for my post, i just got back form the bar.

I don'tknow what you guys are talking about. with my 400 (stock cam, edelbrock performer, cheby tbi fool injection) i can break the tirs loose with one swift movement of my foot. I have raced and beat
1.an fj cruiser
2.a 2005 dodge diesel
3. a subaru inpreza 2.5
4. bmw 325i

I mean, those aren't fast cars by any stretch of the emagination but ****, it's not slow. I think the 400 is good stock, or as stock as mine is.

pfeffer1728
04-16-2011, 08:11 AM
i'm gonna need video of a bronco beating a 325i...

351w500
04-16-2011, 09:02 AM
I would go with the 400 but lose the 400 heads cause of exhaust flow issues. Use a set of 2v 351c heads as they are identicle exept for better flow.

kahillsmith
04-16-2011, 06:01 PM
I meant the holley fuel injection would support 300hp, not that it was a 300hp engine.

TdmayfieldIV
04-16-2011, 10:50 PM
i'm gonna need video of a bronco beating a 325i...

it was old

chromo79
04-16-2011, 11:13 PM
I apologise in advance for my post, i just got back form the bar.

I don'tknow what you guys are talking about. with my 400 (stock cam, edelbrock performer, cheby tbi fool injection) i can break the tirs loose with one swift movement of my foot. I have raced and beat
1.an fj cruiser
2.a 2005 dodge diesel
3. a subaru inpreza 2.5
4. bmw 325i

I mean, those aren't fast cars by any stretch of the emagination but ****, it's not slow. I think the 400 is good stock, or as stock as mine is.


Im your huckleberry!

I'm an old man, with an old truck, (flat top 460 mild cam, demon carb,) but I am fairly confident that I cant beat a stock 3 series bimmer. My sons M3 would outrun his Z06 in 1000 foot, and id be willing to bet that you cant either.
I dont want to be an old man talking out of school, but i would be willing to race. I run 385 series engines because 335's are not quite up to par.


What were the numbers on a stock 400?

TdmayfieldIV
04-16-2011, 11:24 PM
like 125hp and 300 ft/lbs tq

chromo79
04-16-2011, 11:35 PM
like 125hp and 300 ft/lbs tq

Exactly. However, the 460 was no jewel, but it is capable of a little bit more, and would take less to bring out its potential.

Ive seen first hand some 335's make some good power, but, it cant match the 385 dollar for dollar.

Broncoholic1
04-17-2011, 03:41 AM
Exactly. However, the 460 was no jewel, but it is capable of a little bit more, and would take less to bring out its potential.

Ive seen first hand some 335's make some good power, but, it cant match the 385 dollar for dollar.

That is true but the Engine Master Challenge winners were 400 fords. Make a nice stump puller.

Nice cam, carb & Headers & some port work you will exceed your goals.

BigWheelz
04-17-2011, 04:35 PM
Im your huckleberry!

I'm an old man, with an old truck, (flat top 460 mild cam, demon carb,) but I am fairly confident that I cant beat a stock 3 series bimmer. My sons M3 would outrun his Z06 in 1000 foot, and id be willing to bet that you cant either.
I dont want to be an old man talking out of school, but i would be willing to race. I run 385 series engines because 335's are not quite up to par.


What were the numbers on a stock 400?

OMFG your son needs to learn how to drive!:histerica At least the vette is a MUCH better chick magnet.

I have seen Accords and Camrys whoop a BMW 325i. The BMW 325i was nothing special, sub 200 hp and a little less torque at its best performance model. These things are slow in my book.

Besides, I dunno what all the fuss is about a Beamer. Nothing says metrosexual yuppie like an overpriced german sports car.

OX1
04-18-2011, 12:56 AM
like 125hp and 300 ft/lbs tq

I've seen 156-161, but never that low for a 400.

as for an engine. I would get whatever is cheaper OVERALL!!!! (400 or 460)

price it all out, including 460 install items and fact most 460's were 4bbl stock.

colobronco
04-26-2011, 06:11 AM
Does anyone understand this?

speedyweasel
04-26-2011, 01:42 PM
Check his sig line and his other posts. Gold farmer/bot. Mods??

:bs :lowblow :ban

bigblue7879
04-26-2011, 04:02 PM
throw a holley double pumper with a 4bbl intake of your choice...it will bring that 351m 400m A-Live

'79 Warhorse
04-29-2011, 02:23 AM
Not to step on anyones toes but I hear a lot of people saying "swap with a 460" or "swap crank, rods, and pistons to make a 400". I also hear the 351M guys saying it's a great motor but not giving any advice on the issue (minus of course the guy who basically said to slap on a different carb and call it a day.) Try this after you yank all that un-needed smogger crap off the top of your motor and seal the un-needed vacuum ports. (I did that and undid my a/c and I must say...not a huge change but noticeable.) This link will tell you how to get more power out of your 351M and if you should decide to go the 400 route, this will also put you down the right path. http://www.projectbronco.com/Technical_Articles/351m400_performance_build_up.htm

colobronco
04-29-2011, 05:46 AM
We know all that. But the issue becomes.

Do I pull my motor, pickle it & go new bearings ? OR do I unbolt all the smog crap, install a double roller timing chain, alum manifold 4 barrel & live with the crappy 8 to 1 compression?

That is the fatal insurmountable flaw in the 351M.

Scoop
04-29-2011, 07:58 AM
Not to step on anyones toes but I hear a lot of people saying "swap with a 460" or "swap crank, rods, and pistons to make a 400". I also hear the 351M guys saying it's a great motor but not giving any advice on the issue (minus of course the guy who basically said to slap on a different carb and call it a day.) Try this after you yank all that un-needed smogger crap off the top of your motor and seal the un-needed vacuum ports. (I did that and undid my a/c and I must say...not a huge change but noticeable.) This link will tell you how to get more power out of your 351M and if you should decide to go the 400 route, this will also put you down the right path. http://www.projectbronco.com/Technical_Articles/351m400_performance_build_up.htm

Very good info but last updated in 2002! There are a lot better pistons and cams available now.

speedyweasel
04-29-2011, 09:22 AM
We know all that. But the issue becomes.

Do I pull my motor, pickle it & go new bearings ? OR do I unbolt all the smog crap, install a double roller timing chain, alum manifold 4 barrel & live with the crappy 8 to 1 compression?

Reminds me of the old engineering adage: "You can have it good, cheap and fast... pick two."

That is the fatal insurmountable flaw in the 351M.

Indecision is a human flaw, not the engine's. The 335, once given all of the options you listed, plus cam, lifters, pistons and headers, will provide more than enough power for our applications. Suddenly it doesn't sound like such a flawed engine design. Flame on! :rockon

Very good info but last updated in 2002! There are a lot better pistons and cams available now.

Raise the tide for everyone... post links, updates or corrections for posterity. Obviously we won't have many Australian heads floating around, but if you know where to get a good timing set or some great pistons, link up! :thumbup

BigWheelz
04-29-2011, 10:26 AM
That is the fatal insurmountable flaw in the 351M.

The Fatal, Insurmaountable Flaw of an M-block is the weak block. They can and do crack, 1977+ blocks included.

'79 Warhorse
04-29-2011, 01:26 PM
Thanks for the update Scoop! And your right SpeedyWeasel, you can only have two. Look, I don't know what was in the original budget or build plan for this rig but I do know that every single one of us work on our own rigs with a different budget than the next guy. I, myself, am doing my rig's build on a military pay budget, which isnt a lot trust me. Matter of fact just this pay period I only had enough to replace an oem timing set because my rig needed it. Most all of my big build money comes from deployments. So, you if you have the budget to buy a 460, strip it, check it out and put the best aftermarket goodies you can find on it....then hey post the dyno when your done! But, if your low budget like me, do smal subtle changes because an old worn down warhorse is better than a broken one. Thanks, guys, we have a big variation of opinions but in any fashion most all of it is useful information.

colobronco
05-01-2011, 12:51 AM
Indecision is a human flaw, not the engine's. The 335, once given all of the options you listed, plus cam, lifters, pistons and headers, will provide more than enough power for our applications. Suddenly it doesn't sound like such a flawed engine design.

We were discussing a poster who asks : Can I get better performance out of my 351M with a Edel man & 4 barrel. Actually the 2150 is plenty of carb. We are discussing bolt on mods. Let's go the next step dbl roller timing chain.

To me the answer is still no.

Without going to a 400 crank good performance is not gonna happen. And why build a kicker 400 when you can buy a running 460 off craig's list?

I have the kicker 400 & I would not do it again.

Macmillan1
05-01-2011, 03:07 AM
Ive got 2v 351C heads, thoguht they were 4v a while ago but i was wrong, 4v are only good after like 5000RPM, anyway with that, the 351 C intake, and an rv cam, I can spin em through 2nd and it bites HARD in third, thats with a 600CFM 2 barrel :toothless

speedyweasel
05-01-2011, 10:12 AM
We were discussing a poster who asks : Can I get better performance out of my 351M with a Edel man & 4 barrel. Actually the 2150 is plenty of carb. We are discussing bolt on mods. Let's go the next step dbl roller timing chain.

To me the answer is still no.

Without going to a 400 crank good performance is not gonna happen. And why build a kicker 400 when you can buy a running 460 off craig's list?

I have the kicker 400 & I would not do it again.

Answer is always the same... diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. Will he get better performance by upgrading his intake and carb? Yeah. Is it worth it? The opinions will outnumber the assholes on that one. Swapping intake & carb takes an hour or three. Swapping in a 460 takes triple that even if you have help, motor mounts and know what you're doing.

I'd consider his intake and carb to be 'bolt-on' but the engine swap? Sure, it's all technically bolts but calling a 460 swap a bolt-on is like calling the space shuttle boosters bolt-on. Yeah, it's a bunch of bolts but there's just a LITTLE bit more involved.

As always, YMMV. :beer

imonfireagain94
05-02-2011, 01:21 AM
My 79 with a 351m ive always said just runs abnormally good. I hear everyone always talking crap on them but damn does mine pull hard from a stop. Ive got an edelbrock 650 carb on top of a performer 400 intake, and all the smog crap is gone. I dont know what my timing is set at but when that got changed it seemed to make a lot of a difference. I raced my buddy's 78 f150 with a rebuilt 400 with the same carb on it, and i dusted him, so i dont know. I feel like i have plenty of power, even after 135000 hard miles. Granted, i have a 460 that was given to me, that im going to build up for when the 351 dies, but im in no hurry. My 351 has guts to it unlike everyone elses i gues.

UTfball
05-02-2011, 10:37 AM
Ive got 2v 351C heads, thoguht they were 4v a while ago but i was wrong, 4v are only good after like 5000RPM, anyway with that, the 351 C intake, and an rv cam, I can spin em through 2nd and it bites HARD in third, thats with a 600CFM 2 barrel :toothless


So would you advise on picking up a set of 2v C heads? I thought they were the exact same as the 351M/400 heads, but I've read that some think they're a couple cc 'bigger'. I've been looking for a head upgrade that won't cost a couple grand and jumped on the 351C bandwagon hard, but the more I read, the more it seemed like the 2v's didn't accomplish much.

OX1
05-02-2011, 10:51 AM
The Fatal, Insurmaountable Flaw of an M-block is the weak block. They can and do crack, 1977+ blocks included.

They must have excluded the NE in those blocks then :popc1:. Over 25 years, my friends and I have had well over 100 M-block (all 78/79) trucks/broncs between us. Never one cracked block (unless you count the 351m that had it's crank broke from too many 6500 RPM blasts). :toothless

Maybe someday I will see one personally, but to make it seem like it is such a HUGE problem that the M needs to be avoided completely, is just an outright crock.

OX1
05-02-2011, 11:05 AM
We were discussing a poster who asks : Can I get better performance out of my 351M with a Edel man & 4 barrel. Actually the 2150 is plenty of carb. We are discussing bolt on mods. Let's go the next step dbl roller timing chain.

To me the answer is still no.

Without going to a 400 crank good performance is not gonna happen. And why build a kicker 400 when you can buy a running 460 off craig's list?

I have the kicker 400 & I would not do it again.

The one problem with buying used running engines, is will you get enough time with the motor to "get to know" it.

Will it be dead cold when you get there for you to see it start to prove cold start is OK (carb, vac, or EFI issues??), no smoke blows out @ cold start.

Will you get to drive it around and see if it has power or driveability issues. Does it overheat after extended drive, is it down on power, blow any kinds of smoke @ full throttle. Do lifters start to tick after it runs an hour. What is the true oil pressure @ idle when warm (only hooking up a real guage will you find out)????

Problem with buying even a running motor is you don't get to know what you really have unless you buy the vehicle and run these test yourself (including compression test). At that point, you own it either way though. Of course you can chance it, do all that work and install it, to find out you have a minor crack in a head that didn't show up in the brief time you heard it run.

Don't get me wrong, seeing an engine run briefly is still better than not seeing it run at all, but unless you buy the whole vehicle (what I usually do), you won't really know for sure what you have.

That does add to the cost, but drastically reduces the chances of you installing a POS. Even if you have it home and find a problem in the vehicle, you can possibly correct it before install (maybe it just needs new main bearings, etc...). Once you do factor in the added cost of buying the vehicle, a 400 rebuild does look a more attractive.

Again, I say do whatever is cheaper overall, but to keep it fair, you need to be able to thoroughly check out any used engine and that is hard to do effectively with only a brief listen/look to/at it.

OX1
05-02-2011, 11:08 AM
So would you advise on picking up a set of 2v C heads? I thought they were the exact same as the 351M/400 heads, but I've read that some think they're a couple cc 'bigger'. I've been looking for a head upgrade that won't cost a couple grand and jumped on the 351C bandwagon hard, but the more I read, the more it seemed like the 2v's didn't accomplish much.


Are the aussie heads really that much now? I didn't think the M or C 2V heads "flow" was that big of a problem, just the chambers.

UTfball
05-02-2011, 11:15 AM
^^^I dunno...I'm a dunce when it head tech/science. I just have a couple buddies with 2v C heads for under $300 and I thought it would be worth it even if there were some minor gains. But I suppose I don't know enough or want to spend enough to find out. I was just looking for something that would bolt on and have minimal cost.

Scoop
05-02-2011, 11:57 AM
Are the aussie heads really that much now? I didn't think the M or C 2V heads "flow" was that big of a problem, just the chambers.

You can get fully built OZ heads from TMeyer for around $1100.

UTfball
05-02-2011, 12:23 PM
^^^I'm just a cheap bastard, and would rather pick up a front 60 for that at this point in time. The ol' 400 is running great, just thought if there was something pretty cheap that was worth my time, then I'd goive it a go.

OX1
05-02-2011, 06:36 PM
You can get fully built OZ heads from TMeyer for around $1100.


Thanks, I didn't think they were a couple grand.

'79 Warhorse
05-02-2011, 09:45 PM
So would you advise on picking up a set of 2v C heads? I thought they were the exact same as the 351M/400 heads, but I've read that some think they're a couple cc 'bigger'. I've been looking for a head upgrade that won't cost a couple grand and jumped on the 351C bandwagon hard, but the more I read, the more it seemed like the 2v's didn't accomplish much.

2v C' are relatively the same only being 2.2 cc's smaller than 351M/400 heads. Have you shaved your heads already? If not shave them 0.010 to 0.025 with 0.025 being the absolute most. This will increase your compression creating more power. It's not a huge increase ( being less than a full point of compression ) but noticeable. Anymore than that and your are going to want to find a set of aussie's or something aftermarket similiar to aussie's.

Daniel
05-02-2011, 09:59 PM
I owned a 79 with a 351 since 81 and it was always a sluggish dog, even after putting in a 400 crank/pistons,edelbrock SP2P, RV comp cam, headers, ect until.........a buddy gave me a freshly rebuilt Holley 4165 650 and I chunked the quadrabog......BAM!!!!! I showed up at the sand drags in my club with 3:50 gearing, detroit in the rear and 35 inch rubber and took the trophy from dudes with 350s in CJs, I can hit it as fast as I can and there is no hesitation, just screaming, they were like what did you do to that thing:histerica Fuel and flow, that's the ticket. Do you know what a pouting Jeep freak w/ a 350 looks like?? I do:beer True story, I have lots of 1st and 2nd place trophys and plagues with that setup and still have it intact in my shop though the body's gone and I have a different 79 now:rockon

BigWheelz
05-02-2011, 10:29 PM
They must have excluded the NE in those blocks then :popc1:. Over 25 years, my friends and I have had well over 100 M-block (all 78/79) trucks/broncs between us. Never one cracked block (unless you count the 351m that had it's crank broke from too many 6500 RPM blasts). :toothless

Maybe someday I will see one personally, but to make it seem like it is such a HUGE problem that the M needs to be avoided completely, is just an outright crock.

Unless you have more than 4 friends toting M-blocks, that works out to one M-block truck per year per person. Not a good track record....just saying.

I had two D7TE M-blocks crack, one after another. Maybe its luck of the draw or maybe I was pushing them too hard. Either way, from my point of view and the $$$$ I lost to them....I would be a fool to build another one. You can call it a crock and build all the M-blocks you want. I wish you the best of luck. You will probably need it.:whiteflag

colobronco
05-03-2011, 12:31 AM
^^^I'm just a cheap bastard, and would rather pick up a front 60 for that at this point in time. The ol' 400 is running great, just thought if there was something pretty cheap that was worth my time, then I'd goive it a go.

It's the 4v Clevelands you want to avoid. Valves are way too big.

The heads that are a grand a piece are the alum Edelbrocks.

OX1
05-03-2011, 01:41 AM
Unless you have more than 4 friends toting M-blocks, that works out to one M-block truck per year per person. Not a good track record....just saying.



Just saying what, that you can make the dumbest assumption I've ever heard. :doh0715: Try well over 100 trucks. My buddy and I have had over 40 running M-block trucks between us. Many got parted due to severe rust issues. Some got sold, some blew up, but NO cracked blocks, ever.



I had two D7TE M-blocks crack, one after another. Maybe its luck of the draw or maybe I was pushing them too hard. Either way, from my point of view and the $$$$ I lost to them....I would be a fool to build another one. You can call it a crock and build all the M-blocks you want. I wish you the best of luck. You will probably need it.:whiteflag

If it is such a huge problem, how come there are so many " how do I upgrade my 351m/400" threads. They must all have cracked blocks already, so how can their motors still be running?? You'd be even more of a fool to continue to assume that all M's will crack, just because yours did.

351w500
05-03-2011, 10:35 AM
The Earlier 400's did not suffer from this AND had the good 2v 351c heads if you get the '73 on down...... I have heard that it was only '78 on up that would crack and it was RARE that it happened. If 1 out of every 10,000 engine blocks cracks then people say that that engine is shit, But if the odd's of winning the lottery go up to 1 in 1,000,000 then they will play...... Get your facts straight and learn how to read a date code-

351w500
05-03-2011, 10:48 AM
The blocks marked "MCC" prior to march 2nd of 1977 are the ones that MIGHT suffer from this problem, Blocks marked "CF" are ok and would be more desirable.

BigWheelz
05-03-2011, 11:20 AM
Sigh.... We have all seen the Bubba page and it is a wealth of good information. Some of it is can be a little misleading, but overall it is great.

D7TE blocks got a reinforced #3 main for a manual trans in truck applications. To my knowledge this is the only revision for the 1977+ block. The idea that the D7TE block, regardless of foundry, is crack resistant is most likely internet specualtion. I have seen no proof of a crack resistant casting....In fact I have experienced the opposite. Of the five M-blocks I have owned, two have cracked and both were D7TE castings.

I have said it before and will say it again. To all the M-block lovers....Good luck, you are going to need it.

351w500
05-03-2011, 11:25 AM
what is a bubba page ?

reynard101
05-03-2011, 03:41 PM
what is a bubba page ?

http://classic-web.archive.org/web/20071216153439/http://home.earthlink.net/~bubbaf250/parts/parts01.html

351w500
05-03-2011, 08:02 PM
informative site-

OX1
05-03-2011, 09:55 PM
I have said it before and will say it again. To all the M-block lovers....Good luck, you are going to need it.

Give it a rest already. The average guy who comes on this board and rebuilds his 78 or 79 M block engine is not going to have any problems. It's probably 1000 to 1 of those that had cracked blocks vs not. Your bordering on trollism, spouting off to newbs that their block is going to crack when that chance is slim to none.

Go search yourself, "cracked block" in the 78/79 section yielded 26 threads over 8 years. Many of them where not even about a cracked M-block.

'79 Warhorse
05-03-2011, 10:27 PM
I owned a 79 with a 351 since 81 and it was always a sluggish dog, even after putting in a 400 crank/pistons,edelbrock SP2P, RV comp cam, headers, ect until.........a buddy gave me a freshly rebuilt Holley 4165 650 and I chunked the quadrabog......BAM!!!!! I showed up at the sand drags in my club with 3:50 gearing, detroit in the rear and 35 inch rubber and took the trophy from dudes with 350s in CJs, I can hit it as fast as I can and there is no hesitation, just screaming, they were like what did you do to that thing:histerica Fuel and flow, that's the ticket. Do you know what a pouting Jeep freak w/ a 350 looks like?? I do:beer True story, I have lots of 1st and 2nd place trophys and plagues with that setup and still have it intact in my shop though the body's gone and I have a different 79 now:rockon

I bought my 79 from the 2nd of the truck, who obviously didn't know what he was doing. You know, running too big a tire on to small a gear ratio. Not only that, i had problems like the distributor seized in the block. It would run but you couldn't time it for crap. A lot of the simple tune stuff and re-build stuff wasnt taken care of. Man, I could go on and on about what was wrong with this truck. Yes, I know it was him and not the first owner because he had all the records of the parts he bought. All in all...I haven't done much to my 351M but mine isn't a dog. My 351M on pro comp a/ts keeps up with a much newer chevy 6.0L 2500 and another much newer 351W F-250. I say to each his own. Everyone has a preference. I'm new to the Ford world, with my entire family being chevy with the exception of my uncle. He's the reason why I bought the old Warhorse. But, it seems to me, that this arguement over 351M's is a lot like the 305 SBC arguement. I didn't believe that the 305 was a crappy engine, having owned two that were bone stock having nothing more doen to them but a rebuild. I fail to believe that a vehicle as succesful as the Bronco would house an engine that is actually worthy of the crap thats said about it. I don't think the 351M is a failure. Being almost identical to a 400, it's capable of almost as much power. It's just a preference thing.

Daniel
05-03-2011, 10:51 PM
I bought my 79 from the 2nd of the truck, who obviously didn't know what he was doing. You know, running too big a tire on to small a gear ratio. Not only that, i had problems like the distributor seized in the block. It would run but you couldn't time it for crap. A lot of the simple tune stuff and re-build stuff wasnt taken care of. Man, I could go on and on about what was wrong with this truck. Yes, I know it was him and not the first owner because he had all the records of the parts he bought. All in all...I haven't done much to my 351M but mine isn't a dog. My 351M on pro comp a/ts keeps up with a much newer chevy 6.0L 2500 and another much newer 351W F-250. I say to each his own. Everyone has a preference. I'm new to the Ford world, with my entire family being chevy with the exception of my uncle. He's the reason why I bought the old Warhorse. But, it seems to me, that this arguement over 351M's is a lot like the 305 SBC arguement. I didn't believe that the 305 was a crappy engine, having owned two that were bone stock having nothing more doen to them but a rebuild. I fail to believe that a vehicle as succesful as the Bronco would house an engine that is actually worthy of the crap thats said about it. I don't think the 351M is a failure. Being almost identical to a 400, it's capable of almost as much power. It's just a preference thing.

Just say'in my setup was a dog until I bolted the Holley on, I actually grew up with a Black 79 Custom Bronco 351 then 400 and made it race only in 91' and have the trophys to back it up:rockon My family and club members are Ford haters..........that's where I'm at;)
I am currently building up my Jeep CJ-8 with an AMC 360 so you can see I'm not devoted to any motor.............

Andrew James
05-03-2011, 10:56 PM
The 351M sucks in comparison because it's the same thing as a 400 that has been de-tuned pretty much. 305/350s and 302/351w are different because they are complete different engines.

351w500
05-03-2011, 11:02 PM
arent 351's tall deck 302's ?

Andrew James
05-03-2011, 11:05 PM
arent 351's tall deck 302's ?

My point is you can make a 351M a 400 all day long for no extra cost really, you can't make a 302 a 351w, not even by stroking it.

Scoop
05-04-2011, 08:38 AM
arent 351's tall deck 302's ?

Windsors, Yes, M's No. A 400 is a tall deck 351C. A 351M is a destroked 400.

351M to 400 conversion is easy - just swap in a 400's crank and pistons. But in stock form you will still have a 400 that has been detuned for 70's smog compliance. To make these engines perform better you then need to get a better cam, increase the cam timing and make it breath better. Aftermarket 4 bbl intake and a reasonably sized carb will do it. From my research, jury is still out on how much headers will help over stock manifolds.

speedyweasel
05-04-2011, 12:48 PM
Well, I'd be happy to post up actual results if any of you guys want to spring for the dyno pull costs. I have a bone-stock '78 400M with the 2-bbl Motorcraft, cast iron intake and exhaust manifolds on it. Sitting in my garage are an Edelbrock 3771 aluminum intake, Hedman 89210 headers and a Carter AFB Performance carburetor. I'm not swapping cams (at this time) or any other internals, so if you want to see what cheap, bolt-on power upgrades can do, we need to dyno this bitch soon 'cause I plan to toss as many of these bits on there as I have time for this weekend.

'79 Warhorse
05-05-2011, 05:08 PM
The 351M sucks in comparison because it's the same thing as a 400 that has been de-tuned pretty much. 305/350s and 302/351w are different because they are complete different engines.

True, on both accounts. But again, I say that this arguement is similiar. I think I'm quoting this correctly by saying that there are more opinions than the assholes giving them. No offense to anyone by the way. I was just simply stating that a lot of people hate the 351M just like a lot of people hate the 305 SBC. I'm sure Dodge fanatics have their own love and hate arguements. That's all.

Macmillan1
05-30-2011, 03:06 AM
So would you advise on picking up a set of 2v C heads? I thought they were the exact same as the 351M/400 heads, but I've read that some think they're a couple cc 'bigger'. I've been looking for a head upgrade that won't cost a couple grand and jumped on the 351C bandwagon hard, but the more I read, the more it seemed like the 2v's didn't accomplish much.

Well realistically on a peice of paper number wise they do not seem like they would really do a hell of a lot, When you throw 351C 2v heads on and use the stock 351M intake you dont really acomplish much, But When combined with the 351C intake (You will need a spacer, Mine is made by moroso) The 351/400M will flow a signifcant amount better, my motor is also .030 over and When the cam was installed it degreed to IIRC 0* instead of the stock smog era 4* which Alone made a very noticeable diffrence,The heads where shaved to .015 and stronger valve springs and rocker arms where isntalled, And a 3A valve job. A steel geared straight up double roller timing chain was also put in place(instead of that shit teflon gear) I believe it was from a 1973 351C, along with a gasket match port and polish, plus deburring and polishing the intake/exaust runners on the heads. The results of all this turned out to be (since I got it timed dead on) very VERY noticeable, Most of the 351M's I have noticed in my previous trucks start to drop off around 4500RPM, and some even have a dead zone under hard acceleration at around 2200RPM With all these somewhat minor, and more significant changes I notice a complete change from an average 351M, The way it starts, The way it idles, The freakin' torque is unbelieveable, The RPM range went from idle-4500RPM to idle-5500RPM, My truck also Idles at 580RPM flat and has a serious lope to it down there, but she won't stall on a flat ground just easing the clutch out in 2nd gear. Overall it just pretty much made for a finer tuned, better running, slightly better performing motor, A little higher of a CR and definitley has more pep, she'll wind up quicker and she'll continue to produce power throughout the RPM range, Im not sure if you have a T-18 or not, but the 3rd-4th gear gap is HUGE on these trans's and on a stock 351M your shifting in between those 2 gears constantly at the 35-55 mph range. The way this motor is built It will pull all day in 4th, or maintain a constant speed without getting that sluggish need to downshift to keep up with traffic feeling. Overall it cost about $1200 to have all this done which sounds way low, But if you shop around, I did all the head work besides having them milled down, all the port/polishing, Cam/lifters/new oem length rods. Im going to dig up all the specs that I have for this motor from when I put it together.

Are the aussie heads really that much now? I didn't think the M or C 2V heads "flow" was that big of a problem, just the chambers.

the 351C heads were much more refined, they do flow much better an have larger intake/exaust ports, not by much at all, but they are infact a tad bit bigger, also the heads Combustion chamber is 2.2CC's smaller and yields
8.23:1 CR instead of the stock 8.0:1 just bolting them on to a 351/400M, do a little more work and replace old worn out parts ect and you can build a nice motor for a DD or weekend warrior.


^^^I dunno...I'm a dunce when it head tech/science. I just have a couple buddies with 2v C heads for under $300 and I thought it would be worth it even if there were some minor gains. But I suppose I don't know enough or want to spend enough to find out. I was just looking for something that would bolt on and have minimal cost.

Go with the 351C 2v's, It's worth the $300 for em:rockon

2v C' are relatively the same only being 2.2 cc's smaller than 351M/400 heads. Have you shaved your heads already? If not shave them 0.010 to 0.025 with 0.025 being the absolute most. This will increase your compression creating more power. It's not a huge increase ( being less than a full point of compression ) but noticeable. Anymore than that and your are going to want to find a set of aussie's or something aftermarket similiar to aussie's.

you can also throw in a set of 351C pistons, with 1 valve relief from IIRC a 1973 motor? and that will bump the compression ratio up to a flat 9:1 with the 351C 2v heads too, which in reality isn't that big of a thing. I was looking at a real good build on a 400M the other day and they were getting numbers in the area of 420-430HP out of an intake change, head swap and piston change. It was all done for under $2000 too IIRC, I'll try to dig it up for you guys:rockon

colobronco
05-31-2011, 02:05 AM
I would find those HP numbers a little hard to believe.

OX1
05-31-2011, 03:35 PM
Go with the 351C 2v's, It's worth the $300 for em:rockon



you can also throw in a set of 351C pistons, with 1 valve relief from IIRC a 1973 motor? and that will bump the compression ratio up to a flat 9:1 with the 351C 2v heads too, which in reality isn't that big of a thing. I was looking at a real good build on a 400M the other day and they were getting numbers in the area of 420-430HP out of an intake change, head swap and piston change. It was all done for under $2000 too IIRC, I'll try to dig it up for you guys:rockon

Where are you getting rebuilt "C" 2V heads for $300

Tim Meyer claims I should be around 375 HP with 10.8:1 and CHI 2V heads. I'd have to see that build before I believe it, especially for under 2 grand.

J&SBroncolvrs
06-01-2011, 12:41 AM
OK, here's my two cents for the 351M/400. Straight up timing gears. Can be double rollers if you want. Comp cams, eddelbrock, clevite, you probably won't find any made today that are retarded 4 degrees like the originals were. Biggest cam with stock heads: Comp cams 270H. .484 lift on intake and exhaust, no need to change valve springs. Put on a good intake, dual plane is the key. Again, made by lots of different manufacturers. Pick one. I like the edelbrock 1406 600 cfm four barrel carb. You need a kit to hook up the kickdown if you have a C6. Also get the needle valve spring kit and put it in the carb. Easy. Put on some headers but be prepared to have to do some fancy exhaust work to get around the crossmember underneath. Torque the headers, drive it fifty miles. Torque the headers, drive it 50 miles. Do it again and then one more time for fun. Now the flanges on the headers are relaxed into place, no leaks at the headers. Now, because of the new cam and timing gears, factory timing is out the window. Get a vacuum guage and hook it up, tweak the distributor until you see 20-22 on the guage. Should be pretty close to bang on the mark for proper timing. These engines LOVE timing advance (as long as you aren't towing something really heavy). Put on a timing gun and get a friend to rev it to 3000 rpm. Is the total advance you are reading around 32-34 degrees? If not go to the junk yard and pull some timing weight springs out of some different distributors. Find some that are weaker than what you have in the distributor and put them in. do the timing test again until you get the 32-34 total timing advance. Once you are done, you've just done the poor mans distributor recurve! Do the sixlitre tune up. Done! If you are not EXTREMELY happy with the results, I'll eat my shorts(and i haven't showered today)! Oh, and just for an FYI, I've seen under the hood of an older Crown Vic police car. Guess what? 351M with police interceptor heads. Fast as hell.

harrison94
06-01-2011, 09:02 AM
Now, because of the new cam and timing gears, factory timing is out the window. Get a vacuum guage and hook it up, tweak the distributor until you see 20-22 on the guage. Should be pretty close to bang on the mark for proper timing. These engines LOVE timing advance (as long as you aren't towing something really heavy). Put on a timing gun and get a friend to rev it to 3000 rpm. Is the total advance you are reading around 32-34 degrees? If not go to the junk yard and pull some timing weight springs out of some different distributors. Find some that are weaker than what you have in the distributor and put them in. do the timing test again until you get the 32-34 total timing advance.


Totally agree with the timing. Set mine at around 12 degrees with a timing light, wouldn’t pass emissions. Set it by ear and then put the light on it and it was set at 20-20 degrees and runs a lot better and passed emissions with flying colors. Never would of thought 20-22 degrees. 400 bored 60 over with a cam and edelbrock intake and 600cfm carb.

J&SBroncolvrs
06-01-2011, 05:16 PM
Totally agree with the timing. Set mine at around 12 degrees with a timing light, wouldn’t pass emissions. Set it by ear and then put the light on it and it was set at 20-20 degrees and runs a lot better and passed emissions with flying colors. Never would of thought 20-22 degrees. 400 bored 60 over with a cam and edelbrock intake and 600cfm carb.

the 20-22 I was referring to was Hg on the vaccuum guage, not degrees of timing, just to clarify.

Tango Chaser
10-31-2011, 09:27 AM
I used the Edelbrock power package minus the new aluminum heads. Cam, lifters, intake and carb. Engine came alive and felt like I swapped gears from 3"50 to 4:11. Mileage went from 15 to 9 though. That is without headers or a decent exahust.

nonni
03-10-2013, 04:29 PM
My 79 came with a stock 400M. I am in the works of replacing the carb and intake manifold which are just the first of many upgrades I got planned. I been reading a few good links on rebuilding the 400M and found one of them especially interesting.
http://www.classictrucks.com/tech/1002clt_ford_400m_engine_rebuild/viewall.html

They used a street carb, 600 cfm for that rebuild but I am waiting on my Holley Truck Avenger to arrive in the mail. The 770 CFM carb should fit well right from the bat, just replacing the garbage 2 barrel carb on the engine will make a world of difference. Also converting the rear brakes over to disc breaks. The potential for these monster Broncos was so severely reduced by a poor choice of vital parts, mainly due to stupid politics at the time when they were made.
At first I will be using an Edelbrock manifold I got with it when I bought it but later I might swap it out for a Weiand one, not sure at this point.
I am looking up articles on Camshafts and other parts to come up with the best solution in my build up. Plan on making mine into a kind of a expedition vehicle, capable of offroading anywhere but also comfy on the roads.

bmc69
03-11-2013, 08:26 AM
That "garbage" 2-barrel...the Motorcraft 2150..is actually well regarded and considered one of the best carbs ever. They are particular well suited to trail duty, having some of the best manners of any carb out there when tipped and jostled.


Just sayin'....:thumbup

InfoFord
03-11-2013, 10:58 AM
My 79 came with a stock 400M. I am in the works of replacing the carb and intake manifold which are just the first of many upgrades I got planned. I been reading a few good links on rebuilding the 400M and found one of them especially interesting.
http://www.classictrucks.com/tech/1002clt_ford_400m_engine_rebuild/viewall.html

They used a street carb, 600 cfm for that rebuild but I am waiting on my Holley Truck Avenger to arrive in the mail. The 770 CFM carb should fit well right from the bat, just replacing the garbage 2 barrel carb on the engine will make a world of difference. Also converting the rear brakes over to disc breaks. The potential for these monster Broncos was so severely reduced by a poor choice of vital parts, mainly due to stupid politics at the time when they were made.
At first I will be using an Edelbrock manifold I got with it when I bought it but later I might swap it out for a Weiand one, not sure at this point.
I am looking up articles on Camshafts and other parts to come up with the best solution in my build up. Plan on making mine into a kind of a expedition vehicle, capable of offroading anywhere but also comfy on the roads.

:histerica

speedyweasel
03-11-2013, 11:13 AM
Somebody has some more reading to do. Maybe in between games of Call of Duty.

You know what it REALLY needs is some nitrous. And a spoiler. And a BIG muffler. Maybe some stickers.

(I had to see if this was in the Flame Free n00b section before I posted.)

CBboots
03-11-2013, 04:53 PM
That "garbage" 2-barrel...the Motorcraft 2150..is actually well regarded and considered one of the best carbs ever. They are particular well suited to trail duty, having some of the best manners of any carb out there when tipped and jostled.

Just sayin'....:thumbup
That's true 'dog.

:histerica
Yo, wuz so funny dog?

You know what it REALLY needs is some nitrous. And a spoiler. And a BIG muffler. Maybe some stickers.

Yo dog, sitckers are kewl!!

Peacemaker1994
03-11-2013, 07:01 PM
i had a 79 with a 351/400m and it had a stroker kit, cam, worked heads and intake. those motors everyone puts down but you can get some power out of them if you want to. honestly though Windsor motors have a better lineup of choices for parts and options though. but a good start if your stickin with that motor is put a cam, intake, 4bbl, exhuast, headers, gears and itll be alright in my opinion. but to each his own

OX1
03-11-2013, 08:47 PM
Well realistically on a peice of paper number wise they do not seem like they would really do a hell of a lot, When you throw 351C 2v heads on

Do the 351C heads have hardened seats?

TheBlackDevil
03-11-2013, 09:11 PM
Drop a 460 in it.

















































THE END

slowmo934
03-12-2013, 09:06 PM
If price was not an option I would like to see how my 400 would act with an easy EFI kit from MSD. Would really like to know the performance and MPG stats running this setup on a 400 vs 650cfm edelbrock I have now.

bmc69
03-13-2013, 08:44 AM
When I converted one of mine from a 650 Demon carb to Commander EFI, I couldn't detect (butt dyno) any difference at all in the power output. Mileage remained about the same too, not that I really checked it much.

But then I didn't expect to see any changes in power or mileage; I converted to EFI for the much improved trail manners.

mrhp
03-21-2013, 06:45 PM
My new horse had some work done before I got it and previous owner does not know the whole story. 1978 bronco 400 edelbrock intake, 650 holley double pumper, c6 3.50 gears and 35 inch tires. It is supposed to have an "R.V." cam in it. Headers, duals, full M.S.D. ignition, and it runs good. Plenty of power and fuel economy seems around 10-13 mpg. Hard to tell as I do lots of short trips with it, but am planning a couple hour trip soon. The Holley really seems to have made a huge difference. I had a 79 bronco 25 years ago,400 c6 3.50 gears and 31 inch tires and this runs MUCH stronger than the last one. First one was all stock. I am running the Holley 4777 manual choke and mechanical secondaries. This carb is shockingly responsive on this heavy beast. Usually a heavy, large tire, high geared, auto trans vehicle does very poorly with a mechanical secondary carb. Not mine! I have the timing set at 14 initial, 38 total with my vacuum advance hooked to a ported source. No spark knock, and clean running. I was jetting the carb, and the stock jetting appears nearly perfect. I did however have to step up on the accelerator pump cam to overcome a lean hesitation on tip in. I can stab the throttle to the floor from an idle and there is no lag, or hesitation at all. It just accelerates and pulls good to 5000 rpm. That is where the trans shifts. I couldn't be happier. Hope it helps somebody.

BigWheelz
03-21-2013, 07:59 PM
Drop a 460 in it.

















































THE END

X2

Alvin in AZ
03-22-2013, 05:47 PM
http://www.classictrucks.com/tech/1002clt_ford_400m_engine_rebuild/viewall.html#

Don't trust anybody writing about the Ford 400 that puts an M behind it. ;)
Peacemaker's-slip was in a post on a forum, not an authoritative report. ;)

The URL's title even has 400M in it and all through the article.

Do they mention what the engine is for a car or truck or racing or what?

"Before running the motor in anger, we provided the new components plenty
of time to get acquainted, especially the rings and bearings." -magazine crap

LOL :)

"street racing's got to be easy, a street don't go all that fast xD"
-paraphrasing a cowboy making fun of his daughter's barrel racing

"a child can lay a credit card on a counter" -Alvin
"a child can mash down on a gas pedal" -Alvin
"the child with the most money to spend will win" -Alvin

--------------------

I say advance the 400's cam timing for real cheap and see what you got. :)
You'll get better gas mileage with a cam timing advance and at least it'll be
working that-way, instead of the other direction, like a 460 swap would.

But if power is all you want at any cost... x3 on the 460 swap.

Alvin in AZ

Sloride75
03-22-2013, 11:33 PM
To jump in this mix:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_9809_ford_406_engine_build/viewall.html

An older but great article on how to get 468 lb-ft out of a 400 on the cheap. Makes me want a 78/79 Bronc so bad...

Alvin in AZ
03-23-2013, 01:19 AM
To jump in this mix:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_9809_ford_406_engine_build/viewall.html
An older but great article on how to get 468 lb-ft out of a 400
on the cheap. Makes me want a 78/79 Bronc so bad...
Cool article. :) It was readable and everything sounded good to me
since they sorta "boxed in" their ideas/re-engineering concepts. :)

Alvin in AZ

Sloride75
03-23-2013, 10:54 AM
Cool article. :) It was readable and everything sounded good to me
since they sorta "boxed in" their ideas/re-engineering concepts. :)

Alvin in AZ

Agreed! I love the part about the guys' at the porsche shop's reaction! :beer

junkyardawg91
03-24-2013, 11:10 PM
OK, I'm looking for some serious help and advice and if you have some real information i will gladly listen. I just bought a 79 Bronco with the 351 in it. Ive also got my old motor which is a 400 out of my old 78 bronco. Im looking to build a motor and a bad ass one at that. I'm talking high torque, high hp, with little regard to mpg. I want this to be a motor worth bragging about.
Heres what Im thinking so far:

Edelbrock 600cfm carb kit with electric choke ( or should i go higher cfm?)
Edelbrock performer manifold
This cam kit below
http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp-Cams/249/K32-221-3/10002/-1
Operating Range: 1500-5500 RPM
Duration Advertised: 268° Intake / 268° Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' Lift: 218° Intake / 218° Exhaust
Valve Lift w/1.73 Rockers: .494'' Intake / .494'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle: 110°

Not quite sure what to do about the heads... leave them stock, have them rebuilt, go performer? how much change will their be between stock and performer. Thats at least a 1600$ upgrade that if sacrificable with little change, i will not do.

use the stock crank? what type of oil pump? and anyone have good suggestions for pistons, rings, and bearings?

what upgrades am i missing.

help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alvin in AZ
03-25-2013, 02:36 AM
OK, I'm looking for some serious help and advice and if you have some real information i will gladly listen.
Did you read this SlowRide posted and did you take notes? ;)
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_9809_ford_406_engine_build/viewall.html

There's a website forum dedicated to the Ford 6, is there one for the 335 series?

Butthead in AZ

speedyweasel
03-25-2013, 02:05 PM
OK, I'm looking for some serious help and advice and if you have some real information i will gladly listen. I just bought a 79 Bronco with the 351 in it. Ive also got my old motor which is a 400 out of my old 78 bronco. Im looking to build a motor and a bad ass one at that. I'm talking high torque, high hp, with little regard to mpg. I want this to be a motor worth bragging about.
Heres what Im thinking so far:

Edelbrock 600cfm carb kit with electric choke ( or should i go higher cfm?)
Edelbrock performer manifold
This cam kit below
http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp-Cams/249/K32-221-3/10002/-1
Operating Range: 1500-5500 RPM
Duration Advertised: 268° Intake / 268° Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' Lift: 218° Intake / 218° Exhaust
Valve Lift w/1.73 Rockers: .494'' Intake / .494'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle: 110°

Not quite sure what to do about the heads... leave them stock, have them rebuilt, go performer? how much change will their be between stock and performer. Thats at least a 1600$ upgrade that if sacrificable with little change, i will not do.

use the stock crank? what type of oil pump? and anyone have good suggestions for pistons, rings, and bearings?

what upgrades am i missing.

help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, the good news for you is this forum is equipped with a "SEARCH" function. The recommendations are all over the map... but at the risk of asking a silly, threadjacking response, why are you trying to turn a 400 into a firebreathing monster? Why not go the easy route and dump your money into a raced-out 385-series engine? I mean - if mileage is no concern and all you want is raw power, why are you looking at a small block?

Ah, yes... your first post was a Copy/Paste job in a tech forum asking if a camshaft you don't own will make your SBF pretend it's in a monster truck... never mind.

If you genuinely want to use the 335-series, spend a few hours getting to know the site and reading some great material (http://www.tmeyerinc.com/400ford.html) from others who've done it before.

junkyardawg91
03-26-2013, 12:12 AM
Well, the good news for you is this forum is equipped with a "SEARCH" function. The recommendations are all over the map... but at the risk of asking a silly, threadjacking response, why are you trying to turn a 400 into a firebreathing monster? Why not go the easy route and dump your money into a raced-out 385-series engine? I mean - if mileage is no concern and all you want is raw power, why are you looking at a small block?

Ah, yes... your first post was a Copy/Paste job in a tech forum asking if a camshaft you don't own will make your SBF pretend it's in a monster truck... never mind.

If you genuinely want to use the 335-series, spend a few hours getting to know the site and reading some great material (http://www.tmeyerinc.com/400ford.html) from others who've done it before.

mostly want to use this motor because i was sure it would bolt right to the tranny that is currently holding a stock 351. on top of that, the 400 motor i picked up for 50$ and its the cheapest starting point im bound to find. so, im not trying to build a street demon just trying to make a bronco thats capable of burning rubber and eating pits. Ive been around the block with the 400 before and im familiar with it also. if your a small block hater its fine with me but ive known this motor to do some nasty things. on your comment with the cams, a cam job is the easiest way to add torque and hp to the motor, but overcamming isnt going to do any good. just wanted to make sure i wasnt going to go to extreme. lighten up mf

BigBud
03-26-2013, 02:12 AM
If you can find some 70-72 400 heads that cam and intake will make a nice powerful engine. If not at least get your block and heads milled to bring up the compression. That cam is far from extreme. I ran a 70 400 for a year before deciding to step up to the 460. Just FYI the 460 will bolt to your trans and there are adapter engine mounts.

zeus78
04-07-2013, 12:54 PM
Been a while since I've visited this site, read this whole thread and enjoyed every second of it. I believe I have a few things to add.
The 351m/400m is a fine motor..........for street applications. Ford did, in my opinion, a good job of putting stout motors in these broncos and trucks given the emissions issues they had to deal with. But again, those two motors are pretty good for what the trucks were designed to do off the showroom floor. Some people won't believe this but ford didn't design the truck, engine, axles or transmissions for extreme offroad use with big tires. The front axle is good for 33" tires with open differentials. With that combination you can do quite well with the M's.
Now, I loved my 351m from the second I bought it, I was a bit naive but it had really good power but I'm a guy, and guys want more. I added a performer intake, 600 carb, 4.10/11:1 gears, lockers headers and dual pipes with flowmasters. That bronco was awesome. I could get down the road in a hurry and I did okay in moderate mud.
here's the problem and this is something I haven't seen posted in any of the 6 pages worth of good posts in this thread. Add 35" aggressive tires and get in some deeper mud and you might as well get the tow strap out because you ain't gonna make it to the other side. Once those lugs fill up with mud and the goo gets thick it is like someone turned the fuel pressure way down. The motor totally runs out of grunt. In my opinion I had some really good mods on that motor, everything except great heads and a 400m bottom end. That stuff costs more money than I wanted to spend.
So, in went a 71 lincoln 460 bored. 030. It has all the same goodies that I had on the m plus an upgraded cam. The motor was in pieces when it fell in my lap (not literally) but I had it machined and checked, bolted it together (first time I ever attempted this), threw it in the bronco with L and L mounts, bolted on a 750 ebrock and a big radiator and I will never look back. Now I need bigger axles and tires. The wife is just thrilled the I want to dump more money into my toy.
Bottom line, if you are only using it for street than do the upgrades I did to my M but if you wan't to get serious with it than you're only going to be satisfied if you put a 385 series motor in there.
That's just my opinion, take it however you like.

madtorq
04-17-2013, 01:17 PM
460s can be had for cheap enough and the swap is really easier than most people think.... your mpg will go up also.....

speedyweasel
04-17-2013, 01:19 PM
your mpg will go up also.....

Then you're doing something very, very wrong.

madtorq
04-17-2013, 04:21 PM
No, it really did. It went from 7mpg to about 10mpg around town. I think the big motor does not have to work as hard?

TheBlackDevil
04-18-2013, 08:56 PM
No, you ditched the fat girlfriend and got you a skinnier girlfriend. HAHA.

madtorq
04-19-2013, 06:23 PM
haha, no fat chicks!