Well now that I have my new Millermatic 175 on the way I needed to add a 240V plug. While I'm at it I decided it would be a good time to wire my garage for lights and extra 20Amp plugs. I will do the hard stuff and have a neighbor(electrician) do the final connections to the main panel and double check my work. I will also apply for a permit to make it all legal.

I started by checking my main panel which is a 200Amp service with two spots left. I installed a 125Amp sub panel after exploring what was behind the drywall and ran 1/2" flex between them. I used 8 guage wire but haven't hooked it up (I will leave that to my neighbor).
http://www.tophersworld.com/images/garage_wire_001.jpg

I then ran the 1/2" flex up the wall and across the rafters to the center and installed the first plug. From there I went to the opposite side and back to where I wanted the second plug.
http://www.tophersworld.com/images/garage_wire_003.jpg

I made a junction box so I could continue the flex to where I wanted the switch and run the flex to the second plug.
http://www.tophersworld.com/images/garage_wire_002.jpg

I installed the first two of four shop lights.
http://www.tophersworld.com/images/garage_wire_004.jpg

Next weekend I plan on installing the next two lights and the 240V plug plus a few 120 plugs. I will then apply for the permit and have my neighbor wire to the main.

8 Ga for 125 Amps is nowhere near large enough. Try 4. They use 2/0 for 200 amps if it is less that 6-8 feet and that is because you can under size the wire if close enought to the panel.

I suppose it doesn't get that cold there.............but cold start ballasts are the only way to go IMO.

I guess it's just me but I wouldn't limit yourself to 30A 220. While you're doing it the cost is minimal to step up to 50A and run 6ga, then you're good for any future equipment you might stumble upon. My plasma requires a 50A circuit.......

You put 4 #8's in a 1/2" flex? That's an achievement.
Even if that wire fit, you've limited your 125a panel to 40a.
I'd put in 1-1/4" from the service panel to the sub so you can upsize the conductors when the need for power goes up.
I'm sure your electrician neighbor will help you get it straightened out.

Thanks for the advice, that was what I was looking for. I think I will up it to #6 and get a 50 amp breaker just in case. I have some 3/4" flex I hope I can squeeze it in there.

My trick for getting 4-8's in the 1/2" flex was put it in the hole, push the wires through then bend it back. It was still a real tight fit.

My trick for getting 4-8's in the 1/2" flex was put it in the hole, push the wires through then bend it back. It was still a real tight fit.

You are going to have a fire in the future.

Not only does that not meet code, it's an outright hazard. Conduit is sized so your wire can breath and cool. With all the wire you have running through that tiny conduit, the insulation is going to overheat and go away, you will eventually arc out.

Electricity is like water (don't mix them), but it's going to take the path of least resistance. Therefore oversize your conductors (wire) a bit, and you will have no trouble.

Just put in a 100 amp breaker in the main box and then put this sub panel (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=37748-76863-TLM1212CCUGK&lpage=none) in. Then you will have more than enough room for expansion and power. Just remember that you have to pull the ground and neutral to the sub panel and remove the bar connecting the two busses in the sub panel.

Thanks Rob. That's why I posted it here. I knew I would be shown the error of my ways. I won't touch the main panel. I'll leave that up to him. I just wanted to do as much as I was comfortable with by myself.

I think the 50 amps will be more than enough. I'll seak out some thicker guage cable this weekend. In fact there is an Electrical place the contracters at my work go to so I'll stop by. HD only goes to #8 at least at my store.

Now one question, what about the 1/2" pop-out I popped out? Just leave it out?

No, they make a pop-out replacement you can put in it. It just pushes in and snaps into place. You don't want people sticking stuff in there

No, they make a pop-out replacement you can put in it. It just pushes in and snaps into place. You don't want people sticking stuff in there
Yeah because most guys see an open hole and have to stick something in it as soon as they can

How big is this garage? 'Cause me thinks you're gonna wish for more than one 240V outlet. At least do two, one on each side of the truck. No need for a second breaker of course, just run another outlet down the line, just like 120V

That's a good Idea. I can always add another one later.

I know that they call those flourescent fixtures that you're using "shop lights", but they are actually pretty bad for use in a real shop. The reason I say that is they have a pronounced 60 Hz flicker. If all of the fixtures in the shop are powered off of the same light switch, then they are all off of the same power phase. This makes them all flicker in unison, which in turn can cause some significant eye strain. It actually gives me headaches to be around improperly wired flourescents. But even more importantly than that, it also causes a phenomonon called the stroboscopic effect. Essentially it can make any rotating machinery like a saw or drill press appear to be stopped when it is actually running. Sometimes it will look like the machine is slowly rolling backwards. I know some of you think this is BS, but I've seen it happen. Back when I was in the Navy a guy I knew had a hand ****led when he touched the shaft of a rotating condensate pump. The next day after the accident I went down and took a look at the pump and sure as the world, it looked like the shaft was sitting still. Even though it was well lit, it if you shined a flashlight on it you could tell it was turning, turn off the flashlift and it looked stopped. Stroboscopic effect.

Anyway, to prevent this good quality fixtures have half the bulbs in the fixture powered by one phase and the other half off another phase. This causes them to flicker out of sync with each other, and thereby defeats the stroboscopic effect. For my shop I opted for a bunch of incandescent lights, just thought it was safer.

Oh, congrats on the new welder. That's one of the ones I've been considering myself. You might consider going ahead and wiring in another 220v outlet wherever you have you air compressor in case you decide to upgrade to a bigger one in the future. It would be an easy thing to do now, harder to do later.

I just moved and the previous owner of my new place was fond of those "shop lights." In fact there's three in the basement here as I type this. I don't notice any flicker, so it may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, but I think your point is plausible.

That said, there are also two of these lights in my garage and I think they're garbage for shop use. They don't put out that much light, and I know once winter rolls around they're gonna be slow to warm up at best. The garage is currently getting 8ft fixtures from Home Depot which I used in my previous shop w good results. The 8ft units are made by Lithonia, cold start, and take two 110W bulbs. Just one of those fixtures kicks the shit out of two of the lesser "shop lights" and the incandescents on both garage door openers combined. They run around $54 at Home Depot now, not including bulbs of course. I had 8 of them in my old 800sq ft shop and they worked great for 2.5 years, even in single digits. The only time they had an issue was when they actually overheated during a very hot day when I left the shop all closed up. Once they cooled down they came back fine.

In a home too much light is obnoxious, but in a shop it's damn near impossible to have too much light.

Thanks for the info guys.

I almost forgot about the air compressor. It was originally 240 and my dad converted it to 110 for me. It doesn't seem to work as well so I planned on converting it back.

I have one of the shop lights now (cheap HD model) While it doesn't have good reflectors to bounce down the light, it does a pretty good job for what it is. Gotta save money somewhere. It only gets down to the low 40's in the winter rarely does it go below freezing.

It's a 2 car garage with 10 foot rafters.

That subpanel wiring is definitely a hazard. The rest looks OK, as long as you didn't do that "pull the wires through THEN bend it" trick anywhere else.

8AWG is VERY undersized for a 125A panel. I'd rewire it right now, before you kick yourself later for limiting your capacity. The biggest commonly available breaker I've seen for the main box is 100A, and I've used several. To get 100A to your subpanel, you need to use 2AWG wire.

...Anyway, to prevent this good quality fixtures have half the bulbs in the fixture powered by one phase and the other half off another phase...
Not in the home. With very rare exceptions (farms, usually), almost all homes are wired on single phase power. People mistakenly refer to the two sides of a home 220 circuit as being different phases, but they are in fact a single phase, just opposite polarity. With normal home wiring, there is NO way to separate the harmonic flicker you describe out, aside from using incandescents as you did.

...The 8ft units are made by Lithonia, cold start, and take two 110W bulbs. Just one of those fixtures kicks the shit out of two of the lesser "shop lights" and the incandescents on both garage door openers combined. They run around $54 at Home Depot now, not including bulbs of course...
These sound identical to the lights I'm using. Absolutely wonderful. Right now I'm running two in my metalworking bay, and only one per bay in the rest, and can still see great.

8 Ga for 125 Amps is nowhere near large enough. Try 4. They use 2/0 for 200 amps if it is less that 6-8 feet and that is because you can under size the wire if close enought to the panel.

Incorrect. You can NEVER undersize the wire. When you do that, all you are doing is turning your wire into a fuse, because it will burn in two before the breaker trips.

Incorrect. You can NEVER undersize the wire. When you do that, all you are doing is turning your wire into a fuse, because it will burn in two before the breaker trips.

I hope this is sarcasm.

If not, I gotta call :bs on this.

On a additional note (maybe too late for the thread starter) when calculating wire size to use, base it on the 120 current draw and not the 240.

I hope this is sarcasm.

If not, I gotta call :bs on this.

On a additional note (maybe too late for the thread starter) when calculating wire size to use, base it on the 120 current draw and not the 240.

Fuse- A safety device that protects an electric circuit from excessive current, consisting of or containing a metal element that melts when current exceeds a specific amperage, thereby opening the circuit.

So, if you have overcurrent protection rated at 100 amps, but it is protecting a wire that has an ampacity of 50 amps, the wire will melt before the overcurrent protection can work. Thereby in essence, turning your wire into the fuse.

On a additional note (maybe too late for the thread starter) when calculating wire size to use, base it on the 120 current draw and not the 240.

Incorrect as well.

You calculate for the application.

Example: Your typical clothes dryer is 240V 30 amps. 10 gauge wire. Using PIE, that works out to about 7200 watts. If you assume 120V to calculate the wire size, you'll need a 60 amp breaker, and 4 gauge wire.

Thanks guys I think I have got the idea down. I didn't do anything last weekend but I plan on yanking the wires from the sub panel to the main.

I posted the box as 128 Amps since that is what it is rated at but I don't intend to go that high.

I will replace the 8 guage wires with 6 guage and keep the 30 amp 240 V breaker and two 120 V 20 Amp breakers in the sub panel. I will get a short length of 1 1/4" flex and connectors. I don't want to burn down my garage but I also don't see the need to go past 30 amps for the 240V plug.

I will talk to my neighbor also to get his unput to make sure it meets code.

I was talking about running 6ga to your 240 outlet. If you just run 6ga to your subpanel you're only good for 50A total draw, which really ain't that much. But so long as you never have more than a couple lights on and are running your welder, you'll probably be ok. But if you want to be running lights, a TV or radio... maybe you have a fridge plugged in out there.......then your buddy comes over and fires up a grinder while you're welding........you're gonna be real close to that 50A threshold.

Incorrect as well.

You calculate for the application.

Example: Your typical clothes dryer is 240V 30 amps. 10 gauge wire. Using PIE, that works out to about 7200 watts. If you assume 120V to calculate the wire size, you'll need a 60 amp breaker, and 4 gauge wire.


Actually, that is exactly my point, the 120 equivalent would require larger wire. Thus, my suggestion to make wire size calculations taking into account maximum 120 current draw as well as 240.

As far as the wire thing, it isn't a fuse because it isn't an approved safety device and there is no guarantee the the copper will melt before a short starts a fire.

Edit: Plus, you aren't considering ambient temperature and its effect on resistance of the conductor which will be different in an attic in the summer vs. the winter or Alaska vs. South Florida.

Actually, that is exactly my point, the 120 equivalent would require larger wire. Thus, my suggestion to make wire size calculations taking into account maximum 120 current draw as well as 240...
But you're not running the 120V equivalent. If you're running a 30A 240V appliance (drier, welder, whatever), it's going to draw 30A at 240V, not 60A at 120V. There's no reason to oversize the circuit for that.

What you're talking about would basically be sizing the wire for the power of the piece of equipment used. Power doesn't matter, only current. If wire were sized for power transmitted, then high voltage (100KV and up, for example) transmission lines would probably have to be the size of suspension bridge cables. :duh

Its not oversizing it. I've seen guys overlook 120v equipment needs and only look at the 240v stuff and as a result go with 8 gauge when the should have gone with 6 or gone with 6 when the should have gone with 4.

I have never flunked an electrical inspection.

Furthermore, the mentality of wire being a fuse is completely idiotic and maybe that is why there are so many electrical fires. This thread reminds me of those guys in Arkansas a couple of years ago that used a .22 LR for a fuse in their truck and one of them got his nads blown off.

Its not oversizing it. I've seen guys overlook 120v equipment needs and only look at the 240v stuff and as a result go with 8 gauge when the should have gone with 6 or gone with 6 when the should have gone with 4.

I have never flunked an electrical inspection.

Furthermore, the mentality of wire being a fuse is completely idiotic and maybe that is why there are so many electrical fires. This thread reminds me of those guys in Arkansas a couple of years ago that used a .22 LR for a fuse in their truck and one of them got his nads blown off.
Alright, I misunderstood a little of what you were trying to say. I was talking about branch circuit wiring, and you're talking about sizing the feeder circuit.

There are two philosophies to sizing the feeder.

The first way is to size it so that you can run absolutely all the branch circuits at full rated power. When doing this, it is important to proportion your branch circuits between the two polarities in the feeder panel so that they're evenly distributed. For instance, let's say you wanted one 30A @ 240V circuit, and two 20A @ 120V circuits. As long as you place one of the 120V circuits on each polarity (the 240V circuit draws across both), you can run all three circuits at full rated load on a 50A @ 240V feeder supply. If you were to put both 120V circuits on the same polarity output, you would need a 70A supply to do the same job, and you would've wasted money and headache on installing a bigger service to your subpanel than you needed.

Honestly, this is the way I tend to size subpanels for my personal use. Then again, both of my "subpanels" are full size main panels supplied at 200A off a common 200A main panel. In my case, I can power 200A @ 240V through either subpanel as long as the other subpanel has zero load, but the total load on the two subpanels cannot exceed 200A together -- or they'd trip the main breaker in the main panel. My system is VERY overengineered, however, just because it's the way I wanted it done and I wanted to leave myself a LOT of flexibility to expand without having to make major changes to do so. I've definitely taken advantages of this flexibility too.

The second (and more economical way) is to size the feeder for your subpanel based on the total estimated load. Though it's more economical, it will also require you to make a good estimate of your needs. Essentially, figure out the highest rated combination of loads you might possibly want to run off that feeder. For instance, let's say you want to be able to simultaneously run:


Two space heaters @ 1500W each (or one big A/C) = 3000W
One small arc welder that requires 30A@240V = 7200W
Six of those good flourescent shop light bulbs at 110W each = 660W
Two halogen work lamps at 500W each = 1000W
One incandescent droplight at 75W
One reasonably heavy duty drill or grinder, 10A @ 120V = 1200W
And your little 25gal air compressor decides to kick on in the middle of this: 15A@120V = 1800W

Based on experience, that's a list of things I could easily see myself using at once personally -- all it takes is one person welding while someone else is prepping, cutting, or grinding parts, and that's a fairly common situation around my place.

Multiply anything with a motor by about 1.2 (this is just my number, there's an official version in the code that's more accurate) to cover the blip of extra current on startup, and add 'em all up. I'm going to assume we're running the little portable space heaters with a blower.
(1.2*3000W) + 7200W + 660W + 1000W + 75W + (1.2*1200W) + (1.2*1800W) = 16,135W

Now, you can power all that off a 240V feeder, and you'll get the smallest feeder requirement if the loads are split dead even between polarities. But what are the odds that's going to happen? You might just happen to have the grinder, air compressor, and shop heaters on the same polarity. You should throw in an extra factor (I'd say around 1.2 to 1.5) to account for the fact that when you're working and plugging things in, you aren't going to be thinking about balancing loads. I'm going to use 1.3.

16,135W * 1.3 = 20,975.5W.

The current requirement on a 240V supply will be 20,975.5W/240V = 87.4A. I would run this subpanel on a 100A breaker. If your list of things you want to be able to use at once is smaller, you'll get a smaller number here -- but you can be reasonably sure if you follow this method that you can run the things you want without throwing the breaker or creating a hazard.

The beauty of going about it this way is that you can fill that subpanel with 120V or 240V branch circuits if you want -- however many it takes to have a separate branch circuit wherever you want one or it's convenient. However, the number you get for how big a supply you need will always be less than the sum of all the breakers. If it's not, then the number of branch circuits you were planning to install wouldn't have been enough to run what you want anyway.

As for never flunking an electrical inspection -- no one ever fails for being overengineered. I can't say squat, since all my stuff is intentionally overbuilt too. :thumbup

Its not oversizing it. I've seen guys overlook 120v equipment needs and only look at the 240v stuff and as a result go with 8 gauge when the should have gone with 6 or gone with 6 when the should have gone with 4.

My point exactly. You calculate the size based on application. They obviously did not.

I have never flunked an electrical inspection.

I have. Once. The plumber decided to take my nail guards down and use them as his own.

Furthermore, the mentality of wire being a fuse is completely idiotic and maybe that is why there are so many electrical fires. This thread reminds me of those guys in Arkansas a couple of years ago that used a .22 LR for a fuse in their truck and one of them got his nads blown off.

Umm, my point was that your wire becoming the weak point in the circuit (the fuse, if you will) is most definately NOT a good thing. Argue the point as you will, when your wire burns in two before your protection trips, you have just created a fuse. It is a fuse by simple definition, not by application.

We're both saying the same thing, namely that you need to have your wire size and overcurrent protection correct. As a buddy of mine used to tell potential homeowner-electricians, "what's the worst that can happen? You burn your house down and kill your family?"

Essentially, figure out the highest rated combination of loads you might possibly want to run off that feeder. For instance, let's say you want to be able to simultaneously run:


Two space heaters @ 1500W each (or one big A/C) = 3000W
One small arc welder that requires 30A@240V = 7200W
Six of those good flourescent shop light bulbs at 110W each = 660W
Two halogen work lamps at 500W each = 1000W
One incandescent droplight at 75W
One reasonably heavy duty drill or grinder, 10A @ 120V = 1200W
And your little 25gal air compressor decides to kick on in the middle of this: 15A@120V = 1800W

Based on experience, that's a list of things I could easily see myself using at once personally -- all it takes is one person welding while someone else is prepping, cutting, or grinding parts, and that's a fairly common situation around my place.

Multiply anything with a motor by about 1.2 (this is just my number, there's an official version in the code that's more accurate) to cover the blip of extra current on startup, and add 'em all up. I'm going to assume we're running the little portable space heaters with a blower.
(1.2*3000W) + 7200W + 660W + 1000W + 75W + (1.2*1200W) + (1.2*1800W) = 16,135W

Now, you can power all that off a 240V feeder, and you'll get the smallest feeder requirement if the loads are split dead even between polarities. But what are the odds that's going to happen? You might just happen to have the grinder, air compressor, and shop heaters on the same polarity. You should throw in an extra factor (I'd say around 1.2 to 1.5) to account for the fact that when you're working and plugging things in, you aren't going to be thinking about balancing loads. I'm going to use 1.3.

16,135W * 1.3 = 20,975.5W.

The current requirement on a 240V supply will be 20,975.5W/240V = 87.4A. I would run this subpanel on a 100A breaker. If your list of things you want to be able to use at once is smaller, you'll get a smaller number here -- but you can be reasonably sure if you follow this method that you can run the things you want without throwing the breaker or creating a hazard.

The beauty of going about it this way is that you can fill that subpanel with 120V or 240V branch circuits if you want -- however many it takes to have a separate branch circuit wherever you want one or it's convenient. However, the number you get for how big a supply you need will always be less than the sum of all the breakers. If it's not, then the number of branch circuits you were planning to install wouldn't have been enough to run what you want anyway.

As for never flunking an electrical inspection -- no one ever fails for being overengineered. I can't say squat, since all my stuff is intentionally overbuilt too. :thumbup

Thank you for figureing that all out. Ill have to remember that for when I finally own my own house.

Thanks guys, I hope this is helping others wanting to do this but don’t ask and risk burning down the house. I’d rather feel a little foolish asking you than trying to explain to the insurance inspector why I did it that way.

Ok so from everything I’ve read here this is what I’m thinking.

The house was built in 1994.
Looking at the main panel it is 200 amp service but the main breaker is only 100 amps
It is located in the center of the box. I can take pics if needed.

Now I have more questions than before.
If I add the 240V breaker to the bottom two spots on the panel will it draw through the main? Does that mean the 100amp main will need to be replaced with a 200amp breaker and move the 100 to the bottom spot?

Move the 50 amp 240 DP breaker to the sub panel (not placed but purchased)
Get a 100 Amp 240 DP breaker for the main (or 200, see above)
4 guage wire, 1 ¼” flex from box to box.
6 guage wire, ¾” flex from box to 240V plug(s)
½” knockout snap in

I usually use the kill a fly with a sledge hammer approach; I don’t know why I was thinking different on this. For some reason I haven’t seen my neighbor since I started this but I would rather make it look like I half way knew what I was doing when I ask him to hook up the main.

Looking at the main panel it is 200 amp service but the main breaker is only 100 amps
It is located in the center of the box. I can take pics if needed.

Now I have more questions than before.
If I add the 240V breaker to the bottom two spots on the panel will it draw through the main? Does that mean the 100amp main will need to be replaced with a 200amp breaker and move the 100 to the bottom spot?

Move the 50 amp 240 DP breaker to the sub panel (not placed but purchased)
Get a 100 Amp 240 DP breaker for the main (or 200, see above)


Um, I don't fully understand your questions but I think you're confusing amps w volts.

If you add a 240V breaker to the bottom of your main panel, it will draw thru the main panel, yes. It will draw thru the 100A breaker at the top of the main panel.

NO, do not replace your 100A breaker with a 200A breaker. Why? 'Cause breakers must ALWAYS be sized to the wire which supplies them. Your 100A breaker is probably fed (underground in a trench w your utilities) by 2ga. If you throw a 200A breaker in there, you could theoretically pull 200A thru that panel, but the 2ga won't handle it.

Remember, you've got volts........in this case you're gonna always be dealing w 120 or 240. Then at any given voltage you can pull (or I should say whatever you plug in can pull) a certain number of amps. More amps = more draw = larger wire required.

You'll very rarely see 120V breakers larger than 20A. RV plugs will go up to 30A. This is because above 20A it becomes relatively expensive to run anything 120V (watch that meter spin), stepping up to 240V cuts your amp draw in half. Something that pulls 20A on 120V will pull 10A on 240V. Also motors can become inefficient if forced to run at lesser voltages and thus having to pull more amps.

One more thing: amps is amps regardless of voltage when it comes to wire size. You can pull 20A on 120V or 240V thru the same size wire. It may not seem intuitive at first, but that's the deal.

So, amps are always your main concern for safe wiring. 120V or 240V is simply dictated by what you need to plug in. Some motors will run on either but we don't need to go into that now.

If you wanna know how many amps something draws, look for a sticker. It'll either be labeled as "A" or as watts. If it only gives you watts, then divide watts by volts (120 or 240) to get amps.

These are the broad strokes in simple terms as described by a lay person.

See that's what is throwing me off. Amps is Amps, but now you double the volts and amps are cut in half so Amps is not longer Amps. :banghead

So the 200Amp rating on the service panel is rated at 120 volts and the reason the main breaker is 100Amps is because it's 240V?

No, amps is amps is amps. Sounds like you've got 200A service off your pole from the electric company but only 100A service to your house (this is completely normal). You could run 200A to your house w the appropriate cable, but most homes don't need this. Generally the extra capacity is there for a shop or second home, so you'd split off your meter w 100A to the house and 100A to the shop, or similar.

But amps is amps. You can only pull 100A total amps thru your main panel right now. It doesn't matter if it's being pulled by things that require 120V or 240V. It could be a combination, for instance your clothes dryer is almost surely 240V. Let's say your clothes dryer might pull 20A when it's running. If it were somehow to be running on 120V it would require 40A, so it just eats into your 100 total available more.

In our area all service entrance wires are supposed to be rated at 200amps. If you look at the wire coming from the street it doesn't look that big but you must remember that the wire is outside. AC voltage naturally cools itself so outside wire doesn't need to be as large, as it's theoretically air cooled. In a home however the wire is in walls conduits etc and gets warm. The problem with too many amps in an undersized wire isn't the wire burning, it's the outer insulation burning from the heat generated by the wire once the insulation is gone the wire is now exposed which is what causes the fire.

Not to oversimplify but think of electric as water. Voltage would be pressure and amps would be flow (gallons per minute)
240 psi is more than 120 psi its just a measure of the force. 30 gpm at 240psi or 30gpm at 120 psi is still the same amount of gallons just with more or less force behind it.
If you have a small hose that was rated to handle 240psi and 10gpm the hose would be too small to allow another 20gallons of water per minute through it. So you would have to increase the size of the hose to allow more gallons to flow through to reach 30gpm. Wire size is the same way they will all handle 120v or 240v but you must increase the size of the wire to match the amperage. More amperage would be more flow. 30amps only requires 10 gauge wire, 20amps is 12 gauge and 15 amps is 14 gauge. The voltage doesn't affect the wire size. A 6 gauge three wire run should be able to handle 60 to 70 amps and still pass inspection depending on how long the run is.
I probably would have run two circuits one for the 240 appliances and another for the 120 outlets and lights.
This is very general and I know primary wires are rated for voltage as well as amperage but thats usually above 600volts. I hope this helped a little and didn't confuse anyone anymore.

The resistance of the copper is ~0.200 ohm per thousand feet for a #1 wire, ~0.500 for a #6. Resistance/voltage drop doesn't really factor in for a 6' conductor feeding a sub-panel, or a 50' branch circuit. I've run 1800' branch circuits for 120v outlets and used #8, mostly due to the fact #12's and #10's weren't physically strong enough to pull that far... they break.

This response is not meant to be argumentative but I did say that it was a very general answer.
Now I do have a question for you. Why would you have branch circuits eighteen hundred feet long? I would have thought there would have been subpanels. I don't do industrial wiring just residential and light commercial for existing and new HVAC installs so I'm just curious. That seems like a hella long run.

This response is not meant to be argumentative but I did say that it was a very general answer.
Now I do have a question for you. Why would you have branch circuits eighteen hundred feet long? I would have thought there would have been subpanels. I don't do industrial wiring just residential and light commercial for existing and new HVAC installs so I'm just curious. That seems like a hella long run.
Places like dams, paper mills, powerplants are big. It's not unusal to run 1/4 mile or more to power up a security camera or a helicopter landing beacon, gate controller, any of a number of things that wouldn't need a panel to feed.
You're not argumentative, that's my job heheheh.

Well it's been a couple months and while the electrician up the street has flaked on me more than one time I finally had B-Man’s dad who is an electrician take a look at what I had and get me moving in the right direction.

The Sub Panel has been wired along with a new 220V plug for my welder. I still need to recover it with 5/8” sheetrock. I have almost a full sheet of ½” go figure.
http://www.tophersworld.com/images/garage_wire_006.jpg

I relocated the switch for the overhead lights to the other side of the door and moved the garage door opener next to it.
http://www.tophersworld.com/images/garage_wire_007.jpg

The new lights are brighter than having the door open in the middle of the day.
http://www.tophersworld.com/images/garage_wire_008.jpg

I still will add a few plugs to the east side of the garage. I’m just happy with what I have so far.