View Full Version : Ford has problems with the 6.0


scheki
08-21-2003, 11:44 PM
Check this out, I read about in today Detroit Free Press.
Its sucks that this is happing.

Auto news


VEHICLE DEPENDABILITY: Power Stroke diesel engine woes annoying Ford's loyal customers

Automaker tries to soothe angry nerves
August 20, 2003



Ten months after it rolled out a diesel engine for heavy-duty pickups, Ford Motor Co. faces a chorus of quality complaints from owners who are among the company's most loyal customers.

The 6-liter Power Stroke diesel V8, built by a unit of Navistar for Ford, commands nearly half the U.S. market for diesel pickups. But a raft of problems and repeat trips to dealerships for repairs has left some owners upset, threatening Ford's efforts to rebuild a reputation for quality vehicles.

"You don't know when the truck's going to go or not," said Matt Steffen, a F-250 Power Stroke owner in Florida. "You can step on the gas one day and it will go really well, and the next day you step on the gas and it won't go at all."

Soon after the new engines went on sale in November in heavy-duty Ford pickups and the Ford Excursion sport-utility vehicle, owners started reporting problems. Among the costliest is diesel fuel seeping into the engine's oil supply in amounts large enough to ruin the engine.

Other complaints included engines that ran roughly or stalled, lack of power at low speeds and harsh shifts. The complaints caused Ford to announce a recall of the Power Stroke in April to reprogram the engine's computer controls and replace a fuel injection sensor.

Even after the recall, several owners continued to have problems. After promising fixes in April, Ford now contends the problems should be solved soon, and that only a small fraction of Power Stroke owners have had any trouble.

Ford has even taken the step of buying back an undisclosed number of trucks to appease angry customers, a rare move automakers usually don't make unless forced by state law.

"We're sorry that it happened," Roman Krygier, Ford's group vice president for manufacturing and quality, said. "We think those problems are behind us."

Pickup trucks are the only part of the U.S. market in which diesel engines have been popular. In recent years, General Motors Corp. and DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group have beefed up their diesel pickups to better compete against Ford, and Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. is considering a diesel version of its Titan truck due out in December.

But Ford expected to maintain, if not build, on its market share when the 6-liter Power Stroke was launched. The engine produces 320 horsepower and 560 pound-feet of torque, giving some pickup models enough power to tow nearly 7 tons, while meeting tougher federal emissions rules ahead of schedule.

This year, Ford expects to sell about 260,000 Power Stroke-equipped pickups, which start at $27,000 and can reach nearly $50,000 when loaded with options. Ford Division President Steve Lyons said in July that the automaker's incentives on diesel trucks are well below competitors' "because our diesel engine is as well-received in the marketplace as it is.

"We dominate this business, and it is because the product is extremely strong," he said.

Many Ford diesel customers swear by their trucks, which are usually used as work vehicles or for hauling camping trailers or boats. While it's common for a small number of new-vehicle owners to complain, the volume and persistence of chatter about Power Stroke troubles on Internet chat rooms is unusual.

That could be a reflection of the owners. J.D. Power and Associates research shows heavy-duty truck customers place a higher priority on reliability than any other type of vehicle buyer.

Two Power Stroke owners who asked not to be named because they were still negotiating buyback deals with Ford said their trucks had a string of problems that couldn't be fixed. One owner in the West had his truck in the shop for more than six weeks.

"I wound up being used as the guinea pig, or I felt like it, trying to get my truck fixed," he said. "I just got to the end of my rope."

"This experience has changed my attitude toward Ford dramatically," said another owner whose F-250 was in for repairs six times before Ford bought it back. "I have lost all confidence in Ford's engineering department and think they should have never released a product with known issues."

Updating computer software
To address the complaints, Ford has issued three updates for the software in the engine's computers since February. It has two more updates planned in a few weeks to address rough idling and how the engines adjust to air-conditioning loads.

Ford spokesman Glenn Ray said the company believes the updates will cure most of the drivability complaints from owners and that the earlier recalls solved larger problems such as diesel fuel mixing with oil.

But he also said some had complained about engines that were later found to be running up to Ford's standards and said some owners simply might be unfamiliar with how diesels run.

"Obviously, there are some engines that are covered by the customer service program that we do need to fix," Ray said. "But on some of these vehicles there's nothing wrong with them. The customers just perceive there's something wrong."

So far, the troubles have not dimmed the enthusiasm of many owners. Several customers who got buybacks appear to be replacing their old models with new 2004 versions.

"They're going to get it right," said Steffen, who's owned four other Ford diesel trucks. "It worries me when."

Drilim
08-21-2003, 11:50 PM
My boss has the 7.3 i think in a 2001 F-250, And his truck is awesome. It runs like a charm, and you can have a full trailer with 20k of weight on it, And not feel anything.

It would be nice to see ford get it worked out. Also very nice to see that unlike some companies, they are admitting that somewhere along the lines there is a problem.

scheki
08-21-2003, 11:52 PM
I hope they do get it fixed. A 7.3 would be nice in a f-250 if I find one. A 6.0 would be nice but out of my budget.

81Bronk36
08-22-2003, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by Drilim
It would be nice to see ford get it worked out. Also very nice to see that unlike some companies, they are admitting that somewhere along the lines there is a problem.

I wouldnt say that... ever known anyone that had/has a SHO taurus??? Ford still doesnt admit to that little blunder... Cam gears shearing off= new engine($5,000)

Broncobob
08-22-2003, 12:32 AM
Cummins will always be #1 on my list. Call up banks power and ask them just what they have to say about those engines. My Dad has a 98 24v cummins, and he has talked to them numerously about stuff...they have a lot of good stuff to say about cummins.

Dustin
08-22-2003, 12:44 AM
yup tons of problems with the 6.0 ever since it came out. Its getting there where I reconize certian vehicles that come into the shop since theve been there so many times. It also seems these are the first models released tho too. I think ford pushed them out too quick, I need damn you think they would have found this crap before selling a ton of them. They run awsome and are a powerhouse when the are running correclty. Also for some reason the 04s seem to have more power. Im sure ford will get it fixed its just a matter of when, this is one of their top selling vehicles so they need to get it fixed or they are going to loose alot of customers.

Fireguy50
08-22-2003, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by 81Bronk36
I wouldnt say that... ever known anyone that had/has a SHO taurus??? Ford still doesnt admit to that little blunder... Cam gears shearing off= new engine($5,000)

That SHO engine isn't a Ford. Something sold to them from Asia.

Dustin
08-22-2003, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by Fireguy50
That SHO engine isn't a Ford. Something sold to them from Asia.

didnt yamaha make it?

81Bronk36
08-22-2003, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by Broncobob
Cummins will always be #1 on my list. Call up banks power and ask them just what they have to say about those engines. My Dad has a 98 24v cummins, and he has talked to them numerously about stuff...they have a lot of good stuff to say about cummins.

Ya but then you have to back it with a Dodge transmission... ha ha Ford still comes out on top!



"That SHO engine isn't a Ford. Something sold to them from Asia"


they dont even make them anymore period!

Jon0807
08-22-2003, 01:06 AM
pretty much knew that was gonna happen. When something new like that comes out you should wait a while before getting it so all the kinks can be worked out. We're just guinea pigs to them..

gearrat
08-22-2003, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by Dustin
didnt yamaha make it?

iirc there are two engines for it theyamaha and a american kick off

J-Roc
08-22-2003, 03:43 AM
I heard that the Dodges had problems with snapping their cranks at around the 100k mile mark. I don't know if this applied to the gas or diesel though. :shrug

Miketnf150
08-22-2003, 11:26 AM
A friend of my father-in-law brought one. He gets a new one just about every year for the farm. Put it in the shop about 3-4 times and had engineers down working on it as well. Never got it to work right. Brought the truck back and gave him a new one. Then it leaked oil all the time. Did you know that the 6.0 engine blocks are break down into pieces. Not a one peice block! What they crap was ford thinking there???:twak :twak :twak Anyway got that took it back as well. They ended up finding him a brand new left over 7.3 from somewhere. What he traded to begin with!!!!

My FIL has a 2001 XLT 4-Door Loaded 7.3L PSD and pulls a 27' travel trailer. Man what a freak'n haus of a truck. Hopefully I will have one one of dez days!!!

Sodbuster
08-22-2003, 12:21 PM
My buddy just bought a 6.0 he lost an injector about a week after he bought it, but he hasn't had any troubles since then.

Also, There is not a Cummins around that can come close to my 7.3 with a load on. We figured it up on day, my 7.3 should be running about 450 hp but it's actually about 425hp. It's amazing what 4" exhaust, an air box, and a little chip will do, there might be something more under the hood but I ain't telling.

Msuforeman
08-22-2003, 02:02 PM
Here in Jackson at the largest Ford dealership there are 4-'03 diesels awaiting new engines as of the past tuesday.

Have you driven a Ford lately?

Max
08-22-2003, 02:34 PM
The last model years of the SHO Tauras had a Yamaha 3.8L V8 and that's how they got into NASCAR. Now that engine is causing a lot of people who still own them big problems.

6.0L diesel problems are just more problems and set backs because Ford can't launch a new product for shit. Hopefully they tested fully the new 300 HP 5.4L so they don't have any problems with that this fall.

Anybody remember the blunder they had with the '99 SVT Cobra...:banghead dumbasses.

Brieldo
08-22-2003, 04:19 PM
My mom's 300 hp 5.4 in her Navigator works like a charm...32valves is ab eautiful thing

Davids78Bronco
08-22-2003, 04:47 PM
http://www.fordcummins.com/

:thumbup

allcruisen
08-22-2003, 05:19 PM
I could be wrong here but I coulda sworn that you could of gotten an F-350 at one time with a cummins engine. Dont know what year or if this is true.

I agree with Jon0807....As to wait till they tweak out all the little problems outa the new things they come out with.

Just look at the '80 Bronco....No offense to whoever owns one. But the were ginny pigs and trial and error for that year same as the 64 in a half Mustang...Its really a Ford Falcon. From front to back because they neede to get them out in a hurry.

Ford also had problems with the 5.4L when it was first introduced, I know a few people had problems with them in F-Series and expeditions...

The 6.0L, Is'nt that an International Diesel Harvester????????

My '84 Bronco with a 300 always had problems with the carb. because that was the year they were trying different things to get close to the fuel injection. I think they had like 6-8 different model carbs. for my application.

Allcruisen :imp :usa

94_chickentaco
08-22-2003, 07:09 PM
because Ford can't launch a new product for shit

Wrong.
Most any first year turbo diesel will have growing pains.

It is unfortunate but any new diesel with current emmisions restrictions will go through a similar problem. I noticed the chevy Duramax wasnt mentioned much. The first year they were produced the duramax was a known fireball. Yup, they ignite, torch, flame, roast, etc. Compiled with aluminum heads :confused: on the duramax and the little fire problem the chevy has gotten a worse reputation than the 6.0.

I would not have bought a 6.0, simply because its a new diesel and has not proved itself yet. For example, you will shorly see more of the VW Taureg on the roads. A 10 cylinder diesel is the power plant. Whatch the amount of crap that goes wrong with that car/suv/thing over the next year or two.

Cummins does make a very good motor, much better than the duraflame from chevy.

Back to the 6.0, I have heard lots of comments from 6.0 owners that dont have an issue with the motor, but how it performs. Some say it feels more like horsepower than torque, and cannot compete with the 7.3 psd when towing. I am not sure how much longer ford can offer the 7.3 psd in new vehicles, I beleive upcoming government emissions regulations have led ford into making the 6.0L. Now, the variable rate turbo sounds like something waiting to break. Really, something that gets that hot and spins that fast is going to be adjustable? :shrug

J-Roc
08-22-2003, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by Brieldo
My mom's 300 hp 5.4 in her Navigator works like a charm...32valves is ab eautiful thing

Well, if I remember correctly, that thing wont accept anything less than 91-93 octane? :shrug

Max
08-23-2003, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by 94_chickentaco
Wrong.
Most any first year turbo diesel will have growing pains.

It is unfortunate but any new diesel with current emmisions restrictions will go through a similar problem. I noticed the chevy Duramax wasnt mentioned much. The first year they were produced the duramax was a known fireball. Yup, they ignite, torch, flame, roast, etc. Compiled with aluminum heads :confused: on the duramax and the little fire problem the chevy has gotten a worse reputation than the 6.0.

I would not have bought a 6.0, simply because its a new diesel and has not proved itself yet. For example, you will shorly see more of the VW Taureg on the roads. A 10 cylinder diesel is the power plant. Whatch the amount of crap that goes wrong with that car/suv/thing over the next year or two.

Cummins does make a very good motor, much better than the duraflame from chevy.

Back to the 6.0, I have heard lots of comments from 6.0 owners that dont have an issue with the motor, but how it performs. Some say it feels more like horsepower than torque, and cannot compete with the 7.3 psd when towing. I am not sure how much longer ford can offer the 7.3 psd in new vehicles, I beleive upcoming government emissions regulations have led ford into making the 6.0L. Now, the variable rate turbo sounds like something waiting to break. Really, something that gets that hot and spins that fast is going to be adjustable? :shrug

If you would've read my post more clearly it wasn't just targeted at the 6.0L diesel, it is a known fact in the automotive world that indeed Ford cannot launch a new product for shit. That's why I made mention of '99 Cobra, made less horsepower then advertised so they were all recalled to repair the problem. Also causing Ford not to build a Cobra for the 2000 model year. Now all the Cobras are underated for power as Ford embarrassed itself in '99. What other launches had problems you may ask? The Ford Focus, The Escape, and even some '02 Explorers. If I'm not mistaken the new Mustang is a year behind schedule that's why it's the 2005 Mustang, and I believe the new F-150 is also behind schedule so hopefully all the problems are worked out before the sales really get going. So called growing pains for a new diesel are totally unacceptable...no matter what you say. The Japanese are now getting into the fullsize market with the new Titan which they are already looking to make a heavy duty version of. The stakes have been raised, if Ford can't compete then they will be gone they need to make precision launches. It won't be too long before customers get tired of Ford's shit and realize what the Asian automakers have to offer in the line of Fullsize trucks instead of only economy cars. Don't get me wrong I'm a Die Hard Ford guy, but this so called new product woes shouldn't be expected...or to say the least...major problems like the ones arrising with the 6.0L. This silent warrenty and silent recall stuff is bullshit or not owning up to the problems of the V8 SHO is not what a decent company should be doing...especially if they'd like to get themselves out of the financial hole that they are in. I really don't give a flying **** if you disagree with me on this, but if you want to take a load of shit from the Ford dealer about new product woes then be my guest, but it's the customers who fight back that will force them to make a better product.



Alright I'm done.

stockbronc
08-23-2003, 03:14 AM
it seems ford cant get anything right these days... problems with the new 6.0 desiel, the new 4.6 mustang cobra motor (so bad they had to stop production for a while) never ending problems with the crown vic and lincoln town car. :duh one day theu will figure it out, but untill then i will be buying all chevy vehicles. :D

Broncobob
08-23-2003, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by J-Roc
I heard that the Dodges had problems with snapping their cranks at around the 100k mile mark. I don't know if this applied to the gas or diesel though. :shrug

Must be gas, or they wouldn't gurantee overhauls until 300,000 miles, and that's on the old engines. The new ones I think are 500,000 miles. The new ones also produce max torque at (I think) 1800 rpm's.

I agree with the tranny that dodge is lacking in the automatic version, but 6spd manual is fine.

Also, don't know if they still do it, but with my Dad's if he gets all of the maitenence scheduling done on time and by dodge they warranty the engine until 300,000 miles... so that's what my dad is still doing and it feels like the day he got it.

BTW, he just got his brakes replaced for the first time this week at 84,000 miles!