I am going to change my steering to over the knuckle/heim joint and i'm not sure if DOM is really needed. I have access to 1 1/4" Schedule 80 and 160 steel pipe. This stuff looks pretty strong. On my 56' F-100 used DOM for the four link and panhard bar but there is a lot more force on that than there is on my Bronco steering system. I would like to use the pipe to save A LOT of money. What do y'all think? Thanks!
Jim

I would definantly go with DOM.
That aint a place to be saving money at

Why is DOM stronger. Other than being seamless there doesn't seem to be much difference in the two? I'm talking regular steel, Not chromeoly.
Jim

TUBE IS FOR TRUCKS AND PIPE IS FOR SHITTERS!!!!!!

god damnit people get that through your head already!!!!!!!!!

DOM is stronger cause its a solid peice and is seemless. For steering defently use DOM TUBE you can either tap it directly or weld in some inserts

You have to look at the way it is made too, that alone can cause different types of structural failure.

DOM i do believe is extruded as one solid piece, no seem, and being that the entire thing heats and cools as one, it is stronger.

Pipe on the other hand is rolled and the seem put in, you have hot spots from rolling it, and could have some weak spots.

I know when toying with things like steering, something i prefer not lose, i would definitely spend a bit more.

I don't know what the pipe or tube is going to be used for but as long as the seam didn't interfere with anything, I would use it especially when it has a thicker wall. I know the seamless tubing is better, I just think the thicker wall would compensate for it and remember the seam is 100%
Just a thought, if pipe is so inferior, why do so many people build roll bars out of them. Rob, steel for the most part is made the same as far as keeping the whole length at the same temperature and cooling or quenching procedures remain constant and consistant. you aren't going to have the middle red hot end the ends several hundred degrees cooler, for example.

and thats my opinion on that.

d

Just a thought, if pipe is so inferior, why do so many people build roll bars out of them.

When you build a rollbar, you use numerous pieces of pipe to build a structure, reinforcing each area. (Just saying pipe for this Dustin, don't yell at me about my sh!tter)

When your using a stand alone piece of pipe, it's a different story, nothing to reinforce it.

I

Ive seen lots of people use pipe for cages and it seems to work for those guys crawling the most part. I challenge you to find a peice of pipe in a desert race truck! whats that tell you?? You have so many choices for tube wall thickness as well, I dont beleive you have that choice with poop pipe

bottom line is it MAY work but WHY? you have to go to the yard for material and you have a choice why not go with what you know will work and go with tube like everyone else. Another thing is you need a differnt bender die to bend tube as well so it makes little sense to buy pipe and et a pipe die when your going to have to bend it.

]

There are still those who prefer DOM or HREW but it really is personal preference and the application it is put to. For example of the latter: Cage/chassis high speed desert racer No, NASCAR NO! Low speed, trail rig, Yes! Many crawlers have and continue to use it in their buggies.


There you go! your not going to find poop pipe in a desert race truck! whats that tell you? Thing is unforgently the fourwheeling world has a tendacy to cover up bad workmanship or materials. A poorly built cage might hold up to a flop or rollover but do that same thing several times and it will fail.

Use what you want but I will never use poop pipe over tube. Not to mention all my bending dies are for tube so its stupid to buy pipe to save a couple bucks. Thats what I dont understand with people, "oh its a little cheaper" Damit do it right and dont worry about saving a couple bucks to cut corners!

Ive seen lots of people use pipe for cages and it seems to work for those guys crawling the most part. I challenge you to find a peice of pipe in a desert race truck! whats that tell you??


How many people on this board are driving desert race trucks, as opposed to rock crawlers?

How many people on this board are driving desert race trucks, as opposed to rock crawlers?


I understand that but you have to look at those guys tho, they build some shit thats ungodly. where does all that technology trickle down to? the little guy thats where. Same thing goes for any motorsports, they pave the way for the future

I understand that but you have to look at those guys tho, they build some shit thats ungodly. where does all that technology trickle down to? the little guy thats where. Same thing goes for any motorsports, they pave the way for the future


:whiteflag

Well, I'm not one to argue.

I was just flipping through the other thread that Blown posted, that has the link to pirate, and those guys seem to say the exact opposite.

I also think its safe to say, that alot of those guys wheel their rigs alot harder than(most) of us, so I'm wondering why the bad rep?

Blown, I use a Harbor Freight style pipe bender too, and I also use standard tube, with the seam. Ive built a lot of stuff and havent had any problems with any of it. Ive never been a roll over with a cage I built, but if I were to build one, I would stake my life on it myself. Opinions vary greatly, here and on Pirate. Everyones a fawking know it all. If you dont spend top dollar and get the most expensive and best material, then its shit... is the opinion. Which I think, is stupid.

Ive run generic tires for years, and have had better experienice with them. I dont have a Miller welder, but my Sears buzz box makes awesome welds (I even repair cast iron). Im poor, so I use the best stuff that I can reasonable afford or save up for.

Now, Im not sure what there talking about with "poop pipe" unless there talking about black pipe, Ill check the Pirate link and read up. Oh, there talking about real poop pipe. I use 1 1/4" thats used in steel frabrication for handrails and such.

Seams to me, that deep pockets = an expert on everything.

Anyway, just voicing my opinion, which Im sure will not be supported and rather shot down. :-)

O/T - I know you're easily offended, but, your truck looks like ass. I like your exhaust routing, but not much else. Not that it matters, it's your truck, not mine

I do hope your next rollover would be just a flop. I don't have any experience with hard, or multiple, rollovers, but it LOOKS to me, like that cage will fold, buckle, and break. Especially at your joints, where you've sleeved it. Not to mention, the rear trinagulation doesn't look to offer anything, other than a mount for your spare tire

Again, none of this affects me, and while I wouldn't do it that way, I'm glad you like it :thumbup

Im not saying run out and buy cromo to build a damn bumper but when it comes down to a couple bucks to buy pipe over hrew or dom tube its not worth it.

I use hrew tube in my cages which will be just fine for wheeling. If I was building a desert truck I would use either DOM or chromo for strengh issues

:whiteflag

Well, I'm not one to argue.

I was just flipping through the other thread that Blown posted, that has the link to pirate, and those guys seem to say the exact opposite.

I also think its safe to say, that alot of those guys wheel their rigs alot harder than(most) of us, so I'm wondering why the bad rep?
get tubing. they make tubing witm a seam, and its not pipe, cheaper. my roll cage is made of HREW tubing, and it has held up to MANY hard rolls, only slight weaks(in door runners from doing a barrelroll and smahing a large rock o nthe door bar that stopped the truck) and small dents in it from landing o nthe cage on small outcropping of large rocks that left some flat spots in the tubing. im not to worried about it yet.

I was just asking. I think i'll go with seamless DOM steel tubing 1.5" o.d. x .250 wall. And how did this turn into a Cage thread when it started off talking about steering links? Thanks for all of the help and constructive criticism!

d

I merged these two threads due to them being pretty much the same.

since we are quoting pirate
Where the Tube wins is at the point of failure. The HREW and DOM (and dom is HREW so fawk off to anybody that doesn't understand how its made and why its nice stuff to work with when fabricating) will continue to bend at the point where sch40 will just fail. Weight is the second reason. Important when your crashing at 200mph and need the cage to deform to absorb the impact energy. Not so important when you are flopping a rig at 3mph.

From a building stand point. If you have the coin.......hell yeah HREW and a JD2 kicks ass. Very nice predictable fabrication. Its very easy to replicate your bends and a LOT more accurate. The end product will look a LOT better because of this. If you haven't got the coin but enough brains to design a good layout in Sch40.....go for it.




again do what you want with whatever you want. This topic will never get answered one way or the other. It coes down to personal opinons on the subject and how the so called structure is built. I for one will never use pipe to build my truck or anyone elses truck.

d

sleeving is an acceptable method when done correctly(I dont like how you did yours blown). you need to sleeve it from the inside, drill holes for plug welds, leave about 1/4 gap from the two peices your sleeving together, weld the gap and plug welds

It dosent really make for a clean looking cage but it will work. You try to only do it if you have to however.

Seams to me, that deep pockets = an expert on everything.


Thats kind of a dickheadish thing to say.

I appreciate the poor thing. But if i am going to save up for a Welder, which is usually a lifetime buy, i will save the money i am going to use for a cheaper welder, and save it for the better welder. The miller i want is a 220 wire feed, the miller i can AFFORD is the 135 110 wire feed. But when i get into serious fabrication, the 220 will pay for itself in the end. I buy the best because i don't want to have to buy a new one every week. THE BEST does not necessarily mean the most expensive, I research everything before buying it.

On the other end of it, I have been saving up for a 220 for last couple of years, seeing that any extra money i get i dump into the Bronco. Thats why i weld stuff at work.

If someone tells me there gonna spend a large sum of money on a welder, i am going to tell them to buy the best they can.

And what this basically comes down to is a difference of opinion. If I needed a roll cage, i would probably build it out of DOM.....lifetime build, not gonna build a new one once a week. Some people prefer pipe...that's their perogative. I guess it comes down to hoping that the people that do have rollcages never have to go through the experience of testing them.

Blown i am HIGHLY impressed with your rig. I would buy it hands down, and i would leave it as is. Dustin you fab some sweet things, i would spend the money to buy your builds too.

But when your talking about ONE single piece for a steering component, i would definitely suggest DOM.

I merged these two threads due to them being pretty much the same.
Man that messed me up, you did it AS i was posting.....i was like "what in the hell did i just do?"

Thats kind of a dickheadish thing to say.
Yeah, I know. But, Ill only realy offend the ones with deeep pockets and nooo in the trenches experience.

I dont always say things that are warm and fuzzy, cause I usually speak my mind and Im not always thinking warm and fuzzy thoughts. :twotu:





As far as the welder goes, DEFINATLY 220V. If you cant hold off, you could entertain as I did (years ago)....
http://danielservice.com/myimages/myarcwelder.jpg
:thumbup

The *only* welder I would buy with a Sears name on it is a buzz box. There made by Lincoln IIRC. There MIG/gassless wire welders are made by Centry, and all Centry welders are POS. :duh

dd

I ... just love this shit!
Me too! Nothing gets me happy like throwing sparks and chippin' slag! :thumbup

I'd gladly drag your rig through some trails, show you how the modifications I have made to my rig has made it more capable and tear your shit up! I get nothing from complements, to my hard work, when out on the trail from experienced wheelers. You know, where it counts not on the web.:histerica

from all the pics you have ever posted, I have never once seen you n a tight spot where you are close to rubbing a fender, or laying it on its side. You are always in the open with nothing around you. i have seen you on that one step up, but even that, there wasnt anything that I saw for you to lay your exo into it.

Id say that there are some experienced wheelers on this site, and they do not approve of or like the work that you have shown pics of.

Im not giving an opinion of your work or your rig, but i will say that that was a pretty bold comment, and from everything I have ever seen from you, you have not backed that statement up one bit.

Id say that there are some experienced wheelers on this site, and they do not approve of or like the work that you have shown pics of.
Not sure what to think of this statement. Its like Plug is the elected experienced wheeler representitive, and is authorized to speak on there behalf whithout console first. Cause what was just said, puts a large group on attack of one's work by way of one representitive.

Im not trying to start something, but I gotta speak out when I see something as bold at this being stated, wether it is by a mod or another member. Im not skeered, because Ive dont nothing wrong, but only bring light on what should be the obvious but overlooked. If speaking out on something that I dont agree with gets me in "hot water", so be it.

Its starting to seam like "anything goes", T&A pix, backstabbing talk, down talk... but get a group of "mods" feather's rustled will get you in "hot water". Wheres the sense in that? Might as well sign up a Pirate?

Just trying to be objective, and if there is enough maturity in the matter it can be solved to everyone's satisfaction without anger (a childish reflex).

Cheers,
Andrew
http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/images/fullsizem.gif

I would like to use the pipe... What do y'all think?
No.


I would definantly go with DOM.
That aint a place to be saving money at
I agree. Pipe for bumpers, sliders, cages, fine... DOM for steering links, etc..

Though I have no personal experience in building links, I can appericiate how much tension and torque is applied to these components, and it is much greater than many realize. You want the strongest thing you can get your hands on.

Good luck,
Andrew

lets not get out of hand with the topic of this post. I can see it going that way fast.

I beleive your taking plugs post out of context. Like your above post that is plugs opinon. why can he not express it?? He is not attacking him, he is just stating something that he sees and quite frankly I agree with him. I have seen several times with people pointing out issues with someones rig. plug is one of the many experenced people here, both in first hand technical knowledge and trail experence. You have to remember, what would happen if all the experenced people left? you need to be able to look at what some of these guys have done, they have been there and done that so learning from them is a great benifet.

You have to remember, what would happen if all the experenced people left?
i think most of them already have or have at least stopped posting
my abilites or lack thereof
at least you said it for me this time.

why people are willing to settle for an inferior product to save a few bucks when it comes to safety is beyond me. that extra benjamin in your wallet is gonna go a long way to cover hospital bills :rolleyes:

Wow people, lets not turn this into a fight. Everyone has their own opinion and is entitled. I am still not swayed, I will use pipe over DOM if it is all I have on hand. DOM is used more also, because you can't see any signs of the seam. For me that is the only reason for me to use DOM, to make something more visually appealling, I do hate that ugly seam. As far as safety goes, for what we use them for, for the most part I think pipe is good enough. below is my last bronco with my roll bar made from pipe, I'll admit, most the damage is to the front, but still...

http://www.supermotors.org/getfile/255249/fullsize/last%20bronco,%20bad%20day%206.jpg

After this roll, I took it out and put the roll bar into my cuurent Bronco

http://www.supermotors.org/getfile/252898/fullsize/bronco%201.JPG

You have to look at the way it is made too, that alone can cause different types of structural failure.

DOM i do believe is extruded as one solid piece, no seem, and being that the entire thing heats and cools as one, it is stronger.
Actually, DOM is welded, too, but the fact it is drawn thru a mandrel and die, is what ensures the wall thickness remains the same throughout the length of the tube. The tubing begins as a flat piece, the edges rolled together, and welded as it's drawn thru the machine. As it enters the machine, the weld seam, on the inside, is formed in with the tubing as it's drawn over the mandrel, and thru the die

Basically, it starts out as ERW tubing, and after being pulled thru a mandrel and die, becomes DOM

Pipe on the other hand is rolled and the seem put in, you have hot spots from rolling it, and could have some weak spots.
Not entirely true, as nearly everything is CNC-controlled

from all the pics you have ever posted, I have never once seen you n a tight spot where you are close to rubbing a fender, or laying it on its side. You are always in the open with nothing around you. i have seen you on that one step up, but even that, there wasnt anything that I saw for you to lay your exo into it.

Id say that there are some experienced wheelers on this site, and they do not approve of or like the work that you have shown pics of.

Im not giving an opinion of your work or your rig, but i will say that that was a pretty bold comment, and from everything I have ever seen from you, you have not backed that statement up one bit.

:histerica Your right Plug/Damon, I don't know shit!

If this is not a direct attack on me and my integrity what is?

Who is so experienced here to have put an Exo on there Bronc? I think I am about the only one. I have been pinned twice now in five runs against a tree and once drug my old rear fender across a boulder. Perhaps it my poor driving? (There is some more fodder for the cannon that you like to level at me.) I am learning and taking the harder lines, instead of the easy. I am building to do more radical trails in a wide assed bronco. There will be a greater chance to roll and rub.

Anyone who can read and is interested in facts that have been posted about material strength go to the Pirate thread I posted, read it and see that it backs up what I feel and started this post with.

Not entirely true, as nearly everything is CNC-controlled
Well, Id have to agree with that. The automated seams are pretty good. The shop I used to fab at, when cutting big dia pipe, when the saw hit the seam you could tell it, would take longer. The bends are no problem as long as there not too tight, shouldnt have any seam problems. Usually, the welds are stronger than the base material. I dont have any problems with pipe.

However, for the steering links, Id still insist on thick wall DOM.

Andrew

i think most of them already have or have at least stopped posting

at least you said it for me this time.

why people are willing to settle for an inferior product to save a few bucks when it comes to safety is beyond me. that extra benjamin in your wallet is gonna go a long way to cover hospital bills :rolleyes:


And I will post from the damn hospital bed when it doesn't happen! Nice dig Andy I love you too.

Tube is much harder to get a good weld on with the inexpensive MIG I have. With my welder, I choose Pipe, and I bought my bender for pipe.

Celebrate folks! The fact is racing uses the best, but not when the sport began. You can build for much less expensive with a basic welder, pipe and cheap ass bender. You wanna spend thousands on a DOM, TIG welded cage go ahead, enjoy!

I work at a sheet & Plate factory - and no one mentioned the alloy used. Alloys make a huge difference and the amount of shear force one type of allow will sustain over another is a MAJOR factor in the type of pipe you would use. Does this pipe shatter or bend when it is hit with tons of force at an angle, say a simple 'flop' over where a 2-4ton truck drops say 6-12 feet onto one pipe edge... not high speed - yet 3 tons falling 6 feet is 18000 foot pounds of force (at LEAST - multiply 18000 by mph!!!). Will the pipe shatter where the tubing will simply dent. Is your life based on saving $100 on one project... you better get all the facts (nice exo cage by the way - no matter what ____ says)...

muddtank

Not sure what to think of this statement. Its like Plug is the elected experienced wheeler representitive, and is authorized to speak on there behalf whithout console first. Cause what was just said, puts a large group on attack of one's work by way of one representitive.
Andrew

No it doesnt. It reiterates the fact that several of our members who have both trail experience and build experience have expressed concern over certain issues. They were all slighted by blowns comments regarding "web wheelers" and his insinuation that people on this site are not comepetent/experienced/or knowledgeable enuf to comment on his stuff . just because someone builds something one time, whether built correctly or incorrectly, does not make them an expert either. My take on what blown said was that he felt he was more correct than other people on this site because his "experience wheeler" freinds said it was "cool" or whatever.

you are taking it out of context, by saying that its an attack, and that mods are above others or whatever you said. Stay on target here.

Understand that POR isn't the be-all-that-ends-all. Even among their own group, there are differences of opions, as everyone seems to be an expert. So there, like here, a person needs to eat the meat, and spit out the bones, which I'm sure you've done, to come up with the logic that you have, to build your cage from pipe

If this is not a direct attack on me and my integrity what is?


Not sure how it attacks your integrity, Im just telling you to put up or shut up basically.


I have been pinned twice now in five runs against a tree and once drug my old rear fender across a boulder. Perhaps it my poor driving? (There is some more fodder for the cannon that you like to level at me.) I am learning and taking the harder lines, instead of the easy. I am building to do more radical trails in a wide assed bronco. There will be a greater chance to roll and rub.


wouldnt say thats being a bad driver, thats what happens when you go wheeling on tough terrain. As you stated, you are learning and taking tougher lines and thats great. But people have been taking wide assed broncos on radical trails for years, without an exo.

I guess my point is, that just because you did and like it, and so do some of your friends that wheel, does not make everything you say the gospel. There are a lot of people on "the web" here that have a lot of wheel and build time, that you implied have no ability to comment or have opinion, and I feel, as an individual, not a mod, that your statement was not fair.

:histerica Your right Plug/Damon, I don't know shit!

If this is not a direct attack on me and my integrity what is?




Your a Fawking tard you peice of shit......

now that is an attack...see the differnce?

Note that is strickly an example dont take to heart

:
Who is so experienced here to have put an Exo on there Bronc? I think I am about the only one.
.

again just cause you have installed an exo makes you experenced???? thats just what that statment says! you sit there and bitch about how how much others rip on your shit, well lots of those guys know a hell of alot more than you do in, (just look at there work for one) just cause you did one dosent make you god. Just cause someone hasent installed an exo dosent make them more experenced than the other guy, they just might not see the need for it thats all. hell I dont, I think its pointless but thats another story

I guess Im super duper cause I have a sas under my bronco and I know all:wacko

this thread is incredible
http://www.supermotors.org/getfile/270650/fullsize/incredible_big.jpg (http://www.supermotors.org/vehicles/registry/showmedia.php?id=270650&original=1)

Plug, I wonder why the hell all these people are doing EXO work, narrowing their rigs fronts, bobbing or dovetailing the back? Guess it is just a poser trend!:histerica And the fawkers are doing it with pipe! Perhaps they will all move on and build some nice square trail buggies with huge corners to hang up on shit!:beer


no, they actually need it cause they are running box canyons, etc.
I do think many people do it becuse it is a growing trend. How many people really need 60's is a point you like to make right? Well, i agree, how many people have 60's that DONT need them? Its a popular mod right, so people start following the popular trend.

You have to actually hit shit to get hung up.

(yes, now Im starting to get personal.)

I work at a sheet & Plate factory - and no one mentioned the alloy used. Alloys make a huge difference and the amount of shear force one type of allow will sustain over another is a MAJOR factor in the type of pipe you would use. Does this pipe shatter or bend when it is hit with tons of force at an angle, say a simple 'flop' over where a 2-4ton truck drops say 6-12 feet onto one pipe edge... not high speed - yet 3 tons falling 6 feet is 18000 foot pounds of force (at LEAST - multiply 18000 by mph!!!). Will the pipe shatter where the tubing will simply dent. Is your life based on saving $100 on one project... you better get all the facts (nice exo cage by the way - no matter what ____ says)...

muddtank

I think you are confused , my friend. Pipe is mild steel, nothing more, it will not shatter. Now if you case harden it or get a high carbon content, then it may shatter. Mild steel will simply dent, bend or just give. I have a steel book in the garage, and there is not a special pipe section with a high carbon content, that I can recall. The next time you have pipe shatter, save the pieces and let me know, I'll pay for shipping to see that for myself.

Otherwise, in this thread, opinions haven't changed, and I doubt they will. Bottom line, you use whatever you want, period. If someone else doesn't like it, too bad.

http://www.supermotors.org/getfile/270650/fullsize/incredible_big.jpg

:histerica :histerica I remember that show, I used to watch it all the time.

No it doesnt. It reiterates the fact that several of our members who have both trail experience and build experience have expressed concern over certain issues. They were all slighted by blowns comments regarding "web wheelers" and his insinuation that people on this site are not comepetent/experienced/or knowledgeable enuf to comment on his stuff . just because someone builds something one time, whether built correctly or incorrectly, does not make them an expert either. My take on what blown said was that he felt he was more correct than other people on this site because his "experience wheeler" freinds said it was "cool" or whatever.

you are taking it out of context, by saying that its an attack, and that mods are above others or whatever you said. Stay on target here.

I better understand now, theres obviously some history that I was not previously aware of. Thank you for a prompt and mature reply Plug. I retract any possible insinuations that may have been made in my previous post.

BTW, how bout them Yams? I here there in the running for the championship this year!

There are still those who prefer DOM or HREW but it really is personal preference and the application it is put to. For example of the latter: Cage/chassis high speed desert racer No, NASCAR NO! Low speed, trail rig, Yes! Many crawlers have and continue to use it in their buggies.

I think this is getting a bit blown out of proportion (no pun intended).

It's his truck, it's his personal preference, not everyone's. He can do what he wants with his truck.

If it ever came down to me building an EXO for my truck, which i highly doubt i will ever need, i would follow the advice of those i trust and use my personal preference to build it.

I'll probably never get the chance to rock crawl in my life, as much as i would like to, i'll never have a rig built for it, i like driving my trucks too much to let them sit until i need them for rocks.

I just have a quick question Blown....with some of the videos i have seen here, and on pirate....when the rigs start to roll, and i mean roll, like down hill, there was one with a jeep i saw, and it was hammering rocks and cartwheeling and rolling down the hill and SLAMMING into the ground and rock...how does this not become high speed impact? (not flaming you, just wondering)

Pipe might work fine for many guys cages, hell... if I was ever going to build an EXO for my truck I would just use exhaust pipe because it would never get rubbed up on anything on the trail and it would never be flipped over either. That aint my kind of wheelin.
But for something as critical as a steering link I would definantly go with the best stuff money can buy, which would be heavy walled DOM. If you cant afford the extra cost then just wait untill you can. You really dont want to find out the pipe you used wasn't strong enoufgh when your just about to hit deadmans curve on a canyon road

i read alot of that pbb thread, it had some really good info, if you can read between the bs. it has actually turned me on to the idea of pipe. i had always thought it was a different alloy, or formed different, but that doesn't appear to be the case. this isn't to mean i would use it in steering, def dom.

the biggest problem i have with pipe, is that not only do people try to save money on the materials, but they try to save money on their equipment too. not many get a JD2 or pt105 with pipe dies, they just get a harbor freight hydraulic pipe bender. now you can justify pipe by saying you only have slow rollovers, and its thicker and heavier than tube so it will be okay (we will ignore bronco rob's excellent point about how rolling rigs do pick up scary amounts of speed), but you cant tell me push bent pipe or even scarier, the crimped exhaust bent pipe is strong enough. or even worse, they say, f this, i dont need no stinkin bender, and every angle needed just gets the cut 'n weld treatment. way to triple the amount of nodes you have. if you want examples of one, or all three of these you can....well, you can look at blown's exo. i tried to think of some other place to find em, but thats the easiest, and the only rig i can think of with all 3 methods used.

i have pipe on my rig, its part of my sliders. but its not bent, it replaces a straight piece that runs under my rockers. the bent main hoop of the sliders is 1.75 DOM. i could use pipe on my bumpers to save some money, but its too damn heavy, and i have a real bender with tube dies, so its more of a hassle anyway.

Bullshit, I'm done here at FSB. Best left to the experts! I suck, build shit, don't really wheel, am a poser, and know nothing! Screw my detractors and bless those friends who have supported me and like my build. This site is a great resource in many ways. I had enjoyed it, thought I had contributed much, but now the politics and attitude of this site take away from that enjoyment. My opinion and I'm done.

Truth here based on facts: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416112

TUBE IS FOR TRUCKS AND PIPE IS FOR SHITTERS!!!!!!

god damnit people get that through your head already!!!!!!!!!


:toothless :histerica :clap :lolup

Bullshit, I'm done here at FSB. Best left to the experts! I suck, build shit, don't really wheel, am a poser, and know nothing! Screw my detractors and bless those friends who have supported me and like my build. This site is a great resource in many ways. I had enjoyed it, thought I had contributed much, but now the politics and attitude of this site take away from that enjoyment. My opinion and I'm done.

Truth here based on facts: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416112


I'm sorry to hear that Blown. Perhaps when everyone has chilled out some you may reconsider. I have no idea what got all this going, obviously it's from other posts, but this site is only as good as those who choose to frequent it, and contribute to it.

Bye Bye

Well, that was childish




:twotu:

Perhaps it's time to close this then