OK, I need some info on swapping in a 60 using leafs.

I have checked out superford and found some helpful info. But I would like to know a few more things.

What leafs is everyone running?
How much lift in the springs to achieve 6inches over stock Bronco height?
What is the eye-to-eye measurement?
Do spring hanger need to be custom made? or can I use stock F350 hangers?
What is the arm that runs from teh axle to the crossmember on the F350? DO I need to still use this arm? If not, can I jsut cut off the huge bracket that holds it to the axle?
Does the front of the frame need to be boxed?
Where can I buy Spicer u-joints?

I am not looking for massive amoutns of travel, but obviously more than the TTB.

Any advice or comments are appreciated.

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
OK, I need some info on swapping in a 60 using leafs.

I have checked out superford and found some helpful info. But I would like to know a few more things.

What leafs is everyone running?
How much lift in the springs to achieve 6inches over stock Bronco height?
What is the eye-to-eye measurement?
Do spring hanger need to be custom made? or can I use stock F350 hangers?
What is the arm that runs from teh axle to the crossmember on the F350? DO I need to still use this arm? If not, can I jsut cut off the huge bracket that holds it to the axle?
Does the front of the frame need to be boxed?
Where can I buy Spicer u-joints?

I am not looking for massive amoutns of travel, but obviously more than the TTB.

Any advice or comments are appreciated.

I'm running the stock leafs from the F-350
I got about 7" of lift using the stock leaf springs, and adding the factory lift blocks and 10.25 rear axle in the rear. 35s fit no problem.
Doesn't need to be custom made(I made mine), Keith_L did a trick swap using 79 F-250? front hangers
That would be the track bar, don't need it when running leafs.
In Keith_L's version of the swap, he needed to box the frame, I didn't need to box mine in.


The bracket I built
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=69010&toggle=fullsize&f=Front_Bracket.jpg

I will answer what i know.
But remember this is just my view and there is a thousand correct answers.

I have seen most people running stock f250 or 350 springs.

That achieves apx 6-7" depending on how you mount your set up.

eye to eye I dunno, gotta use a tape measure when you choose your leaf pack.

The arm is teh track bar. You do not "need" one if your front end is built correctly. Some people have them, some dont, most of the ones I have seen dont. Keith L on this board runs his rig hard, and has no track bar, and as far as i know he hasnt had any problems that boiled down to that one thing.

If you can box the frame that would be MUCH better. Integrity to the frame is always a good thing.

Spicer u-joints huh, I dunno, try the off road sales pages.

It will most likely not travel as much as coils will.
But if it is built right then the leafs can take more abuse, and the stability may be better. It all depends on how well yoiu build it.

I always prefer overkill because it makes me feel better on teh trail.

Originally posted by Beerman
I always prefer overkill because it makes me feel better on teh trail.

I hear ya on that one brotha!!:thumbup

Thanks everyone.

F350 Diesel springs seem as if they would be hella stiff and not offer much travel though, especially under a lighter gas motor. Has anyone used anything else?

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
Thanks everyone.

F350 Diesel springs seem as if they would be hella stiff and not offer much travel though, especially under a lighter gas motor. Has anyone used anything else?

Well, that's not entirely true. The reason stock F350s (and 250's especially) don't flex much is 1)very little room between the stock bump stop and axle 2)the trac bar and 3)the stock front-mounted shackles aren't allowed much travel within the framerail.

That said, I only used the main leaf from an '86 F350. It's not a bad candidate because it will more or less put your wheel centered in the wheelwell, and it's fairly long as leafs go (about 52"). For the second leaf I used a leaf from a rear spring pack that was nearly the same length (I've actually installed a longer lower leaf since the pics below).

To answer the 2nd part of your question, Chris Bradley in BC used Chevy springs, as did Kurt Hartsig in Washington. The Chevy springs are cheap and readily available (they used aftermarket 4" lift version IIRC) and flex pretty darn well. They are, however, shorter... around 46" IIRC, and 2.5" wide, which may or may not cause complications trying to mate them to a stock Ford 3" wide spring perch.

Here I am jacking around on a crack in Moab:
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=83518

I climbed under the truck and took these shots, here's the stuffed side:
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=83520

Here's the drooped side (note the bushing twist too)
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=83521

I'm not saying this is your best choice, but for a home-brew, low-tech setup using all junkyard parts it ain't so bad.

There's more pics here if you still care:
http://www.superford.org/registry/vehicles/detail.php?id=139&s=13234#content

Originally posted by Beerman
It will most likely not travel as much as coils will.


I have seen alot of leaf sprung vehicles flex pretty well in the magazines...aren't most of this years Top Truck Challenge trucks leaf sprung as opposed to last years four link coil over set ups?

Hey Keith I hate to bother you but if you get a moment would you mind snapping some pics of your steering set up and components. (Front shots)
I know it is probably a simple set up, but I am more of a visual learner.
I will be forever in your debt.
Thanks a million if you can.:beer

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey

Where can I buy Spicer u-joints?


NAPA, FleetPride, PartsMikeParts, any reputable driveline shop (look in the phone book).

I got the best prices on front D60 joints from FleetPride. It was about $42 out the door -- $35 for the joint, and $7 s/h from Dana in Ohio. NAPA wants like $70/ea.

Originally posted by seboh
NAPA, FleetPride, PartsMikeParts, any reputable driveline shop (look in the phone book).

I got the best prices on front D60 joints from FleetPride. It was about $42 out the door -- $35 for the joint, and $7 s/h from Dana in Ohio. NAPA wants like $70/ea.

For a god damn u- joint. Jesus.:eek:

Originally posted by Beerman
Hey Keith I hate to bother you but if you get a moment would you mind snapping some pics of your steering set up and components. (Front shots)
I know it is probably a simple set up, but I am more of a visual learner.

I haven't re-loaded those pics but linked from Dustin's registry page:

Note your drag link really shouldn't look like this LOL
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=45236

http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=45237

Thank you.

That had to hurt.

So is that stock steering stuff from a 77ish F250 also?

Originally posted by Beerman
So is that stock steering stuff from a 77ish F250 also?

No, that's stock drag link and tie rod that came with the axle. You want the steering stuff from an '85ish-97 F350 with the D60 front.

'78/9 steering shouldn't work (at least not the drag link) 'cause they had a different steering box.

i remember a guy posting some pics in this forum and he had a 88 or 89 bronco and was running chevy leafs up front and 39.5 inch swampers. i was looking for a link to his superford cause i was trying to get some stuff planned out for my next bronco, anyone remember the link? or maybe he'll reply! thanks

wes

one more thing,
keith, do you have any interferance problems with the engine crossmember? i am a loyal to leafs, simple and they can be made to flex just as well if not better than coils in my opinion! just look at toby harrell, this years TTC winner, my friend from san angelo (i really do know the guy) his blazer flexes real well, obviously well enough to beat the other 9 guys!

wes

hey I am the guy running the chevy springs. They work great. I have 4 inch chevy 1/2 ton rancho springs. I am using the factory front and rear hangers off of a 78 f250. All I did was cut the front of the frame where it is closed so that it was open like a C. Then I made a huge crossmember with plates on each that fit right into that C opening. Bolted it in, welded on the front hangers. The rear hangers are a little tricky. I had to cut a nice size hole in the frame for rear shackle hangers. I am going to be putting on 6 inch chevy springs soon so if anyone needs the 4 inch ones they are for sale. only one year old. Oh and I ended up with about 5" of lift from the springs. As for steering I ordered up a crossover arm from avalanche. I also got heim ends and the threaded parts and just made my link out of DOM tubing.
I had to torch off part of the engine crossmember so that the pumpkin would fit under flex.

thanks for the info bandit. as i said, this is a ways off, i dont even have a new bronco yet! im goin to get me a better daily driver first, then after i pay that off ill get me the bronco.

wes

p.s. your superford is now a favorite, so i wont have to ask this question again!

hey keith I hope you swaped out your steering for this years trip!

I have the stock 87 tierods and drag if someone is wanting them.

by the way...9 of 10 of this years TTC trucks are leaf sprung.:thumbup

Originally posted by wes 03
keith, do you have any interferance problems with the engine crossmember?

No, not with the '85ish+ front.

Damon, check your pm's :thumbup

Dustin, I'm just reinforcing with angle for now. High steer is coming.... eventually.

ok so I will bring extra batterys, some rod, and some junk wrenches :goodfinge

Any thoughts on running the shackles up front, like say with using the ORU kit? WOuld this require boxing of frame? Would this have anything to do with travel?

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
Any thoughts on running the shackles up front, like say with using the ORU kit? WOuld this require boxing of frame? Would this have anything to do with travel?

You'll end up with a bit less lift that way... and I think ride quality will suffer.

This was a huge debate for me when I was trying to decide how to do my SAS.........I asked around and all the poeple I felt were credible said to run the shackle at the rear of spring (for ride quality).

Makes sense to me.... as you're driving forward and hit a bump, the tire should be able to travel up and back. A front mounted shackle makes the tire travel up and forward, forcing the tire into the bump harder. Some say this helps traction on big ledges by pushing the tire into the ledge..... I'm not buying it personally.

But if you search Jeep forums (I did) you'll find this is as big a debate as EFI vs carb, auto vs manual, etc.

But does not ORU market this kit to "improve ride quality" and lift 2.5 inches?

Your reasoning makes sense to me too. Just trying to research all options before diving in.



Also, does anyone have an pics of a stock F350s frame where the front springs mount?

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
But does not ORU market this kit to "improve ride quality" and lift 2.5 inches?

Your reasoning makes sense to me too. Just trying to research all options before diving in.

ORU sells two kits. One does away with the stupid a-frame shackles but keeps the shackles up front.

The other kit gives you an over-priced (like $400 or more?) bolt-on xmember for the front, and allows you to move the shackles to the rear. The lift comes from dropping the front and rear spring eyes just a bit. But yes, you could use this kit without having to box the frame. I thought about this but couldn't live with myself if I paid what ORU wants for that piece. At the time I didn't have fab ability but it was still cheaper to drive to my buddy's shop so we could box my framerails.

Hang on, I'll get a pic, been meaning to do it anyway since I lost my other one.

Thanks Keith. I am looking around on your Superford site at your swap. I need to go to the junkyard tomorrow and get the rear hangers(for the front springs) b/c that part seems to be the most bolt on besides the grinding to move the bracket forward slightly.

Now I need to determine the front. I would really like to box the frame, but I have no metal, nor welding tools and the Bronc has no frontend, so it can't be rolled to take it to have someone do it. Sucks for me.

Some guy down the street has a leaf spring 44under his 85 and it looks like he just notched the lower part of the C, bolted on a mount inside teh frame, and ran the hanger through that notched section. Any ideas on what mount and front hanger he used?? Sorry, have not been able to catch him outside yet.

Also, once the front and rear hangers are mounted, I would like them to stay there, meaning that I might want to change springs later on, but not overall spring length. Is the lenght of these stock springs suitable? Does spring length have a relation to travel and/or ride quality??

I apologize for so many questions, and thank everyone for there input

Ok, here's the stock framehorns for any '80-97 F250 or 350 4x4. Look at the unstable a-frame shackle and how little room it has to move (esp forward). This was some of Team TFI's best work.

http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=89870&toggle=fullsize&f=SwampDonkey 006.jpg

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
Is the lenght of these stock springs suitable? Does spring length have a relation to travel and/or ride quality??

Hate to tell you, but the rear hangers for the front springs are riveted on to any 250 or 350.

I dunno what your neighbor used, but I'd guess maybe the rear mount for the front springs from a '77 F250. I contemplated doing this very thing..... I think you could do this whole swap without welding if you used these. I could get a pic tomorrow.

As for your question above, yes spring length has an effect on ride quality and travel. These stock springs are pretty killer because they're around 52" long, which is pretty good. The Chevy springs are around 46", but seem to work very well for those who use them.

In contrast the stock springs on the rear of our Broncos are around 56", and the desireable rear springs for swaps on other vehicles are 63" Chevy springs (very long and very flexy)

Generally a longer spring has more available travel and will not ride as harsh..........but there are of course a million variables.

OK, well those pics explain alot. I assume my neighbor is using those hangars. That seems like it would be very bolt on, though the design does seem weak.

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
OK, well those pics explain alot. I assume my neighbor is using those hangars. That seems like it would be very bolt on, though the design does seem week.

You'd HAVE TO use a trac bar if you used the stock a-frame shackles, and you'd have to mod those some so the shackle actually had room to move.... in those pics it can maybe come forward 3/4" before it binds. Ford didn't care 'cause they knew the stock configuration (either a 60 with a trac bar or D50 TTB) wouldn't move enough for it to matter.

http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=77119&toggle=fullsize&f=DCP_0285.JPG

This is a stock rear hanger (front springs). When it was on the F350, it did not have a shackle on it correct?

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
Any thoughts on running the shackles up front, like say with using the ORU kit? WOuld this require boxing of frame? Would this have anything to do with travel?

I just realized that this does not really make sense. ORU puts the SHACKLE behind the axle. You and ORU think it is a good idea to have the SHACKLE behind the axle. So did all F250/350s always come in stock form with the shackle up front??

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
So did all F250/350s always come in stock form with the shackle up front??

Yes, from '80-97.

The hanger pictured above did not have a shackle stock, the spring eye just slips in there with a bolt thru it.

couldnt you just box the frame then get some shackles from somewhere like offroad design and run those along with the stock hangers on the other end? just wondering

wes

Originally posted by Keith_L
Yes, from '80-97.

The hanger pictured above did not have a shackle stock, the spring eye just slips in there with a bolt thru it.

So you got the shackle from a pre-80 F250/350? and it bolts right in?

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
So you got the shackle from a pre-80 F250/350? and it bolts right in?

No. The shackles I'm using for my SAS are the same shackles that currently reside in the rear of your Bronco (or any Bronco thru F350 from at least '78-97. They drop right into the hanger.

OK, next question.

Are F350 D60 stock springs and D50 TTB stock springs pretty much the same? Are the rear hangers(front springs) the same?

I only ask b/c the only things in the junkyard near my house is F250 TTB. Those springs, hangers, and everythings are still on the junked truck.

Shackles and hangers are the same, springs are not. The F250 springs are usually negative arch.

Went to the junkyard. They are pulling from the frontend, the rear hangers, the front A-shackles and mounts, and both springs from a 93 F250 4x4 TTB. The springs though only have two leafs in them.

There was an F350? out there with D50 TTB (wrong badges)and it was a diesel, it had 4 leafs in its packs.

80-85 ish F350s were TTB...:banghead

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
The springs though only have two leafs in them.

That's normal. I'd retain the main leaf and swap out the lower one for something thinner (and thus softer).

Originally posted by Crazed
80-85 ish F350s were TTB...:banghead

Are you sure about that?

Anyways, this was a 87-91. It had to have been wrong badges. It had the sticker on the inner door sill. If there is a diff witht he weight for the frontend, we could find out.


Anyways, from the frontend, I got the rear HANGARs, and from the rear of the truck, I got the rear SHACKLES and the frton HANGARS. They had 8 rivets, unlike the 1/2 ton, which only had 6. I do not think the springs would lift me any, but I got them anyway. Also snagged an extra set of shock towers off the same truck. All and all paid $108. It took the guy a good 2-3 hours of torching everything off, so I think I did ok.

I will post a bunch of pics later tonight around 9 when I get out of class.

ps, capitilizing shackles and hangars for my own sake, cause I have been getting confused :)

edit: the front hangars for the rear springs have 6 rivets on the 3/4+, and 4 for the 1/2 tons, not 8 & 6

The donor truck for the hangers, 93 F250 4x4. The front front shackle mounts on this truck were differnent than any of the other trucks in the yard. The frame was boxed.
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=85800&toggle=fullsize&f=F250.jpg



This is the front mount w/ shackle from another F250 F250
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=85803&toggle=fullsize&f=frtshacklemoun.jpg

This is the rear spring mount/hanger from a 3/4ton+ Ford
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=85805&toggle=fullsize&f=rearfrtmount2.jpg


If you can't find these in a junkyard, then your not looking very hard. Any 80-96 Ford Truck has them.

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
Are you sure about that?

Anyways, from the frontend, I got the rear HANGARs, and from the rear of the truck, I got the rear SHACKLES and the frton HANGARS. They had 8 rivets, unlike the 1/2 ton, which only had 6.

Yes, 80-85ish F350s were TTB D50.

On the front hangers for the rear springs I think you mean 6 rivets vs 4 rivets for 1/2 tons.

$108 really ain't bad at all for all of that.

oops,yeah, I must have been thinking about the rear hangers for front springs.


Here is neighbor's truck. It's a leaf-sprung 44, with stock F250/350 hangars, and A-shackles, no trackbar.
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=85877&toggle=fullsize&f=bluetruck1.jpg
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=85878&toggle=fullsize&f=bluetruck2.jpg

He is running Superlift springs with PN 01-106FRT. ANyone know what these are made for? THey give plenty of room for 37s, but he is running 35s

weird F350
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=85801&toggle=fullsize&f=f350.jpg

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
Here is neighbor's truck. It's a leaf-sprung 44, with stock F250/350 hangars, and A-shackles, no trackbar.

I wouldn't trust it. You CAN do that, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. At best those a-shackles will be sketchy on the street.......if not now (I'm sure he swears it's fine), later as they hyper-acclerate the wear on their upper bushing. At worst they'll fold over eventually.... at least if you abuse it.

No offense to your neighbor, but that thing looks too clean to be a trail rig. Is he more concerned with functionality or looks? Does he even have a front driveshaft? No, really.??

Plus I still question if those shackles allow enough travel.

Overall it just looks like a below-average way to do it to me... with lots of compromises. Is that what you want just to avoid a little welding, or do you wanna do it right the first time?

Of course that's only my opinion.

And what's weird about the F350 pictured? TTB? Nothing surprises me with Mother Ford.

I am not doing the swap as he did it. I am just gathering ideas off how other leafsprung swaps have been done, since there are not too many of them. How he did it seems very easy and very bolt-on though. I agree, the shackles seem sketchy.

I didn't even talk to the guy, I just snapped pics outside his house the morning. I am thinking that he just did the swap b/c I saw it during summer semester around town and it was still TTB. Very clean truck though.

The springs on the blue truck above are 6in. Superlift springs for 80-96 F250/350 gas motor.

Any more thoughts on going with the aftermarket springs as opposed to simply using the stock ford leafs?

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
The springs on the blue truck above are 6in. Superlift springs for 80-96 F250/350 gas motor.

Any more thoughts on going with the aftermarket springs as opposed to simply using the stock ford leafs?

Since the Superlift springs are designed for a 3/4t or above, I assume they're gonna be stiffer. Like I said, I softened up my "stock" springs by only using the main leaf.

The springs you're looking at will provide more lift - - 6" over a stock F250 apparently, and will cost more money.

The stockers will provide less lift and are cheap/free.

Putting the shackle at the rear with either spring will provide about 2" more lift.

Keith, did you every find a pic of that 77 f250 mount that I might be able to use?

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
Keith, did you every find a pic of that 77 f250 mount that I might be able to use?

Ok, now stay with me here....... what I'm gonna show you is the stock rear mount for the front springs on a '77 F250. These trucks had the shackle at the rear of the front springs stock (and no trac bar). They had a hole right thru the framerail and the shackle essentially straddled the frame like a Chevy. You cannot use this hanger at the rear of the front springs because the older frames were straight, where as the newer ones curve in and out at random; this is where the newer (80+) rear hangers for the front springs come in because they position the spring correctly: about 2/3 under the framerail and 1/3 not.

If that doesn't make sense, read it again (not being insulting).

Now, here's the mount in question:
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=89868&toggle=fullsize&f=SwampDonkey 002.jpg

You would have to cut a hole in your framehorn to accomodate this lip. It's about 1.75" by my rough measurements and a quality bi-metal hole saw would make quick work of it:
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=89869&toggle=fullsize&f=SwampDonkey 005.jpg

You would position the hanger in this general area (this pic for illustration purposes only as there are other stupid shackles and mounts in the way of where it would ACTUALLY go:
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=89870&toggle=fullsize&f=SwampDonkey 006.jpg

And it would essentially function just like this. The shackles pictured are also the stock shackles from a '77 F250 front end and are nothing more than 3/8" plate with some holes in them
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=89871&toggle=fullsize&f=SwampDonkey 008.jpg

The biggest potential problem I see is that that hanger was originally retained by three rivets (see top pic). They're not that big and I'd think you'd need larger bolts than that.......but you can see you don't have much room to open up those three holes. You'd probably be lucky to get 3/8" bolts in there... maybe 7/16". The good news is that if you made the 1.75" (approx) hole nice and snug the hanger is essentially hub-centric and so all the bolts are doing is clamping it to the framerail, but they're not locating it any other way and are not in shear (bolts are technically never supposed to be in shear but that never works out in reality LOL). You could postion these, bolt them up, and then drive to a buddy and have them welded in place, return home and finish the swap.

I'm not recommending this, just pointing out an option (which I don't like 'cause it puts the shackle at the front again)

EDIT: oh, and you can thank my awesome gf for helping me take the last pic, note both my hands are tied up LOL

Thanks for all your help Keith.

I am pretty set on having the shackle in the rear so I guess my options are either the ORU kit or boxing the frame and using the 70s front front mounts.

Here is how I did my SAS (http://chrisb.users.superford.org/Solid_Axle_Swap.html)

I like that alot Bronco boy. What springs did you use? Any more info on that front bumper?

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
I like that alot Bronco boy. What springs did you use? Any more info on that front bumper?


Thanks. The springs are Pro-Comp 4" Chey front's. Here is a list of all the parts (http://chrisb.users.superford.org/SAS_Parts_List.html) that I used. The bumper is custom made by Serious Metal Fabricators, a local fab shop and good buddy. :)

Oh, here is the bumper as it was being built. (http://www.superford.org/registry/vehicles/detail.php?id=100&s=13013#content)

what did you pull that axle out of? I like those flat top knuckles! Nice work :thumbup

Originally posted by muddybronco
what did you pull that axle out of? I like those flat top knuckles! Nice work :thumbup


Thanks. The axle is from a '78 F-150 Supercab.

Does this look good?
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=91623&toggle=fullsize&f=mocked up hangar.jpg

Any ideas on how to fix the bottom rail of the frame here...
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=91624&toggle=fullsize&f=bent frame.jpg

hmm, i wonder where those brackets came from?

do they look okay swamp?
as fo the bent frame rail, i always use a port a power, or the sledge....

Yeah, the hangars in the pic are what I needed.

As for the frame, I have tried beating on it some with a sledge and I do not think it is going to work. What about cutting with a sawzall before and after the bent area and then beat it back into place, then weld up the cuts when I have someone box the frame.

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
Any ideas on how to fix the bottom rail of the frame here...

No need if you're gonna run DOM like I did. The tube takes all the load. One of my front hangers doesn't even touch the bottom of the framerail. Plus what little you'd have touching wouldn't support any load anyway; that inner tab on those hangers will just bend

I was really planning on using that tab and running a bolt through the hole into the bottom of the frame. If it is not necessary, then I could move the hangar up further about 3/4" If you do not think it is necessary, then could I cut it out?

I am thinking that I can cut it out if I use the DOM like you did.

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
Any ideas on how to fix the bottom rail of the frame here...


Hammer. If it doesn't budge, cut it right down the center, hammer it in place, then weld it shut again.

I'd weld those brackets to the frame, too.

Something like this:

http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=81914&toggle=fullsize&f=d60_080.jpg

Originally posted by Keith_L
No need if you're gonna run DOM like I did. The tube takes all the load. One of my front hangers doesn't even touch the bottom of the framerail. Plus what little you'd have touching wouldn't support any load anyway; that inner tab on those hangers will just bend

Don't forget to mention that your brackets have repeatedly tried to tear themselves from the frame.

I had to make 4 or 5 cuts in my horn in order to get it straight.

http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=77482&toggle=fullsize&f=frame002.jpg

I think that is probably how I will end up mounting the hangar on the inside like that and bolt it on the outside.

I'm not sure what you mean.... are you talking about mine or Keith's?

Mine's welded all the way around.

I am going to end up doing kinda combo of how you did the inner side of the frame and how Keith did the outside(bolt it) I am going to hack up the hangars a little bit. I will post some pics so it is easier to understand.

Hmm.... I dunno that I'd bother. Either build a good, flat area on the frame where you can get a good clamp to bolt the bracket on, or hack off the ears and weld it on.

Bolting some connections and welding others doesn't make much sense, IMHO.

What type of steering are you going to use? If you're talking stock-type links, you may have to move the frame bracket rearward from what you're showing there. Mine and Keith's are both about 1/4" from the body mount, and that's about the limits of the stock links. I had my axle about where you're showing yours, and the drag link didn't fit.

Just found some stock F350 front springs. They are 54inches in length of the vehicle and consist of two "really thick" leafs. They are only $50. I know these might not be the most flexible, but I want them to get hte truck rolling while I get the dough for Alcans. So I guess what I am asking is, "Is 54 the magic number for length?

Check Swamp Donkey Progress in "80-96 Forum.

Should be 52" center to center of spring eyes......and the springs you describe are the springs I'm now running ("two really thick leafs") since breaking a main leaf in Moab. It's definitely a bit stiff, but I'm thinking after some trail use they'll soften up

Hmmm, i asked the guy selling them again and he says 54.25 eye to eye off the truck. I guess this is not really bad, just odd. I think I am stull going to get them.

Originally posted by Swamp Donkey
Hmmm, i asked the guy selling them again and he says 54.25 eye to eye off the truck. I guess this is not really bad, just odd. I think I am stull going to get them.

Almost sounds more like new SuperDuty springs

http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=95016&toggle=fullsize&f=shackle angle.jpg

This is unweighted obviously

This is just jacked up into place. Is it grinder time? I looked at all Keith's pics on his site adn it looks like I will need to start cutting. What should the shackel angle look like with no axle, no wieght of truck. 4-5 o'clock on the drivers side? 7-8 o'clock on the pass?

That angle won't change much as you weight it. I'd move it forward, we had to do the exact same thing on Nathan's rig. That angle will provide less stability and a poor ride (IMO).

I'd say the shackle should lay back at a 30 to 40 degree angle (guessing).......even like 5 o'clock on the driver's side (and I have no idea if "5 o'clock" and "30 degrees" are even close LOL). IOW, just eye-ball it and call it good, that's all I ever did LMAO

Oh, and don't listen to me, I have no idea what I'm talking about :goodfinge

Originally posted by Keith_L
I have no idea if "5 o'clock" and "30 degrees" are even close

They're actually the same. Good work.

just eye-ball it and call it good, that's all I ever did LMAO Thanx for the advice Keith. Sounds like you and I work alot alike! :D

Originally posted by BigNorm
Thanx for the advice Keith. Sounds like you and I work alot alike! :D

When we recently did a rear shackle flip on Dave's Bronco, he pulled out my framing square and was measuring off the old holes to position the new hangers properly. I told him I was impressed, I had never used a square before on anything for my Bronco......at which point he said he'll never be riding in my rig! LMAO

As long as the shackle is slightly forward or aft of 90 degrees while static (vehicle weight on it) it will be fine. My fab guys at work prefer them forward.

Mine was about 10 degrees forward when we started, but now that the springs have settled, they are around 5 degrees.


Here is full flex with the springs brand new:
http://chrisb.users.superford.org/Projects/SAS_43.JPG

Originally posted by bronco boy
As long as the shackle is slightly forward or aft of 90 degrees while static (vehicle weight on it) it will be fine. My fab guys at work prefer them forward.

What? Slightly forward of 90? Knowing how the axle moves when you hit bumps on the highway, I just can't see that being a good thing.

Nonethless, your shackle setup is considerably different and arguably more stable than mine or Swamp's. I still very very much believe he wants that shackle back some, it will slightly reduce the leverage the shackle has on the hanger. And Swamp, I'd move that pivot hole up personally. The tabs on that hanger are long enough they make me concerned. But again, this is just my opinion and I have no formal training in such matters.

:doh: See what happens when you type and don't think. :D

Replace "90 degrees" with "vertical", and thats what I meant.

Originally posted by bronco boy
Replace "90 degrees" with "vertical", and thats what I meant.

Slightly forward of vertical? If so, why?

man all the pics in the first few pages are all of something different, if it isnt too much of a bother, do you guys mind fixing em, so poeple can see what is realy going on

Originally posted by Keith_L
Slightly forward of vertical? If so, why?

Cuz I was told so. ;)

I believe it was for the performance of the shackle. Hang tough til tomorrow as I don't know for sure myself. After I ask the boys at then I can impress the hell out of ya. :D

Originally posted by bronco boy
Cuz I was told so. ;)

I believe it was for the performance of the shackle. Hang tough til tomorrow as I don't know for sure myself. After I ask the boys at then I can impress the hell out of ya. :D

It's gonna have to be really good. Think about it, when you hit a bump driving forward the spring compresses and the shackle swings back. Now, the "tallest" point of shackle's travel is when its' vertical, so if it's slightly forward of that, it actually has to try to *lift* the truck so it can breakover and start swinging back.

hey you guys that have done this, hows the ride on the street at high way speeds and around town?

stable? im sure the roughness or smoothness is due to the springs that were choosen, but im more concerned with the stablitly, handling.

since most people plan to build a dual purpose rig, good street manors are really important for a DD

Um.... I'd have to say... "better than TTB ever was"... how's that?

Originally posted by Keith_L
It's gonna have to be really good. Think about it, when you hit a bump driving forward the spring compresses and the shackle swings back. Now, the "tallest" point of shackle's travel is when its' vertical, so if it's slightly forward of that, it actually has to try to *lift* the truck so it can breakover and start swinging back.


True, but it can work the same way if the shackle is rearward. Under extension you will also hit that "tallest" point. ;)

I talked to the boys at work today and they say rearward is better, but forward if fine also. Look at Chevy's, they are forward.

And Keith gets a prize cuz he guessed the reason correctly. :thumbup

Originally posted by blueoval78
hey you guys that have done this, hows the ride on the street at high way speeds and around town?

stable? im sure the roughness or smoothness is due to the springs that were choosen, but im more concerned with the stablitly, handling.

since most people plan to build a dual purpose rig, good street manors are really important for a DD


What Shawn said, times 10! :D Way more stable on and off road. Leafs are a little rougher on the street, but it is a truck.

The ride is stiffer. Stability, handling way better. More responsive, crisper, doesn't wander, doesn't "wallow" (ever notice how TTB gets sketchy when crossing rough train tracks, etc). Handles better, corners as good with no sway bar as TTB did with a sway bar.

Other advantages of any SAS: setting toe is the only major concern, centering the steering wheel doesn't affect toe, and jacking up the front of the truck is WAY easier. I could go on and on.............

Hey guys I was wondering if I did my swap like Keith L and using the f350 leafs what will I need to do or how will I achieve a 10inch lift what leafs will I need or how much ark will I need to put into the f350 leafs?

Hey guys I was wondering if I did my swap like Keith L and using the f350 leafs what will I need to do or how will I achieve a 10inch lift what leafs will I need or how much ark will I need to put into the f350 leafs?

The swap plus 3-4" lift leaves should net 10"

How is the turning radius?

so Keith L you think if i buy 6" front leaf springs for the f350 and use them with my swap it will be some what around 10 inches. im just thinking stock leafs will give me 3-4 and if i get a 6inch over stock for the f350 that will give me 9-10 inches. sound about right?

or should i just get the original f350 leafs rearchedto match the 6inch lift and the comv. 4inches will give me the 10inches im looking for.

Stock F350 leaves with a shackle reversal should give you 6-7" of lift.

Shawn- do you have the crumple zone on your frame? Has anyone done leafs on a crumple zone either sleeving it or cut/weld in a new front section?

Shawn- do you have the crumple zone on your frame? Has anyone done leafs on a crumple zone either sleeving it or cut/weld in a new front section?

You're kidding right? Post #7:

http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12225

And Beerman started a whole thread on it, that's just the most recent discussion of it.

Shawn's got a '90 like me, no crumple zones.

Yeah, what Keith said.

And if I had to do it all over again, I'd go coils. In fact, I may go coils once a few other projects are out of the way.

why whats up you dont like ur leafs?

http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=77482&toggle=fullsize&f=frame002.jpg




bringing up an old one.

Ok, Im heading for the darkside. Andy and I are going to get started on his SAS here pretty quick, and he wants leaves.

I know that keith and a few others have boxed the frame and then hung the front hangar, but what about if you took a 2x3 piece of square tube the width of the inside frame to inside frame to make a cross member, and then welded on like 3 x 5 peices of flat stock (rough numbers here, but something that would fit inside the frame rail) to either end of the xmember. then that crossmember could bolt on to the frame with two bolts on top of the cross member, and one on either side. )

Now, if you notched the lower portion of the frame so the tube would sit flush or just below the bottom of the frame rail, you would have perfectly level surfaces for both hangars to sit. It would not require the ears of the hangar to go up the side of the frame at all, and you could weld the hangar onto the x member, or bolt it with two bolts from underneath. So now, everything could be bolt on (though i would still like to run a few short beads just to secure things that could be ground off if you needed to remove everything.) The hangars could be adjusted in and out easily, as well as fore and aft the size of the tube.

Clear as mud? those that have done the leafs please chime in.

Keith L, you have emails.

Berne made a custom front mount for Kurt's rig. We cut the front frame horn completely off. Then Berne fabbed up the hanger, with .25" plate on either end that was ground to fit the taper of the frame end. He welded up a piece of 2x3 (or maybe it was 2x4) of box steel to the ends, and then welded C-channels on for the front hangers.

I'll have to look, I've got pics somewhere I think...

Bob

Yeah, I see what you're getting at. It sounds a little like the ORU shackle reversal kit. I started to wonder about whether or not you'd want it bolted in two planes, but if it through-bolted with the bumper, it would probably be fine.

That's actually the only place I see a problem -- how do you secure it so that the bumper can be removed, and not require removing the bolts that hold the crossmember to the truck? A couple of beads would probably do the job... but then I start to think about just welding the whole thing on. ;)

http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=81913&toggle=fullsize&f=.jpg

youll have to use your imagination, but I was thinking of using a x member like this.

http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=140164&toggle=fullsize&f=.jpg

the hangars could be moved as needed, and I was thining that I would just measure the spring perch distance on the axle, and make sure that front hangars are the same distance.

and then the end caps could be cut to shape and the circles ould represent here the bolts are. This is the drivers side, so the bolt holes could still be used to mount the bumper (tho i doubt he plans on keeping the stock bumper down the road)

http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=140163&toggle=fullsize&f=.jpg


Am I way off here? This sure seems like ti would be an easy sulution. Not sure it would be easier than boxing it, but maybe and adds lots of strength as far as I can tell

That's exactly the setup Kurt had. We used cardboard to make the template for the end plates that sit inside the frame.

I think it is by far the best setup for the 80's up front end.

Bob

Hey Bob...did you find those pics yet?

Still lookin'

http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=130219&toggle=fullsize&f=.jpg
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=130220&toggle=fullsize&f=.jpg
http://www.superford.org/getfile.php?id=140200&toggle=fullsize&f=.jpg
You would have to move the assy back some if you were to go with F350 front leafs but it would work the same I think. I like the 2x4 square tube that someone used too.

That's exactly the setup Kurt had. We used cardboard to make the template for the end plates that sit inside the frame.

I think it is by far the best setup for the 80's up front end.

Bob


does kurt still have a write up page somewhere, or did he get rid of it when he sold the bronco?

His pics all got deleted by Superford, and he never put them back

It's a shame, too. I gave him all the pictures I had taken. So, it's all a memory now.It was fun working on his Dana 60 install.

Bob

nothing on 2bb?

Naw, Kurt started to lose interest in his rig about the time we got all the mods done. So, there are not many pics around. I've got pics of every thing we did to his rig here at my place. The front end work was done at Rade's.

Bob

It's a shame. Wild Horses was an inspiration to me in working on my own stuff.