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Can Clutch Switch(M5OD) mimic dead Battery problem?

9K views 57 replies 10 participants last post by  kawamatt2 
#1 ·
OK, for the past few weeks, I've had to depress the clutch a couple if times to get the Bronco to crank. I would depress the clutch, turn the key and nothing would happen. All I would get was hearing the fuel pump pressurize the system. I would keep the key turned, press the clutch again and it would crank right up.

Yesterday, I got to spend a couple of hours waiting for a tow truck. I got in the Bronco after a short drive and pressed the clutch, turned the key and nothing. Pressed the clutch again and Nothing. Pressed it again and NOTHING!!!!



This isn't how I wanted to spend my one day off.

OK, so I am speculating it has something to do with the switch/contact in the clutch pedal that makes it mandatory to press in the clutch to crank the engine. I noticed a couple of times when I tried to crank the engine and pressed the clutch in with the key turned that the RPM needle bounced hard, maybe up to 4K or higher. It was a quick movement and had I not been looking at it, would have never seen it. the whole thing is acting like a dead battery except that the radio, lights and everything else work fine. I tried jump starting it with the Ram and still nothing happened. No clicking, no turning over of the engine, nothing except the lights got a little brighter when it was hooked up to the Ram.

Any possibility of it also being the Starter solenoid instead? What's the best way for me to start looking/testing instead of just throwing parts at it? No corrosion on the battery to speak of. I really haven't had a chance to start looking into it yet but will hopefully if I am off on July4th.

Thanks All.
 
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#2 ·
Yes since the clutch interlock IS a starter interlock, it can keep the starter from engaging when you turn the key if it malfunctions.

The tach jumping is strange though. never heard of that one. :scratchhe

it could be the starter relay, but since the issue would be dependent upon the clutch being hit a couple times, i would start there.

bypass the clutch interlock and see what happens, it's only a couple wires. how, i am not exactly sure.

off topic: you couldn't find a couple of dudes to push the truck so you could pop-start it?
 
#3 ·
Naw. You would think being at a Lowe's, there would be plenty of people there to help. Just didn't feel like asking at that time of day. Besides, we have towing and roadside assist on our insurance. Might as well use it.

There was another Bronco I saw there with Wisconsin plates and the guy just looked at me and shook his head as he drove by. The F'er........
 
#4 ·
All the Clutch Pedal Position switch does (to the starter circuit) is interrupt power between the ig.sw. and the starter relay when the CPP doesn't indicate the pedal is FULLY depressed. That might be because your carpet is folded down behind the pedal, preventing you from fully depressing it; or because the switch is maladjusted, and doesn't indicate the actual position; or because the switch is bad. To find out, remove the switch (slide the catch plate back and it falls off the rod), and operate it manually while testing continuity (Ohms, diode) between the proper terminals.

.

If it passes, check for 12V on the #1 R/LB wire with the key in START. If that passes, the fault may be in the starter relay. Jumper from the large REAR post to the small post; it should click solidly, and the starter should immediately engage the engine.

.

If not, the fault is in the starter.
 
#5 ·
All the Clutch Pedal Position switch does (to the starter circuit) is interrupt power between the ig.sw. and the starter relay when the CPP doesn't indicate the pedal is FULLY depressed. That might be because your carpet is folded down behind the pedal, preventing you from fully depressing it; or because the switch is maladjusted, and doesn't indicate the actual position; or because the switch is bad. To find out, remove the switch (slide the catch plate back and it falls off the rod), and operate it manually while testing continuity (Ohms, diode) between the proper terminals.

.

If it passes, check for 12V on the #1 R/LB wire with the key in START. If that passes, the fault may be in the starter relay. Jumper from the large REAR post to the small post; it should click solidly, and the starter should immediately engage the engine.

.

If not, the fault is in the starter.
that really goes to show how simple the starting system is on these trucks.
 
#6 ·
All Broncos are wired for the clutch switch. When an automatic is installed, they have a plug they put in the clutch switch socket of the wiring loom. Go to a junk yard and pull this plastic plug out of an automatic truck. Put it in the plug of your truck, and it completes the starting circuit, eliminating that switch. All you'll have to remember is to put your trans in neutral before starting, and you'll avoid another "Nanny State" device to protect you from yourself ;~)
 
#7 ·
...it completes the starting circuit, eliminating that switch. All you'll have to remember is to put your trans in neutral before starting, and you'll avoid another "Nanny State" device to protect you from yourself
That will also interfere with the EEC's strategies for timing, fuel mix, idle control, and some others. These old EECs need the clutch switch to be open from the starter relay trigger most of the time, and connected only when the pedal is down.

In other words: fix it right - don't install the wrong part.
 
#10 ·
thank you
 
#13 ·
#14 ·
S%$& - duplicate post
 
#16 ·
Just a heads up if the clutch switch, ignition actuating rod or the silinoid on the fender ever fails on you- put the truck in neutral, put the ebrake on, pop the hood and jump the two big terminals on the fender mounted silinoid with anything metal. If its not the starter it will fire right up, no need for a tow truck next time.
 
#17 ·
I tried the jumper trick and it acted like a dead battery. Tried jump starting it with the Ram and still nothing. I'll take the starter off Sunday when I'm off and get it tested.
 
#18 ·
Well, got the starter out and took it to Advance to get tested. Not only did it fail, it shorted out bad enough it caused the breaker in the store the machine was plugged into to trip. I picked up a new remanned one with the lifetime warranty using the discount codes and saved about $50(including core).

Interesting note I discovered. Apparently Ford changed from the spade connector to a sealed hard wired connection so I have to cut/splice/heat shrink the new connection.
 
#19 ·
OK, got the Starer replaced , now another question....

OK, Replaced the starter. Took about 40 minutes total time from removal to reinstall. It cranks much quieter now. Much more than I remember it ever doing.

I do have to hit the clutch twice to gt it to crank though.

If I have the clutch pressed and turn the key, nothing happens. I leave the key turned and press the clutch again and it cranks like a new Bronco.

Could the clutch switch maybe have caused the problem with the starter? Either way, I have a lifetime warranty on it so I won't be out anything but a few minutes. But, if it could, I may as well replace the CPP switch also just to save some future grief. The starter solenoid was replaced a couple of years ago when I though that was a problem, only to find out the Neg- cable was nearly corroded through.
 
#44 ·
OK, Replaced the starter. Took about 40 minutes total time from removal to reinstall. It cranks much quieter now. Much more than I remember it ever doing.

I do have to hit the clutch twice to gt it to crank though.

If I have the clutch pressed and turn the key, nothing happens. I leave the key turned and press the clutch again and it cranks like a new Bronco.

Could the clutch switch maybe have caused the problem with the starter? Either way, I have a lifetime warranty on it so I won't be out anything but a few minutes. But, if it could, I may as well replace the CPP switch also just to save some future grief. The starter solenoid was replaced a couple of years ago when I though that was a problem, only to find out the Neg- cable was nearly corroded through.
I didn't read the complete thread, but if everything has tested out good...it may be the actual ignition box mounted on the underside of the column. I say that because mine acted up on me very similar...shortly after, the pin holding the plastic actuator rods got f'd up and the truck wouldn't shut off on me. I could start it, but the rods where not connected anymore. (if you do end up finding everything ok, there is a write-up in the write-up fourm)

Good luck.
 
#20 ·
i'd go to the junkyard and get another clutch interlock switch.

you are the first time i've ever heard about one failing, in any type of vehicle, ever.
 
#22 ·
I did notice a little bit of wiggle in the assembly the other day when I was under there looking for the CPP. I'm thinking, with the squeaking that was going on before, the bushing there may no longer be there or at least is well worn. I guess I'm going to have to remove the whole thing to look it over good.
 
#23 ·
OK, picked up the Bushing kit at the local dealership today. $20, not bad considering I was expecting more. It has 4 different polyurethane looking pieces in it. Now I just need to figure out the easiest way to tear it apart to replace the bushings.

Any advice? Will I need to readjust the clutch after I do this? Brake?

I'm going to have to wait a few weeks until I'm off all weekend and not still doing Little League so I have some time to sit on it.
 
#24 ·
No advice on how to change it, but the clutch has no adjustments, it does that automatically
 
#25 ·
OK, good to know. I wasn't sure if tearing the 92 and later assembly apart was any different from the older units and if there was anything special I needed to do other than unbolt, disassemble, repair/replace and reverse.

If it looks like something that's technical once I tear into it, I'll try to remember to take a picture or three and do a writeup.
 
#26 ·
I had to replace the pivot bushings. Got the Dorman kit and the bushings would never stay in. I ended up with a washer and c-clip holding it on. Been that way for 3 years now.

You might need to adjust the CPP, if I remember right, it can rotate around the push rod.
 
#28 ·
#27 ·
I bought the kit that replaces all the bushings and not just the end cap pieces.

The Ford Kit F3TZ-2C342-A only cost $20. It replaces the end bushings and the inner white nylon bushings. I found a thread on FTE where a guy did a writeup on the replacement. I just need to see how to remove the pedal box and I'll be golden.

Here's the FTE Thread:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/982169-neals-pedal-box-bushing-install-pic-heavy.html
 
#29 ·
OK, took me about 3 hours to do it, but that included going back inside to cool off a bit. Working in the FLorida Sun is a real Bitch to say the least. Also, 6'3" and just over 300lbs now, doesn't lead to easy access under the dash. I guess I could have taken out the drivers seat to give me more room but I didn't. Next time I have to replace the Clutch rod side bushing, I'll probably go the extra mile and do it.

I'll add a few photos I took and do a simple writeup on it here in awhile. There's a few otehr pointers I figured out along the way.
 
#30 ·
I'm not redoing an already pretty good writeup found over on FTE found HEREl. Just adding a few bits and pieces to the puzzle.

2 bolts located in the Top of the firewall. These are either 9 or 10mm. I don't recall now. In Steve83's previous he said 8, maybe they changed in later years as mine is a '92


4 13mm nuts holding the Brake Master cylinder and the housing against the firewall. Before I took this picture, I had already removed the Hair/cotter pin and Brake pedal switch off the pedal stub and slid the actuator off the pedal.


Save these along with a black bushing that fits into the Brake Pedal bushing(not pictured) as these are not included in the repair kit and will need to be reused.


Now go under the hood and use a 13mm wrench to remove the two nuts holding the Clutch Master Cylinder. Now the pedal housing is free and can be removed.


Pedal Housing ready to be broken down


18mm wrench to remove the nuts holding the shaft and pedal onto the housing.


OUt of Round area. Apparently a problem with these housing and was repaired later by using a brass bushing and increasing the metal around the area of the hole also in later models.


Bushing repair kit. This is the kit that has the large white bushings and the one black bushing that goes on the left hand side.


Unit back together and ready for re-install.


Tip, use a pair of Channel Lock pliers to remove the spring from the clutch pedal. Compress the spring and you can move the catch from under the pedal and it will remain attached at the bottom to the housing.
 
#31 ·
2 bolts located in the Top of the firewall. These are either 9 or 10mm. I don't recall now. In Steve83's previous he said 8, maybe they changed in later years as mine is a '92.
If they're not 8, they're definitely 10. The only 9s are on some dash pads.
18mm wrench to remove the nuts holding the shaft and pedal onto the housing.
Remember that Ford says NOT to reuse that clutch lever. Considering the reason for this repair, it's a good idea to replace it, anyway. They're not expensive.
 
#32 ·
My clutch lever as attached to the shaft and appeared to be one piece. Maybe it was a factory press fit and I didn't really look at it hard enough to sort that out. With the way the area was deformed, I'll probably be replacing that bushing again within a year or so. I'll make certain I replace it then.

THanks again for the help and input. It cranks now without a hiccup.
 
#34 ·
I'm wondering a couple of things in regard to fixing the work pedal housing. I read in another post, either here or over on FTE but can't remember the exact details. Either Ford came out with a brass bushing repair or perhaps others had just used a Brass Bushing to repair the now oblong hole. Can you verify truth to this or not?

Also, somewhere in my searches, I'd read that apparently Ford corrected the issue with this in later models by increasing the amount of metal in those areas of the housing. What year did they make that change and is it still compatible with the older model as far as bolt pattern and such? I figure, if/when I have to replace the bushing on the right side again I may as well pick up a replacement housing from the newer model and, hopefully, not have to worry about doing it all over again.
 
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