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Transmission swap to ZF5

16K views 38 replies 13 participants last post by  oldrojo 
#1 ·
OK so my Mazda M5OD manual trans started to hum and wherr and become hard to get into reverse and first gear,vibrate between 4th and 5th(OD) gear......and to think it only has 201,683.0 miles on it....:twak....and when I'm wheeling, I beat the hell out of it....so it's finally worn out. :duh
I did the due dillegence and found a good company to buy a rebuilt ZF5 transmission from......:rofl:....decent price.....decent shipping price....the correct ZF trans...:smilie_slap...so I bought it.
I started my install today.....I will post pics after I get it completely installed and let you know if I have any problems. :beer
Stay tuned....:rockon
 
#9 ·
Burque's are just that way. LOL ;)

-------------------------

Ol'Jo, you gonna use an engine hoist?



I made the mistake of putting the rear chain too far back and it bumped
into the sheet metal at the rear and had to move it forward while-trying
to lift it and so did a sloppy job of moving it.

Next time I'll put the rear chain that far back like it is there, except behind
the drain plug. See it? :) It's obvious as anything while dropping one but
not as obvious when lifting a different model into place. LOL :)

Also do yourself a big favor and make a set of these, made mine in '79...


7/16" coarse thread ~6" long, you don't need to dog nose 'em like I did. ;)

See one in action up there? The ZF slid up to there with a simple push of
a foot, no wrestling it into place trying to get it to line up etc. Pins work
great while pulling one by yourself too.

I made another about a 1/2" shorter that I haven't used yet.
Do that. Make 'em about a 1/2" different in length.

Gonna make another short one and give a set to my son, he's got a '75
F250 "farm truck" going for the fun of it, that was given to me for parts.

With an engine hoist and those pins, it's an easy one man operation!

Alvin in AZ
 
#3 ·
yo,
It would be goo to post the install in the Tech Section;
I have some Install LINKs in my site @ http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php?index=55
such as (Hot Links for all are there)

S5-42 Swap from E4OD in a 95
Source: by Broncobabe (Miss Kitten)

S5-42 Swap from E4OD in a 93
Source: by lifeizhard102205 at FSB

S5-42 Swap from E4OD Parts List in a 94
Source: by Franklin (Jeff) at FSB

S5-42 Shifter Parts Diagram
Source: by Steve83

S5-42 (7003) Parts Break-Out Diagram, Service Tips & Troubleshooting Guide; 07-03B-17 1994 Econoline / F-150, F-250, F-350 / Bronco / F-Super Duty Powertrain, Drivertrain Aug 1993
S5-42 Troubleshooting Guide TSB 90-15-11 for 87-91 BRONCO, F & E Series
Source: by Ford

S5-42 (7003) Disc, Pressure Plate & Slave Cylinder Replacement & Parts Break-Out Diagram in 96 Bronco & F-150, F-250, F-350, F-Super Duty Chassis Cabin 96 Bronco & F-150, F-250, F-350, F-Super Duty Chassis Cab
Source: by Ford

S5-42 Tips; "...There are three rubber plugs on top of the transmission that leak fluid only when the truck is in motion so when parked there will be no tell tail signs of a leak. You can replace the plugs yourself or take it to the dealer and have them check it for fluid lose and replace the faulty plugs but it's not cheap. Thing is, the seals are going to fail and if caught to lateas in my case cost you a bundle. Another set back for theback yard mechanic is the bleeding of the slave cylinder. If not done exactly correct your clutch will not work no matter how much you bleed it. Bleeding the slave cylinder, which is inside the transmission and not on the outside like older ones, relies more on gravity to bleed and not pumping. It's just a big pain in the ass actually and it will test your patience.
Source: by WooleyBugger at wooleysrant.blogspot.com

ZF S5-47 Diagnosis & Testing,Overview & Parts Break-Out Diagram, Service Tips & Troubleshooting Guide
Source: by ZF

ZF, all ZF Loctite Sealant Usage TSB 94-17-13 for Vehicles Built From 2/2/94

GL!
 
#11 ·
I have the ZF in my bronco now and had the m5 in a 4.0 ranger. I can tell you this the only feeling that is even close between the two is the shift knob. First gear is only good for crawling. To much of a jump between 1st and 2nd to use regularly. So now you have three speed with overdrive. I drive a lot of city type driving. Once moving with a 351w, 33's and 3.54's I am in 3rd and 4th lot from 15-60mph until the roads open up. The ranger I could use a lot more of the gears because they were closer together. My engine doesn't care if lug it down below 1000 rpm and accellerate. It is not a performance feeling trans, it is a truck tranny.
 
#21 ·
OK, so last Wednesday my friend and I started the install. I was too busy turning wrenches to take pictures of the actual turning of the wrenches but you guys get the idea.:twak
My buddy wanted to pull the carpet and access panel on the floorboard of the Bronco but I told him no. This swap.....on my '94 302 M5OD to ZF5-s42 IS A DIRECT SWAP!!!!! follow the proceedure of a clutch replacement.
When I received the rebuilt trans and set it side-by-side to my M5OD it looked alot bigger overall so at first I was worried that I would have to modify my exhaust.

BUT again you guys and gals on the FSB forum were correct as always, no mods were made in the hanging of this trans.....:thumbup










During my due dilligence I read about alot of guys having trouble getting the quick connect off of the slave cylinder, and in fact I had trouble doing the same. I bought the special Ford tool for separating the quick connect and I worked it for what seemed like quite a while then gave it to my friend to try and when he crawled under the truck he had it disconnected in one second. Apparently just keep working it and it will separate with very little force just the right angle of pull.
My clutch was worn about 50%....so I went ahead and replaced the cluth disc, pressure plate, slave cylinder, and pilot bearing, basically a full clutch job as well as the transmission but I didn't want to do the job twice.
Alvin in AZ.....I just used a floor jack to stab that trans but I also had someone working with me so it was easier than doing it alone. Those line-up pins look like a good idea when working alone.
I guess the only thing I did have to modify was that the ZF5 trans has a slightly thinner bell-housing than my old M5OD and the starter bendix would not "return" properly after each start. I had to go down to my local O'Reilly's parts store and buy a starter shim and install it...$6.00....no big deal tho.
So I put FoMoCo Mercon SP in it and started to drive it around, but man each gear was very hard to get in to. I thought that the fluid just needed to heat up, or that the fluid needed to be pumped around inside the tranny to make it work better so I drove around a few blocks,having to force it into each forward gear. It seemed like it was just tight being a new rebuild I thought it would get better as I broke it in so I drove it back to my driveway and put in in neutral and let out the clutch and WOAH...the damn thing wanted to go forward....IN NEUTRAL....I put it in reverse and it wouldn't move, it wouldn't roll, so I had to give it gas and it feels like it wants to go forward as well as reverse....WTF...
I called another friend of mine to come over and check it out, he thinks it's trying to grab OD and REVERSE at the same time.
I called the tranny shop and told them my problem and they want me to use 85/90 gear lube instead of Mercon. "It needs to be broken in".....he said to drive it some more, so I did.
I like the way it feels compared to my Mazda trans. This is a true truck transmission and it feels like one. First gear 2WH, the max speed is about 10MPH, it will get you started thru the intersection but by the crosswalk you better go to second. Second gets me to 30/35 then third gear is for around town. Fourth is for getting on the freeway on ramp and OD is for the hiway. Max speed is maybe 80 MPH on my speedo which is about 83/85 real speed because of my tire size.
Overall I like this trans, but my builder has got to fix what is wrong with neutral and reverse.
I will keep you all informed.
Has anyone ever had to "break-in" a rebuilt trans before???
 
#22 ·
Your first picture is cool. :)
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/oldrojo/ZFswapfromM5OD001.jpg

Really shows the size=strength difference between the two.

And it's cool how your 4wd transmissions swapped perfect. :)

2wd ones don't swap so easy because the Mazda has a built
in slip joint like an automatic so the ZF doesn't just bolt up to
the Mazda's driveshaft.

-----------------

A transmission rebuilder on Fordification.com sez the Mazda
can be built to handle more than stock and he does that for
his own uses (towing vehicles on a trailer) that's because the
close ratio is better suited to the work. So when arguing the
strength of an M5OD-R2, what all's been done to it needs to
be part of it or you're just talkin' crap. ;)

He also claimed that a clue to transmissions strength was to
compare the space between the two shafts = gear size etc.
Not perfect, just quick and easy.

Alvin in AZ
 
#23 ·
Your first picture is cool. :)
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/oldrojo/ZFswapfromM5OD001.jpg

Really shows the size=strength difference between the two.

And it's cool how your 4wd transmissions swapped perfect. :)

2wd ones don't swap so easy because the Mazda has a built
in slip joint like an automatic so the ZF doesn't just bolt up to
the Mazda's driveshaft.

-----------------

A transmission rebuilder on Fordification.com sez the Mazda
can be built to handle more than stock and he does that for
his own uses (towing vehicles on a trailer) because of the
close ratio is better suited to the work. So when arguing the
strength of an M5OD-R2, what all's been done to it needs to
be part of it or you're just talkin' crap. ;)

He also claimed that a clue to transmissions strength was to
compare the space between the two shafts = gear size etc.
Not perfect, just quick and easy.

Alvin in AZ
ps- From the '91 Ford Service Manual...
M5OD = manual 5 speed with overdrive
M5OD-R2 = Mazda (guys shorten it to M5R2)
M5OD-HD = ZF-S5

Yeah.....as you mentioned, you want to buy/find the FWD transmission to get a direct bolt up.;)
 
#25 ·
I'm pretty sure I read everything and I didn't see it but I may have missed it...What were the actual parts required to do the swap, aside from the trans and clutch themselves. I'd like to do this to mine since my M5-R2 is pretty well shot and IMO the ZF is a much better trans but don't know everything I need to get.
 
#26 ·
What were the actual parts required to do the swap, aside from the
trans and clutch themselves.
For a 4wd swap it's straight across and the only thing I've read about has
something to do with a different connector for the slave cylinder. So you
might need new hydraulic line from the master to the slave?

------------------------------

Here's my E4od to ZF "store bought" parts list...

Rockauto: I searched under '90 F250 (parts truck)
RhinoPac clutch kit 07057 $115 (LuK disc + diaphragm pressure plate)
RhinoPac slave S0707 $76
RhinoPac master cylinder M0706 $37
---> Dorman hydraulic line 628203 $28 <---

Chris' Machine Shop:
~$25(?) to resurface the flywheel

McMaster-Carr:
6003 sealed ball bearing for clutch pilot bearing 6661K86 $22

Summit Racing:
ARP pressure plate bolts 250-2201 $11
ARP Pro-Series flywheel bolts 350-2802 $17

-------------------------

Pressure plate bolts have a shoulder on them, they ain't ordinary bolts, do
yourself a favor and get some. I reused the old ones last time but I was
just slapping it back together temporary, a year ago. ;) Pretty quick I'll be
tearing into it again. ;)

Alvin in AZ
 
#27 ·
So...Here it is March 2012 and I just realized I didn't "follow up"...like I said I would:
The transmission shop is Joe's Transmissions of Saxonburg, PA. Dave and Joe are the guys I've been dealing with. 866-445-3345 I recomend!!;)
I contacted them just a week after I installed the ZF5 and told them of the "hard shifting" problem. Joe said he was "trying some new copper syncro's" and that he'd thought they would be more HD than what he was using in the past. I told him it wasn't working for me and that he needed to warranty the trans.....so he did....he sent me a new rebuilt ZF5, I sent back in the ZF5 with the copper syncro's AND my core MD05 on one pallet and in about a week I had a check in my hand for the core ($250) and a new rebuilt in the truck.
I love this transmission, the low first gear is perfect with my 3:55 gear's,(I am considering going to 3:77's) but for rocks and the slow stuff that gear is just right, with alot of torque.
Since December, I have also installed a limited slip rear carrier and have tested it off road, love it. This is my trail rig so I think it's just right :rockon
 
#28 ·
So oldrojo, do you have a parts list? I also have wanted to do this but am worried about all the "little" extras that popup on a job. It looks to be the same length so I am guessing the supports are in the same place and you did not need to replace the DS.
Parts
ZF5
Clutch stuff
shim for starter
tool for the hydro line
anything else we need to know about? Yours is the first I have read that does the m05 to ZF5. If you do not mind some ball park prices would be a wonderful thing always good to have the ideas of that before I make up my mind to do something. Then if you want to drive up to CO and put it in for me...:rofl:
 
#29 ·
lol...."drive to Colorado to put it in for you".....
The clutch pack (clutch disc/pressure plate) was like $165
The thow-out bearing assembly was like $50
The hydraulic line tool was $10
starter shim kit $7
and I had to buy the Mercon tranny fluid because it came shipped dry, I think they were about $8 each and it took 3.5 quarts (I think)
So you'll have aprox $240 in additional expenses with odds and ends
I bought the rebuilt ZF5 for $1195, but they gave me $250 back on the MD05 core, so I'm in the trans for about $900.....not bad considering I couldn't find anything in New Mexico....:rockon
 
#31 ·
Yes....$1195.00 up front, then $250 back on a core, plus freight to your location ($100)......with a one year warranty.....it's Joe's Transmission Service
#8664453345......in Saxonburg, Pennsylvania. (Pittsburg)
I really like the 5:72 to 1 first gear. Great for slow crawling on rocks!!;)
 
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