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Pinion nut

4K views 34 replies 6 participants last post by  helirich 
#1 ·
I took a look under my truck before a long trip. While checking the driveshaft for loose u-joints, I noticed the pinion nut had backed off a little.

The right way to deal with this is to replace the nut and crush sleeve. But you have to remove the carrier to torque the nut correctly. I wasn't really in for a two+ hour job, so I just tightened it. Not much tech here but I highly recumend making one of these. It's just 1/2" by 2 1/2" flat bar with a couple holes.



It was allot better and I made my trip with no problem. I will fix it right later. Now for the question. Does anyone know if the crush sleeve work hardens? Although I got it tighter, it never got all the play out of the pinion. I was really reefing on it with a long cheater. Seemed like it just stopped.
 
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#4 ·
I have replace a lot of pinion seals and never had a problem, no reason to change the crush sleeve unless there is another problem. The pinion is supposed to have some play in it, that's the backlash between the pinion and ring gear.
This is not just twist play. It moves a little front and back.

How much torque? A new sleeve begins to crush somewhere above 200 lb-ft.
I would think more than that. I didnt use my torque wrench. (I dont think it goes that high)


BTW
If your gears have worn enough to have some significant backlash, the pinion preload can be set with the carrier installed by only measuring the rotating torque within the backlash zone (no contact with the carrier/ring gear). OR, if the carrier & wheel bearings are well-worn, the effects of their drag will be minimal (by a factor of the gear ratio, plus a little for the gear teeth friction) on the pinion rotating torque.
I guess that could work. When I set up the gears (about 10 years ago) I used a company torque wrench. My torque wrench doesnt go down to in/lbs. (for the preload, not the pinion nut) So i guess you could say My current tq wrench doesnt go high enough for the nut and doesnt go low enough for the preload. LOL
 
#3 ·
Does anyone know if the crush sleeve work hardens?
It doesn't. Work-hardening occurs within the elastic limit of certain materials. During work hardening, the unstressed shape doesn't change because the material springs back to its original shape when the stress is removed. Crushing goes beyond the elastic limit (by definition) into the plastic range. Plastic deformation destroys work hardening.
I was really reefing on it with a long cheater.
How much torque? A new sleeve begins to crush somewhere above 200 lb-ft. An old one may crush slightly lower.

BTW
If your gears have worn enough to have some significant backlash, the pinion preload can be set with the carrier installed by only measuring the rotating torque within the backlash zone (no contact with the carrier/ring gear). OR, if the carrier & wheel bearings are well-worn, the effects of their drag will be minimal (by a factor of the gear ratio, plus a little for the gear teeth friction) on the pinion rotating torque.
 
#6 ·
If your gears have worn enough to have some significant backlash, the pinion preload can be set with the carrier installed by only measuring the rotating torque within the backlash zone (no contact with the carrier/ring gear). OR, if the carrier & wheel bearings are well-worn, the effects of their drag will be minimal (by a factor of the gear ratio, plus a little for the gear teeth friction) on the pinion rotating torque.
Do you suppose I could jack up the rear and see how much torque it takes to turn it with no preload. (for example 10 in/lb.) Then tighten the nut till the preload goes to 25 in/lbs. Giving a preload of 15 in/lbs.

What I'm saying is torque cumulitive?
 
#7 ·
if the pinion moves front and back then the bearing is bad. you really need to replace it and do the job right. doing it halfassed will jsut make it not reliable. my friend replaced his halfass and it blew up in less than a month
 
#11 ·
Mine was less than an 1/8".
Now is less than 1/16".
But it still is not preloaded.
Cool, I've snugged 'em up before and had 'em last years and years. :)

The crush sleeve or solid spacer is the -minimum- size -before- any
bearing wear. ;)

Tightening it down ain't gonna hurt anything as long as you don't get
carried away, IM(limited)E.

King's friend's experience could be the opposite of mine or the same. ;)
His was just too shot to go much farther -any which away-? ;)

But x2 King's warning and advice to do it right tho, at least you can
save the housing and rebuild it better than new, ...if that's your thing?

Alvin in AZ
ps HellaRich, can't find my notes or wiring diagrams since the move
-in- and so I don't know the wire colors for the defrost-power to
window-power swap. Heck, I can't even find the thread it was in! :/
No kidding. LOL :)
pps- Having heard ol'guys talk about rebuilding rear axles and setting
up the gears since I was a kid... I fiNgure that torque readings on the
carrier and pinion preloads are mostly for -books-. YMMV on that.
 
#15 ·
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I am watching this pretty close. I have a loose pinion myself and changed the crush sleeve but couldnt get it to crush. My springs just kept flexing. I will try putting something to stop the pinion from rotating up and try again when I get back. I found out this week that my bronco that I have not gotten running needs to drive cross country in March.
 
#16 ·
If you have the yoke, you can just use a big pipe wrench to hold it. I see in the video Alvin posted, they used pretty long bars. (I had a long breaker bar, but I didnt extend it with a pipe.) I cant get back on mine for another week. (at work)

Thanks for the translation
 
#17 ·
I have a large piece of flat steel that is drilled to fit the yoke and is bolted up and supported by the jack stand. It is not rotating the normal direction a pinion rotates, it is wrapping the leaf springs and rotating the entire housing. It is rotating on the same axis as the tires, not the driveshaft.
 
#18 ·
Yea lots of varibles. But if its cumalative...
But with hypoid gears, it's not...
Those variables aren't directly-proportional to the preload or to the rotating torque.
I will try putting something to stop the pinion from rotating up...
It is not rotating the normal direction a pinion rotates...
Why are you working in that direction? You're wasting your effort. Use the pinion bolts to attach a bar that keeps the pinion from rotating the SAME direction that you're torquing the nut.

 
#29 ·
Ok Steve thinking of the jack stand as a fulcrum I am seeing your point now. The shorter bar was giving me more leverage to lift the pinion than if I had a longer bar. When I get back on the project I will try and pull the rear axle to setup the crush sleeve. I have a large number of jackstands so I can use 2 under the axle tubes and one under the pinion and bar and push down on the bar from above. Will have to get a set of U-bolts, I don't like reusing them.
 
#31 ·
You dont need to remove the axle! The way your doing it the force is directly trying to rotate the axle. If you allow the brace bar to run dyagnelly down as in my first post, the force will be trying to bend the nose of the diff to the side. (I dont think thats a concern) If you dont have enough room, put the truck on ramps. With a long bar, you wont have much stroke, but you probubly want to check the preload everytime anyways.

I'm not sure I agree on the weight thing. If I can get my back flat on the floor, I can push allot more than I weigh.
 
#30 ·
Originally Posted by Alvin in AZ:
Why so little amount of room? What's in your way?
The GROUND. For a 26" breaker bar to fit straight down between the pinion
(which is below the axle centerline) & the floor, he'd have to run ~56" tires.
Think about it...
Silly me! LOL :)

I should have realized the ground is in his way in -all- directions. :)

I'll try to think clearer from now on, ok?

Alvin in AZ
 
#34 ·
For anyone that followed this. (or anyone that finds it in a search) I have an update. The tightening job I did held up fine for about a 1000 miles. But I noticed the pinion seal leaking. I think the pinion walking around when it was loose must have wrecked it.

I got a new seal and a torque wrench that goes from 10 to 30 inch pounds. First I jacked up the truck and put it on jack stands. Next I pulled the diff cover. I wanted to check for metal in the diff. (bearing break down) Also, I had done some deep water fording and wanted to see if there was any water in there. Everything looked good. My diff cover (Summit) has a magnetic plug and there was almost no fuzz on it.

The next thing I did was remove the pinion nut, flange and popped off the seal. I removed the bearing with a magnet and pulled the crush sleeve with a pic. I checked the bearing race as best I could. The race and bearing both look good. I tried the bearing without the sleeve just to make sure that it was the reason I couldnt get all the play out. (it was)

Next I installed the sleeve, bearing and seal. Oiled the flange and installed it with the nut. I used loctite and ran the nut down till I hit the sleeve. At this point I tried the torque wrench. I could rotate everything with 12 inch pounds. Thats pinion, carrier, axles and 38" tires.

That was with about a 1/16" of play in the pinion bearings. So I began tightening the nut. I had my bar from the first pic and a 3 foot bar on the socket. I was able to lay flat on my back and push up. I can press over 200 lbs. on a bench multible reps. This may not have been as comfortable, but I was surprized to find that it took just about everything I had.

I got it tight enough to remove all the play. I still had no preload. For fun I tried the torque wrench again. Now it only took about 10 inch pounds to turn everything. (go figure)

I continued to make it tighter. It takes awhile because you have such a short stroke with long bars. I got it to the point where it took 18 inch pounds to rotate everything. This is probubly not to spec (15 for just the pinion) I left it there.

I just got through with a 400 mile trip and it seems fine. If anything changes, I will post an update.
 
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