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What less than $431.29 can do for your brakes (and steering too)....

61K views 167 replies 35 participants last post by  chrisd91 
#1 ·
Weakest link in stock brakes is the booster (assuming up to about a 35"
AT type tire). Unless you road course your bronco with multiple stops from
80 MPH, I don't believe the stock bronco brakes (rotors/calipers/drums
etc..) are all that bad.

For normal driving, including the average panic
stop from 60ish MPH or less, I will put the bone stock brakes with
HB up against normal "F350 upgrade" any day. I did the math in
another thread, and it was not even close. The only people who
don't believe this are the people who have not gone HB yet.

***Cost wise***

Re-manned HB (includes core cost)-$149

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1188222,parttype,1884




EDIT: Rock auto seems to be rebuild and return service only now.
Napa has it for a bit more @ $196 including core cost.

http://napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=NBB527077_0136020531#

Another option may be the 1976 continental HB, A-1 CARDONE Part # 527077.
Sure looks identical, even has the 4 firewall studs in what look like the
correct location. It is also available as rebuild and return @ rock auto,
but Napa does have it (as of 9/7/2012)




If you are yarding, you can look in any of these.

FORD THUNDERBIRD (1975 - 1976)
LINCOLN MARK IV (1975 - 1976)
LINCOLN MARK V (1977 - 1979)

or for 527076

FORD CUSTOM (1975 - 1977)
FORD LTD (1975 - 1978)
LINCOLN CONTINENTAL (1974 - 1979)
MERCURY GRAND MARQUIS (1975 - 1978)
MERCURY MARQUIS (1975 - 1978)

------------------------------------------------------

Sag pump (includes core cost)-$46

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1188222,parttype,7380

A-1 CARDONE Part # 208606 More Info Reman. Includes Reservoir;
Does Not Include Reservoir Cap. Hydro-boost Pump has 1 Pressure
Line & 2 Return Lines; with Hydroboost

Ignore my crappy bracket.


------------------------------------------------------------

Saginaw M-block bracket- 60$ ??
Guessing since Wildhorses just came out with this, but
it is inline with their other sag brackets on price

EDIT: see posts # 73 and 84 on bracket setup that fits with AC.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Pulley-$19

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RNB-300-122



So that leaves $157 for lines/fittings, etc....
(way more than needed).

The Linc HB does come with high pressure fittings that convert to std flare
(like large brake line fittings). Only need one high pressure flexible
line that goes to from pump to HB. I made one, half and half
using 3/8 brake line for the other half.






High pressure Line from steering box to HB can be all steel
tube (again, large brake line) since body to frame flex is not
that great. May need one adapter fitting for flare into box.
Return from HB to pump is just rubber tube.

The stock MC bolts right up (fittings and all). If later on you go to T-bird
caliper/F350 wheel cyls or even full 1 ton 4-wheel disks,
you can use this stang SVO MC, which also bolts right up including
both brake line fittings.

Fenco Reman/Master Cylinder (Brake System)

For your 1986 Ford Mustang SVO 2.3L FI Turbo 4cyl
$37 (includes core cost)

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/pa...k5Z8kn47?counter=1&itemIdentifier=707281_0_0_



Obviously some mods needed to firewall to mount.
But other than 4 holes drilled in the firewall, and
possibly a spacer to get booster rod to correct
distance for brake pedal, not super fab intensive.

Oh and you just got a killer sag pump (better than most,
as it has huge reservoir and is setup for higher pressure, since it
was made for HB to begin with) and got rid of the whiny ford pump.

So it's like two mods in one.

One last benefit is valve cover clearance.
You can drop in a 460 with super tall valve
covers and still have no clearance issues.
 
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8
#145 ·
Question for Bennelton & maybe OX1... Maybe it's as painfully obvious as Bennelton's post, but:

If my stock Ford PS pump is not a whiny bitch right now, is it MANDATORY, that I upgrade to the Sag to use with OX1's HB setup?

Or, can I spend my money on the nice remanned HB unit, MC, & use the system while I save for the remaining cost of Sag pump + brackets? I assume I will still see a large performance gain with the Ford PS pump still?

In theory I don't see why it wouldn't work but I'd like to hear from someone who's done it.

Thanks!
 
#7 ·
All hydroboosts route high pressure from pump to HB and then HB to steering box.
Since the line from the HB to the steering box does not go back to the motor,
you can run it as a solid tube. If you really flex up the body doing hard core
rock crawling, then maybe I might make that line a high pressure flex line also

There are seperate return lines (low pressure) for both the HB and the steering box.
The upper return line on the pump reserv should be used for the HB, as
some HB's are sensitive about return flow and the upper return line is
the least restricted (flow wise).

 
#8 ·
Lots of different ways to do a hydroboost, but one thing is consistent....hydroboost is a huge improvement for these trucks. I like what OX has done, but I prefer the F350 swap and the hydroboost.

I caution those doing this swap to take their time and really research the bracket that adapts the hydroboost to your pedal setup. It is critical that the hydroboost not just be "bolted" to the firewall. It should be positively attached through the fire wall to the pedal assembly stamping with the equivalent of four 3/8-16 grade 5 fasteners or better. Anything less will cause the fire wall sheet metal to flex and eventually fatigue/fail.
 
#9 ·
Which 350 setup are you using? Curious what the power piston dia of that is, compared to others. When I was figuring the HB vs VAC brakes math, I found out that the HB I used (late model stang) on my early bronc and my dads "hotrod" is only about an 1 to 1-1/16 inch dia, but a late model F3/450 is upwards of 1.6 inches. I have not actually checked the piston dia of the old linc stuff, but a 76 MK IV/V weighed in at 4600 lbs, so no that far off a stockish bronc. I do like the older stuff as it is all SAE (and accepts the older MC's), but the disadvantage is how much longer will it be available. The newer stuff can be found for cheap used though, which is what I did with the stangs. Both came with MC and prop valve set up for disk, for only 125$ off flee-bay................

Good call on the firewall. The one's I have done so far just happen to mount right through the reinforced firewall (70 bronco and fox chassis LTD). The one thing I've found with the HB, is it needs a lot less pedal pressure (comparativley), so that helps with the firewall flex I'd assume...
 
#14 ·
I've got an astrovan HB unit sitting in the garage. It was going to go on my trail rig, but I just may put it on my 78 after reading this. The bonus is it will give me much more clearance for the driver side valve cover. I smashed the stock one on the huge vac booster when pulling my 351M. When I go back in with my 410M it will probably have even taller valve covers. Thanks for posting Jim.
 
#15 ·
Just keep in mind, the large MC with stock calipers/wheel cyl's may end up being touchy (overboosted feeling). With that said, you know lots of the EB guys are using the stock astro HB/MC with brakes that are pretty much the same as our fullsizes, and we don't hear massive amounts of complaints from them (which is odd actually, since pedal ratio is double normal on the early broncs, which increses the leverage even more). Plenty of cheap chevy MC's to choose from if that turns out to be the case, so not a huge deal really.
 
#19 ·
Not yet, not done with this conversion. I parted my mud bronc, so I have a semi-built 460 that
I might drop in for the heck of it. At that point I would use the 460 van sag bracket I acquired many years ago.
If I do stay 400, I will use this hacked bracket, which does fit with the york, but it angles the sag pump over to
the side a bit. I'm assuming wildhorses will eventually come out with the 400 sag bracket with air (york).
Would make sense since most guys either keep the air or use it as a compressor.




 
#17 ·
Just a little FYI-

Hydroboost feels WAY different than vacuum assist brakes. the pedal stays a little spongey. The only time it will get hard is when the truck is off and you pump the pedal to drain the accumolator.

But hydroboost is much better than a vacuum booster. Theres no way vacuum can apply more pressure than the hydraulics can
 
#21 ·


Here's a pic of my pump and the compressor. It's going to be tough to pull off that lid once I finally find my .5" to -6 adapter and get my air hose hooked up there, but it works.

Just...not quickly. You have to kinda fool with it once the lid/dipstick is loose to get it out.
 
#22 ·
This is the best fitting sag bracket with york I have found/seen
for a 400. It is a lightly modded 78, 460 van bracket.




Looks like the Wildlhorses bracket could be used with another plate, that
was wider, moving pump outboard and maybe down slightly.

 
#23 ·
You guys should seriously consider a remote reservoir for the saginaw pump. Most '90s astro vans have a remote reservoir ready "ham can" and a remote reservoir. Last time I was at the junk yard they had dozens of these.

Also, there seems to be three donor routes for hydroboost conversions in a 78-79. All use variations of the Bendix booster.

1) '90s F350
2) '70s lincoln
3) '90s Astro

All need an adapter of some kind to fit between the firewall, pedal assembly, and booster. From what everyone has said, all work very well. I am interested to know which booster is the preferred swap for the 78-79. Is there one that offers a better fit?

Having used the astro booster, I can say it works very well and the F350 master cylinder bolt pattern matches the booster. No need to slot or enlarge the master cylinder mounting holes. The downside to the astro setup is that a custom booster to master cylinder pushrod is needed. Aother downside is that the stock 78-79 master cylinder does not fit.

here is some more info on the Bendix boosters

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=610945
 
#25 ·
The remanned 70's HB I got did not come with the booster-MC rod.
I forget exactly what I grabbed one from, but I suspect it is the stock booster. I have one or 2 stock boosters kicking around, I can compare the rods and see what is up.

As for prefered. If I was going to a yard, I'd try to get the 90's setup complete with MC and anything else I could grab. I agree on the astro remote pump, especially if you eventually plan on hydro assist. I've only done HB on rigs that are never going to need hydro asist (so I had no need to remote resvr). One thing that might be tough is where to mount the remote reserv, especially if you are keeping york.

Fact is though, as much as I love HB, I will be running that big monster F350vac booster on my next crawler, as I have a 3" full hydro ram that I doubt there is any way HB will flow enough (ported or not) to use.

I am planning rear steer with an electric/hydraulic though, and thought of maybe running HB off that, especially since HB needs high pressure, but very little flow.
 
#26 ·
First let me apologize for posting my strange question in this thread. I just bought a 79 with a 70 (t-bird I believe) 429 in it. I need a new power steering pump now and I plan to go hydro boost in the future. (gm calipers on all 4 corners, I think, I will have to confirm later) I found a 1983 motorhome built on an E-350. I'm planning to go and pull the power steering pump and bracket.

1. As the E-350 has a 460 the bracket should work on my 429. Is this correct?
2. My research tells me this has a saginaw. Is this correct?
3. Any tools I should bring that I may not think of?
4. Will pulling the pump from a van be particularly painful?

Any help would be appreciated....
 
#31 ·
Will do, the only reason I'm calling them gm is because the previous owner (only owned it for a few months) thought they were.

Any help identifying them would be appreciated.

Also, will the 5/8 wrench work on the hydraulic fittings? Should I bring a line wrench?
 
#30 ·
One simple question - everyone mentions the need for an adapter to mount the HB to the firewall. Any pictures of said adapter? I assume these are all homebrew. We need someone to make these in bulk, I know a guy who makes them for Gen1 Camaros and Firebirds, can't be too hard if you have the machining equipment.
 
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