PTSD Discussion

[JuggernautXLT'88]

I'm posting this topic in the hopes of sparking an intelligent and honest discussion. I'm very curious to read the replies and thoughts of civilians, which I believe a majority of this forum to be.

For the of us on this forum that are future, current, and Veteran Military members; I'm sure this topic and discussion will be as "near and dear" to your heart, as it is to mine.

These wars (Iraq-Afghanistan) have resulted in many of my Friends/Soldiers being put in to the ground, in to treatment, or out on the street. That being said, I request this to be a "No Bashing" thread if possible, out of respect please.

Here's the article with link:

__________________________________________________ _______________

This is wrong on several levels.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/...d_discharge_010709w/

PTSD victim booted for ‘misconduct’

By Kelly Kennedy - Staff writer
Posted : Thursday Jan 8, 2009 21:01:59 EST

After serving two tours in Iraq — tours filled with killing enemy combatants and watching close friends die — Sgt. Adam Boyle, 27, returned home expecting the Army to take care of him.

Instead, service member advocates and Boyle’s mother say his chain of command in the 3rd Psychological Operations Battalion at Fort Bragg, N.C., worked to end his military career at the first sign of weakness.

In October, a medical evaluation board physician at Bragg recommended that Boyle go through the military disability retirement process for chronic post-traumatic stress disorder — which is supposed to automatically earn him at least a 50 percent disability retirement rating — as well as for chronic headaches. The doctor also diagnosed Boyle with alcohol abuse and said he was probably missing formations due to the medications doctors put him on to treat his PTSD.

But in December, Lt. Gen. John Mulholland, commanding general of the U.S. Army Special Operations Command, signed an order forcing Boyle out on an administrative discharge for a “pattern of misconduct,” and ordering that the soldier pay back his re-enlistment bonus.

Last year, after a number of troops diagnosed with PTSD were administratively forced out for “personality disorders” following combat deployments, the Defense Department changed its rules: The pertinent service surgeon general now must sign off on any personality-disorder discharge if a service member has been diagnosed with PTSD.

“Not even a year later, they’re pushing them out administratively for ‘pattern of misconduct,’ ” said Carissa Picard, an attorney and founder of Military Spouses for Change, a group created in response to the personality-disorder cases. “I’m so angry. We’re seeing it all the time. And it’s for petty stuff.”

In Boyle’s case, according to Picard and Boyle’s mother, Laura Curtiss, the soldier had gotten in trouble for missing morning formations and for alcohol-related incidents such as fighting and public drunkenness.

“The whole thing is absurd to me,” Picard said. “They acknowledge that PTSD causes misconduct, and then they boot them out for misconduct.”

Carol Darby, spokeswoman for Special Operations Command, said she could not discuss personnel administrative or medical issues, and that the Army did not have a response to the case as of Tuesday evening.

Doctors first diagnosed Boyle with PTSD after his second deployment ended in 2006, when he moved to a new unit. After he missed his first formation, he said he went in to talk to his first sergeant to explain he was having problems with depression, PTSD and insomnia. But after that, he said, no one ever asked how he was doing.

“They just said, ‘You messed up. Here’s what we’re going to do to you,’ ” Boyle said. “I would have loved it if someone had sat me down and had a heart-to-heart with me. I tried. I stuck with the counseling.”

But counseling at Fort Bragg was also difficult, he said, because there were not enough doctors for more than one counseling session a month, and because he had to explain his story to seven different therapists over two years.

He received two Article 15s, one for not reporting to duty while helping a girlfriend who had been in a car accident, and one for not returning home three days early from leave after drunk-and-disorderly conduct in a bar. Over that time, he said he was also experiencing flashbacks, anger-management and relationship issues, trust issues and guilt.

Picard said she has seen at least a dozen cases of soldiers with PTSD being pushed out for a “pattern of misconduct.”

Chuck Luther, also with Military Spouses for Change, said he’s working on four cases similar to Boyle’s now.

“I’ve seen the office of the surgeon general doing some great things,” Picard said. “But they didn’t intervene in this case. Technically, it’s OK. Morally, is it OK? No. If they’re going to call it a combat injury, they need to treat it, or else people will be afraid to come forward.”

Boyle’s mother gave another reason: “You can hear it in his voice,” Curtiss said. “He can’t believe the Army’s doing this to him. He needs counseling. He needs medication. He needs it even more now because of what they’ve put him through.”

Curtiss contacted Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., and a spokesman said the senator has been in contact with the Army several times about the case.

Boyle always wanted to be in the Army, Curtiss said, and served in junior ROTC while in high school. He planned to be an officer, worked as psychological operations sergeant, received a Good Conduct Medal and two Army Commendation medals, and wanted to spend his career in the military. Instead, he was twice diagnosed with PTSD and said he enrolled himself in the Army’s substance abuse program and went to group and individual counseling for his disorder, just as he was supposed to.

The administrative discharge means Boyle will have to prove that his PTSD is service-connected when applying for benefits from the Department of Veterans Affairs, and he’s not eligible to immediately receive the counseling he needs through the transition program for service members moving between the military and VA systems.

“The military is creating a societal issue,” Luther said. “These guys come out with no resources, and they’re angry and feeling betrayed. But commanders are thinking, ‘Do I rehabilitate him or do I get rid of him expeditiously so I can replace him with someone who can deploy?’ ”

Paul Sullivan, executive director of Veterans for Common Sense, said the Army should have provided Boyle with legal representation; that Boyle should remain in military therapy until VA processes his claim; that he should get an honorable discharge and go through the disability retirement process; and that the military needs to apply the same rules to “pattern of misconduct” as it does to personality disorders.

“The military should be concerned about the welfare of the soldier,” Sullivan said.

Retired Army Lt. Col. Mike Parker, who has worked as an advocate for service members going through the disability retirement system, said the cases are frustrating because veterans’ groups just fought to get the military to automatically award 50 percent disability ratings for people with PTSD severe enough to force them to leave the service, as is required by law. Many troops with PTSD had been receiving far lower ratings.

“Even though they have this new regulation saying they can’t kick them out for personality disorders, they can still kick them out for misconduct,” he said. “Everything they say, they have an escape clause.”

Boyle received word that Mulholland was standing behind his decision.

That means Boyle must repay the Army $18,500 for his re-enlistment bonus. The Army also withheld 65 days’ worth of leave payments and his final paycheck.

“I have nothing,” Boyle said. “After all I did for the Army, they took my money and kicked me to the curb and said, ‘Don’t let the door hit you in the ass.’ ”

[JoeBob1901]

There are bad apples in every group. We had one PFC (E-3 for non-army) that was a PFC in our unit for ~10 YEARS! This is only possible in a guard unit, and shows that the guard is hurting for numbers. He couldn't pass a PT test to save his life, and was completely worthless at his job, 63B. He pulled the "PTSD" card when we got back from overseas, and is now discharged getting money every month for doing the same amount of work as on deployment.

He never saw ANY combat, and got just as close to ANYONE else in our unit to indirect fire and direct fire. We had mortars and rockets, and a few people got hurt, but we didn't lose anyone, and we had it pretty easy on LSA Anaconda. He pulled that card so he could get the easy paycheck. People like him cause undue scrutiny for people with real issues, and real injuries. I had a broken vertebra, which was fixed by the VA and been treated since, that is still classified as "chronic lower back pain". My appeal is going up to the VA in D.C. now I guess. So many ignorant and false claims, cause longer wait times and more headaches for people with a serious issue.

PTSD is one ailment easier to fake than a broken leg. I do think that combat stresses are a very important thing to stay on top of. I personally didn't have any problems, but I know a few guys that did. They also got shot down in a Blackhawk over Iraq days after a sister battalion lost 12 people in a fiery blaze with a SAM manually aimed without guidance. That will mess with anyone. It's too bad to see them give this soldier such a hard time. Hopefully, he really does have an issue and isn't pulling the victim card. Hopefully they'll get it straightened out.

[Gacknar]

I would expect that 50% of military personnel who claim to suffer from PTSD are faking it, or are just lazy/looking for a free ride. That is from my personal experience as a civilian who knows several current, and former Military personnel, a few of whom claim to suffer from PTSD.

There needs to be a rigorous and well documented diagnoses proses for this disorder because of how easy it is to fake and be miss Diagnosed with it. That coupled with returning to the name "Shell Shock" might help deter those who would use this for personal gain and ensure that those who genuinely suffer from it receive the support that they deserve.

[Foghorn]

It's all in how you deal with things..... Some people with PTSD get along fine with no major issues, others seem unable to function. It makes diagnosis and treatment difficult to near impossible. And makes people wonder who is faking and who is'nt. The military and the VA need to get a system together to better deal with these issues. Something a little more uniform. They also need to stop punishing those who have it, how many are'nt getting help out fear of career issues??? We need to do better for our troops today than we did in the 60's and 70's............. The treatment of our troops from that era was shamefull at best.


Fog

[justin]

For every one guy that gets the shaft, 20 others got into the system with no problem. Its not perfect and getting service connections is pretty difficult without a lawyer, but people still get through. I know a lot of guys with legit PTSD symptoms and some have it pretty bad and I also know a lot of guys that are carrying that disability and are faking it.

The VA has put systems and people into place to help bridge the gap in the time between active duty and VA service. But like any other govt program, its chronically understaffed and there are increasing amounts of new veterans entering the system.

[Travver797]

Man, that's rough. I feel for Sgt. Boyle and those like him who are honestly suffering from PTSD and unable to function properly.

I am thankful for those who, like Picard, not only have the conscience but are just way too pissed off to let this just pass them by. There's a lot of nonsense that happens in the U.S. today and there needs to be more folks like her to straighten it out.

Just as a side note: I didn't have a choice to join the service when I was younger; my folks simply said, "You're going to college!" When I told them I was going to talk with a recruiter and see about financial options to pay for college I got my ass kicked up in between my shoulder blades for goodness sakes! However, there are those chosen few who do join the services and the reasons to not join are just stacking up left and right even though serving one's country is deserving of utmost respect.

Peace and prosperity are forged through power and respect. This isn't just some conservative talk - it's God's honest truth. How can we expect to be a peaceful and powerful nation if we can't offer young men and women a decent compensation package that includes treatment for injuries and ailments sustained while in service to their country?

The service straightens a lot of wayward folks out and offers them the ability to make something of themselves if they truly work hard at it. This has been the foundation for building the American Dream; pay your dues when you're young and reap the rewards of it. Sadly, I think we'll start to see a decline in the number of enlisted men and women if something isn't done about situations like this one.

God help us with our failings.

[poopy_pants]

My great Uncle Doug suffers from PTSD from the Korean War, and is also a paranoid schizophrenic. The VA takes pretty good care of him, and he gets good medical care when he actually seeks it, unfortunately he is getting old and close to the end and is less inclined to seek help. I can say, he has it, without a shadow of a doubt, because one day he is Uncle Doug, and the next I can't recognize him at all.

I just don't see the draw of claiming to suffer from PTSD without actually suffering from it. There is no honor in that, no pride. I may sound callous, and heartless when I say this, but I think many claim they suffer from it because they know nobody will question if they do. There are few "General Pattons" who will slap a soldier with his gloves because he is too sickened to touch him with his hands when they are using a real sickness to dodge commitment.

This is a hazy figure I recall from a show I watched years ago on the History Channel but recall fairly well, there was a study done after WWII on the effects of "shell shock" as it was known at the time, such as what causes it, how long does it take, and what the symptons were. A figure the doctors and scientists came up with resulting from that study is that after ~266 or ~256 days (sorry, can't recall exactly) in a combat zone, on average, every single person will suffer from some grade of PTSD no matter how tough they were mentally. We must also realize that WWII was night and day when comparing it to Iraq and Afghanistan, the enlistments and time spent in a CZ were until that person died, was badly wounded, or the war ended. That being said, there were no IEDs, you knew the enemy and what they looked like because they wore uniforms, and you didn't necessarily have to worry about some kid pulling a grenade pin and blowing you all up.

[JuggernautXLT'88]

Originally Posted by poopy_pants

A figure the doctors and scientists came up with resulting from that study is that after ~266 or ~256 days (sorry, can't recall exactly) in a combat zone, on average, every single person will suffer from some grade of PTSD no matter how tough they were mentally.

Holy cow! Thanks for the input Poopy, but it's frightening as well as enlightening. Considering I'm pulling my 8th combat tour now, that leaves me rather nervous, knowing what I have to look forward to, most likely.

[poopy_pants]

Originally Posted by JuggernautXLT'88

Holy cow! Thanks for the input Poopy, but it's frightening as well as enlightening. Considering I'm pulling my 8th combat tour now, that leaves me rather nervous, knowing what I have to look forward to, most likely.

Keep in mind that was in WWII. The combat in WWII was much different than now. And the casualties were much greater, the odds of seeing not just one or two of your good buddies killed or injured but instead the whole platoon, including yourself, were so much higher. Very few combatants made it out of WWII unscathed. Please do not let that figure worry you, combat is different as I understand it now, as well as the treatment of any signs of PTSD. Those guys were lucky to have a roof over there heads in any given year, and would endure shellings lasting days at a time.

And when you are over there, to Iraq of Afghanistan, kill those mother****ers. And thank you for putting yourself between them, and us. Soon I hope to join you.

[justin]

Originally Posted by poopy_pants

I just don't see the draw of claiming to suffer from PTSD without actually suffering from it. There is no honor in that, no pride. I may sound callous, and heartless when I say this, but I think many claim they suffer from it because they know nobody will question if they do. There are few "General Pattons" who will slap a soldier with his gloves because he is too sickened to touch him with his hands when they are using a real sickness to dodge commitment.

Most claim it for benefit reasons with the VA. A PTSD diagnosis gives an instant service connection in the VA and makes navigating the system much easier.

[AHeavyBronc]

PTSD is very serious. I have only read about it, I've never been around someone who has it and I can't even think how bad it might be. A good movie that touches on it is Jarhead.

[LauraCurtiss]

I am the proud mom of Adam Boyle. Below is a response from Adam's attorney, Jason Perry, who took Adam's case on pro bono due to his outrage at the blatant legal errors in Adam's discharge from the military. After Jason's message is one I wrote shortly after the ArmyTimes story came out by Kelly Kennedy.

We thank the public, especially the service members and veterans (of many eras) who have shown incredible support for Adam, and so many others who have gone through the same treatment (since at least the Vietnam era to today). We are overwhelmed with the huge positive support and literally rare negatively. After all of our years of service member and veteran advocacy and being so proud of our military and country I'm starting to gain back that pride and faith I was beginning to lose after I realized this was going on with Adam. I will always be proud of our military but that does not mean we as American citizens can't play watchdog over some who use their power to hurt those who serve our country and military most loyally.
We especially thank Carissa Picard, Jason Perry, and Adam's new "Brother in Arms" Chuck Luther, who was one of the Iraqi Freedom vets in the PBS documentary that made us realize how prevalent kicking out our service members with PTSD and other combat related injuries without benefits is. Thank you. Laura Curtiss

PTSD victim booted for ‘misconduct’ ~ Response from Adam’s Attorney
Jason Perry ~ http://www.peblawyer.com/attorney_profile.html

“Adam’s attorney has identified a number of violations of Adam’s rights at the separation hearing, including…

ISSUES IN ADMINISTRATIVE DISCHARGE CASE OF SGT ADAM BOYLE

SGT Boyle’s administrative separation violated his Constitutional Due Process rights, Army Regulations, and was patently illegal.

Legal Errors

1. The Army failed to refer SGT Boyle’s case to the Physical Evaluation Board
SGT Boyle’s administrative separation is prohibited by AR 635-200, Paragraph 14–17, g., which states that in cases where a separation for misconduct is recommended by an administrative board, disposition through medical channels is required if the “Soldier has an incapacitating physical or mental illness that was the direct or substantial contributing cause of the conduct, and action under the UCMJ is not initiated. A copy of the signed decision by the GCMCA will be included with the records.” (Emphasis added). The Administrative Separation Board did not address this issue and the General Court-Martial Convening Authority (GCMCA) failed to make findings about the impact of SGT Boyle’s condition on his conduct. No signed decision by the GCMCA was included with the records.

2. The findings of the Administrative Separation Board were based on an incomplete record
The Administrative Separation Board denied SGT Boyle’s assigned military counsel’s request for a delay until records from his Medical Evaluation Board (MEB) could be submitted. The separation board convened on October 29, 2008, and the MEB was approved on the same day. The Narrative Summary, which contains the detailed findings of the MEB physician, was completed on October 23, 2008, well before the hearing. The Narrative Summary stated that SGT Boyle has Chronic PTSD, “a severe psychiatric condition,” and that his condition fails retention standards under AR 40-501. The MEB further recommended that the “Service member should be referred to the Physical Evaluation Board for further adjudication and requires the duty limitations specified on the attached DA Form 3349.” This information should have been considered by the Administrative Separation Board. It was required to have been considered by the GCMCA.

In addition, SGT Boyle’s Enlisted Record Brief (ERB) considered by the board was more than 6 months old and was incomplete. Specifically, his latest Army Achievement Medal was not listed on his brief. An updated ERB was requested by military defense counsel. This was not provided, even though this record is readily available to the command via a Department of the Army web based computer application. This failure meant that the Administrative Separation Board and the GCMCA did not have an accurate basis to make findings regarding the proper discharge characterization.

3. The Army failed to give SGT Boyle the required rehabilitative transfer
Army Regulation 635-200, Paragraph 1-16,c. requires that prior to initiating an administrative separation for a pattern of misconduct, the Soldier must be transferred to a new unit for at least 3 months to provide him an opportunity to rehabilitate. The GCMCA may waive the rehabilitation requirements “where common sense and sound judgment indicate that such transfer will serve no useful purpose or produce a quality soldier.” Id. However, in SGT Boyle’s case, no such rehabilitation or waiver was made. Furthermore, Dr. George Krolick, Ph.D.,Clinical Psychologist, stated in his May 8, 2008 evaluation that “it is likely that efforts to rehabilitate or develop this individual into a satisfactory member of the military will be successful.” Note that SGT Boyle was not alleged to have engaged in misconduct after this date and in the 9 months preceding his discharge. This shows that not only was rehabilitation likely to succeed, but that even in the absence of a rehabilitative transfer, he was actually rehabilitated.

Compounding the failure to transfer SGT Boyle prior to initiating a separation, the Administrative Separation Board found that his chain of command failed to properly address the pattern of misconduct (“what helped mitigate this was the testimony from your chain of command. We felt they could have done a better job of putting a plan of action into effect that might have prevented a pattern.” (Page 28).

4. The Administrative Separation was illegal punishment
SGT Boyle’s Commander, who initiated the separation action, testified at the separation hearing that, “The Chapter was paperwork was started because of an incident in Georgia…The Chapter is his punishment for the incident.” (Page 11, Administrative Separation Board). Since the separation action was administrative in nature and non-judicial, the procedures used to punish SGT Boyle violated the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), Article 15 (Non-Judicial Punishment). Furthermore, the punishment imposed, separation, exceeded the authorized punishment under UCMJ, Article 15.

5. The Army failed to consider military defense counsel’s appeal
AR 635-200, Paragraph 2-6., requires that any legal errors identified by the respondent must be reviewed by an officer of the Judge Advocate General’s Corps prior to approval of the case by the GCMCA. The Administrative Separation Board hearing occurred on October 29, 2008. On November 6, 2008, SGT Boyle’s military defense counsel submitted an appeal requesting retention and referral to a Physical Evaluation Board. The appeal raised the legal error in not referring SGT Boyle to a Physical Evaluation Board. It detailed his honorable service, combat service, the findings of the Medical Evaluation Board, and pointed out that all of the alleged misconduct found by the Separation Board occurred after his return from Iraq. It also detailed the proactive treatment and intervention that SGT Boyle sought to address his conditions. The defense counsel states that she was told that the case had already been approved by the GCMCA and that the appeal could not be considered. This is in spite of the fact that the GCMCA did not approve the case until December 16, approximately 5 weeks later.

6. The Administrative Separation Board and the General Court-Martial Convening Authority failed to consider SGT Boyle’s complete service record in determining his discharge characterization
AR 635-200, Paragraph 3-5 e., requires that the characterization of service “must accurately reflect the nature of service performed…The Soldier’s performance of duty and conduct must be accurately evaluated.” Paragraph 3-7 a.(2)(d), states, “Unless otherwise ineligible, a soldier may receive an honorable discharge if he/she has, during his/her current enlistment, period of obligated service, or any extensions thereof, received a personal decoration.” The ERB that was considered by the Administrative Separation Board was more than 6 months old and did not list his third award of the Army Achievement Medal, earned for his meritorious service in Iraq and during his current enlistment. To have an accurate picture of his military service, SGT Boyle earned two Army Commendation Medals, three Army Achievement Medals, and two Army Good Conduct Medals.
The dated and inaccurate ERB deprived the Administrative Separation Board and the GCMCA of the whole picture of SGT Boyle’s honorable military service. This error was a violation of his Constitutional Due Process rights and Army Regulations.

The Illegal Separation Violated SGT Boyle’s Constitutional Due Process Rights and Army Regulations
The illegal discharge was stigmatizing and therefore requires the Army to respect SGT Boyle’s Constitutional Due Process rights. Federal case law states that these rights include notice of the action and an opportunity for a hearing. Casey v. United States, 8 Cl. Ct. 234 (1985). Without going into the details, the notice given SGT Boyle was defective because the findings by the Administrative Separation Board and the GCMCA included allegations of misconduct that he was not notified of prior to his hearing. This issue aside, the hearing was defective because it did not consider the available findings of the Medical Evaluation Board, violated Army Regulations, was based on incomplete information, and failed to offer SGT Boyle an opportunity to submit matters in his defense after the findings were announced.
As discussed previously, the hearing also, separately, violated Army Regulations.

Consequences of the Illegal Discharge
As a result of his illegal discharge with a General Discharge certificate, SGT Boyle was required to repay his re-enlistment bonus of $18,500. Because he outprocessed with a debt to the Army, SGT Boyle’s last paycheck was withheld. He was stripped of his accrued leave, which he could have otherwise taken or sold back to the Army. Without an honorable discharge characterization, he is ineligible for remission of indebtedness (which would cancel his debt), and is disqualified from the federal Unemployment Compensation for Ex-Servicemembers program. His rights to healthcare, compensation, and educational benefits from the Department of Veterans Affairs are now in doubt. He was denied his rights to a Physical Evaluation Board, which could have resulted in military retirement, health care benefits, and other retiree benefits due to his PTSD and migraine-like headaches.

SGT Boyle is a decorated twice deployed veteran of the Iraq war. As a result of his combat service he was injured and developed PTSD. Instead of giving him the benefits due to him under the law, the Army illegally separated him with a stigmatizing misconduct discharge. Instead of focusing on recovering from his injuries, he now must figure out where he is going to live, what he is going to do for work, and where he is going to get the treatment he deserves. The United States Army should have helped him. It should have given him the rights due under the Constitution and Army Regulations. Unfortunately, the Army has instead pushed him out without resources and he is left to fend for himself. This is not how we are supposed to treat our Wounded Warriors.” Jason Perry, Attorney
More recently on MilitaryTimes forum from Jason Perry:
http://militarytimes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=177946


http://www.armytimes.com/news/200901...harge_010709w/

My son, SGT Adam Boyle, is the soldier in the story. This has been devastating for him and our family. All Adam has ever dreamed of since 9th grade in high school JROTC was the Army as a career. It was painful enough to have to give up that dream and Adam has felt so much shame in feeling he let his country down and the Army and now to do this to him.

Those who are being treated the worst are the most loyal and don't come close to believing the military would let them down this way. Adam, after over 8 years in the Army, 4 years of JROTC and 2 tours in Iraq does even come close to knowing how to live in a civilian world. Now he's kicked out on his own, no money, no benefits and even his last paycheck and leave pay (over 60 days) have been taken away. Including the little bit of counseling and meds they had him on to help keep some sanity is also gone.

Since his last tour in Iraq he's dealt with constant humiliation and harassment at the hands of those he respected most, even though he was diagnosed with chronic PTSD by their own military docs and recommended for immediate medical discharge (Honorable).

We are still in shock but we are also amazed at the support by the groups and people associated with Carissa Picard and Chuck Luther. Chuck is an Iraqi Freedom vet and wrongly diagnosed with pre-existing personality disorder after many years in the military, combat injuries, traumatic brain injury, PTSD, etc... and one of the subjects on a PBS documentary last summer. It was this documentary that lead us to them and also to the fact that this behavior by the military is horribly common.

We are so grateful to Carissa and Chuck and their never ending support, to an incredible attorney specializing in the military who is representing Adam pro bono and is outraged at what's been done to my son, our Vermont congressional offices, Sen. Patrick Leahy, Bernie Sanders, and Peter Welch and most of all I thank all of you for your support and wish your service members/veterans healing and happy lives.

Laura Curtiss ~ Very Proud Mom of SGT Adam Boyle - former 173rd Airborne Brigade (1st year of war in N Iraq 2003-2004) and just kicked out of 3rd Psychological Operations BN/Airborne of FT Bragg (2nd tour in Ramadi & Fallujah Iraq 2005-2006)
http://www.aarp.org/community/groups...1831&pageNum=2


PBS Documentary:
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/424/index.html
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/424/transcript.html

More on Carissa Picard, Chuck Luther and fight to save our servicemembers and vets suffering combat injuries, and even worse from our own military:
http://fight-ptsd.org/Advocacy.html
http://woundedtimes.blogspot.com/200...stice-for.html
http://www.woundedtimes.blogspot.com...ck\s-says.html
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/0...harge_010709w/
http://www.bloggernews.net/119335
http://www.namguardianangel.com/
http://www.woundedtimes.blogspot.com...here-\yet.html

"The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional to how they perceive veterans of early wars were treated and appreciated by our nation."
George Washington

[imlikeojnow]

To me PTSD is not a joke and if you are found to be faking it for money i think you should be drawn and qaurterd. it was said on here already it is all on how you deal with it. I have it, been diagnosed and treated for it. What happens to me does not happen to everyone else who has it etiher. And it is not "shell shock" either. it is a no bullshit illness, mental or physical however you want to look at it. but when a grown ass man has nightmares and wakes up crying once every few weeks now, well i aint faking that shit. just some food for thought. it isnt happening in here yet. but before you make some half asses comments on this make sure you know what you are talking about first. There is some serious shit we as, military, deal with over there that you all, civilians, will never understand. it is unfathomable for you guy to think that a 9 year old could have pounds of explosives on to kill you with it, dont say it isnt because you know it is. That is the kind of shit that happens over there. i use working out and boxing to deal with my problems. it is getting better but it is still there.

[BikerPepe`]

I went to school with a kid fresh out. Said he had PTSD and like many, was trying to get into my career field to retrain coming out of the military.
Unfortunatly the kid had earlier issues and the combination was too much for him. He was a jerk... a real phony personality. Just when you thought you might be getting through to the real kid he'd mouth off with stupid shit and basically push away any real attempt at getting to know the real him. Always talked about what a bad-ass he was, over confident liar and obnoxious... to put it lightly.

I bring this up because he was being treated at the local VA and they blew him off, repeatedly. He hung himself with a leather belt I helped him make in our class, days after our graduation ceremony. I didn't like him... I'm fairly certain he didn't like himself. Many of us felt horrible about treating him so poorly. Many fellow classmates got really messed up over it. Some felt there was something we could do. I don't.
Regardless... what happened to him, how he was treated and supported by those who put his already frail mind in harms way was pathetic. If we, as American citizens treat our young men and women who would put themselves in harms way on our behalf, so poorly.. what does that day about us as a society? Whatever it is... I think it's pretty piss-poor and a great reason I'm scared shitless of Nationalized Health Care.

[LauraCurtiss]

Simply a PS: I added the MilitaryTimes blog (http://militarytimes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=177946), on which Adam's attorney responded due to questions. I did not do this because of Jason's response but that of a soldier Adam served with. I completely understand his viewpoint; I've worked for many years with both the military and the VA, but more then anything it points out what Adam had to deal with after being diagnosed over two years ago with PTSD and also physical combat related issues, yet the military kept him there and dragged him through hell.

This is after he was recommended by the military for medical discharge.

As much as I understand this soldier's opinion, and suspect Adam would have felt the same prior to his experiences, I find it sad that someday this soldier may be in a similar position and have to live with what he and others did to make Adam not only feel like a failure to his country and the military, but to his comrads.

I feel so fortunate after nearly two years of hell, after combat, Adam finally told us what was going on and is not another of the many in the current suicide stats. Laura Curtiss - Proud Mom of Military Veteran Adam Boyle with service the first year of Iraqi Freedom with the 173d ABN BDE and 2nd tour in Ramadi and Fallujah with PsyOps (37F)/Airborne

[79Time]

My biggest grip with PTSD is the individuals who blame it for their behavior. I wish I could go into more detail regarding some of the stories I know. People use it as an excuse for unacceptable behavior instead of accepting responsibility.

I consider PTSD a valid illness though feel the difficulty of proving or disproving the illness makes it suspectible for fraud which actually hurts those with serious medical needs. Mental health professionals are busy dealing with the fakers, thus decreasing the services for those needing it.

[foxfire]

I retired after 20yrs in the army. I have 7 combat ribions dateing back to my 1st in 1984. I have good friends with PTSD. It's real and can manifest itself in so many ways it would be impossible to "weed out" many of the fakers. Anyone that has been in combat will suffer from it to some degree. I do by suffering from insomnia to piont that i sleep 3 or 4 hrs a night for weeks at a time. I am not in treitment but do take sleeping pills regurly. Thats how I deal with it. I know frends of mine that deal with it in vary inappropriate ways. Drinking, drugs,behaver problems. they need trietment and most will learn to deal with it. You can't fix it you deal with it. Because you know some one that in your eye's is claiming they have it you have no idiea what this vet. is dealing with in thier head. If we wait till they exibite major symtems it can be to late. It can effect the guy that sits behind a desk in the U.S. and orders the troops to invade a town and loses or causes the deaths of many people. so do not judge unless you have been thier. And evan then be supportive.
God bless or troops
Russell Fox U.S. Army Militery Police M.S. Ret.

[Gacknar]

Originally Posted by imlikeojnow

To me PTSD is not a joke and if you are found to be faking it for money i think you should be drawn and qaurterd.

I agree with you 100%

[mickaila]

Originally Posted by poopy_pants

A figure the doctors and scientists came up with resulting from that study is that after ~266 or ~256 days (sorry, can't recall exactly) in a combat zone, on average, every single person will suffer from some grade of PTSD no matter how tough they were mentally.

untrue. suffice it to say, i am intimately involved with this process, and i am aware of no such study.

for those that are interested, read a book called "on killing" by LTC (ret) Richard Grossman, he is a former mustang Ranger.

IMO, it better to have a high sensitivity, and over treat/compensate, then to miss a true case.

mj