spindle seal/axle seal/grease slinger question

[sewiv]

I have a question about my spindle seal and axle seal. Here's a picture of the spindle seal (very dirty, sorry):



It's like a miniature inner wheel seal, with a metal lip and rubber wiper.

The thrust washer/spacer even has a cutout in it for the metal lip:



The new seal that I have is all rubber, no metal. Is that a problem? Do I somehow have a weird seal setup on here? The new spacer is smooth, as well.

The seal on the axle shoulder looks like this:





It was in two parts when I pulled the spindle off. The part still on the axle shaft feels like it's got a hard plastic or metal center. Again, the new seal I have is all rubber.

Anyone know what I'm babbling about? Thanks.

[Redwagon]

there should be a small seal that fits in with spindle bearing...and a plastic race and rubber seal that goes over the spindle.

[sewiv]

Should the last word in your post be spindle, or axle shaft?

[Redwagon]

Originally Posted by sewiv

Should the last word in your post be spindle, or axle shaft?

sorry your right, axle shaft.

[mikelaubach]

I just went through this with NAPA parts. The first thing he brought out was some bullsheit pieces - a metal slinger washer and a cheesy rubber-only gasket. I have a '96, but I cannot see them being too different. What I needed was:

B2110 Spindle bearing $12.50 ea
13144 Spindle seal $3.96 ea
18844 Axle seal $7.91 ea
(goes on the axle and rides against the spindle seal area)

There are other parts too, but thought this might help. napaonline.com has pix, or you could go in and compare what you have to what they list. Let me know if you want any other part numbers. I've replaced $900+ in the past month on the front suspension, and that does not include the radius arm stuff, or "real" hard parts. Not sure how the hell I managed to spent that much on bearings, seal, and brake parts, but I did. And I did not get the screws on prices either. I basically did about three normal jobs (full brake job [minus rotors but including calipers], ball joints and tie rod ends, and wheel bearings and seals).

--MIKE--

[Steve83]

There IS a difference, and you can't interchange them. Look in my Brakes & Hubs album.

[sewiv]

I assume you're referring to this picture, which seems the only applicable one:



That is labeled "wheel seal". I'm referring to a seal that rides on the axle. Same thing? I can't find a more applicable picture in that album.

I've used the normal inner wheel bearing seal in the past without a problem.

[mikelaubach]

Originally Posted by sewiv

I assume you're referring to this picture, which seems the only applicable one:



That is labeled "wheel seal". I'm referring to a seal that rides on the axle. Same thing? I can't find a more applicable picture in that album.

I've used the normal inner wheel bearing seal in the past without a problem.

That is a seal that goes inside the hub and seals the inner wheel bearing, and a second seal that goes on the spindle itself and seals up against the hub. One seal seal to the spindle, and the other (the one ON the spindle) seals against the wide metal lip of the seal at the inner wheel bearing.

On my '94, that inner wheel seal is a NAPA 25009. For the '93, NAPA says 24917, so this is what he is referencing.

The spindle bearing is the same as mine, as is the spindle seal inner and outer. Verify this at napaonline.com. Autozone may have this info online as well, but I have found NAPA to have better parts and generally a more knowledgeable staff. I DID find that A/Z had the charcoal version of the cabin filter for our A4. And the guy ringing me up (almost wrote "checking me out" and that'd be bad) was telling me war stories of working on an A4. Things like "The oil drain plug is closer to the front. When I drained the oil the first time, it was red." "Then you're an idiot."

Don't understand the wheel bearing seal thing though. But I'm the type who better understand when he sees things. Is it that there is just one seal? I understand Steve83 that the opening is different (Thanks Ford for making a body for 16 years, and changing everything under every 2 years like clockwork!) and that you cannot use my wheel bearing/spindle seal combo in that hub. Does it use just the one seal?

--MIKE--

[sewiv]

Originally Posted by mikelaubach

That is a seal that goes inside the hub and seals the inner wheel bearing, and a second seal that goes on the spindle itself and seals up against the hub. One seal seal to the spindle, and the other (the one ON the spindle) seals against the wide metal lip of the seal at the inner wheel bearing.

Oh, I see where the confusion is coming from. I'm referring to the spindle bearing seal, and the seal that sits on the shoulder of the axle stub shaft, sealing to the back of the spindle. I didn't know about the two-piece inner wheel seal, sealing to the front of the spindle. Mine uses the one-piece wheel seal, but seems to have an odd spindle bearing seal/axle seal combo. My local Napa has the parts mentioned above, I've already reserved them for pickup later today, and will check them out then.

[mikelaubach]

I think I see the confusion. They broke. Mine did that too. The inner seal and "thrust washer" (plastic, no?) are actually one part when new. :-)

--MIKE--

[Steve83]

I guess I was as exhausted when I posted above as I am now - ignore that (and this too, if it doesn't make sense).

The spindle bearing seal is 3 pieces (1 rubber & 2 hard plastic), but it's only shown in this diagram as parts #2 & 3.



I wouldn't be surprised if the aftermarket (old-style) part isn't identical to OE, but it's functionally identical.

[Tony R]

Originally Posted by Steve83

I guess I was as exhausted when I posted above as I am now - ignore that (and this too, if it doesn't make sense).

The spindle bearing seal is 3 pieces (1 rubber & 2 hard plastic), but it's only shown in this diagram as parts #2 & 3.



I wouldn't be surprised if the aftermarket (old-style) part isn't identical to OE, but it's functionally identical.

Item 2 is Ford F3TZ1S175BBA
Item 3 is FOrd F3TZ1SZ175AA
Item 6 is NAPA NOS25009
http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPage...+-+Front+Wheel
Item 7 is Napa NOS23276

Ford has replaced some of the numbers with seals that are not correct. When I did mine last year (96, not sure how closee to yours), the parts guy new his stuff and said when they crossed some numbers they didn't get it right. I went to five dealers and each had the same problem.

Don't go to Pep Boys and get the seals they sell. Even though they are Chicago Rawhide, same as Napa relabel, they are not the better ones. The parts they have are a very cheap version, which may work, but I wouldn't trust.

Napa had to order in the 25009, but they got it in a day.

As far as seal 3, the one I got new from Ford was one piece, but the one that came out broke into the three pieces. If you get the Ford one, you will see how easy it is to snap apart. Seal 2 is actually a smaller version of seal 6, but the oneFord parts guy said that they don't have a replacement. Fortunately Napa has one.

They have one part D3TZ3C132A that they try to sell. It is a metal slinger that could be pressed in place of seal 2, but it has no sealing properties, just a stamped part that looks like a washer with a lip where it slides over the axle.
Good luck!

[sewiv]

The parts Mike Laubach listed above are correct. I broke one of the plastic spacers off of the spindle seal when installing the new one (and broke it), but I just used the old plastic spacer, it fit perfectly.

This is turning into a major hassle. The backs of the spindles are so bad, I had to grind and polish them to get any kind of a surface that a seal could ride on without instantly shredding. Even then, I'm going to be replacing that axle seal every time I do my bearings, I'll bet.

[mikelaubach]

They have one part D3TZ3C132A that they try to sell. It is a metal slinger that could be pressed in place of seal 2, but it has no sealing properties, just a stamped part that looks like a washer with a lip where it slides over the axle.

This metal slinger is designed to be used with a rubber "seal" they have. I used quotes because it is junk just by looking at it, feeling it.

You are talking about the far-right part in this picture:
http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPage...+-+Front+Wheel

Then the part that goes over it is upper most rubber piece. But there is nothing to really seal the metal slinger against the outer axle shaft. I laughed and asked if he was kidding me, and to bring out my real parts.

Glad it all worked out Sandy.

--MIKE--

[Tony R]

Then this is the part that replaces both of those. Slinger and cheap rubber part. F3TZ1S175BBA. It has the steel inside the rubber to press onto the halfshaft (item 1 in the diagram) and the pliable part to run on the back of the spindle once it is bolted to the knuckle. I think it took me longer to chase down these four seals that to actually do the replacement once I started. Would almost suggest packaging two up and put in the tool box for the next go around. It was not cheap to get the parts from NAPA and Ford. about $12-$18 per seal

[sewiv]

They're a lot cheaper at NAPA. $3 something and $7 something for the two spindle seals (items 2 and 3, same as the NAPA parts Mike shows above).

[RicardoJM]

Originally Posted by Tony R

Item 6 is NAPA NOS25009

Thanks guys. I knew from Steve83's diagrams that I needed item #6, but could not find it by the name "Outer Spindle Rolling Diaphragm Seal". A quick call to NAPA and I was able to drop by and pick it up.

[NotOJuice]

lots of part numbers here, i'm wading through this and trying to get it right. can someone tell me if the order in my pictures is the correct way to install?

outside of spindle

backside of spindle

small rubber gasket





super hard plastic or light metal washer



large rubber gasket

[Steve83]

No.











In the 1st pic, you have BOTH of them backward. Drive the blue seal into the back of the hub (AFTER the inner wheel bearing is packed & inserted), then put the black one on the spindle so the thin lip will touch the polished flat surface of the blue seal. Apply plenty of wheel bearing grease to the lip, or it'll squeal.

In the last 2, you have the hard plastic washer backward. The taper faces the curve on the stub shaft. And the large rubber seal slips onto the stub shaft on the machined surface between the yoke & the shaft. Its thin lip rubs against that nasty, rusty surface between the plastic washer & the centering ring on the spindle. Polish that up with a cup brush or rollock pad.

[NotOJuice]

thanks Steve!


will you let me work on your truck sometime?