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Old 06-18-2011, 11:53 AM   #1
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What less than $431.29 can do for your brakes (and steering too)....

Weakest link in stock brakes is the booster (assuming up to about a 35"
AT type tire). Unless you road course your bronco with multiple stops from
80 MPH, I don't believe the stock bronco brakes (rotors/calipers/drums
etc..) are all that bad.

For normal driving, including the average panic
stop from 60ish MPH or less, I will put the bone stock brakes with
HB up against normal "F350 upgrade" any day. I did the math in
another thread, and it was not even close. The only people who
don't believe this are the people who have not gone HB yet.

***Cost wise***

Re-manned HB (includes core cost)-$149

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...,parttype,1884




EDIT: Rock auto seems to be rebuild and return service only now.
Napa has it for a bit more @ $196 including core cost.

http://napaonline.com/Catalog/Catalo...77_0136020531#

Another option may be the 1976 continental HB, A-1 CARDONE Part # 527077.
Sure looks identical, even has the 4 firewall studs in what look like the
correct location. It is also available as rebuild and return @ rock auto,
but Napa does have it (as of 9/7/2012)




If you are yarding, you can look in any of these.

FORD THUNDERBIRD (1975 - 1976)
LINCOLN MARK IV (1975 - 1976)
LINCOLN MARK V (1977 - 1979)

or for 527076

FORD CUSTOM (1975 - 1977)
FORD LTD (1975 - 1978)
LINCOLN CONTINENTAL (1974 - 1979)
MERCURY GRAND MARQUIS (1975 - 1978)
MERCURY MARQUIS (1975 - 1978)

------------------------------------------------------

Sag pump (includes core cost)-$46

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...,parttype,7380

A-1 CARDONE Part # 208606 More Info Reman. Includes Reservoir;
Does Not Include Reservoir Cap. Hydro-boost Pump has 1 Pressure
Line & 2 Return Lines; with Hydroboost

Ignore my crappy bracket.


------------------------------------------------------------

Saginaw M-block bracket- 60$ ??
Guessing since Wildhorses just came out with this, but
it is inline with their other sag brackets on price

EDIT: see posts # 73 and 84 on bracket setup that fits with AC.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Pulley-$19

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RNB-300-122



So that leaves $157 for lines/fittings, etc....
(way more than needed).

The Linc HB does come with high pressure fittings that convert to std flare
(like large brake line fittings). Only need one high pressure flexible
line that goes to from pump to HB. I made one, half and half
using 3/8 brake line for the other half.






High pressure Line from steering box to HB can be all steel
tube (again, large brake line) since body to frame flex is not
that great. May need one adapter fitting for flare into box.
Return from HB to pump is just rubber tube.

The stock MC bolts right up (fittings and all). If later on you go to T-bird
caliper/F350 wheel cyls or even full 1 ton 4-wheel disks,
you can use this stang SVO MC, which also bolts right up including
both brake line fittings.

Fenco Reman/Master Cylinder (Brake System)

For your 1986 Ford Mustang SVO 2.3L FI Turbo 4cyl
$37 (includes core cost)

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...er=707281_0_0_



Obviously some mods needed to firewall to mount.
But other than 4 holes drilled in the firewall, and
possibly a spacer to get booster rod to correct
distance for brake pedal, not super fab intensive.

Oh and you just got a killer sag pump (better than most,
as it has huge reservoir and is setup for higher pressure, since it
was made for HB to begin with) and got rid of the whiny ford pump.

So it's like two mods in one.

One last benefit is valve cover clearance.
You can drop in a 460 with super tall valve
covers and still have no clearance issues.
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Old 06-18-2011, 04:34 PM   #2
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Old 06-18-2011, 04:48 PM   #3
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I concur. I have hydroboost with the F350 master cylinder and wheel cylinders and I can stop like nobodys buisness. Only thing I can't vouch for is the power steering pump since I still have the little whiney bitch on it for now.
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Old 06-18-2011, 05:21 PM   #4
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This works a thousand times better than that shitty F-350 crap. I SO love my swap.
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Old 06-18-2011, 09:28 PM   #5
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Old 06-19-2011, 02:40 PM   #6
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Nice info!!

So can you explain the routing of the high pressure line to both the steering box and the HB from the 1 pump outlet? I'm a little confused on that part.

Thanks, Tom
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Old 06-19-2011, 03:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Toms78 View Post
Nice info!!

So can you explain the routing of the high pressure line to both the steering box and the HB from the 1 pump outlet? I'm a little confused on that part.

Thanks, Tom
All hydroboosts route high pressure from pump to HB and then HB to steering box.
Since the line from the HB to the steering box does not go back to the motor,
you can run it as a solid tube. If you really flex up the body doing hard core
rock crawling, then maybe I might make that line a high pressure flex line also

There are seperate return lines (low pressure) for both the HB and the steering box.
The upper return line on the pump reserv should be used for the HB, as
some HB's are sensitive about return flow and the upper return line is
the least restricted (flow wise).

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Old 06-19-2011, 04:05 PM   #8
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Lots of different ways to do a hydroboost, but one thing is consistent....hydroboost is a huge improvement for these trucks. I like what OX has done, but I prefer the F350 swap and the hydroboost.

I caution those doing this swap to take their time and really research the bracket that adapts the hydroboost to your pedal setup. It is critical that the hydroboost not just be "bolted" to the firewall. It should be positively attached through the fire wall to the pedal assembly stamping with the equivalent of four 3/8-16 grade 5 fasteners or better. Anything less will cause the fire wall sheet metal to flex and eventually fatigue/fail.
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Old 06-19-2011, 04:47 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by BigWheelz View Post
Lots of different ways to do a hydroboost, but one thing is consistent....hydroboost is a huge improvement for these trucks. I like what OX has done, but I prefer the F350 swap and the hydroboost.

I caution those doing this swap to take their time and really research the bracket that adapts the hydroboost to your pedal setup. It is critical that the hydroboost not just be "bolted" to the firewall. It should be positively attached through the fire wall to the pedal assembly stamping with the equivalent of four 3/8-16 grade 5 fasteners or better. Anything less will cause the fire wall sheet metal to flex and eventually fatigue/fail.
Which 350 setup are you using? Curious what the power piston dia of that is, compared to others. When I was figuring the HB vs VAC brakes math, I found out that the HB I used (late model stang) on my early bronc and my dads "hotrod" is only about an 1 to 1-1/16 inch dia, but a late model F3/450 is upwards of 1.6 inches. I have not actually checked the piston dia of the old linc stuff, but a 76 MK IV/V weighed in at 4600 lbs, so no that far off a stockish bronc. I do like the older stuff as it is all SAE (and accepts the older MC's), but the disadvantage is how much longer will it be available. The newer stuff can be found for cheap used though, which is what I did with the stangs. Both came with MC and prop valve set up for disk, for only 125$ off flee-bay................

Good call on the firewall. The one's I have done so far just happen to mount right through the reinforced firewall (70 bronco and fox chassis LTD). The one thing I've found with the HB, is it needs a lot less pedal pressure (comparativley), so that helps with the firewall flex I'd assume...
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Old 06-19-2011, 08:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OX1 View Post
Which 350 setup are you using? Curious what the power piston dia of that is, compared to others. When I was figuring the HB vs VAC brakes math, I found out that the HB I used (late model stang) on my early bronc and my dads "hotrod" is only about an 1 to 1-1/16 inch dia, but a late model F3/450 is upwards of 1.6 inches. I have not actually checked the piston dia of the old linc stuff, but a 76 MK IV/V weighed in at 4600 lbs, so no that far off a stockish bronc. I do like the older stuff as it is all SAE (and accepts the older MC's), but the disadvantage is how much longer will it be available. The newer stuff can be found for cheap used though, which is what I did with the stangs. Both came with MC and prop valve set up for disk, for only 125$ off flee-bay................

Good call on the firewall. The one's I have done so far just happen to mount right through the reinforced firewall (70 bronco and fox chassis LTD). The one thing I've found with the HB, is it needs a lot less pedal pressure (comparativley), so that helps with the firewall flex I'd assume...
You are right about the pedal pressure, A stiff breeze could apply the brakes on mine!

I am actually using the astro hydroboost as I found a smoking deal on a brand new GM unit. I did not take it apart so I dunno the piston diameter. I did like you, astro van weight vs FSB weight is close.

When I said F350, I meant the F350 master cylinder and rear wheel cylinders, along with t-bird calipers. My truck had all these parts on it already when I started the hydroboost swap.

I like the older SAE stuff too, easier to sort through in my opinion. All 1980+ GM pumps and hydroboost are metric, so mine is all metric. I used an off the shelf metric pump to hydroboost hose for a 199X 3500 GM pickup. That fit great. Hydroboost to gear is a hybrid.... Stock bronco hose with the end lopped off and attached to the Astro hose end via a 3000 psi hydraulic compression union. Works great and I only have $25 in the hoses.
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Old 06-19-2011, 08:45 PM   #11
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You are right about the pedal pressure, A stiff breeze could apply the brakes on mine!

I am actually using the astro hydroboost as I found a smoking deal on a brand new GM unit. I did not take it apart so I dunno the piston diameter. I did like you, astro van weight vs FSB weight is close.

When I said F350, I meant the F350 master cylinder and rear wheel cylinders, along with t-bird calipers. My truck had all these parts on it already when I started the hydroboost swap.

I like the older SAE stuff too, easier to sort through in my opinion. All 1980+ GM pumps and hydroboost are metric, so mine is all metric. I used an off the shelf metric pump to hydroboost hose for a 199X 3500 GM pickup. That fit great. Hydroboost to gear is a hybrid.... Stock bronco hose with the end lopped off and attached to the Astro hose end via a 3000 psi hydraulic compression union. Works great and I only have $25 in the hoses.
Astros came with huge master cyls stock. Guy on the classic bronco list went from an astro MC 1-1/4 to a corvette MC, which was 1-1/8 (since he went one ton and 4 wheel disk). Anyway, it was surprisingly somewhat of a downgrade, which until I looked it up, was real surprised the astro MC was that large. Anyway, with that big a MC, I'm sure the astro power piston is up there in size also. Odd that that astro MC was bigger than many of the 3/4-1 ton trucks of the same era. (80's anyway).

I'd guess the later astro MC might not be a bad choice, as the astro went 4 wheel disk in the early 90's.
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:32 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OX1 View Post
Astros came with huge master cyls stock. Guy on the classic bronco list went from an astro MC 1-1/4 to a corvette MC, which was 1-1/8 (since he went one ton and 4 wheel disk). Anyway, it was surprisingly somewhat of a downgrade, which until I looked it up, was real surprised the astro MC was that large. Anyway, with that big a MC, I'm sure the astro power piston is up there in size also. Odd that that astro MC was bigger than many of the 3/4-1 ton trucks of the same era. (80's anyway).

I'd guess the later astro MC might not be a bad choice, as the astro went 4 wheel disk in the early 90's.
kinda off topic but not all of them did. while i haven't personally seen one (must have been a rare option/package or something) i do believe you they exist. I just have seen nothing but rear drums on astros.
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Old 06-20-2011, 07:26 AM   #13
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kinda off topic but not all of them did. while i haven't personally seen one (must have been a rare option/package or something) i do believe you they exist. I just have seen nothing but rear drums on astros.
Sorry, I was off 10 years, it was early 2000's . But I ain't no chevy guy and only use non ford parts when absolutely necessary.
Here is one from a 2003.

RAYBESTOS Part # 56827R More Information About this Part Professional Grade; Outside Diameter 12.795" / 6 Bolt Holes
Rear

Anyway, if someone did use an astro HB from those 4Wdisk years, there is no point changing that MC, as you will probably go smaller (unless that is your goal, like if you still had the stock calipers/wheel cyls). But if you were going 1 ton brakes, might as well just use that astro MC too (astros had 1-1/4 MC there whole run, even if rear drum). The astros are a dime a dozen and some have done HB for under 100$ with used parts, so I can see why many use them.
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Old 06-20-2011, 09:19 AM   #14
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I've got an astrovan HB unit sitting in the garage. It was going to go on my trail rig, but I just may put it on my 78 after reading this. The bonus is it will give me much more clearance for the driver side valve cover. I smashed the stock one on the huge vac booster when pulling my 351M. When I go back in with my 410M it will probably have even taller valve covers. Thanks for posting Jim.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:23 AM   #15
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I've got an astrovan HB unit sitting in the garage. It was going to go on my trail rig, but I just may put it on my 78 after reading this. The bonus is it will give me much more clearance for the driver side valve cover. I smashed the stock one on the huge vac booster when pulling my 351M. When I go back in with my 410M it will probably have even taller valve covers. Thanks for posting Jim.
Just keep in mind, the large MC with stock calipers/wheel cyl's may end up being touchy (overboosted feeling). With that said, you know lots of the EB guys are using the stock astro HB/MC with brakes that are pretty much the same as our fullsizes, and we don't hear massive amounts of complaints from them (which is odd actually, since pedal ratio is double normal on the early broncs, which increses the leverage even more). Plenty of cheap chevy MC's to choose from if that turns out to be the case, so not a huge deal really.
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Old 06-20-2011, 12:38 PM   #16
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Hey Ox can you put up a picture of your powersteering pump on the motor. I was wondering if it would clear the AC Compressor. Thanks
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Old 06-20-2011, 01:28 PM   #17
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Just a little FYI-

Hydroboost feels WAY different than vacuum assist brakes. the pedal stays a little spongey. The only time it will get hard is when the truck is off and you pump the pedal to drain the accumolator.

But hydroboost is much better than a vacuum booster. Theres no way vacuum can apply more pressure than the hydraulics can
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:23 PM   #18
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I never had this issue with my setup or on any of the vehicles I've driven with it. Maybe it's a particular type of booster that does this.

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Just a little FYI-

Hydroboost feels WAY different than vacuum assist brakes. the pedal stays a little spongey.
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Old 06-20-2011, 07:46 PM   #19
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Hey Ox can you put up a picture of your powersteering pump on the motor. I was wondering if it would clear the AC Compressor. Thanks
Not yet, not done with this conversion. I parted my mud bronc, so I have a semi-built 460 that
I might drop in for the heck of it. At that point I would use the 460 van sag bracket I acquired many years ago.
If I do stay 400, I will use this hacked bracket, which does fit with the york, but it angles the sag pump over to
the side a bit. I'm assuming wildhorses will eventually come out with the 400 sag bracket with air (york).
Would make sense since most guys either keep the air or use it as a compressor.




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Old 06-20-2011, 07:50 PM   #20
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I never had this issue with my setup or on any of the vehicles I've driven with it. Maybe it's a particular type of booster that does this.
Me neither. Pedal travel has always been nice and short and you have to be careful not to plant your face in the windshield the first couple days you drive it. No more spongy than the most solid of vac braking systems I've driven.
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