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Old 08-17-2012, 02:48 AM   #1
Jitters
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Sounds Electrical??

Okay folks, I've got an issue here that I've never experienced in the 40+ years that I've been driving.

When ever I wash my BKO, something strange happens. Once I'm done, I can't get her to start or she'll start and run momentarily and then die. I'll try and restart her and she'll start and then die.

Subsequently, I'll have to wait for a couple of hours and then she'll crank right up and run fine.

Several observances: erratic speedometer, odometer 1/10 increments by itself when the key is in the on position. If I'm able to get her to started, it feels like the transmission is slipping when I try to move forward.

I'm thinking that something electrical is getting wet inside the truck but have no idea what...ECM? But wouldn't is short out if it were constantly subjected to water or moisture?

I'm at a loss and need some help here from some of the experts...

Thanks in advance for any help that you can provide....

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Old 08-17-2012, 03:43 AM   #2
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Sounds like it might be the Electronic Shift Control Module...
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:00 PM   #3
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When your washing your bko...... Are you washing the engine bay also?
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:06 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Ewgoetz View Post
When your washing your bko...... Are you washing the engine bay also?
No sir. Everything is closed. I'm thinking that there must be a leak in the cowl or possible the bottom of the windshield somewhere....
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:20 PM   #5
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No sir. Everything is closed. I'm thinking that there must be a leak in the cowl or possible the bottom of the windshield somewhere....
This is definitely a possibility.

What condition are you plug wires in? Cracked wires can cause your spark to be affected by moisture.

Do you notice the problem with the tranny any other time? Water intrusion in your MLPS is another possible culprit. Are you washing underneath your rig as well?
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Old 08-18-2012, 02:32 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by jermil01 View Post
This is definitely a possibility.

What condition are you plug wires in? Cracked wires can cause your spark to be affected by moisture.

Do you notice the problem with the tranny any other time? Water intrusion in your MLPS is another possible culprit. Are you washing underneath your rig as well?
Tranny shifts smoothly with no slipping whatsoever...the only time I have this problem is after I wash her. I recall that I had the same issue once after it rained over night. I went to start the truck in the morning and she wouldn't start. Came home after work and no problem getting her to start....apparently, she dried out and was fine. this always the case...

I haven't washed the engine nor have I washed underneath her but with the exception of maybe rinsing off the front shocks but I don't do that all the time and still I have the same issue...

No cracked wires...truck runs beautifully. This is the only issue that I have with her....

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Old 08-18-2012, 12:46 PM   #7
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yo Jitters

Try a Self Test for Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)s by my pal, BroncoJoe19
http://broncozone.com/topic/14269-co...mode__threaded

The engine temperature must be greater than 50 F for the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) Self-Test and greater than 180 F for the Key On Engine Running (KOER) Self-Test.
Run it around to heat the engine up and shift thru all gears incl Reverse. Then turn off all accessories/lights, etc.

Make sure A/C is off and transmission is in Park (automatic) or in Neutral for a Manual & release clutch.

Do Key On Engine Off (KOEO) portion first.

Look Codes up in my broncolinks.com site using the new Search function.

And Post em here according to:
KOEO
&
KOER

--

Check Cowl Seal (s)


Item Part Number Description
1 ESB-M3G102-A Foam Tape
2 022A70 Cowl Top Seal
3 56903-S55 Screw (5 Req'd)
4 022A68 Cowl Top Vent with Radio Antenna Holes
5 022A56 Cowl Top Vent Grille
Spacer (1 Req'd Each Side)
6 56910-S2 Screw (2 Req'd)
7 02919 Cowl Top Panel-to-Hood Seal
8 02012 Cowl Top Outer Panel
9 55927-S2 Screw (4 Req'd)
10 022A48 Cowl Top Outer Panel Extension Reinforcement Assembly
11 020A50 Cowl Top Panel Access Hole Cover (1 Req'd RH Side)
12 02824 Cowl Top Panel-to-Hood Seal Assembly
13 56902-S55-X Screw (7 Req'd)
A Tighten to 1.4-2.0 Nm
(13-18 Lb-Ft)


I have seen many 92-96 seals that are deformed and let water into engine bay @ several areas

check grounds
@ Engine Block pic in a 95


G100 @ LH front of engine compartment on upper radiator support-in front of WS washer/Coolant overflow tank; G101 front of fender apron-between starter relay & headlight; G200 behind RH kick panel; G103 (battery to engine) Lower RH front of engine; Same as Bronco ; in a 95 F Series; Location in Engine Bay pics
Source: by subford (Bill K) @ http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...rical/Grounds/
Source: by Shadofax (TheJuice, The Juice, Mark Z) at SuperMotors.net


Location, Frame & Battery pic in a 94 5.8; "...Frame ground just inboard of the R spring tower. The black battery wire goes from the front bolt of the engine mount (on the block) to this tab & up to the battery post, where a smaller black wire goes to the core support, providing a continuous ground path between the engine, frame, battery, & body..."

Source: by CodysBigBlueBronco (how much $???)


Locations & Diagrams in a 96; miesk5
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Old 08-19-2012, 02:49 PM   #8
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Hey Miesk5...thanks for the info...I'll attempt to do the diagnostics sometime this week. It's my Birthday weekend so there's been a a no toucheee the toys policy implemented by my girl....

Plus, were in triple digit heat and I'm a wuss. Not goin outside until it cools down a bit.

Also, I noticed that there are a two different tones that are emitted from the truck when the ignition key is inserted. One appears to be the normal tone which happens after you insert the ignition key. The second tone occurs once the key is turned to the on position. At that point a succession of 5 rep, 5 set tones are emitted and then stops. Furthermore, once I drive about 30 miles are so this tone emission will again occur in 5 reps and 5 sets and then discontinue...is this part of a diagnostic test?

I asked the PO and he stated that he thought it was a seat belt sensor of some sort but I don't agree....think he was just pulling my leg or just didn't have a clue either....

Thanks again for the info and have a wonderful week...

Jitters
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Old 08-19-2012, 04:58 PM   #9
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yo JITTERS;
I hear ya buddy; last few days have been pleasant here instead of the Dew Point & 90s, so I have been working on the Bronco and home.

AIR BAG;

The air bag diagnostic monitor (14B056) continually monitors all supplemental air bag restraint system components and wiring connections for possible faults in the system. If the air bag diagnostic monitor detects a fault in the supplemental air bag restraint system when the key is in RUN, a diagnostic trouble code will be displayed on the air bag indicator, located in the instrument cluster (10849). Performing system diagnostics is the main purpose of the air bag diagnostic monitor.

Note: The air bag diagnostic monitor does not deploy the air bag in the event of a crash.

The LH and RH primary crash sensors are hard wired to the air bag; therefore, the LH and RH primary crash sensors and RH safing sensor and bracket sensor determine when to deploy the air bag.

Features and functions of the air bag diagnostic monitor are described below.

* The air bag diagnostic monitor illuminates the air bag indicator for approximately six seconds when the key is in RUN and then turns the indicator off. This shows that the air bag indicator is operational. If the air bag indicator does not illuminate or the indicator stays on or flashes at any time, a fault has been detected by the air bag diagnostic monitor.
* Diagnostic trouble codes may not be displayed for approximately 30 seconds after the key is placed in RUN. This is the amount of time the air bag diagnostic monitor requires to perform all tests and verify system faults, if present.
* Each diagnostic trouble code (a series of flashes and pauses of the air bag indicator) represents a two-digit number. Each diagnostic trouble code is always displayed at least twice. For example, a diagnostic trouble code 32 is displayed as three flashes, followed by a one-second pause, then two flashes, followed by a three-second pause.
* If a system fault is present and the air bag indicator is malfunctioning, an audible tone will be heard, indicating that system service is required. The tone is a series of five sets of five beeps. This does not indicate a diagnostic trouble code 55. If the tone is heard, the air bag indicator is inoperative and a system fault that requires service is present. CAUTION: The thermal fuse does not blow (open) because of excessive current flowing through it. DO NOT attempt to jumper out the thermal fuse with a circuit breaker or any other type of fuse.
* If a fault exists that makes unwanted air bag deployment possible, the air bag diagnostic monitor has an internal thermal fuse that will blow (open) automatically. This removes all power to the air bag deployment circuit.
* The air bag indicator will flash the appropriate diagnostic trouble code to indicate the suspect circuit. If the indicator is malfunctioning the tone will be heard. * Diagnostic trouble codes are prioritized numerically so if two or more different faults occur at the same time, the fault having the highest priority will be displayed first. After that fault has been corrected, the next highest priority fault will be displayed.
* The air bag diagnostic monitor includes an internal backup power supply. This feature provides sufficient backup power to deploy the air bag in the event the battery or battery cables are damaged in an accident before safing and primary crash sensors close. The backup power supply will deplete its stored energy approximately one minute after the positive battery cable is disconnected.

Airbag DIagnostic Monitor (ADM) Light Flash Code (LFC) Priority Table

Tone (5 Beeps Repeated 4 Times): Air Bag Indicator Open Circuit with Stored Fault Code(s)
No Air Bag Indicator (Dash Light Out): Inoperative Indicator Circuit or No Battery Voltage to ADM
Continuous Air Bag Indicator: ADM Disconnected or Inoperative
12: Low Battery Voltage
13: Air Bag Circuit Shorted to Ground
14: Front Air Bag Sensor and Bracket Circuit Shorted to Ground
21: Rear Air Bag Sensor and Bracket Not Mounted to Vehicle Properly
22: Rear Air Bag Sensor and Bracket Output Circuit Shorted to Battery Voltage
23: Rear Air Bag Sensor and Bracket Circuit Input Feed/Return Circuit Open
24: Rear Air Bag Sensor and Bracket Output Feed/Return Circuit Open
32: Driver Side Air Bag Circuit High Resistance or Open
34: Driver Side Air Bag Circuit Low Resistance or Shorted
41: RH Front Air Bag Sensor and Bracket Feed/Return Circuit Open
42: LH Front Air Bag Sensor and Bracket Feed/Return Circuit Open
44: RH Front Air Bag Sensor and Bracket Not Mounted to Vehicle Properly
45: LH Front Air Bag Sensor and Bracket Not Mounted to Vehicle Properly
51: ADM Internal Thermal Fuse Blown Due to Intermittent Short to Ground
52: Backup Power Supply Voltage Boost Fault
53: Front Air Bag Sensor and Bracket Circuits Resistance to Ground or ADM Fault
Rapid Continuous Flashing of Air Bag Indicator (No Fault Code): All Primary Air Bag Sensors Disconnected

=
Next up to bat is from my 96's Owner's Guide;"...
How the Air Bag Supplemental Restraint System Operates
The air bag supplemental restraint system has two main parts. One part is the air bag system with the driver air bag and inflator located in the center of the steering wheel. The second part is the electrical system, which has impact sensors, and a diagnostic module, and backup power supply. The diagnostic module monitors its own internal circuits and the supplemental air
bag electrical system readiness, including the impact sensors, the system wiring, the air bag system readiness light, air bag power, and the air bag ignitor.
The air bag system uses a readiness light and a tone to indicate the condition of the system. The readiness light is in the instrument cluster. When you turn the ignition to the ON position, this light will illuminate for approximately six (6) seconds and then turn off. This indicates that the
system is operating normally. NOTE: Maintenance of the air bag system is not
required.
A problem with the system is indicated by one or more of the following: the readiness light will either flash or stay lit, or it will not light, or a group of five beeps will be heard


Testing, in a 94 Video; "...how to read (light fault codes); applies to 94-96 Froncos and F150s..."; MIESK5 Note, Suggest Right Clicking this Hot Link & Open in New Window
Source: by pfun41 at http://www.youtube.com/user/pfun41#p...22/wLTWMukybZE
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:38 PM   #10
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Wow Meask5, this is great stuff...looks like I have my work cut out for me...I just snuck out to check the indicator light and there's no light that comes on when the ignition is turned on. No airbag indicator or engine check light.

Unfortunately, I bought the truck from a relative who is known to cut corners...

Thanks again for the info. Truly appreciated.
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jitters View Post
Wow Meask5, this is great stuff...looks like I have my work cut out for me...I just snuck out to check the indicator light and there's no light that comes on when the ignition is turned on. No airbag indicator or engine check light.

Unfortunately, I bought the truck from a relative who is known to cut corners...

Thanks again for the info. Truly appreciated.
yo J,
yw!
Wonder if relative or shop removed bulb? Same for Check Engine Light (CEL)
the Check Engine Light (CEL) comes on when the electronic engine control system is not working properly. The check engine warning indicator comes on briefly when the ignition switch lock cylinder is turned to ON, and should turn off when the engine starts. If the check engine warning indicator does not come on when the ignition switch lock cylinder is turned to ON or if it comes on while the vehicle is moving, the system is malfunctioning
If the CEL does not light up at all when starting it; then suspect that someone removed it or ckt is malfunctioning.

Same for Amber ABS lamp in Instr Panel.. The 4-wheel anti-lock brake system is self monitoring. When the ignition switch is placed in the RUN position, the anti-lock brake electronic control module will perform a preliminary self check on the anti-lock electrical system indicated by a momentary illumination of the amber ABS warning light in the instrument cluster. During vehicle operation, including normal and anti-lock braking, the anti-lock brake electronic control module monitors all electrical anti-lock functions and some hydraulic operations.

In most malfunctions of the anti-lock brake system, the amber ABS warning light will be illuminated. However, most malfunctions are recorded as a coded number in the anti-lock brake electronic control module memory and assist in pinpointing the component needing service. Our module blew the micropprcessors two years ago and two yard modules were bad..No returns so I'm running without 4WABS, just like the old days.
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:11 PM   #12
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Hey M5,

Thanks again. Yeah, the ABS is cool. Lights up momentarily when the key is turned to the on position. I'll pull the dash this weekend and check the bulbs. Knowing my cousin he probably removed the bulbs instead of fixing the problem. Also could have been removed by the guy he bought it from....Have a great week my friend....
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:36 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jitters View Post
Hey M5,

Thanks again. Yeah, the ABS is cool. Lights up momentarily when the key is turned to the on position. I'll pull the dash this weekend and check the bulbs. Knowing my cousin he probably removed the bulbs instead of fixing the problem. Also could have been removed by the guy he bought it from....Have a great week my friend....
yo JITTERS,

ok, have a good one too pal.
Cluster Removal in a 95 F150 (same for Bronco, 92-96); pics are gone
Source: by gijoe4500 at FSB http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170095

more removal LINKs @ http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php?index=235
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my broncolinks.com was "disturbed"; but some sections are archived @ [url]http://web.archive.org/web/20121009110424/http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miesk5 View Post
yo JITTERS,

ok, have a good one too pal.
Cluster Removal in a 95 F150 (same for Bronco, 92-96); pics are gone
Source: by gijoe4500 at FSB http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170095

more removal LINKs @ http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php?index=235
Yeah, I've removed the cluster not to long ago. Pretty straight forward. Thanks for the info...

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Old 08-25-2012, 09:26 PM   #15
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Well, it's a beautiful Saturday afternoon here in good old sunny SoCal, so I guess I'll go out and tinker with the BKO. Need to pull the IC to see if the bulbs for the CEL and the airbag sockets are either no good or have been pulled by the PO. Also need to pull the door panel to check the driver side window. The motor works but window won't go up by itself. I have to provide manual assistance in order to get it to go up. This has become a pain in the rear....

Let the games begin....

Hey Miesk5, just wanted to thank you again for all of the helpful information that you've provided. Because of that I dropped a whole $20 to become a Fullsize Member....

Peace,

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Old 08-26-2012, 10:40 AM   #16
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yo JITTERS,
If CEL bulb is in-place % good; ck socket,
then wiring next
Check Engine Light (CEL) Wiring Diagram in a 94 from EVTM
Source: by Mikey350 at http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/874104
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:56 AM   #17
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yo JITTERS,
If CEL bulb is in-place % good; ck socket,
then wiring next
Check Engine Light (CEL) Wiring Diagram in a 94 from EVTM
Source: by Mikey350 at http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/874104
You are the man...thank you sir... have a great week!

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Old 11-05-2012, 11:00 PM   #18
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Hey folks, its been awhile and I'm finally back on the Bronco. Still haven't figured out what the heck the problem is.

Today I removed the cowl and ran water directly into the are beneath. Also, ran water over the windshield. Started the truck and she ran fine.

Installed the cowl, washed the truck and low and behold. the POS is still doing the same thing. When I turn the key to the on position, the speedometer will move about a 1/4in and then return to the speedometer stop and the odometer will begin to increment every 1 to 2 seconds. When I turn the key to the start position, the odometer goes blank, the truck starts and then dies in about 2 to 3 seconds. When I turn the key to the off position, the speedometer goes up to the 40 mph mark and returns to it's resting place...

I'm stumped....
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:38 AM   #19
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ecu missing weatherstripping or cover etc? Relays missing cover?
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:28 PM   #20
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ecu missing weatherstripping or cover etc? Relays missing cover?
Not that I can tell. Not sure of where all the relays reside. I'll have to check into the locations and inspect. Same for the ECU. I'm going to look into the ABS unit as well. It sits directly under the washer/overflow tank and it can get wet when I was the truck as well...

Thanks for the info...I'll let you know what I find out....

Best Regards,

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