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Old 10-11-2012, 02:49 PM   #1
Dmanic
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Any suggestions???

So i just finished getting the bronco driving perfect down the road (well as perfect as you can get a bronco to drive down the road). Here is what I had:
4 in lift with extended radius arms, tre flip, drop pitman, redhead steering box, new tierod ends, adjustable camber bushing, new ball joints and new 35" tires. Basically every steering component under the front end was new and improved, and the truck road great.
Well i couldn't have it driving great for long, nope... I decided to put in some new deaver 5.5" springs to give a little more clearance for the tires. Now, once i put the springs in and leveled everything out, the truck still drove fine even though the camber was off by a lot. so i brought it down to the local shop to have it aligned.
When i got the truck back id drove horrible. it was all over the road, and every time i hit a bump it wanted to take off. i brought the truck back to the shop to see what my $370 bought me. All of the alignment sheets look to be in order and they installed 2 new adjustable camber bushings because the old ones broke when they were adjusting them. I told them how bad it was driving and if they can get it closer to the adjustment that i had before i put on the new deavers. (i had the old alignment sheet with me). They said they would. My wife had to pick it up the next day. She called me from the road and told me to come pick up my FN truck because she couldn't keep it on the road, and got a ride home from a friend. I picked up the truck, and it was 10 times worse than before. I brought the truck back into the shop and we all put our heads together to figure it out what was going on with it. one option was that the new camber bushing might be binding. So i brought the truck home and pulled off the top nut holding it down, pulled off the tierod ends and it did seem a little tight. i tightened the nuts back to 3/4 of what the specs called for and drove it down the road, just to see if it would make a difference. it didn't. I brought it back to the shop and they are going to install new moog adjustable camber bushings next week, but i was wondering if anyone had these issues before, and what they did to fix it. Like i said, everything having to do with the front end is new and it was driving great before I brought it in for the alignment.
Here is what it does driving down the road:
The truck will start to drift a little, because of a bump or a line in the road. When you slightly turn the steering wheel back to compensate, it takes a few seconds for it to respond. Itís not really like there is play in the steering, but it actually take a minute for it to react to what you have done. It only does this with slight turns. When you are making a slight turn on the road and it hits a small dip in the road, it starts turning harder all by itself. Same thing with bumps. When you give it lots of gas, the truck pulls to the left, then when you let off, it pulls to the right.
Iím hoping someone has had similar issues and knows what is going on.
Thanks for any help.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:18 PM   #2
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Since everything is new i want to blame to it on a bad alignment job. It really sounds like theyve got the toe-in wrong. But i wont blame them just yet. Assuming they are doing their job right, id make sure that every bolt on the lift kit is nice & tight, as well as all your TREs, balljoints, and the bolt for the steering box. I had problems way back, with one of the TTB axle pivot brackets moving and constantly knocking my alignment way out of whack. Had to put a couple tack welds on it to keep it in place. So thats where id start.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:26 PM   #3
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check the radius arm bushings/brackets for any damage or loose parts.

i'm raising an eyebrow at this shop for returning your vehicle not once but TWICE in worse drivable shape then when you brought it in. a reputable shop wouldn't let you take it home if it drives as terribly as you claim.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:33 PM   #4
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do you have the axle pivots in the 6" lift location or did you keep things the beams in the 4" lift location? This could be playing a roll in it. also the deavers are a softer rate spring perhaps that is causing some of this issue as well.

if you watch someone turn your steering wheel, look at the front end to see if anything is moving that shouldnt like the axle pivot location, radius arm bushings etc..
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:34 PM   #5
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check the radius arm bushings/brackets for any damage or loose parts.

i'm raising an eyebrow at this shop for returning your vehicle not once but TWICE in worse drivable shape then when you brought it in. a reputable shop wouldn't let you take it home if it drives as terribly as you claim.
I know what you mean... There's not a lot of quality places to choose from up here, and i really hate driving down the hill. i just might have to start doing it though.
The bushings and brackes are new and tight.

Thanks reptillikus... the pivot brackets are new as well, but i will look into that, or have them do it.

I'm waiting for them to get the new moog bushings in to bring back the truck. so the more information i have to feed them when i bring it back, the better.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:13 PM   #6
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if the axle pivots are not in the 6in lift location it will knock everything off and handle worse than a dumptruck from india
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:44 PM   #7
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That's Caster. If the sides are off by more than a degree from each other it will behave like you say. It will want to go one way on the gas and the other when you let off the gas. It is more pronounced if there is no toe-in.

Are the RA's you run made for a 5.5" lift? If not you have lost caster which helps it go strait down the road and return to center. I believe the min. is 4 degrees

Post the alignment numbers given you and pics of the steering if you can.

I have aligned three TTB lift through several different ride heights and drop bracket RA configurations. A level garage or driveway, tape measure, an angle finder, and some trial and error is all it takes. I should do a write-up. I remove the wheels and place jack stands under the hubs set to the center of the hub hieght withthe wheels on. Caster can be measured by slappng the angle finder on the rotor. I place the angle finder on a 3" square piece of 1/4" steel that I then set on top of the knuckle to get an accurate measure of Caster (the angle finder won't fit in there). I set toe-in with a tape at 1/8", measured at the thickest cross section of the tires front and rear. Toe is set last as Caster effects it.

I don't understand the TRE flip and drop pitman with a 4" lift, not needed. The steering rods should be as close as possible to parallel with the TTB arms or the steering will change as the TTB arms travel (this doesn't sound like your problem).
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:49 PM   #8
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A problem I had with mine was two of the bolts holding the steering box on had broken and was causing some wild driving. Do you have a steering stabilizer? X3 on the axle pivot locations
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:32 AM   #9
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I am curious about this and bet the caster is off if everything else is tight.

I just did a lift and alignment to my rig and had the same issue. I didn't spend enough time with the initial alignment, got the camber right but had to go back and get the caster right to keep it from pulling left under gas and right when I let off.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:56 AM   #10
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Just a quick update guys.

Thanks for all your imput. Everything under the frontend is brand new... Everything...
Anyways, i took a camber reading sitting in my driveway with a level and angle finder. drove it down the road and back, then took another reading and it is off by about 2 degrees. Looking at the camber bushing in the passenger side, it looks like it is sitting up too high and not seated all the way. So i went back to the shop and told them what i had found. They told me that they did use a sub-par brand of adjustable camber bushings when they broke mine taking them out. They do have some on order and will be putting in moog bushing when they come in. I will update the forum when they do.
My issue now is, is that with the bushing not being seated all the way, and the ball joint rattling around in there, will it cause the ball joint to go bad? it wouldn't be such a big issue to me, except i'm going in for a sugery in a few days and won't be able to change it if i wait for them to tell me it's bad. Do you guys think they should be responsible for replacing it, if it is bad now? Remember, EVERYTHING under the frontend is less than 7 month old...

Thanks agian for all the suggestions. i will update this post when i get more information.
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:06 AM   #11
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That's Caster. If the sides are off by more than a degree from each other it will behave like you say. It will want to go one way on the gas and the other when you let off the gas. It is more pronounced if there is no toe-in.

Are the RA's you run made for a 5.5" lift? If not you have lost caster which helps it go strait down the road and return to center. I believe the min. is 4 degrees

Post the alignment numbers given you and pics of the steering if you can.

I have aligned three TTB lift through several different ride heights and drop bracket RA configurations. A level garage or driveway, tape measure, an angle finder, and some trial and error is all it takes. I should do a write-up. I remove the wheels and place jack stands under the hubs set to the center of the hub hieght withthe wheels on. Caster can be measured by slappng the angle finder on the rotor. I place the angle finder on a 3" square piece of 1/4" steel that I then set on top of the knuckle to get an accurate measure of Caster (the angle finder won't fit in there). I set toe-in with a tape at 1/8", measured at the thickest cross section of the tires front and rear. Toe is set last as Caster effects it.

I don't understand the TRE flip and drop pitman with a 4" lift, not needed. The steering rods should be as close as possible to parallel with the TTB arms or the steering will change as the TTB arms travel (this doesn't sound like your problem).

still waiting for the new camber bushings to come in. i have no idea what could be taking so long.
here are the alignment sheets. the first one is after the spring install and the second one is after i brought it back to then. although it road better after the first alighnment. please let me know if anything jumps out at anyone.






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Old 10-20-2012, 02:00 PM   #12
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I to have deavers, trflip and extended ra's. my tierods sit level with a stock pitman arm. Are yours pointing upward? Also one thing i think about when people say alignment. Theres always talk of how our trucks sit weird when we park them in reverse. Are they backing the truck onto the rack then taking measurements? I never realy payed attention when they did mine.
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:11 PM   #13
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$370 for an alignment and it's not even drivable? And they admitted to using some inferior camber bushings?

I'd run from there as fast as I could....

Are they at least kissing you first before fawking you?
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:39 PM   #14
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$370 for an alignment and it's not even drivable? And they admitted to using some inferior camber bushings?

I'd run from there as fast as I could....

Are they at least kissing you first before fawking you?
I agree... Dmanic you should go get your money back, sounds like this shop is royally raping you.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:03 PM   #15
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First, after the spring install, they sent your rig out without enough caster to allow it to track strait and there was too much difference, 1.1 degrees difference is too much from side to side. While toe-in is within spec, there is no toe-in.

The second go-round, again there is not any toe-in and the caster could be closer side to side. There is still a .6 degree difference in caster. The closer caster is side to side the better it will track. I like 4 degrees caster at minimum.

Specs:
Camber .25 to -.5 and no more than .5 degrees difference between sides
Caster 2-6 and no more than 1 degree difference between sides
Toe .06 to -.25
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:36 PM   #16
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I was thinking about this. There is no toe-in on your rig to help it track strait. It is almost as if the shop was fawking with you. If you complained to them they could have add a bit of toe-in to address the concern.

Do this as it is easy. Get your tape measure out and add a bit of toe! All you need do is loosen the lock down bolts and crank the tie rod adjusters "in" about a half turn on each side. Look closely at the threads on the steering rods to be sure yo are cranking them in to shorten the steering rod length slightly. Then measure aft of the axle, at the inside of the tires, at the tires widest, and under the RA's. Then fore of the axle, at the same height as under the RA's, and at the tires widest. You want about 3/16" closer in the front. That will help the wandering considerably.

Then get the shop to add caster and get it closer side to side. I believe it's a good idea to add caster as your tires get larger.
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:42 PM   #17
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Come on over and I'll align it for you.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:17 AM   #18
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Just an update

So the new camber bushings came in and I made an appointment for them to finish up.
Later that day they called for me to pick up the bronco. I got there and they said they only put one side in because they saw the lift kit drop brackets moving when they turn the steering wheel. I'm not seeing it myself, but they said its doing it. So I told them that I would take the truck down and have them tack weld the brackets, and we would go from there. I had them done on Saturday and there was no change. The only thing that makes the truck drivable at all, is if I bring the toe out by about a half inch. So I bring it back to the shop and tell them that it's still doing it. I ask them if they are taking the knuckle completely out when they are changing the camber bushings because they look like they are sticking up more than they should be. He said that they do not. Now you guys can tell me if I'm wrong on this, but I remember putting in some bushings myself a few times, and remember having to have to take off the entire knuckle to get them to seat correctly and have the correct torque settings on the top and bottom of the knuckle. They said they would check on it and get back to me on Tuesday.
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:18 PM   #19
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You need to find a different shop.........
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:22 PM   #20
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