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Old 11-17-2012, 07:55 AM   #1
Nvidiator
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E4OD issues

Sorry if this is in the wrong spot, feel free to move it.

I have a '95 5.8l Eddie Bauer that is starting to give me transmission problems. I have a torque converter shudder that has recently developed mostly when I am at high speeds in 4th and 5th gear. Also it seems to be slipping or unlocking the torque converter (engine RPM's raise) at high speeds as well. If I am very easy on the gas I can get where I need to go without too much shudder or slippage, but if I try to give it too much power both problems rear their ugly heads.

Reading through the various transmission threads here I feel like I have a mixed bag of options. I could try replacing the fluid and filter in hopes of that curing the issue, but I have heard once it starts slipping it's a downhill slope from there on (although I can't tell if it's slipping or just unlocking the converter since both feel similar). I could try replacing the various sensor's located around and involving the tranny, but most of those fixes do not sound like they address my specific issue. I could spend a buttload of money and have a shop rebuild the tranny for me (I am not a rich man) or I could attempt to do it myself (I am a very busy man).

I have been hunting around online and I found a E4OD tranny brand new with a rebuilt transfer case bolted onto it already for $1,500. I contacted the seller and managed to talk him down to $1,000. To me this seems like the best option as I will have a brand new tranny and a newly rebuilt transfer case for a cool grand (my price limit for this). Do you guys think this is a good deal or should I spend money replacing sensors and tranny fluid before buying a new one for me to bolt on myself?
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:43 AM   #2
miesk5
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yo Nvidiator,
Try a Self Test for Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)s by my pal, BroncoJoe19
http://broncozone.com/topic/14269-co...mode__threaded

The engine temperature must be greater than 50 F for the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) Self-Test and greater than 180 F for the Key On Engine Running (KOER) Self-Test.
Run it around to heat the engine up and shift thru all gears incl Reverse. Then turn off all accessories/lights, etc.

Make sure A/C is off and transmission is in Park (automatic) or in Neutral for a Manual & release clutch.

Do Key On Engine Off (KOEO) portion first.

Look Codes up in my broncolinks.com site using the new Search function.

And Post em here according to:
KOEO
&
KOER

---
Is Transmission Control Indicator Light (Overdrive On/Off Switch) blinking?

Some possibilities
Fluid Condition and Torque Converter Shudder/Slip with no DTCs; "...proper operation of Ford transmissions is supremely dependant on ATF condition. The Mercon fluid has certain additives that regardless of apparent condition of the fluid, wear out. He claimed the average driver pays little attention to the slight slipping that begins to occur as the fluid ages and allows it to continue, causing the fluid to get dark and burnt smelling. As this happens, the fluid loses more of it's ability to provide the necessary function plus the degraded fluid begins to attack the rubber internal parts. Time for a rebuild due to not changing fluid when called for. A different scenario unfolds with very conservative drivers (like the elderly gent whom I bought my Bronco from). They may tool around so gently that the trans never slips. In this case, the fluid continues to look and smell fine but when someone else starts driving more aggressively, it appears the trans/tc is failing when all along it's really the depleted fluid which doesn't have to look/smell bad to be bad. His suggestion was to do the 20 quart flush at the cooler line and add any of the common friction modifiers they sell. Did that and night and day difference. No tc shudder/slip and trans shifts like new..."
Source: by Gary M at FSB

Shift Point Road Test
This test verifies that the shift control system is operating properly. for a 96 but =




Shudder; "...If the shudder occurs a) during the 3-4 or 4-3 shift at HEAVY throttle, or b) at 40mph in 2, OD OFF, and OD, or c) at the same RPM in every gear, or d) coasting, cruising, or in R, or e) during extended light braking, then it is NOT TC clutch shudder; The following is a list of common vehicle concerns that have been misdiagnosed as torque converter clutch shudder. For diagnosis of the following items, refer to the appropriate sections of the workshop manual and the Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis manual (PCED). Spark plugs - check for cracks, high resistance or broken insulators. Plug wires. Fuel injector - filter may be plugged. Fuel contamination - engine runs poorly. EGR valve - valve may let in too much exhaust gas and cause engine to run lean. Vacuum leak - engine will not get correct air/fuel mixture. MAP/MAF sensor - improper air/fuel mixture. HO2S sensor - too rich/lean air/fuel mixture. Fuel pressure - may be too low. Engine mounts -loose/damaged mounts can cause vibration concerns. Axle joints - check for vibration..."
Source: by Steve83 (Steve, That dirty old truck) at SuperMotors.net
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my broncolinks.com was "disturbed"; but some sections are archived @ [url]http://web.archive.org/web/20121009110424/http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:16 AM   #3
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I can only relate my experience over the last few weeks. My trans appeared to be slipping. When I would accelerate while going 50 MPH, I'd feel shuddering and the engine speed would flare up. The fluid looked and smelled OK but It was suggested to me to flush through the cooler lines (20 qts) and add one of the friction modifiers they sell. I used Mr Tranny. The results were a perfectly shifting trans. I was told not to bother pulling the pan as the filter is very large and not likely to be clogged and you risk dislodging trash that will find it's way into a sensitive area. Ford does not recommend changing the filter, probably for this reason. IMHO, you should try the flush and additive first. A lot cheaper than the alternatives and it did work for me. Keep us informed of what you end up doing. Your symptoms just sound so much like mine. How's the leak situation on your trans? Mine was absolutely leak free making me not very inclined to replace it unless absolutely needed. Gary.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:28 PM   #4
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Update.

I ran the check engine codes as suggested and found an EGR code (glad I ran the test). I fixed the problem with that (connector not fully connected coming out of TB) and the codes for KOEO and KOER both read 111,111, system pass. However the transmission is still shuddering and slipping mainly in 5th gear, I also checked motor mounts they are in good shape still.

I have been in corospondence with the guy who has the E4OD I mentioned in the first post. Basically what happened to him is his throttle got stuck wide open in his 92 bronco and since he had his ignition jury rigged due to faulty ignition cylinder he could not quickly turn the truck off so he slammed it into neutral, then the motor started redlining so in panic he slammed it back into drive. I am sure most of you know the result of that. He torqued his transmission so hard that he actually cracked the block. A friend of his worked in a shop and they needed an addition built in the back of the shop so the two of them worked a trade, the shop did a full rebuild on a used tranny block replacing every component inside, new torque converter, and rebuilt the transfer case (I was shown the paperwork for this). When they got it bolted back on the truck and started it all they heard was a bunch of clunking noise when turning the key. Dropping the oil pan revealed that he had totally torqued his crankshaft. In frustration the guy parked the truck in his yard and purchased a used F350 Diesel. He tried to sell the truck but has had nobody interested so he cut the truck up into pieces and put it in his shed after parting out what pieces he could. He has had the transmission and transfer case listed for $4,500 and has brought it all the way down to $1,500, from which I talked him down further in my initial response to his ad to $1,000.

Him and I got to talking and he learned that I am a framer just like him, turns out we even know some of the same people. Well he told me that if I come buy the transmission from him he would throw in whatever other parts from his old truck I needed, including the rims and tires which still have 1/2 tread left (BFGoodwrench AT).

I went over there this morning to meet him and show him I am a serious buyer and also to check what parts he was offering. Turns out he has both front fenders I needed (mine are rusted at the bottom) and the tailgate I need (mine is rusted) and the hood cowl I need (dented). He also has the complete AC system (my pump is noisy as hell) and various other miscellaneous items such as the tire rack carrier, alternator, starter, etc. He told me if I come get the tranny I can take all the other stuff too, he is tired of it taking up room in the shed and has not had any interest from anybody looking to buy the parts.

Sooo, this deal is just too good for me to pass up. I need new tires to pass inspection this month anyway and was almost ready to shell out $800 for some new BFG's, with all the rest of the stuff I am getting for only a couple hundred more, not to mention the new transmission, transfer case, torque converter, I feel like I would almost be a fool not to take this deal.

Thoughts?
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:35 PM   #5
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Here is the post with the tranny and transfer case I am speaking of: http://norfolk.craigslist.org/pts/3287599604.html
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:51 AM   #6
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..nudge
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:15 AM   #7
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Sure would try a fluid change w/friction modifier 1st....... You'd need to refill the new tranny anyway...you could save the fresh fluid for the replacement if the problem didn't go away. MANY Ford tranny's have been needlessly rebuilt because of this issue. Again, is your current trans leaking? If so THAT would be a reason to swap it, not because of a shudder/slip that you don't attempt a simple fluid change for first. Might let you get some new tires rather than spending $1k on body parts (and an un-needed trans). Just Google Ford truck transmission fluid flush and you'll find good instructions on how to do it easily through the cooler line. Your truck already has a removable hose up front for that exact purpose.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:10 AM   #8
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The new transmission already has fluid in it. They installed it on his truck before they realized the lower half of his motor was shot.

I am only hesitant to try the new fluid because of how much money a fluid change costs. I would be looking at almost $80 dollars in fluid at my local auto parts store if I were to buy the needed 18 quarts. I have added a friction modifier to it, and I have checked the fluid for a burnt smell (does smell kind of burnt but still has a pink color).

All of the seals around the transmission are wet, although it is not leaking (dripping) apparently the seals are on their last legs, especially around the shift linkage.

Last edited by Nvidiator; 11-19-2012 at 07:44 AM. Reason: First line had a wrong statement: Torque converter was not shot, lower half of the motor was.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:44 AM   #9
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Go to Wal-Mart...fluid's cheap there. Modifier is only $8. You are making a SERIOUS , $1000 mistake. My fluid was exactly like yours, still pink but OLD. If you aren't losing fluid due to dripping leaks, the trans probably has a lot of life left in it as long as you get the fluid changed before you burn up the TC or clutches with that worn-out fluid. Old fluid is bad on all seals but you stop the damage from getting worse if you just get that crap out. Re-read Miesk's post and this. http://www.ford-trucks.com/article/i...nsmission.html . Leave the pan alone...you'll just break free all sorts of shit that's safely stuck in place. Have the auto part guy show you how big the Ford trans filter is and you'll see it's unlikely to ever need changing. As long as you have a hose, big drain pan and trans funnel, you'll be done in 20 min. I had a hose long enough to put the pan by the drivers door..one man job that way. You'll be a fool if you don't try this first. I'd tried Lucas trans fix first with no effect. Trans guy who put me on the right track said it's pure waste without getting the bad fluid out too. BTW, hook your flush hose up to the cooler side of the pipe once you pull off that little rubber hose. Go to Home Depot and buy clear vinyl tubing, 12 ft of half inch will do it.. Lot of trans shops have made a lot of money rebuilding good Ford trannys.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:57 AM   #10
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You think so even with all the other stuff I am receiving with the new tranny? It's a newly rebuilt tranny, rebuilt transfer case, new torque converter, both quarter panels I need, the hood cowl I need, spare hood, tire rack with no rust on it, tailgate with no rust, tires and rims that will pass inspection still have lots of tread left (mine are bare). I was about to spend $800+ for new tires anyway.

You don't think it would make sense to maybe change the fluid, then switch the transmissions and try to sell my used one to recoup some of the loss? It feels like with all the extra stuff I am receiving plus the new drive-train I would be almost a fool to pass up this deal. Really not trying to sound argumentative I just wanted to know how all the rest of the free stuff figured into your statement that it would be a waste of a grand.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:32 AM   #11
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Since you seem intent on getting the stuff, buy it but before you swap, throw the dice with the fluid change. If your trans responds like mine and shifts like a new one, keep the body parts and sell the newly acquired drive line parts. You'll probably be able to sell those for what you paid for all of it if you are patient. I don't hang onto a lot of spare parts because you never know how long you'll be keeping a vehicle. Tomorrow some drunk might rear-end you and you'll be shopping for a new ride. I'd sure prefer to spend 20 minutes changing fluid than a full weekend getting filthy swapping drive line parts. Properly maintained an E4OD will last a long time. How long have you had your 95 and when was the last time you changed the fluid?
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:36 PM   #12
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I haven't changed the transmission fluid in the truck since I bought it 4 years ago, I am not sure when and if it had ever been changed previously.

I went to Wal-Mart today as per your suggestion and bought 4 gallons of fluid. I will change it out thanksgiving morning. I will likely still buy the other driveline just so I can acquire all of the other parts that come with it. As far as keeping spares around or crashing my truck, even if I wrecked it I would likely buy another, I have always been a die hard Bronco fan and have owned one my whole life, from my first truck a 78 Bronco to a Bronco II (yeah I know they don't count) to my EB I currently own which has been my fav.

I will change the fluid and if it fixes the shudder and slippage I will continue to use it till I find free time to switch the transmissions out. I still want to switch them mainly because the one I am buying has no miles on the rebuild for the torque, tranny or transfer case. To me it's worth the hassle of the job just knowing I have a practically new driveline under my truck. I will then take the old driveline and sell it for $500 if I can for the whole thing including the transfer case, since it's all in working order I figure I should be able to get at least that much for it. At that point in time I will only have spent $500 for a new driveline, passing tires, rims and all the other body parts I mentioned earlier.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:38 PM   #13
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You'll need another gallon of fluid plus the friction modifier. I suspect the transmission will shift very well once you have done the flush. If so, keep in mind that you now have a good working trans in the truck vs a 'rebuilt' unit that has never been used. The number of rebuilt E4ODs that have to be 'reworked' by by the shop because something didn't go together just right is pretty substantial. Talking to transmission guys, an E4OD is one of the toughest builds out there. That's why an overhaul for one is so costly.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:45 PM   #14
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I thought it was 16 quarts for the E4OD? At 4 quarts per gallon I figured I had it covered. I bought some Lucus Oil Friction Modifier while in Advanced picking up the pan gasket and filter.

You really think the original tranny would be better then a newly rebuilt one? Even if the one in my truck has already been through some slipping and shuddering? Now I am not sure what I want to do.. If anyone else has any input on this topic I would love to hear it. Even if it's just to second the opinion (which I do really appreciate) of Gary.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:56 PM   #15
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Well I guess nobody has anything else to say on the subject...

I will be doing the fluid change the day after next, we shall see what happens.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:16 PM   #16
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You'll need 20 qts. Go back to my post #9 and read the link. Get the piece of hose and do it that way. I would take the filter kit back if I were you unless the pan gasket is leaking badly. Ford does not recommend a filter change ever. Taking the pan off uneccessarily risks dislodging trash that's comfortably stuck in a non-threatening place. Doing the flush as outlined in the link is all you need to do (plus the additive). Good luck. I'm pretty certain you'll be pleased with the results. Again, the E4OD is a hoss, this same basic tranny is used in motorhomes it's so tough. If your fluid is still pinkish and not reeking of burnt, it's unlikely you've done any damage yet. Since you haven't mentioned it, I've been assuming it works OK other than the shudder/slipping...i.e. engages right away when you start in the morning and doesn't have to wind up to 4K rpm to shift until it warms up... If you do the hose flush technique, you'll be done in less than 30 minutes and have little mess to clean up (unless the hose gets loose while you're flushing).
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:42 PM   #17
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I agree on doing a fluid swap. I change mine on a pretty regular basis. 4 years is a long time for a non-change, and by all means CHANGE THE FILTER TOO. It's cheap, and comes with the oil pan gasket.

By your account the other parts seem to be worth the $1500. If you have it I'd get it, then decide as to whether you want to swap in that trans.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:48 PM   #18
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Well I appreciate the responses gary, at least someone has some feedback for me on this.

I wasn't planning on replacing the filter but the first place I went too only had the pan seal as a kit and it was only $15, the gasket by itself was $10 so for five extra bucks I figured why not.

I am replacing the gasket because it is leaking, and because my tranny pan does not have a drain plug so I will be dropping the pan anyway. I am planning on installing a drainplug on it once it's off the truck.

I think I might see if I can't find an external oil filter for it as well..
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4NIC8R View Post
I agree on doing a fluid swap. I change mine on a pretty regular basis. 4 years is a long time for a non-change, and by all means CHANGE THE FILTER TOO. It's cheap, and comes with the oil pan gasket.

By your account the other parts seem to be worth the $1500. If you have it I'd get it, then decide as to whether you want to swap in that trans.

Thanks for the response, and I talked the guy down to $1,000 for all the parts, plus I made contact with the shop who did the work to verify that his story checks out (it does).

Still not sure if I am doing the swap if the fluid change fixes it. I may try to sell the driveline and recoup my $1,000 if the popular consensus here is that my original stock tranny in working order is better then a rebuilt driveline (still scratching my head over that one though). . If I do sell it for a thousand that basically means I got the tires and rims and all those body parts for free, but if I don't sell it I got a new driveline for a cool grand, decisions decisions..
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:09 AM   #20
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I wouldn't waste money on installing a drain plug simply because that's not the proper way to change the fluid. Doing the flush as described in the link gets ALL the old fluid out including from the TC, cooler, internal passages and clutch packs in the transmissions, lines, etc. Shops try to make you think you need some sort of fancy equipment to properly flush a tranny. Nothing is further from the truth. As described, the procedure is far faster than the obsolete method of draining by the pan and does a far superior job... in addition to being much cleaner to do. That's why your truck has the little piece of hose there at the cooler. Ford didn't put it there for looks. Ford probably stopped putting drain plugs on TCs because removing the plug could break free crap that doesn't drain out but comes completely loose once refilled and started and clogs up something important. Since you seem determined to open up the bottom and change the filter, as an educational experience, set the filter aside and when you are done, cut it open. You'll never waste money on a tranny filter again. Pulling pans is a waste of time and money. I'd check for loose bolts before condemning the gasket. Just because something is cheap doesn't mean it's a good idea. Carter's Little Liver Pills were cheap and people took them for years before the FDA showed they were worthless.
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