351W timing issue - FSB Forums
Register Home Forums Active Topics Photo Gallery All Albums Mark Forums Read Auto EscrowInsurance FSB Store
FullsizeBronco.com is the premier Ford Bronco Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-20-2013, 08:51 PM   #1
broncobuster4X4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 15
iTrader: (0)
351W timing issue

hey guys,

so ive been having a real bad time with timing my new 351W in my 1990 bronco. originally i did not have a timing light so i timed by vacuum. i read that between 18-22 in. Hg was a standard reading. i originally had 15 and very little power output. so i tuned by vacuum and was able to get it up to around 20.5 in. then i hit it with a timing light when i got home (was working on it while at college) and was way far off from 10 degrees BTDC, i dont even think i was on the scale, but was still BTDC.

then just recently I timed using this method:
http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/...d.php?t=168214
which i thought would fix all my problems. i did everything he said, with the exception of using a timing light. i once again used my vacuum guage, hooked up to my MAP port on the manifold tree. I was able to get the same, if not a little higher than before. this is all at idle mind you. now the car runs very poor. when i get her up to highway speeds, and let off the gas it sounds like there is rubbing, and if i hit the brakes she she shakes a little and it just doesnt sound good. now i would think it was the brakes but i just redid them and had been driving it for 2 weeks prior to trying this. so i do not believe it is them since this started happening once i retimed. when i hit it with the timing light, im yet again wayy off the scale of BTDC. i'm so confused and cant figure this out.

another problem is after ive had her running and i put it in reverse, she stalls out. that i have no clue what the problem is. and my oil pressure is at like, 100 on the guage I installed. when i first dropped the engine in about 6 months ago, it started at about 50-60, and now has slowly been building.

any ideas? id really appreciate some help with this stuff guys. thanks!
broncobuster4X4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-21-2013, 09:06 AM   #2
87Roughneck
Registered User
 
87Roughneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Gloucester, VA
Posts: 648
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: '87 Bronco Custom; 300cid EFI w/ 3" exhaust; 35" Goodyear Wrangler Kevlar MTRs on 15x8; 2.5" lift
Any ideas?

Yeah.

Don't time it with a vacuum gauge and then check it with a timing light and wonder what went wrong.

Time it with a timing light like you're supposed to, and be done with it.
__________________
"I'll try to be nicer if you'll stop being an idiot."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve83 View Post
Is he STILL arguing this? I put him on my ignore list years ago, so I don't have to read his ranting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnforgiven View Post
Years? He's only been here since February of this year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnforgiven View Post
87Rougneck knows his shit, even though he can be a dick. I'd listen to him.
87Roughneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 11:44 AM   #3
sackman9975
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
 
sackman9975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Livonia Michigan
Posts: 6,847
iTrader: (42)
Bronco Info: 1995 Eddie Bauer 357w, E303 cam on S/D, Warn premium hubs, 3 inch exhaust with flowmaster 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by broncobuster4X4 View Post
hey guys,

so ive been having a real bad time with timing my new 351W in my 1990 bronco. originally i did not have a timing light so i timed by vacuum. i read that between 18-22 in. Hg was a standard reading. i originally had 15 and very little power output. so i tuned by vacuum and was able to get it up to around 20.5 in. then i hit it with a timing light when i got home (was working on it while at college) and was way far off from 10 degrees BTDC, i dont even think i was on the scale, but was still BTDC.
Did you remove the spout ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by broncobuster4X4 View Post
then just recently I timed using this method:
http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/...d.php?t=168214
which i thought would fix all my problems. i did everything he said, with the exception of using a timing light. i once again used my vacuum guage, hooked up to my MAP port on the manifold tree. I was able to get the same, if not a little higher than before. this is all at idle mind you. now the car runs very poor. when i get her up to highway speeds, and let off the gas it sounds like there is rubbing, and if i hit the brakes she she shakes a little and it just doesnt sound good. now i would think it was the brakes but i just redid them and had been driving it for 2 weeks prior to trying this. so i do not believe it is them since this started happening once i retimed. when i hit it with the timing light, im yet again wayy off the scale of BTDC. i'm so confused and cant figure this out.
I believe you didn't remove the spout connector. I also think that if it shakes when applying the brakes, it's the brakes.

You need to time it with a timing light to have it run properly. That write up is to get it running before a timing light (new motor installs, or distributor removal)
__________________


~ Scott ~

~E303 w/Flowmaster 40 & 3inch exhaust rumble ~ 213k & counting. Now my daily driver once again. ~
~ Bronco owner/Driver/Mechanic/Enthusiast for 23 years ~
sackman9975 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 09:35 PM   #4
broncobuster4X4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 15
iTrader: (0)
87roughneck:

you are an inspiration to everyone with your wisdom. how about instead of posting a smart ass response maybe you can be a little more useful and answer some of the questions posed in my post. if not, don't reply at all

i was unclear in my first post. the original 15in of vacuum was the reading after being timed with a timing light. while at school, i did not have a timing light and timed by vacuum to get the 21 in reading. why if the standards are between 18 and 22 inches, would my reading be 15.

sackman9975:
i just retimed it today with the timing light at my house, and got it to just about 10 degrees, and yes, both with the timing light and the vacuum guage, i removed the spout connector. now after retiming, i have much less power than when i had timed by vacuum the first time, when i got the 21 inches before trying the writeup. why is this happening? the shaking and stuff went away after retiming today and i do not stall while in reverse anymore.

so my questions are:
why is it that after timing with a light i am below the standard vacuum measurments and have very little power output for what a brand new motor should have.

and why is it that when timed improperly before, would the car stall in reverse. what makes that happen? i figured that if the engine will idle in drive, then it would idle in reverse.

thanks for the help
broncobuster4X4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 09:46 PM   #5
sackman9975
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
 
sackman9975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Livonia Michigan
Posts: 6,847
iTrader: (42)
Bronco Info: 1995 Eddie Bauer 357w, E303 cam on S/D, Warn premium hubs, 3 inch exhaust with flowmaster 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by broncobuster4X4 View Post

why is it that after timing with a light i am below the standard vacuum measurments and have very little power output for what a brand new motor should have.
Brand new motor huh? What's the specs? New cam? Are you sure the firing order is correct for the cam that's installed? These are some important questions that need answers to help with figuring this out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by broncobuster4X4 View Post
and why is it that when timed improperly before, would the car stall in reverse. what makes that happen? i figured that if the engine will idle in drive, then it would idle in reverse.

thanks for the help
You have to remember that the computer is constantly changing the timing, that's why there's a spout connector. If it wasn't set properly before, it could of been advancing the timing or retarding the timing too much for the load that was applied when placed into gear.
__________________


~ Scott ~

~E303 w/Flowmaster 40 & 3inch exhaust rumble ~ 213k & counting. Now my daily driver once again. ~
~ Bronco owner/Driver/Mechanic/Enthusiast for 23 years ~
sackman9975 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 09:47 PM   #6
TheUnforgiven
Dr. Brian & Mr. Unfer
 
TheUnforgiven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Oswego, Illinois
Posts: 18,427
iTrader: (10)
Bronco Info: 2006 Kia Spectra
reverse takes A LOT more fluid pressure to engage and stay engaged. That's why it would stall in R and idle in D.
__________________
2006 Kia Spectra 4 banger/5 speed that tows a 14ft boat while getting better gas mileage than any of your broncos could ever dream of getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Bronco" John Galt View Post
New nuts are in the plan.
"Kids, they see the good in everything and through their eyes, they open ours." - Hank Davis
TheUnforgiven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 09:47 PM   #7
TheUnforgiven
Dr. Brian & Mr. Unfer
 
TheUnforgiven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Oswego, Illinois
Posts: 18,427
iTrader: (10)
Bronco Info: 2006 Kia Spectra
Quote:
Originally Posted by sackman9975 View Post
Brand new motor huh? What's the specs? New cam? Are you sure the firing order is correct for the cam that's installed? These are some important questions that need answers to help with figuring this out.

You have to remember that the computer is constantly changing the timing, that's why there's a spout connector. If it wasn't set properly before, it could of been advancing the timing or retarding the timing too much for the load that was applied when placed into gear.
This too. And a brand new engine is going to need time to break in. Not sure how many miles this new engine has on it but a new engine will get stronger as miles are put on it and as the rings seat.
__________________
2006 Kia Spectra 4 banger/5 speed that tows a 14ft boat while getting better gas mileage than any of your broncos could ever dream of getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Bronco" John Galt View Post
New nuts are in the plan.
"Kids, they see the good in everything and through their eyes, they open ours." - Hank Davis
TheUnforgiven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2013, 10:56 AM   #8
87Roughneck
Registered User
 
87Roughneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Gloucester, VA
Posts: 648
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: '87 Bronco Custom; 300cid EFI w/ 3" exhaust; 35" Goodyear Wrangler Kevlar MTRs on 15x8; 2.5" lift
Quote:
Originally Posted by broncobuster4X4 View Post
87roughneck:

you are an inspiration to everyone with your wisdom. how about instead of posting a smart ass response maybe you can be a little more useful and answer some of the questions posed in my post. if not, don't reply at all

i was unclear in my first post. the original 15in of vacuum was the reading after being timed with a timing light. while at school, i did not have a timing light and timed by vacuum to get the 21 in reading. why if the standards are between 18 and 22 inches, would my reading be 15.
Here's some wisdom for you...

Don't be a smartass to the people that you ask for help. They may just know more than you do.

I did answer your question.

My original reply was completely accurate, but apparently you just don't understand that, along with not understanding how to time a vehicle correctly. There is no accurate way to time an engine with only a vacuum gauge; a few degrees can make a big difference. If you don't have a timing light, don't screw with it until you do. Get a timing light, follow the instructions on the VECI label under the hood, and time the vehicle the way that it's supposed to be timed.

That was my advice.

I don't know what your college instructors are telling you, but I always had my students set timing by factory specs, with a timing light, on a stock motor. I won't confuse you with how to time a non-stock motor...

Now, if, when you have the vehicle set to the proper timing-- which includes the idle speed being set correctly, and the vehicle being fully warmed up (as it also says on the VECI label)-- if it still isn't running properly, then you need to look elsewhere.

How about:
*What's your idle RPM?
*What's you fuel pressure @ idle and under load?
*What's your coolant temp?
*What are your vacuum reading @ idle, snap throttle, and under load (this includes needle action as well as reading) with the timing set to factory specs with a timing light?
*What are the condition of your air filter, throttle body and IAC motor. Did you bother to clean them? Did you screw with the throttle plate settings like you aren't supposed to? With the vehicle shutting off, I'd look at this long and hard.
*What's your electrical system doing?
*What's the condition of your primary and secondary ignition- did you check spark voltage? Do you have new parts- plugs, wires, etc, etc? Are your plug gaps correct? What do the plugs look like... if you know how to read a plug... Did you check resistance of the wires? Coil resistance?
*Was the motor even assembled correctly? Does it have vacuum leaks? What's your compression readings? Are the cam and pistons stock (duration, lift, compression...)?
*Have you thought to check for codes?
*Have you looked at any sensor readings to see what information the computer is seeing?
*How does it run? Rough? Smooth? Does it miss at all?
*Have you checked your oil pressure with a mechanical gauge to see what's wrong there?

If you set it correctly with a timing light and it only has a vacuum reading of 15, then something is very wrong. Set the timing to factory specs and then see what the other problem is.

How's that?

You give me almost no information, tell me how you did it wrong, and then give me $h!t for telling you to do it the right way.

Typical.

Good luck.


And while I'm at it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnforgiven View Post
...a new engine will get stronger as miles are put on it and as the rings seat.
That's old-school thinking. Modern rings will seat almost immediately. If somebody fires up a new motor and it smokes or runs poorly, "wait for the rings to seat" is BS used to distract from what he/she did wrong.

That motor is 6 months old; there should be no issues from the build, if it was done correctly.
__________________
"I'll try to be nicer if you'll stop being an idiot."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve83 View Post
Is he STILL arguing this? I put him on my ignore list years ago, so I don't have to read his ranting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnforgiven View Post
Years? He's only been here since February of this year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnforgiven View Post
87Rougneck knows his shit, even though he can be a dick. I'd listen to him.
87Roughneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2013, 04:54 PM   #9
broncobuster4X4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 15
iTrader: (0)
Ok 87Roughneck, in my opinion it seemed like you were being a little nasty and giving me a smart ass answer. you're right, i dont know how to time an engine properly, obviously which is why im coming here for help, and the answer you gave me did no help to try and help me understand why i was doing it wrong, all it did was make me feel like an idiot. if I misinterpretted your statement then I apologize and hope that you can still help me further.

My college professors are not telling me how to do anything, im trying to do it all on my own and with the knowledge gained from here. SO to start fresh right now.

The engine was replace 6 months ago with a Long block 351W bought from autozone, pretty sure it was called a surefire engine? I do not have the paperwork in front of me as I am at school. replaced almost every part that bolts to the engine, except for pulleys, intake manifold and plenum, throttle body, injectors, fuel rail, valve covers, hoses, vacuum lines and probably a couple other things I missed. parts that were replaced:

water pump, all gaskets (sealed with copper RTV) fuel filter, fuel pump, fuel regulator, oil filter, oil pump, oil, motorcraft Plugs, MSD cap and rotor, duralast ignition coil, harmonic balancer, radiator, injector Oring kit, vacuum canisters. and probably other stuff that is slipping my mind.

Yesterday I retimed the engine WITH a timing light. I got it to 10 degrees +/- a degree. it idles at aproximately 900 RPMs now after the re-timing. I have read that the car should be timed while at 1100 RPMs when warmed up. I do not believe I have been doing that, since I do not know how to set the Idle.
*air filters are new, and the throttle body was cleaned. the IAC was not since I never disturbed that. the TPS...yes I took off and am PRETTY sure I put it back correctly, but who knows, other than that I did not touch any sensors.
*checked for codes, and none came up on the indicator.
*went through the Hanes manual and all sensor resistances and voltages are up to spec
*plugs, cap and rotor, and ignition coil are new, wires are not. checked the resistance readings on coil and on the injectors, the read correct. I dont know how to check the readings on wires. Plugs are not fowled and are gapped correctly via the hanes manual.
*oil pressure is being meassured by a sunpro manual oil pressure guage, and reads over 100 right now. dont know why and as stated has been increasing more and more since the engine has been dropped in.
*everything on the engine is stock, cams, lifters, everything. i do not know what the compression values are on the engine, and as to my knowledge it was put back together correctly. this was my first engine teardown/build-up, but I used pictures I took, hanes manual and chiltons manual to rebuild. i had no extra parts left over, and didnt have to muscle anything on, so I'm over 95% confident everything is on correctly.
* i do not have a numeric temp guage for coolant, but it is normal as per the standard guage on the dash.
* I do not know the current fuel pressure or vacuum readings after the timing done yesterday.


however, i did time by light yesterday and as stated it was very close to 10 degrees. ran fine around my neighborhood, and on the highway. as i pulled onto campus I started to hear a knock, where the frequency increased as the RPMs increased. it was dark and late so i did a quick visual inspection of the engine bay and saw nothing visually wrong. I do not know what happened that the knock all of a sudden came about. I have not touched the truck since last night.

This is the most info I can think of right now and tried to answer all your points to the best of my ability. If any other info is needed just let me know.

thanks
broncobuster4X4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2013, 09:42 PM   #10
TheUnforgiven
Dr. Brian & Mr. Unfer
 
TheUnforgiven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Oswego, Illinois
Posts: 18,427
iTrader: (10)
Bronco Info: 2006 Kia Spectra
Quote:
Originally Posted by 87Roughneck View Post

And while I'm at it:


That's old-school thinking. Modern rings will seat almost immediately. If somebody fires up a new motor and it smokes or runs poorly, "wait for the rings to seat" is BS used to distract from what he/she did wrong.

That motor is 6 months old; there should be no issues from the build, if it was done correctly.
Broncobuster....87Rougneck knows his shit, even though he can be a dick. I'd listen to him.

Speaking of that....I didn't know that Roughneck. I wasn't referring so much to it smoking or running poorly, i was referencing to his engine not feeling like it has enough oomph. I've read (i know it's not the same....) many builds here where the owner has mentioned how "the engine got stronger" from 0 miles to 500-1000 miles. I haven't built an engine but I've read a lot and watched plenty. If i'm wrong, i'm wrong.
__________________
2006 Kia Spectra 4 banger/5 speed that tows a 14ft boat while getting better gas mileage than any of your broncos could ever dream of getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Bronco" John Galt View Post
New nuts are in the plan.
"Kids, they see the good in everything and through their eyes, they open ours." - Hank Davis
TheUnforgiven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2013, 09:52 PM   #11
TheUnforgiven
Dr. Brian & Mr. Unfer
 
TheUnforgiven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Oswego, Illinois
Posts: 18,427
iTrader: (10)
Bronco Info: 2006 Kia Spectra
Quote:
Originally Posted by broncobuster4X4 View Post
Ok 87Roughneck, in my opinion it seemed like you were being a little nasty and giving me a smart ass answer. you're right, i dont know how to time an engine properly, obviously which is why im coming here for help, and the answer you gave me did no help to try and help me understand why i was doing it wrong, all it did was make me feel like an idiot. if I misinterpretted your statement then I apologize and hope that you can still help me further.

My college professors are not telling me how to do anything, im trying to do it all on my own and with the knowledge gained from here. SO to start fresh right now.

The engine was replace 6 months ago with a Long block 351W bought from autozone, pretty sure it was called a surefire engine? I do not have the paperwork in front of me as I am at school. replaced almost every part that bolts to the engine, except for pulleys, intake manifold and plenum, throttle body, injectors, fuel rail, valve covers, hoses, vacuum lines and probably a couple other things I missed. parts that were replaced:

water pump, all gaskets (sealed with copper RTV) fuel filter, fuel pump, fuel regulator, oil filter, oil pump, oil, motorcraft Plugs, MSD cap and rotor, duralast ignition coil...Junk! Go put the original motorcraft back on or buy another motorcraft. They are the best coils for these engines and RARELY fail. I can count on 1 hand how many motorcraft coils i've seen fail on this forum in almost 10 years., harmonic balancer, radiator, injector Oring kit, vacuum canisters. and probably other stuff that is slipping my mind.

Yesterday I retimed the engine WITH a timing light. I got it to 10 degrees +/- a degree. it idles at aproximately 900 RPMs now after the re-timing. I have read that the car should be timed while at 1100 RPMs when warmed up. I do not believe I have been doing that, since I do not know how to set the Idle.
*air filters are new, and the throttle body was cleaned. the IAC was not since I never disturbed that. the TPS...yes I took off and am PRETTY sure I put it back correctly, but who knows, other than that I did not touch any sensors.
*checked for codes, and none came up on the indicator. Indicator? you mean a scanner? Unless it's an old snap-on brick i would be pulling the codes with a paperclip. I'll post the link to learn how at the bottom of this post.
*went through the Hanes manual and all sensor resistances and voltages are up to spec
*plugs, cap and rotor, and ignition coil are new, wires are not. checked the resistance readings on coil and on the injectors, the read correct. I dont know how to check the readings on wiresread their resistance like any other wire. put the + lead of meter on 1 end of the wire, put the - lead on the other end and read the resistance. is it in spec? is it not? are they original? if they are original scrap them. if they are cheap knock-offs scrap them. I use the Autolite professional series exclusively and have had no complaints ever. had at Advance Auto for an acceptable price.. Plugs are not fowled and are gapped correctly via the hanes manual.
*oil pressure is being meassured by a sunpro manual oil pressure guage, and reads over 100 right now. dont know why and as stated has been increasing more and more since the engine has been dropped in.Either the pressure release in the oil pumps is failing, or the gauge is fawked. put another gauge in it and see what happens. And engine shouldn't gain pressure with age. although at this point you shouldn't see any discernible loss either.
*everything on the engine is stock, cams, lifters, everything. i do not know what the compression values are on the engine, and as to my knowledge it was put back together correctly. this was my first engine teardown/build-up, but I used pictures I took, hanes manual and chiltons manual to rebuild. i had no extra parts left over, and didnt have to muscle anything on, so I'm over 95% confident everything is on correctly. Don't know the compression? Check it. post those numbers. You'll know immediately if you have something fawked up here.
* i do not have a numeric temp guage for coolant, but it is normal as per the standard guage on the dash.
* I do not know the current fuel pressure or vacuum readings after the timing done yesterday. Get them. The fuel pressure tool isn't expensive, some places rent them. it should be around 34psi engine running at idle, and about 40psi at WOT or with the vacuum line off the regulator. While we're on that subject, pull that vac line off the FPR and smell it. if it smells like fuel the regulator is garbage.


however, i did time by light yesterday and as stated it was very close to 10 degrees. ran fine around my neighborhood, and on the highway. as i pulled onto campus I started to hear a knock, where the frequency increased as the RPMs increased. it was dark and late so i did a quick visual inspection of the engine bay and saw nothing visually wrong. I do not know what happened that the knock all of a sudden came about. I have not touched the truck since last night.

This is the most info I can think of right now and tried to answer all your points to the best of my ability. If any other info is needed just let me know.

thanks
I don't remember if you answered sackman....did you pull the Spout connector before you timed it? I'm relatively sure you did (if you didn't you probably wouldn't see 10* timing) but it doesn't hurt to ask.

oldfuelinjection.com.....this is where you learn how to pull codes with a paperclip, and where you can do a LOT of reading about how Ford's EEC and EFI system works.
__________________
2006 Kia Spectra 4 banger/5 speed that tows a 14ft boat while getting better gas mileage than any of your broncos could ever dream of getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Bronco" John Galt View Post
New nuts are in the plan.
"Kids, they see the good in everything and through their eyes, they open ours." - Hank Davis
TheUnforgiven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2013, 11:07 PM   #12
broncobuster4X4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 15
iTrader: (0)
the unforgiven:

I am not doubting that he knows his stuff, I text can be easily misinterpreted as there are no tones or feeling behind the words for the reader to interpret, and as stated in the previous post, if I did misinterpret it, then I apologize to him.

to your responses:
* I do have the fuel pressure tool, it is at home however so I dont have access to it right now but will this weekend. but those numbers sound like what I was getting when I had timed it by vacuum give or take a few, even though that doesnt matter at all right now.
* I thought duralast was a good manufacturer? i know motorcraft is the ford specific part-to-use, i didnt think it would make that much of a difference however, but i'll change that then too. I'm going to make a list of stuff to grab this weekend, unless i figure out what the knock is in the engine. I finish class at 11 tomorrow so im going to take a look at it tomorrow.
* as for the scanner, yes its the old brick style plug-in and when i said indicator, i was refering to the red light that blinks. i think of it as an indicator light sorry. but i'll try the paperclip method tomorrow while im at it.
*the fuel regulator was just replaced in october. I will check the for the smell though anyways.
* and yes i did pull the spout connector when I timed.

So i will post back tomorrow with these readings:
wire resistances (and yes they are the original wires)
coil resistance
timing
vacuum pressure
I'll try doing the paperclip codes while im at it.

I dont want to drive it or have it running for more time than I have to because of that knock so If anyone has any ideas of why that knock would randomly start up, post em up and i'll start checking them off my to do list lol

thanks guys
broncobuster4X4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2013, 11:35 PM   #13
TheUnforgiven
Dr. Brian & Mr. Unfer
 
TheUnforgiven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Oswego, Illinois
Posts: 18,427
iTrader: (10)
Bronco Info: 2006 Kia Spectra
Quote:
Originally Posted by broncobuster4X4 View Post
the unforgiven:

I am not doubting that he knows his stuff, I text can be easily misinterpreted as there are no tones or feeling behind the words for the reader to interpret, and as stated in the previous post, if I did misinterpret it, then I apologize to him.

to your responses:
* I do have the fuel pressure tool, it is at home however so I dont have access to it right now but will this weekend. but those numbers sound like what I was getting when I had timed it by vacuum give or take a few, even though that doesnt matter at all right now. Fuel pressure numbers have nothing to do with the vacuum readings you were talking about. The fuel pressure regulator is ran by vacuum, that's the only correlation they have.
* I thought duralast was a good manufacturer? i know motorcraft is the ford specific part-to-use, i didnt think it would make that much of a difference however, but i'll change that then too. I'm going to make a list of stuff to grab this weekend, unless i figure out what the knock is in the engine. I finish class at 11 tomorrow so im going to take a look at it tomorrow. Autozone parts are garbage. Stay away from MSD coils as well, they also suck ass. Ford coils almost never fail. I've used the Accel coils in the past and had no issues, although others here have had problems. You can find a cheap motorcraft coil (or three) in a junkyard near you. they are small enough to be pocket items also.
* as for the scanner, yes its the old brick style plug-in and when i said indicator, i was refering to the red light that blinks. i think of it as an indicator light sorry. but i'll try the paperclip method tomorrow while im at it.The snap-on brick i'm referring to doesn't just blink to read you codes, it will outright say what the code is on the LCD display.
*the fuel regulator was just replaced in october. I will check the for the smell though anyways. Then it's probably fine, but yes chec it anyway.
* and yes i did pull the spout connector when I timed.

So i will post back tomorrow with these readings:
wire resistances (and yes they are the original wires) Original from 1990?! throw them away. They are a CRUCIAL part of your secondary ignition system. Don't cheap out on them.
coil resistance Not very crucial. a coil, for the most part, either works or it doesn't. when they start getting weak they will throw a yellow or orange spark as opposed to a blue or white spark. I was suggesting replacing the duracrap coil for a ford coil purely for reliability. i wouldn't trust that durajunk as far as I could throw it for anything but idling the engine.
timing
vacuum
I'll try doing the paperclip codes while im at it.

I dont want to drive it or have it running for more time than I have to because of that knock so If anyone has any ideas of why that knock would randomly start up, post em up and i'll start checking them off my to do list lol
Are you sure the knock isn't an exhaust leak?
thanks guys
.
__________________
2006 Kia Spectra 4 banger/5 speed that tows a 14ft boat while getting better gas mileage than any of your broncos could ever dream of getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Bronco" John Galt View Post
New nuts are in the plan.
"Kids, they see the good in everything and through their eyes, they open ours." - Hank Davis
TheUnforgiven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 08:08 AM   #14
87Roughneck
Registered User
 
87Roughneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Gloucester, VA
Posts: 648
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: '87 Bronco Custom; 300cid EFI w/ 3" exhaust; 35" Goodyear Wrangler Kevlar MTRs on 15x8; 2.5" lift
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnforgiven View Post
Broncobuster....87Rougneck knows his shit, even though he can be a dick. I'd listen to him.

Speaking of that....I didn't know that Roughneck. I wasn't referring so much to it smoking or running poorly, i was referencing to his engine not feeling like it has enough oomph. I've read (i know it's not the same....) many builds here where the owner has mentioned how "the engine got stronger" from 0 miles to 500-1000 miles. I haven't built an engine but I've read a lot and watched plenty. If i'm wrong, i'm wrong.


That just went in the signature line!

Sorry, brother...!

Yeah, I certainly can be, but I mean well!!!! I think I was on my manstrual cycle again yesterday...

Good catch on the MSD ignition and the original wires; that's probably most of his problem. Interesting that somebody would spend that much money on a crate motor and new coil and still use the original wires...

Maybe a motor gets a little more power as it "loosens up" a bit, but if I had to guess I'd say it's more likely that as it gets a few miles on it the driver gets more comfortable with putting his foot down a little harder. IDK...

__________________
"I'll try to be nicer if you'll stop being an idiot."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve83 View Post
Is he STILL arguing this? I put him on my ignore list years ago, so I don't have to read his ranting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnforgiven View Post
Years? He's only been here since February of this year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnforgiven View Post
87Rougneck knows his shit, even though he can be a dick. I'd listen to him.
87Roughneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 10:36 AM   #15
TheUnforgiven
Dr. Brian & Mr. Unfer
 
TheUnforgiven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Oswego, Illinois
Posts: 18,427
iTrader: (10)
Bronco Info: 2006 Kia Spectra
Quote:
Originally Posted by 87Roughneck View Post


That just went in the signature line!

Sorry, brother...!

Yeah, I certainly can be, but I mean well!!!! I think I was on my manstrual cycle again yesterday...

Good catch on the MSD ignition and the original wires; that's probably most of his problem. Interesting that somebody would spend that much money on a crate motor and new coil and still use the original wires...

Maybe a motor gets a little more power as it "loosens up" a bit, but if I had to guess I'd say it's more likely that as it gets a few miles on it the driver gets more comfortable with putting his foot down a little harder. IDK...

Yeah I found it odd that after all that work he'd leave the 1990 Ford wires on it. That's alright, it's his first build and he's learning. The MSD cap/rotor is ok but i tend to stay away from anything msd personally.

That's all i was referring to with the engine, was loosening up. But yes you have a good point with the driver getting more comfortable. I sure know how I drove my ex's escort after i put 2 engines in it and the last one i had the head rebuilt.....in 5 weeks....long story....
__________________
2006 Kia Spectra 4 banger/5 speed that tows a 14ft boat while getting better gas mileage than any of your broncos could ever dream of getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Bronco" John Galt View Post
New nuts are in the plan.
"Kids, they see the good in everything and through their eyes, they open ours." - Hank Davis
TheUnforgiven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 11:42 AM   #16
sackman9975
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
 
sackman9975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Livonia Michigan
Posts: 6,847
iTrader: (42)
Bronco Info: 1995 Eddie Bauer 357w, E303 cam on S/D, Warn premium hubs, 3 inch exhaust with flowmaster 40
1990 Bronco with original (23 yr old) wires???!!!!

CHANGE THEM.......
__________________


~ Scott ~

~E303 w/Flowmaster 40 & 3inch exhaust rumble ~ 213k & counting. Now my daily driver once again. ~
~ Bronco owner/Driver/Mechanic/Enthusiast for 23 years ~
sackman9975 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 11:02 PM   #17
broncobuster4X4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 15
iTrader: (0)
okay, sorry for the delayed response time. I checked the VICI that you said to 87roughneck, and it says that my idle is non adjustable. besides that I checked the proper timing procedure on it and did it exactly as described and came up with the same timing. it does run better, meaning smoother, and doesnt bog in reverse or die. but i still have no power. I did not get a chance to check fuel pressure readings, but i did check vacuum and it isnt even at 15 anymore.
how do I check for vacuum leaks within the system.
I found those autolite wires you mentioned Unforgiven. but on advanced auto parts they are like, 140 dollars? but on summit they are only 40? so i dont get that. tomorrow I am putting the old coil back on and taking the duralast one off. after that I will chekc back and see if it performs any different.
broncobuster4X4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 11:33 PM   #18
TheUnforgiven
Dr. Brian & Mr. Unfer
 
TheUnforgiven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Oswego, Illinois
Posts: 18,427
iTrader: (10)
Bronco Info: 2006 Kia Spectra
Really, you found it? Please tell me where. http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...e+professional PART NUMBER 96261 Autolite Professional wires.

Use starting fluid to help find vacuum leaks, but an engine can have poor vacuum if something is WRONG with it, even though it runs ok. Have you performed a compression test yet? Do that please. Also, with the ORIGINAL 1990 WIRES you're shooting in the dark on "it lacks power". Replace them wires bud before you spend a fawking PENNY on anything else.
__________________
2006 Kia Spectra 4 banger/5 speed that tows a 14ft boat while getting better gas mileage than any of your broncos could ever dream of getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Bronco" John Galt View Post
New nuts are in the plan.
"Kids, they see the good in everything and through their eyes, they open ours." - Hank Davis
TheUnforgiven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 07:47 AM   #19
87Roughneck
Registered User
 
87Roughneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Gloucester, VA
Posts: 648
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: '87 Bronco Custom; 300cid EFI w/ 3" exhaust; 35" Goodyear Wrangler Kevlar MTRs on 15x8; 2.5" lift
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnforgiven View Post
Really, you found it? Please tell me where. http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...e+professional PART NUMBER 96261 Autolite Professional wires.

Use starting fluid to help find vacuum leaks, but an engine can have poor vacuum if something is WRONG with it, even though it runs ok. Have you performed a compression test yet? Do that please. Also, with the ORIGINAL 1990 WIRES you're shooting in the dark on "it lacks power". Replace them wires bud before you spend a fawking PENNY on anything else.


Put a good set of wires on it, put a decent coil on it, and see what it does.
__________________
"I'll try to be nicer if you'll stop being an idiot."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve83 View Post
Is he STILL arguing this? I put him on my ignore list years ago, so I don't have to read his ranting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnforgiven View Post
Years? He's only been here since February of this year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnforgiven View Post
87Rougneck knows his shit, even though he can be a dick. I'd listen to him.
87Roughneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 03:31 PM   #20
broncobuster4X4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 15
iTrader: (0)
so update:

last week i changed the coil back from the duralast to the original one with the car. reason being you said duralast was shit, so i figured id try it. didnt change much. changed out the wires today and saw a 2" difference in vacuum, but still only at about 13. I went to advanced and had asked for a motorcraft coil, but they said they didnt make one, that their computers said the OEM part was delphi. is that true?

now a question. with all vacuum lines hooked up, i put my hand in front of the exhaust and feel a slight pulse at even intervals, as if one cylinder is putting out more exhaust than the others or something. when I remove the MAP sensor, the pulse goes away. it also goes away if I take off the vacuum line that, if im not mistaken, controls the AC and heat diaphrams. its the line coming off the tree on the manifold, and then splits at a T and goes to the passenger side firewall.
any idea what that could be?

EDIT:
just went out and did the self test.

KOEO codes :
11 - system pass
continuous memory - 33 - EGR valve opening not detected

KOER codes

1st test:
i accidentally depressed and then released the OD off switch instead of depressing the brake after the ID so these are the codes i get:

13 - RPM unable to reach lower test limit
73 - insufficient TP change during dynamic testing

2nd test:
this time I depressed the brake and released instead of doing the OD switch and these were the codes i get:
13 - RPM unable to reach lower test limit
65 - overdrive cancel switch open, no change seen(E4OD)

Last edited by broncobuster4X4; 02-06-2013 at 04:58 PM. Reason: new stuff
broncobuster4X4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  FSB Forums > Bronco Discussions > Noobie Bronco Tech Questions. Flame free zone!


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:35 PM.


2003-2009 FullSizeBronco.com. All rights reserved