Diff questions concerning FSB and off roading - FSB Forums
Register Home Forums Active Topics Photo Gallery All Albums Mark Forums Read Auto EscrowInsurance FSB Store
FullsizeBronco.com is the premier Ford Bronco Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-12-2013, 04:35 PM   #1
AZ_BRONCO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cochise County Az
Posts: 47
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: 84 Bronco XLT, originally a 302-2v, now a 351c 2v.3.55 LSD front and rear
Diff questions concerning FSB and off roading

As it states in my info, my 84 Bronco has 3.55 gears with Limited Slip front and rear. Dana 44 up front and 8.8 in the back.

I am interested in potentially installing a lunchbox style (ratcheting) locker in this vehicle. Would it be better to put the locker in the 8.8 or would it be better suited in the TTB Dana 44?

I ask because I've read some people look down at the capabilities of the TTB off road.

What's everyone think?

Also as far as regearing the diffs. I've read that the 8.8 doesn't have a carrier break. So does this mean I could find any old open carrier from a full size Ford 8.8 and put my ring gear on it from the LSD carrier?
AZ_BRONCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-12-2013, 04:49 PM   #2
kemicalburns
Never Done
 
kemicalburns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: OC,Oregon
Posts: 6,486
iTrader: (5)
probably should start with a locker out back. i recommend an aussie locker.
__________________
94 XLT 357/E4OD Trans-go stage II
6" Stage II ProComp,35x12.50BFG/AT
4.88 f (aussie) / r (open) / Custom Sliders
JBA headers,Custom Y pipe hi flow cat & Full 3"
kemicalburns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 04:58 PM   #3
AZ_BRONCO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cochise County Az
Posts: 47
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: 84 Bronco XLT, originally a 302-2v, now a 351c 2v.3.55 LSD front and rear
I hear ya on the Aussie Locker...I have one in the rear of my Jeep Cherokee and I love it...
.
AZ_BRONCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 05:36 PM   #4
Fordlife
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: ocala fl
Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: 87 bronco 302/c6 4x4
i would NOT put a locker up front with stock u joints/ axle shafts, due to the fact that too much stress is put on them when you turn the wheel, plus lockers/welded front make it dam near impossible to turn. lock it in the back and leave the ls up front, u will be pleased. however i would i would go with 4.10s in both and youll feel the power big time
__________________
87 4x4 fsb 302/c6 lifted clears 40s,

95 4x4 fsb 351w E40d parts truck, ( tranny commited suicide)

67 chevy c20, built 327/ t400, eaton 10 bolt 4.10s. project truck
Fordlife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 07:31 PM   #5
buffaloroams
Man with a Golden ticket
 
buffaloroams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Battle Ground
Posts: 3,993
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: 96 blackout XLT Sport 5.8L E4OD, 4" Rancho w/ 35" MTR's
From my readings on the subject.
(I am looking into what way to go with regearing and locking mine)

I take it that any kind of locker other than an air locker in the front is a bad idea for any vehicle that will still see on-road driving?

For driveability and tire wear how does the Aussie lockers fare on-road?
Is there any advantage to them vs a welded Diff?
__________________
You just might be a redneck if you start a conversation with:
"happened to us when Dad got pinched by the feds."
- Biker Pepe' -
buffaloroams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 09:16 PM   #6
El Kabong
Driving Stuff Henry Built
 
El Kabong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 5,187
iTrader: (9)
Bronco Info: -90 xlt, 351w, e4od, 3.55:1, sag, warn hubs, trans cooler, 35" bfg m/t, -73, 400, np435, 35s
Here's my 2 cents. Based on research for my own use, not experience, yet. The norm is to lock the rear first. Components are heavier for the rear, & if only one end has traction, the rear would be the choice.

Probably stay with the LS up front, but if you run a front locker, with the hubs unlocked, it shouldn't be a problem on the street. It's tight turns offroad that seem to be the issue. You will need a different carrier if you go past 3.73:1 up front.

Yes, you will need an open carrier for the lunchbox in the rear instead of your LS carrier. You should be able to reuse your existing gears on the new carrier, but with the effort involved in setting them up, you might want to find a complete open rear instead. Part of the appeal of a lunchbox locker is not having to set up gears. Someone would probably be willing to trade your complete LS rear end for their open. Or wait until you regear everything.

Here are a couple of good threads on the differences between LS, Lockers, Spools, Etc.
All About Lockers by peteyg.
What's the DIFF??? by Steve83.

Here is a cool gear ratio calculator, if you want to see comparisons with various tire sizes & ratios: http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html
And some FAQs on gear ratios.
__________________
Baba Looey's Favorite FSB Links........................Common Replies to FAQs

“Don't find fault, find a remedy.” -Henry Ford
El Kabong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 09:43 PM   #7
buffaloroams
Man with a Golden ticket
 
buffaloroams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Battle Ground
Posts: 3,993
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: 96 blackout XLT Sport 5.8L E4OD, 4" Rancho w/ 35" MTR's
Thanks Ken,
That does help some.
I already looked at the gear calculator and figured I would need 4.56.

Didn't realize that won't work with my stock front carrier?

My plan was to find a good 9" hopefully out of a Lincoln with Disc brakes.
With all the work, I just can't see doing it without doing a disc brake swap.

I understand that the 9" has just enough extra space to handle some of the mods required.

I would love to go to an ARB air type locker front and rear.
First for the ability to choose when I want to lock up and secondly I love the idea of having onboard air.

But that is an expensive way to go and if I go there I have to go all the way.
Kinda hard to do it in phases if I understand it all correctly.

So far I have been surviving with the stock 3.55's and traction lock but I know that can't last forever running 35" tires and doing some moderately tough wheeling.

I know that I need to start preparing for when (not IF) I start breaking things.
__________________
You just might be a redneck if you start a conversation with:
"happened to us when Dad got pinched by the feds."
- Biker Pepe' -
buffaloroams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 02:17 AM   #8
Steve83
Registered User
 
Steve83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 36,291
iTrader: (101)
Bronco Info: '83 VIN & title on '93 frame/body w/'95 4.9L & EB paint
Bad idea - the 9" is substantially weaker in every way. And everything that can be done to strengthen it can be done more-effectively to your stock 8.8". Even factory disk brakes.
__________________
Walk softly & carry a BIG SIX ! ! !

. .
Steve83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 02:57 AM   #9
buffaloroams
Man with a Golden ticket
 
buffaloroams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Battle Ground
Posts: 3,993
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: 96 blackout XLT Sport 5.8L E4OD, 4" Rancho w/ 35" MTR's
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve83 View Post
Bad idea - the 9" is substantially weaker in every way. And everything that can be done to strengthen it can be done more-effectively to your stock 8.8". Even factory disk brakes.
I would prefer to stay with the 8.8 but I thought during my reading there was problems with the carriers for the lockers fitting in the 8.8?

I apologize in advance for my ignorance but all the information on gearing and differentials has my head spinning a little.

And I did know there is a way to mate the explorer disc brake parts to the 8.8.
Originally that was my plan until I read about the problem withe the 8.8 and gears.
__________________
You just might be a redneck if you start a conversation with:
"happened to us when Dad got pinched by the feds."
- Biker Pepe' -
buffaloroams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 12:13 AM   #10
El Kabong
Driving Stuff Henry Built
 
El Kabong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 5,187
iTrader: (9)
Bronco Info: -90 xlt, 351w, e4od, 3.55:1, sag, warn hubs, trans cooler, 35" bfg m/t, -73, 400, np435, 35s
Jim, I think you need to keep something with a VSS for your 96. It affects the shifting of your trans, ABS, speedo, & idon'tknowwhatall.

Have you seen bossind's Rear Discs on My 96 Bronco?
__________________
Baba Looey's Favorite FSB Links........................Common Replies to FAQs

“Don't find fault, find a remedy.” -Henry Ford
El Kabong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 01:20 AM   #11
Steve83
Registered User
 
Steve83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 36,291
iTrader: (101)
Bronco Info: '83 VIN & title on '93 frame/body w/'95 4.9L & EB paint
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffaloroams View Post
...problems with the carriers for the lockers fitting in the 8.8?
No, an 8.8" locker fits an 8.8" housing just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffaloroams View Post
...there is a way to mate the explorer disc brake parts to the 8.8.
Explorer disks COME on an 8.8, but it's a narrow-track 28-spline with skinny axleshafts, small tubes, and small wheel flanges for the rotors to fit over. So putting those tiny brakes on a Bronco is like swapping to a 4-banger.

I'm talking about using modern Ford 1/2-ton truck 5-on-5.5" rear disks on a Bronco:



I haven't found a set of those brakes that I can afford yet, but I'm lookin'... I've already got the 16" rims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
...& idon'tknowwhatall.
Temperature! (Seriously.)

__________________
Walk softly & carry a BIG SIX ! ! !

. .
Steve83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 01:29 AM   #12
buffaloroams
Man with a Golden ticket
 
buffaloroams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Battle Ground
Posts: 3,993
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: 96 blackout XLT Sport 5.8L E4OD, 4" Rancho w/ 35" MTR's
Ken,
Thanks for reminding me about the VSS.
I had completely forgotten about that.

Yes I had read Boss's thread before and had originally planned to go this direction as I like the idea of being able to use OEM parts. I have saved his thread so I can go back there. I always do that when I find mods I will eventually do someday so I don't have to re-search out where they are.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what I'm reading (not like THAT ever happens!)
But I thought there was something about space in the 8.8 for the necessary gearing and locker??

If I get a 8.8 out of an exploder then what
I need to go to 4.56 gearing and I would like to lock up the rear somehow, although the traction lock so far has been dang good off-road.

If I get a locker up front with manual hubs will that work?

Eventually I will want to go to an ARB setup.
Is this something I can do after I have made all the other mods to the front and rear that I want?

I know for some of the gearheads on here I sound like an idiot but I understand the theory behind what is going on I just don't understand the technical aspects of how to make it happen. I just drive them, I don't build them. I hire smart people for that.

Some of the work I will do myself but a lot of it I will farm out.
So what I really need to figure out is what I need to buy to accomplish where I want to go.
Essentially I need to build a shopping list.
__________________
You just might be a redneck if you start a conversation with:
"happened to us when Dad got pinched by the feds."
- Biker Pepe' -
buffaloroams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 01:46 AM   #13
Steve83
Registered User
 
Steve83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 36,291
iTrader: (101)
Bronco Info: '83 VIN & title on '93 frame/body w/'95 4.9L & EB paint
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffaloroams View Post
If I get a 8.8 out of an exploder...
The only Explorer 8.8" parts that fit a Bronco are the ring & pinion.
__________________
Walk softly & carry a BIG SIX ! ! !

. .
Steve83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 04:19 AM   #14
buffaloroams
Man with a Golden ticket
 
buffaloroams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Battle Ground
Posts: 3,993
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: 96 blackout XLT Sport 5.8L E4OD, 4" Rancho w/ 35" MTR's
So if I find an E150 04+ 8.8 rear end with disc brakes,
It will basically be a bolt on swap?

I really do appreciate all the information you provide Steve but sometimes you provide so much information I feel like I am going down the rabbit hole when I am following your supermotors posts.

Maybe if I was a mechanic all that technical information would be a lot clearer to me.
__________________
You just might be a redneck if you start a conversation with:
"happened to us when Dad got pinched by the feds."
- Biker Pepe' -
buffaloroams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 10:28 AM   #15
AUBronco
Fullsize Member
 
AUBronco's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 2,569
iTrader: (7)
Bronco Info: 89 EB 302/ AOD/ 4:56/ Aussie Rear/ L/S front/ 3G/ 2.5" Lift/ 35" M/T's
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemicalburns View Post
probably should start with a locker out back. i recommend an aussie locker.
I'll agree with this all day long.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffaloroams View Post

For driveability and tire wear how does the Aussie lockers fare on-road?
Is there any advantage to them vs a welded Diff?
Several years ago I re-geared and locked my axle at the same time. Best thing I ever did to my bronco. I put 4.56 gears with and Aussie locker in the rear and love it. I don't DD it as much any more as I need a truck (with a bed) but I did DD for a long time after install. It does take some getting used to as the axles are locked together. Driving down the interstate has been no problem through tight city streets take some getting used too. I like to let mine coast through corners and tight turns so the locker will unlock (you can hear it ratchet). Where as with a welded rear it wont do that. Offroad it is awesome locks up and gives power to both wheels all the time.

On the front I went with a factory L/S that I put extra clutches in and works really well. I did that because I didn't want a locker to destroy my front in but the L/S gives me the advantage to having both wells spin until it gets bound up and then it starts slipping. On road with hubs unlocked can't even tell its there.
__________________
Patrick

89 EB Bronco: 302, AOD, 4:56's, Rear Aussie Locked, Front L/S and Warn Hubs, 35" M/T's, 2.5" lift . Sliders. More to come.
My supermotors page
AUBronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2013, 03:40 AM   #16
Steve83
Registered User
 
Steve83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 36,291
iTrader: (101)
Bronco Info: '83 VIN & title on '93 frame/body w/'95 4.9L & EB paint
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffaloroams View Post
So if I find an E150 04+ 8.8 rear end with disc brakes, It will basically be a bolt on swap?
No. The spring perches will probably have to be moved; the shock mounts certainly will; and something will have to be done about the e-brake cables.

But other than that: yeah, I expect it to be a VERY easy swap.
__________________
Walk softly & carry a BIG SIX ! ! !

. .
Steve83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2013, 04:31 AM   #17
buffaloroams
Man with a Golden ticket
 
buffaloroams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Battle Ground
Posts: 3,993
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: 96 blackout XLT Sport 5.8L E4OD, 4" Rancho w/ 35" MTR's
Ken, Patrick and Steve,
Thank you all.

Your explanations for someone who is admittedly dumber than a 5th grader has helped me simplify the plethora of information about front and rear diff's, lockers and brakes.

I think I know enough now to put a plan together.
I am suscribing to this thread now so I can come back to it.

Now to try and locate a E150 complete rear so I can test just how stupid it's possible for a grown man to be.

I would probably stand back at a safe distance once I try this.
__________________
You just might be a redneck if you start a conversation with:
"happened to us when Dad got pinched by the feds."
- Biker Pepe' -
buffaloroams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2013, 04:50 PM   #18
bluebolt
Fullsize Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Benton LA near Shreveport
Posts: 187
iTrader: (3)
Bronco Info: 1974 Bronco with 351w, 1978 F150 4x4 with 1966 F100 cab
Explorer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve83 View Post
No, an 8.8" locker fits an 8.8" housing just fine. Explorer disks COME on an 8.8, but it's a narrow-track 28-spline with skinny axleshafts, small tubes, and small wheel flanges for the rotors to fit over. So putting those tiny brakes on a Bronco is like swapping to a 4-banger.

I'm talking about using modern Ford 1/2-ton truck 5-on-5.5" rear disks on a Bronco:



I haven't found a set of those brakes that I can afford yet, but I'm lookin'... I've already got the 16" rims.Temperature! (Seriously.)

Actually the Explorer axle is a 31 spline. Early ones are drum but the 1995 up are all disc brake. The disc brakes can be adapted to a Bronco, the rotors will have to be drilled for the 5 1/2" pattern and the outside of the Bronco axle flange machined down to fit inside the rotor. The caliper bracket pretty much bolts on. There is a good article mentioned previously. They are smaller than the E150 but will clear 15" wheels without a problem. I have one here, used the traction loc carrier and a Ford Racing carbon fiber clutch kit to upgrade a Mustang axle I put 31 spline Moser axles in. Some came with 4.11 gears as well. Most of the V8 2wd Explorers I have found had limited slip 3.73's.
bluebolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2013, 08:06 PM   #19
Steve83
Registered User
 
Steve83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 36,291
iTrader: (101)
Bronco Info: '83 VIN & title on '93 frame/body w/'95 4.9L & EB paint
I guess I never ran across an Explorer solid 8.8" w/31s. I thought only the independents got that. But I still wouldn't put those little disks under a Bronco.
__________________
Walk softly & carry a BIG SIX ! ! !

. .
Steve83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 02:31 AM   #20
bluebolt
Fullsize Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Benton LA near Shreveport
Posts: 187
iTrader: (3)
Bronco Info: 1974 Bronco with 351w, 1978 F150 4x4 with 1966 F100 cab
Discs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve83 View Post
I guess I never ran across an Explorer solid 8.8" w/31s. I thought only the independents got that. But I still wouldn't put those little disks under a Bronco.
I'm not sure why you call them little, they are 11.22" in diameter. Fronts on a 1978-1993 Bronco are 11.26" and 94-96 Bronco are 11.72. Rears on a 2005 E150 are 13" with 12.87 fronts. The rear rotors on both the Explorer and E150 are larger than normal because the parking brake is a small drum brake and more room was needed. I think the Explorer rear brakes would be a decent size match for Bronco front brakes.

Are you by chance confused with a Mustang 1994-2004 8.8 disc brake axle? They are weaker than an Explorer, 28 spline axles, smaller bearings (Explorers use the same rear axle shaft bearings as a Bronco) and 10.5" disc brakes except for the Cobras.
bluebolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  FSB Forums > Bronco Discussions > Noobie Bronco Tech Questions. Flame free zone!


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:54 PM.


© 2003-2009 FullSizeBronco.com. All rights reserved