Stuck in Park - FSB Forums
Register Home Forums Active Topics Photo Gallery All Albums Mark Forums Read Auto EscrowInsurance FSB Store
FullsizeBronco.com is the premier Ford Bronco Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-25-2013, 02:29 AM   #1
dolittle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Southern Il
Posts: 37
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: '90, EB, 5.8l, E40D, 3.55, 132k, PW, PL, 2G Alt, Monroe Reflex, Plastic Gastank, Cedar Bumpers
Stuck in Park

Hi,

Wow. I'm fixing my bronco again.

At the moment my '90 bronco is stuck in park. The steering wheel is not locked. This situation developed after I removed the ignition switch to diagnose a lack of a start position in my key cylinder. I had to remove the column shroud and the bolts on the bracket holding the steering column up so that it could drop a little, and I could get to the the bolts and connector for the ignition switch. I fiddled with the ignition rod to see if it was binding up; not sure yet what the situation is there. I reattached the column bracket, and left the switch dangling. The switch seems to be okay. I can start the engine now by manipulating the ignition switch with a screwdriver. I put the key cylinder back in, but I'm still stuck in park.

Some questions:

What could I have done to damage my shifting ability, and is the ignition rod somehow involved with the shifter? Could my tinkering have disabled the shifter? The ignition rod is loose at the ignition switch; would this cause a problem? BTW, I have a automatic no-tilt column. My bronco is a '90, EB, 5.8, E40D.

Sorry if any of that is unclear...it's late...

Cheers,
Tim
dolittle is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-25-2013, 03:15 AM   #2
Mikey350
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Redford, MI
Posts: 1,610
iTrader: (3)
Bronco Info: '96 Black 302 XLT - '94 Green 351 E. B. both have E4OD, 3.55 axles, 31 10.50x15
It is late, does your truck have the shift interlock whereby the brake pedal had to be depressed before you can shift out of park? Any chance while you were messing with the ignition switch you accidentally did something to the BOO (brake on/off) switch?
__________________
"The simplest solution is usually the best solution" - Occam's Razor

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." - Albert Einstein
Mikey350 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 04:48 AM   #3
dolittle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Southern Il
Posts: 37
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: '90, EB, 5.8l, E40D, 3.55, 132k, PW, PL, 2G Alt, Monroe Reflex, Plastic Gastank, Cedar Bumpers
I looked at the brake switch visually and it seemed to be okay; tomorrow I'll test it electrically. I have read that there was no brake interlock solenoid til '92...I don't know if this means the brake didn't lock the column until '92 onwards or not. It's somewhat confusing.

Thanks for the reply; I'm hitting the hay...
dolittle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 01:04 PM   #4
Steve83
Registered User
 
Steve83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 36,301
iTrader: (101)
Bronco Info: '83 VIN & title on '93 frame/body w/'95 4.9L & EB paint
No brake/shift on the old column - the actuator gear is probably out-of-time, or the actuator is bent. Study this diagram & the actuator thread in the Tech Writeups forum.

__________________
Walk softly & carry a BIG SIX ! ! !

. .
Steve83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 02:21 PM   #5
JKossarides
Fullsize Member
 
JKossarides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Rolling Hills Estates, CA
Posts: 9,061
iTrader: (1)
Bronco Info: 1986 Bronco XLT 4x4 -AOD -Warn Hubs, NEW stock 302EFI (2008) All MSD ignition, 9mm FMSR wires
When my upper ignition actuator broke I didn't fix it right a way but one of the problems I had initailly was that the broken piece would slide forward preventing the steering wheel from turning, and getting it out of Park .....lots of fun while you're driving...lol lol so I rigged a piece of wire across it to keep it from doing that and eventually I tore it down and fixed it..which you may have to do if it's bent or about to break.

Read thru this post by bronco boy to get an idea of what's involved if it "applies" to your 90 BKO but note that the first few pictures show the "brass drive gear" exposed inside and that it's "timed" correctly, the third tooth at the top counting in from right to left is directly in the middle of the key cylinder "track" which is where it needs to be for correct key function e.g. RUN/START, OFF/LOCK, AUX http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/...ad.php?t=70454

Initially when you tear down the steering wheel to replace an upper ignition actuator the key needs to be in the "RUN" position....the actuator part number is listed in the post and can be purchased in any auto parts store in the Help section, mfg is Doorman, costs maybe $10.00 out the door.


Good Luck ~
JKossarides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 12:16 AM   #6
dolittle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Southern Il
Posts: 37
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: '90, EB, 5.8l, E40D, 3.55, 132k, PW, PL, 2G Alt, Monroe Reflex, Plastic Gastank, Cedar Bumpers
Steve83:

I looked over the actuator writeup, and if I have to disassemble the column completely -- which it's looking like I will -- then I'll probably be referring to it. However, my column is a non-tilt, whereas the writeup is for a tilt model...which, from what I've read, is a bit different. In fact, I can't even see the part I'm suspecting (upper actuator, see below) in the writeup's images. Same in the diagram you linked to: the part labeled 'lower actuator' is not in the parts blowup for my column (see diagram below).

Are there any teardowns for an automatic non-tilt?

And on that note, do you (or anyone else) know if there is a exploded view for an auto non-tilt column covering a '90 bronco? The only one I've found -- again, the image below -- is a few years off and has a bunch of cryptic part numbers instead of actual names.

JKossarides:

Our bronco has an upper actuator(pn. 3E723), but when I tried to find an actuator I kept finding the lower actuator for the tilt model...I don't think non-tilt bronco's have these, at least going by this diagram I found:



Anyway, I tried to find a lower actuator last night, but I couldn't hardly find anything about it; I just did some more googling and found something which might be it -- the oem part number has '3E723' in it -- but it says it's not compatible with my bronco, and orielly's says it's only good for the bronco II. All orielly's gives me for my vehicle is the actuator for the tilt model...back to square one. Anyone know what part is actually in mine?

http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-83213-S.../dp/B000DEMLY6

Hope this all makes sense; my brains are a bit frazzled on this one. Ever feel like your vechile is doing this to you?:
dolittle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 11:29 AM   #7
JKossarides
Fullsize Member
 
JKossarides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Rolling Hills Estates, CA
Posts: 9,061
iTrader: (1)
Bronco Info: 1986 Bronco XLT 4x4 -AOD -Warn Hubs, NEW stock 302EFI (2008) All MSD ignition, 9mm FMSR wires
Trust me I swapped from Tilt to Non-Tilt steering column several years ago and they DO have the upper ignition Actuator, it's the same for both steering columns. OEM part number is E9TZ 3E715 B. or look in the Help section, Doorman Mfg. $10.00.

The lower actuator fits in the metal column collar and mates up with the "brass drive gear", the key cylinder has an odd design on the end of it which fits into the drive grear, when you turn the key to RUN everything needs to rotate foward so the long ROD travels the correct distance to trigger the ignition switch lower down on the column for START. The ROD attaches to the upper Ignition Actuator at the top with a 3/32 x 3/8 roll pin which costs around $0.33 each at any decent harware store.

The difference between Tilt and Non-Tilt is basically the spring loaded knuckle, Tilt is larger that's all...both are a PITA job...lol lol



Good Luck ~
JKossarides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 12:38 PM   #8
Steve83
Registered User
 
Steve83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 36,301
iTrader: (101)
Bronco Info: '83 VIN & title on '93 frame/body w/'95 4.9L & EB paint
Non-tilt makes this a non-issue. The non-tilt actuator virtually never breaks because it's so simple, strong, & STRAIGHT. In the lower L pane of that diagram, it's 3E723, which connects to 11A599 (pushrod), which connects to 11572 (ig.sw.). 7B071 & 7361 go on the back of it to lock the steering wheel.

But the gear (3E717) STILL has to be timed to the actuator, so that's my next guess. I forget exactly what it takes, but 3E700 can be removed without "fully" dismantling the column - just pull the lock cylinder out and work that plate out. Take lots of pics so you can put it back together AND do a non-tilt photo writeup.
__________________
Walk softly & carry a BIG SIX ! ! !

. .
Steve83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 12:24 AM   #9
dolittle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Southern Il
Posts: 37
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: '90, EB, 5.8l, E40D, 3.55, 132k, PW, PL, 2G Alt, Monroe Reflex, Plastic Gastank, Cedar Bumpers
Steve83:

You said:

Quote:
Non-tilt makes this a non-issue. The non-tilt actuator virtually never breaks because it's so simple, strong, & STRAIGHT.
In the diagram you're referencing in would appear you're right. Unfortunately, that may not be the case for me. The diagram references an 80 to 86 auto column. Our is a '90, and, as I mentioned earlier, I haven't been able to find an exploded view for it yet. However, in the thread you referenced, which was originally for an '85 tilt model, there is a followup post which covers the repair of a broken actuator for a '90 non-tilt model. That actuator is identical to the one used in the tilt columns -- pn 3E715 in the 80-86, dorman 83280 for the replacement-- and is available widely, incl. at autozone.

One thing about the non-tilt writeup that confuses me is that the writer shortened the straight part of the actuator, which supposedly would prevent steering lockup if the actuator broke again. I'm wondering if doing that would also prevent my transmission from staying in park, or have any other side effects.

It'll probably be a couple more days til I get into town to get a puller, so I haven't been able to look at the mechanism itself yet. I don't think it's a timing problem because all the symptoms prior to failure would point to the actuator. What originally threw me was that the 80-86 diagram I was going off of didn't have the flag-shaped actuator in the non-tilt column; I guess this changed by 1990.

JKossarides:

Thanks for the info on the pin, but why did you have to get another one? Did it break or just vanish into the yonder?
dolittle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 02:28 AM   #10
Steve83
Registered User
 
Steve83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 36,301
iTrader: (101)
Bronco Info: '83 VIN & title on '93 frame/body w/'95 4.9L & EB paint
Quote:
Originally Posted by dolittle View Post
...the 80-86 diagram I was going off of didn't have the flag-shaped actuator in the non-tilt column; I guess this changed by 1990.
The column didn't change in trucks until '92. The reason I labelled that diagram '80-86 was because of the shapes of the steering wheel, the bracket/tray 3676, and the intermediate shaft & rag joint (3B676); all different for '87-91. But the rest of the column (& those diagrams) is identical from '80-91, which is why the caption said the later ones are similar. That's another example of why I discourage people from posting the large versions of my SMN pics - it's not from some protectiveness (although I do enjoy seeing the hit counters roll up ); it's because it prevents others from seeing the captions, which provide vital information like that. Since very few SMN users avail themselves of captions to the degree I do, it's usually not an issue. But in this case, it would be better to edit the linked thumbnail into your post above so that even you always have access to the caption. Just copying the pic &/or caption isn't as good since I often update pics & captions with new info. Like the list of changed parts I just typed - that's about to get added, but it probably won't be the last change...

In '78-79, the only significant difference was the shift indicator ON the column (retained in E-series until ~'90).
__________________
Walk softly & carry a BIG SIX ! ! !

. .
Steve83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 08:31 PM   #11
dolittle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Southern Il
Posts: 37
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: '90, EB, 5.8l, E40D, 3.55, 132k, PW, PL, 2G Alt, Monroe Reflex, Plastic Gastank, Cedar Bumpers
Steve:

I'm sorry about not including the text; I'll edit the post and add a thumbnail. I guess I'm just confused how kingjason -- author of the post I linked to -- managed to remove a broken actuator from his '90 bronco that, according to the diagram in question, shouldn't exist. Anyway, at this point I think I'm reserving judgement until I get the thing apart and see what's in there: that'll be definitive, at least for me. I'll be sure to take pictures, etc. Thanks for the help!
dolittle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 09:16 PM   #12
dolittle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Southern Il
Posts: 37
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: '90, EB, 5.8l, E40D, 3.55, 132k, PW, PL, 2G Alt, Monroe Reflex, Plastic Gastank, Cedar Bumpers
BTW, I've read there are a couple snap rings that need to be removed, one down in the key cylinder and one on the steering wheel shaft. What's a good snap ring tool to get, and what size? Particularly for the one in the key cylinder; wondering how I'd get one on there...
dolittle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 12:35 AM   #13
JKossarides
Fullsize Member
 
JKossarides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Rolling Hills Estates, CA
Posts: 9,061
iTrader: (1)
Bronco Info: 1986 Bronco XLT 4x4 -AOD -Warn Hubs, NEW stock 302EFI (2008) All MSD ignition, 9mm FMSR wires
Don't over think this one Brother, just get the snap ring tool with different/interchangeable tips in the kit, it's what I have and should be available in most auto parts stores or try Harbor Freight for pricing.

My Non-Tilt "upper ignition actuator" broke several years ago Steve and IIRC you did say that Non-Tilt steering wheels didn't have upper ignition actuators.....lol lol.....j/k....but no matter, it's the same OEM part for BOTH Tilt and Non -Tilt steering wheels unfortunately they're made of cheap pot metal whether it's from the Ford $tealership or the Doorman product in the Help section.

Good Luck ~
JKossarides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 03:22 AM   #14
Steve83
Registered User
 
Steve83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 36,301
iTrader: (101)
Bronco Info: '83 VIN & title on '93 frame/body w/'95 4.9L & EB paint
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKossarides View Post
...you did say that Non-Tilt steering wheels didn't have upper ignition actuators...
I don't get the joke - they don't have an "upper" actuator. They have "an" actuator. Since it's the only one, it's no more "upper" than it is "lower". If you have a link to that thread, I'll review what I wrote there...
__________________
Walk softly & carry a BIG SIX ! ! !

. .
Steve83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 01:11 PM   #15
JKossarides
Fullsize Member
 
JKossarides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Rolling Hills Estates, CA
Posts: 9,061
iTrader: (1)
Bronco Info: 1986 Bronco XLT 4x4 -AOD -Warn Hubs, NEW stock 302EFI (2008) All MSD ignition, 9mm FMSR wires
My Non-Tilt steering column has both the "upper and lower ignition actuators" the joke is, originally you told me a Non-Tilt column didn't have actuators and obviously they do because it took me nearly 10 hours the first time by myself to replace the upper one, a job I will never forget how to do.....lol lol...the hardest part I think was getting the spring loaded knuckle compressed to go back on...BIATCH...lol lol.

The actuator material for the Doorman and OEM Ford are exactly the same, I still have the original OEM broken pieces, cheap pot metal but the part is used for BOTH steering columns....check the OEM part number...I got mine from the local Ford Dealership at the time.

My upper ignition actuator is connected to the long ROD at the top with a 3/32 x 3/8 roll pin and slides in the track and the end of the ROD hooks into the ignition switch lower down on the column....my lower actuator mates with the brass drive gear inside to accomadate the key cylinder end, it has a specific design to it that fits into the center of the washer and drive gear.

My set up is the same as the one in bronco boys original ignition actuator post with one exception, the Non-Tilt spring loaded knuckle is smaller then the Tilt knuckle for obvious reasons, that's all.. ..even my directional turn signal arm is spring loaded and will move forward when pushed just like the Tilt....don't know why but there it is...

The Non-Tilt knuckle is adjustable but only when it's torn down then you can adjust it manually....

Good Luck ~
JKossarides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 02:13 AM   #16
Steve83
Registered User
 
Steve83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 36,301
iTrader: (101)
Bronco Info: '83 VIN & title on '93 frame/body w/'95 4.9L & EB paint
You're not making any sense. Only the '92-96 non-tilt column is a locked tilt column. If your '86 column has tilt pins & springs, it IS a tilt column. The mechanism may be stuck or the catch lever may be bent, but if the turn signal lever pushes forward, the column WILL tilt.
__________________
Walk softly & carry a BIG SIX ! ! !

. .
Steve83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:14 AM   #17
Big C 96
Registered User
 
Big C 96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: dayton Oh
Posts: 60
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: 96 xlt blue and white with white top 5.0 on 31 10.5 15
Have u checkedthe linkage
__________________
Ride her rope her powerstroke her ford
Big C 96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 01:54 PM   #18
JKossarides
Fullsize Member
 
JKossarides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Rolling Hills Estates, CA
Posts: 9,061
iTrader: (1)
Bronco Info: 1986 Bronco XLT 4x4 -AOD -Warn Hubs, NEW stock 302EFI (2008) All MSD ignition, 9mm FMSR wires
I'm not trying to be difficult here, no I pulled out the Tilt because it was very degraded and and the upper actuator was broken so I had a Non-Tilt steering column swapped in, I didn't do it myself.

It's that simple, the Non-Tilt knuckle is smaller and it won't move if I push the turn signal arm, what's not to understand, it is what it is, Non Tilt...

I inspected everything when I replaced the actuator and everything looked fine, nothing bent or damaged and I tried Tilting it out of curiosity when I replaced the upper ignition actuator a year later and the only way you can move it is when it's torn down and do it manually, there'a not enough parts inside the knuckle like a Tilt...that's it..

Good Luck ~
JKossarides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:07 PM   #19
dolittle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Southern Il
Posts: 37
iTrader: (0)
Bronco Info: '90, EB, 5.8l, E40D, 3.55, 132k, PW, PL, 2G Alt, Monroe Reflex, Plastic Gastank, Cedar Bumpers
So, after reading all this I'm even more confused...and left wondering if maybe I DO have a tilt. The reason I assumed I didn't was that the manual I have shows a separate tilt lever for the tilt column; I don't have the lever, so I figured I didn't have tilt. HOWEVER, I just realized the manual -- a pdf, the truck didn't come with one -- was for a '96, a detail I'd forgotten. Looking at my column now, I see a tell-tale notch that I can push the turn signal lever into.

But...it won't tilt.

And JKossarides says his column is non tilt...but has a notch?

Ugh...

Oh well; I'm getting the steering wheel puller and a snap ring tool today -- got the snap ring tool from orielly's; read the autozone one was crap -- so I'll find out soon enough...I hope...

Big C 96:

Visually inspected the linkage. It seems to be okay, so I'm assuming it's a piece of the broken actuator causing the problem.
dolittle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 07:04 PM   #20
Steve83
Registered User
 
Steve83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 36,301
iTrader: (101)
Bronco Info: '83 VIN & title on '93 frame/body w/'95 4.9L & EB paint
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKossarides View Post
...the Non-Tilt knuckle...
That's like saying "the F150 tailgate window motor". If it's an F150 t/g, it doesn't have a motor. If it HAS a knuckle, it's a tilt steering column.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dolittle View Post
...for a '96, a detail I'd forgotten.
You've ALSO forgotten to fill in your profile & signature. Click this & read the whole caption:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dolittle View Post
...I can push the turn signal lever into.
But...it won't tilt.
If the turn signal can be pushed, it IS a tilt column. Period. Like JK's, yours is probably stuck from not being used &/or bent from being forced while stuck, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a tilt column & has the 2 actuators. Look at the diagram in post #4; does your column have an external release pin for the lock cylinder? That's ONLY on tilt columns.
__________________
Walk softly & carry a BIG SIX ! ! !

. .
Steve83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  FSB Forums > Bronco Discussions > Noobie Bronco Tech Questions. Flame free zone!


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:43 PM.


2003-2009 FullSizeBronco.com. All rights reserved