modifying d50 ttb to be a solid axle - FSB Forums
Register Home Forums Active Topics Photo Gallery All Albums Mark Forums Read Auto EscrowInsurance FSB Store
FullsizeBronco.com is the premier Ford Bronco Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-02-2006, 08:22 PM   #1
bigblockbuggy
Registered User
 
bigblockbuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Midland, Mi
Posts: 895
iTrader: (0)
modifying d50 ttb parts to be used in a solid axle

First, I am new here, but I did wade through several pages of search results and didn't really find info on this. It was suggested that I ask about this here on my ongoing thread about D50 ttb in pirate4x4's ford section. My original thread over there is linked here clicky if you want to read the background on this. Anyhow, below is clip from my thread over there. apparantly someone has made some progress on a similar idea, and the guys on pirates said I could find more info here. Anyone have any pro's or cons or why it can't or wont work. Any feedback is appreciated. See below for a snip from my thread.

[snip] A little more info I have found today, the D50 TTB uses spicer 1350 ujoints with full circle external clips, where as a standard D60 joint is spicer 1480 with internal c clips. The body size is identicle between the two joints, but the spicer 1480 has 1.375 journals, and the 1350 joint has 1.18 journals. Makes the 1350 a bit weaker, but still a pretty tough joint. The main thing I find of interest, is that there is room in the knuckles for the spicer 1480. I am really tempted to see what it would cost for a machine shop to make me some square to round tube adapters, cut off the D50 innter knuckles with a few inches of the square tube, weld adapters in and build a front D60 with them. I have a plethora of rear D60's around, It might be a uber cheap way to come up with a front D60. What do you think, anyone tried this? There are shit loads of the D50 TTB stuff in the junkyards, and it is considered basically worthless, what do you think? [end snip]

Later,
jason

Last edited by bigblockbuggy; 10-03-2006 at 10:54 AM. Reason: change title
bigblockbuggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-02-2006, 09:05 PM   #2
94_chickentaco
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
It's not "common" around here for FSB'rs to try to build a straight D-50 from ground up. I think we have seen TTB oddities such as D44 TTB rears for sand racers and TTB basketball hoops and TTB grinder stands, etc.

As far as i can remember i do not recollect anyone grafting square tube to a D50 TTB chunk and welding on knuckles to make a straight axle.

Sounds interesting enough, wont it end up costing more time and money than say a ball joint 60?

Is this intended for crawling or mudding?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2006, 09:20 PM   #3
bigblockbuggy
Registered User
 
bigblockbuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Midland, Mi
Posts: 895
iTrader: (0)
It was another guy trying to build a straight D50 out of the ttb center chunk. I am thinking just useing the knuckles and a retubed rear D60. My thoughts are haveing a sqaure to round adapter machined to put the TTB knucks on a regular D60 tube. It appears accoring to the measurements of my '79 D60 shaft yokes, and the neapco measurements of the 1350 joint that the cross is approximately the same width, this leads me to believe that the D60 1480 steering joints will fit in the TTB knucks. If it works, then I would be out the cost of Tube to retube a rear d60, machine work for inner axle seals, and machine work for the square to round knuckle adapters. I can get the machine work done for a fairly reasonable cost (I have machinests in the family:) ) and if it all comes together, i will try it with my stock spare D60 shafts. If it works right, I will just get alloy shafts for my buggy, and keep the spare stockers in the hybrid axle.

As for building a solid D50 out of a center chunk, I wouldn't think it would be incredibly difficult, but kind of pointless from a strength standpoint, you may as well run the D50 TTB.

This is going in a bronco I will be building this winter. If the hybrid deal looks like a no go, I will just swap the D50 TTB into the bronc. It is hopefully going to be a daily driver, tow rig, and light trail rig. If you look at the introduction thread where I introduced myself, you will see why I am building yet another rig...

Thanks for the response so far, I will continue my search, but let me know any input you may have

Thanks,
Jason
bigblockbuggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2006, 09:58 PM   #4
94_chickentaco
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Hopefully others will chime in with a bit more info,

welcome to FSB and im interested to see how this would turn out.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 02:19 AM   #5
Mr.N
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 236
iTrader: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigblockbuggy View Post
There are shit loads of the D50 TTB stuff in the junkyards, and it is considered basically worthless, what do you think?
Just to confrim you know teh differance between a Dana 44 and Dana 50 under an F250?

Also there are differances between Dana 50 TTB's so becarefull what parts you use...

I've seen Pictures of Dana 44's TTB's welded up, never seen a good one...
Not a bad idea to weld the knuckles on tube, but sure would be hard to get them plum.
__________________
My notes on Dana 44 and other Dana axles -> http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/web_rs44.html
Mr.N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 09:42 AM   #6
bigblockbuggy
Registered User
 
bigblockbuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Midland, Mi
Posts: 895
iTrader: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.N View Post
Just to confrim you know teh differance between a Dana 44 and Dana 50 under an F250?

Also there are differances between Dana 50 TTB's so becarefull what parts you use...

I've seen Pictures of Dana 44's TTB's welded up, never seen a good one...
Not a bad idea to weld the knuckles on tube, but sure would be hard to get them plum.
Yes, i do know the difference between D44 and D50, the donor truck I have is defenitely the D50, it has 1 ton hubs, and the truck is an F350, door tag says 4500lb front axle. There are a few yards near me that have tons of fords, I was meerly making the suggestion that if this worked for me, it may be a cost effective way for others to build a d60. The D50 TTB is not nearly as available in the yards as a D44ttb, but they are still out there, and should be fairly cheap.

I was not aware that there are differences among the D50 TTB's, can you elaborate, or point me in the direction of more info?

I would be interested in pictures of the D44 ttb welded up if you can dig them up, I just want to see what part of the wheel people have already invented. As for getting the knucles plum, I would think with a properly thought out jig, they would come out pretty well.

Keep the info comming!

Thanks,
Jason
bigblockbuggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 09:49 AM   #7
ToddACimer
Engineer
 
ToddACimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Oshkosh, Wi
Posts: 12,826
iTrader: (19)
Bronco Info: 11 F150 CC 4x4
You can find a solid D44 for $100 almost anywhere, I just don't see how this could be a reasonable substitute
__________________
Recipient of multiple driving awards from State and Local officials.
ToddACimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 10:52 AM   #8
bigblockbuggy
Registered User
 
bigblockbuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Midland, Mi
Posts: 895
iTrader: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddACimer View Post
You can find a solid D44 for $100 almost anywhere, I just don't see how this could be a reasonable substitute
No offense, but did you read what I am trying to do, not just the title of the thread. I do not want to build a solid D50, I want to use the TTB D50 knucks to build a D60 out of a rear. It will use no D50 parts except the knucks when I am done. It will essensialy be a BJ D60 in the end.
bigblockbuggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 12:30 PM   #9
ToddACimer
Engineer
 
ToddACimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Oshkosh, Wi
Posts: 12,826
iTrader: (19)
Bronco Info: 11 F150 CC 4x4
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigblockbuggy View Post
No offense, but did you read what I am trying to do, not just the title of the thread. I do not want to build a solid D50, I want to use the TTB D50 knucks to build a D60 out of a rear. It will use no D50 parts except the knucks when I am done. It will essensialy be a BJ D60 in the end.
I read it, I can't understand why you'd do that.
__________________
Recipient of multiple driving awards from State and Local officials.
ToddACimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 01:28 PM   #10
bigblockbuggy
Registered User
 
bigblockbuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Midland, Mi
Posts: 895
iTrader: (0)
Because if it works, it will be an somewhat inexpensive way to get a d60. A used D60 for $800-1200 dollars just insn't worth it to me. I am always on the lookiut for 1 tons to be parted out, but they are getting somewhat rare. All of the rock crawler guys are buying up the d60's left and right to resell. What should cost no more than $300-$500 more than a D44 has went through the roof, just due to demand. To add to it, none of the yards within 50 miles of me have any '70's stuff for a solid d44. Sure they are for sale on the boards for cheap prices every now and again, but why not use what I have if I can make it work. I understand that it will be a ton of work, but what have I got better to do through the winter? If I can put a 60 together for $300 (not counting the usual rebuild stuff you'd have to do on any junk yard axle anyhow) why not try? If it works, and is reasonable inexpensive, I guarantee other people will do it.

I used to run a front locked HP 44 in my CJ, I broke shafts nearly everytime out. How can you run a d44 in a truck that probably weighs 2k lbs more and make it survive w/o sinking $1000 in aftermarket shafts and joints? I realize people do it, but they don't last for me... It must be driving style. Anyhow, the bronco I am building is getting a built 460. I just dont feel comfortable with a d44, even with 33"-35" tire size and lots of horsepower.

later,
Jason
bigblockbuggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 01:44 PM   #11
seemoremud
Registered User
 
seemoremud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Usually wherever the power is out
Posts: 1,077
iTrader: (5)
Bronco Info: '91 Ext. cab p/u, no bed, D60s, 37s, lots of sheetmetal damage
Well, I don't really have any great info to contriubute, sorry, but I do plan on watching this thread hoping for some updates on your progress.
I believe that if research is done, material is gathered and plans are made correctly, anything can be built, and built very well. If you can find a cost effective way to build an axle just as strong as they ones selling for 1000+ dollars, why not try it? Like you said, what else is there to do during the winter? Im all for it

Wish I had something good to contribute though.... Good luck, and post pics
__________________
When you have time, you have no money - When you have money, you have no time
seemoremud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 02:33 PM   #12
Swat
Fullsize Member
 
Swat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 3,810
iTrader: (7)
Bronco Info: 1993 F150 Flare Side
I have seen narrowing jigs to narrow the Ford 9"for drag racers. Nothing more than a long strait rod and aluminium pucks to bolt in to the drop out with the rod to replace the bearings and keep it strait. Then you have to get caster and camber close but would have some adjustment at the ball joints.

What is the spline count and diameter on the outer axles and would they be that much stronger than D44 outers??? Is the spindle large enough to put in a 35 spline outer to go with the 1480 joint you list as a possibility???
Swat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 02:45 PM   #13
bigblockbuggy
Registered User
 
bigblockbuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Midland, Mi
Posts: 895
iTrader: (0)
I have seen the solid rod approach as well for determining if you get a houseing and tubes straight or not. It will almost defenitely be needed to get this right.

As for the spindles, hubs and whatnot, my research says the D50 stuff is identicle to stock D60 outers. I have not yet had it apart and in my hands to verify for sure. Stock D60 is 1.25 diameter outer shaft, 30 spline. I believe that stock D44 is 1.125, 19 spline. Updraged 35 spline outers should not be a problem either, as they fit the stock d60 outers. Inner shafts would be 1 3/16ths (at the neck down) and 35 spline. The dana 60 stubs may be a bit too long, as on a 78-79 hp60 the caliper brackets are between the knuckle and spindle, and on the TTB 50 knucks, the caliper brackets are cast in, I believe the difference will be about 1/4 to 3/8th inch though, so I should be able to cut down my stock d60 stubs and regroove them for snap ring and be all set.

I hope to be parting out the f350 that the D50 is comming out of tonight, and will have more measurements at my fingertips I will defenitly post pictures as the project progresses, both of the bronco and the front axle project.

Later,
Jason
bigblockbuggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 04:01 PM   #14
Swat
Fullsize Member
 
Swat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 3,810
iTrader: (7)
Bronco Info: 1993 F150 Flare Side
I think your right about the outers! Interesting project! I'd look into the upgrade to 1480 joints and 1 ton shafts. If not now, an upgrade later. In my research, the stock D60 outers are not much stronger than 44's and they say when they grenade they can take out the spindle, hub, and locks . Good Luck!
Swat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 04:08 PM   #15
bigblockbuggy
Registered User
 
bigblockbuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Midland, Mi
Posts: 895
iTrader: (0)
When completed it will run stock '79 hp D60 shafts, the steering joints are already 1480 series joints. The stubs however are upgradeable to 35 spline. I have not yet broken a stock shaft in my buggy with 42's and a f.i. 460, so they must be a bit stonger :)

Later,
Jason
bigblockbuggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2006, 12:28 AM   #16
Mr.N
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 236
iTrader: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigblockbuggy View Post
I was not aware that there are differences among the D50 TTB's, can you elaborate, or point me in the direction of more info?

IAs for the spindles, hubs and whatnot, my research says the D50 stuff is identicle to stock D60 outers. I have not yet had it apart and in my hands to verify for sure.
I've had a few 44's apart, one Dana TTB 50 and a couple Dana 60's.
Most my info I use parts numbers from Spicer, and the 50s changed axle shaft part numbers and some other small stuff.
Start here and feel free to ask Q's -> http://www2.dana.com/pdf/X510-9-3-FORD-A.PDF

By the way your on the right track, I've had the same idea but with a Dana 70 for larger tubes...
Also the Stock 50 shaft are not bad, I really like the externial snapring on them. Just like the old Highboy drum axles, too bad I lost my pic...
__________________
My notes on Dana 44 and other Dana axles -> http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/web_rs44.html
Mr.N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2006, 06:59 PM   #17
78BroncBuster
Registered User
 
78BroncBuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mid Cal
Posts: 311
iTrader: (2)
Bronco Info: 1978 Bronco Ranger, 351M, C6, NP205, D44/9" 3.50 gears-open diffs, 6" lift, 35x15-15 TSL's.
Thats a good idea if it works.
78BroncBuster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2006, 07:43 PM   #18
bigblockbuggy
Registered User
 
bigblockbuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Midland, Mi
Posts: 895
iTrader: (0)
I didn't get my donor truck parted out last night, as the loader had a flat tire when I went to tear into it. After parting out vehichles with a loader, it is hard to go back to an engine hoist, 8 friends and a lot of beer method... Anyhow, I did get some good measurements of stuff today, and it all looks very promising. I cannot wait to get the SOB apart and back to my shop so I can start working on this. The great thing is, the truck I bought for a parts rig has a shelled D60 rear, so I am going to hack that one up since it is fubar already. I am really looking forward to trying this out. I will keep you guys posted. It can be up to three weeks between my days off work though, so bare with me if I dissapear for a while. I am deffenitely going to find out if this can be done or not, and for a reasonable price.

Later,
Jason
bigblockbuggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2006, 11:29 PM   #19
Mr.N
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 236
iTrader: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigblockbuggy View Post
Anyhow, I did get some good measurements of stuff today, and it all looks very promising. n
been awhile since I've seen a 50, Are you sure you want a Dana 60 and not a large tube?
__________________
My notes on Dana 44 and other Dana axles -> http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/web_rs44.html
Mr.N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2006, 12:04 AM   #20
bigblockbuggy
Registered User
 
bigblockbuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Midland, Mi
Posts: 895
iTrader: (0)
I am not sure I understand the question? Do you mean use a donor rear that has a larger diameter tube stock, like a d70 or 14blt? I am not really familiar with any of the D70 stuff, but the way it looks with the d50 knuckles, is I may be able to do it w/o any sort of adapter, just by boxing the square tube down to the round, the trick there would be getting everything plumb and square as you mentioned before, but I think it can be done. If a D70 tube is much larger diameter than a d60, it may not fit width wise into the d50 square tubing. It would probably have to be milled flat where the square tube would sleeve it. I am not sure that it would be worth the additional ring gear/pumpkin size just for the gear strength since I would still use d60 shafts. If I missunderstood, tell me what you are thinking.

Thanks,
Jason
bigblockbuggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  FSB Forums > Bronco Discussions > Solid Axle Swaps


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:11 AM.


2003-2009 FullSizeBronco.com. All rights reserved