Catastrophic failure - Page 6 - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #101 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 03:42 PM
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Are those the piston rings all stretched out? If so, they must have been seriously overheated for them to stretch like that without breaking. Pretty impressive grenade job, that took a little time and possibly some rpm's too.

You going to pull the mains and the rod?

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post #102 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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Are those the piston rings all stretched out? If so, they must have been seriously overheated for them to stretch like that without breaking. Pretty impressive grenade job, that took a little time and possibly some rpm's too.

You going to pull the mains and the rod?
Yes, they are rings from the piston, however I'm not sure which ones just yet. There's a third ring chopped in pieces that I believe is actually a spacer for the oil ring. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, it doesn't look like any of the other piston rings. I suppose those two rings could be oil rings and they were sandwiched around that spacer that's chopped up.

I already pulled the oil pump, main caps, rod caps, and the crank. Easier said than done, again due to the fact that I could not easily rotate things. After a few minutes of frustration and trying to be super delicate I just said eff it, it's dead and if I hurt it more who cares, then I approached things a little more aggressively.

I'm optimistic the crank can be saved as all the rods were intact as well as the main caps, but that depends on how important the counter weights are as far as having nicks and scraps on them. The bearings look decent, not perfect, but not gouged or anything. I'm not an engine builder at all, but I have taken apart this very 460 once before when it spun a bearing or two and those bearings literally just fell to pieces when I took the crank out, they didn't do that this time. Either what I see is normal wear or they got oil starved just long enough to cause some wear but not destroy the bearings or weld them from heat.

I'll try to post the couple of pics I took before I go to work tonight. I'm done for the day and may be done with the engine tear down altogether. I might remove the pistons to keep the rods, but I'm mostly interested in the crank at this point. I don't even really want to bother with the gear drive as I'm never going that route again. I guess we'll see how I feel about it tomorrow.


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post #103 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 05:03 PM
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From the picture, they look like compression rings. The one that looks like a spacer should be your oil ring.


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post #104 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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I went back out to clean up my tools and snapped a few more pics. I guess I didn't really look close enough the first time. Some of the bearings are really bad, mostly the mains. There doesn't appear to be mirrored damage on the crank journals, but there is some there. I'm going to drop it off at the machine shop tomorrow morning and have them be the judge. I'm just going to assume it's toast at this point pending their review.


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post #105 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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I'm once again having trouble getting pics loaded to imgur. I'll leave you with the one teaser I have until I can get the others done.





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post #106 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 06:38 PM
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Yeah, it's an old school thing.

'sides, it's just an old wore out 460ci.
there is a million of em' laying around.


https://www.hotrod.com/articles/how-...-engine-block/


Budgeting vs Value,, now their's a horse of a Different color.

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post #107 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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I think I might keep one of these as a souvenir.





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post #108 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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Crank counter weights chewed up a bit.






Rear main crank journal has very light grooves on it on the bottom. I can barely feel them with my finger nail, but they are there.






Rear main bearing on the block.






One of the rod journals.






Main and rod caps laid out. It was starting to rain a little. Whoopty doo.






Front main cap and bearing.






Rear main cap and bearing.






This is how most of the rod bearings looked.






Another shot inside the block at cylinders 4 and 8 with the crank removed.






I haven't looked over the crank very thoroughly, but from what I've seen all the journals on the crank don't reflect the damage on all the bearings. Again, I may pop out all the pistons in order to keep the rods, but I'm not sure why I would want to. I'm tempted to just take anything that may be good and drop it off at the machine shop and see if they want it all as cores. As a side note, I'll give the ARP rod bolts a 10/10 for holding strong through all that mayhem.


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post #109 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 01:05 AM
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in the immortal words of ed gators,"you already knew!"

if it ain't one thing it's another!
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post #110 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
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It's gonna be a busy week for me. I'll be working 12's every day until Monday. I'm gonna try to tear down my other 460 during the week though and see if I can manage to get the thing out of my back room and onto the flatbed as well. I'm gonna hold off on taking any of the pieces of the 460 I just tore down to the machine shop until I finish getting this one apart, so I can take it all there at the same time. I'm just gonna slide it all across the counter and be like "what can I make with all of this?".
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post #111 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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I'll attempt to get up to speed on what I've done to the 460 in my back room. It's stripped a little further than I have pics of, but I'll share what I have handy.

I bought this one like a year and a half ago and started stripping it down a couple months after I got it. I noticed it was going to need some machine work, then things got piled up around it and the tear down quickly stopped. The original plan was to take the heads off my bad 460, had they been good (I was wishful) and put them on this short block and try to frankenstein a decent 460 out of the whole thing. That is obviously not happening. This 460 comes from Malta, Idaho, which is way out in bfe from where I live and apparently I like to source stuff that is located way out of the way. It's from a mid 80's truck and has a rear sump pan, which would be perfect for a Bronco .








I started with removing the carb, carb spacer, hei distributor, and then the intake. I think whoever installed the carb spacer/adapter is going to rtv hell, that was not easy to remove. I only wanted to separate the spacer from the iron intake, because I figured it may come in handy someday with it being spreadbore to squarebore, never know.








Boy, do I know how to pick 'em. I think what happened is this guy had the engine pulled and sitting outside for a while and some moisture seeped past the valve cover gaskets, went down the holes for the pushrods and into the lifter valley. That's what it looked like anyway, the rust/oil combo looked very fresh and recent. What the hell ever.







I removed the air tube from the heads, removed what was left of the exhaust from the manifolds with the help of my floor jack handle, removed the manifolds, and then popped off one of the heads. I don't have any pics of the cylinders, but there was some taper to the cylinder walls. Everything is currently covered with a plastic bag. I'll have to get some recent pics and then continue on my way. We'll see if anything is good and if I can make anything out of all my parts.








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post #112 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 06:55 AM
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Apparently he didn't know that carburetor base gaskets go on dry.

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I think what happened is this guy had the engine pulled and sitting outside for a while and some moisture seeped past the valve cover gaskets, went down the holes for the pushrods and into the lifter valley. That's what it looked like anyway, the rust/oil combo looked very fresh and recent. What the hell ever.

I don't think so, you'd have moisture and rust under the valve covers, on the head/valve train, on the push rods as well as in the oil.
Are you sure it's rust, because it looks funky? Loosen the drain plug without moving the motor and see if any water drips out as it should be settled to the bottom of the pan.
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post #113 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 07:04 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cobrajoe View Post
Apparently he didn't know that carburetor base gaskets go on dry.



I don't think so, you'd have moisture and rust under the valve covers, on the head/valve train, on the push rods as well as in the oil.
Are you sure it's rust, because it looks funky? Loosen the drain plug without moving the motor and see if any water drips out as it should be settled to the bottom of the pan.
It might be Cholula.


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post #114 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 07:23 AM Thread Starter
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I can't remember everything, as I got it to that point over a year ago, but I do recall a similar looking substance under the covers, but not nearly in that amount. I'm sure you'd know more about it than I would. I was trying to make sense of it as I was stripping it down. The covers had rubber gaskets that seemed pretty fresh and were very easy to remove once unbolted. We'll find out more once I continue taking it apart. With my luck cylinder 8 will look like my other 460. I once heard the phrase "caveat emptor" and I think it applies here.


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post #115 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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While I'm waiting to receive my call from the driveline shop once they open, I went in the back room and uncovered the 460 a little and took some pics. I'm not ready to work on it just yet as I'll have to move stuff around yet again in order to due so. Getting that hoist out was a beotch.

Keep in mind that this thing has been sitting in my possession since something like march of last year and for the last year or so it's been in my back room which isn't temp controlled. It gets super hot with the green house effect and super cold in the winter, so that has affected some of this stuff once it was cracked open.

I'm assuming everything is OE Ford stuff as the Ford oval is all over the place, even on the valves. The guy said it was running before it was pulled, that he bought it from his buddy, and that he changed his plans for things once his gf got pregnant (I know all sellers say that), but based on all the project vehicles he had at his property I don't really doubt that claim. He definitely had something in common with me with all the vehicles. It was attached to a C6 like my engine and tranny were in my truck's bed, but I only wanted the engine, so I was able to coax him into just selling the engine.

When I say I think he left it outside and some moisture got in, I mean I think he let it sit covered in snow for a while as winter was ending and spring was starting when I went to get it. That is my assumption after the fact. I didn't buy it thinking or knowing that's what happened. The corrosion has gotten a bit worse since the engine has sat, the one cylinder that has turned white was not white when I cracked all of this open. On to the pics.




Rear of driver side head. Notice how the top of the mating surface for the valve cover has corrosion and that the rust on the head is isolated to the top half near the bores for the pushrods. Possibly from snow sitting around the carb... I'm guessing.






Front of driver side head.






The top is the front of the head and the bottom is the rear of the head.






Newer corrosion on cylinder 8 (I'm not a fan of cylinder's named 8)






Cylinders 7 & 8 with newer corrosion in 8.







Cylinders 5 & 6.






Close up of cylinder 5, I don't know why .




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post #116 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 06:08 AM
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post #117 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 06:21 AM Thread Starter
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Nuke nuke nuke nuke of earl. Nuke nuke nuke of earl.
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post #118 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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Plans changed yet again. I'm not sure when I'll get back to stripping down the "good" 460. I did manage to drop off the crank from the dead 460 at the machine shop today and we'll find out if it's any good. Hopefully sometime soon I'll be able to get the rest of what I have over to that shop and they can tell me where I stand as far as the condition of all my parts.

I'm not sure what I'm doing anymore, but I'm pretty sure if any 460 is made out of what I have that it'll eventually go into the Bronco and not my truck. I've kinda narrowed my options down on my truck and a 460 didn't make the list.


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post #119 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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Crank is good. I was told it's straight and it'll need to be ground down or polished or whatever method it is they use to turn it down .010 on all the journals. I asked about the counterweights and was told that the rotating assembly would just need to be rebalanced.

So with that bit of good news I'm actually going to take in a lot of stuff I'm assuming is bad, so I can get told some more good news. Who knows, maybe I can just replace the individual parts that are bad and have a somewhat identical engine remade for cheap. I'm not sure of the likelihood that the other 7 pistons are still usable, but I'm gonna find out. I'm able to buy them individually rather than in a set of 8, so that'd be pretty neat if it can be done.


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post #120 of 152 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 11:08 PM
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My best Inter Web guess, cylinders will need to be bored or possibly 1 or 2 sleeved(providing no major internal damage), resulting in 8 shiny, new pistons to match your shiny, new camshaft and rods.
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